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Geek Culture / Shoot 'Em Up Kit

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BatVink
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Posted: 4th Mar 2012 20:44
Old_school, TGC sell everything from 3D GameMaker and My Doodle Game through to AppGameKit, DBP and DarkGDK. Shoot 'Em Up kit has it's own place in the range of products that isn't yet catered for.

jmtmew
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Posted: 4th Mar 2012 21:58
Just tried the demo out, it's awesome! Never came across any bugs or whatnot, almost a sure purchase, love it

Tall John
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Posted: 4th Mar 2012 22:04
Hi jmtmew. Thanks for trying out the demo and I'm really pleased that you like it.
Jeku
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 07:33
Quote: "or is this "bug free"? "


There's almost no such thing as a completely bug free program. Even Visual Studio releases regular security fixes!


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
World Class Multimedia
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 15:14 Edited at: 5th Mar 2012 15:24
Hi. This program excites me - inclusion of a stand alone creation utility is paramount, as I want to sell my creations to clients or the public.

How does it handle music/sound - are they drag and drop and can you put in as many as you want or is there a theoretical limit?

Will the pro version be hundreds more or just a bit more?

What is the best model/animation tools to use with your software (assuming the cheaper ones instead of Maya, 3D Studio, etc - and NOT Blender) for pain free importation and use?

I really did want to create FPS / 3rd Person shooters with this because of its open ended architecture (importing your own models, adding particles, using physx, etc), so how hard will it be to create my own bad guy AI? Would it be possible for your company to create more AI routines for 1st/3rd person shooters or whole templates that could be downloaded/purchased and used?

I assume terrain handling is not covered and must be imported as meshes? I would love to see this software able to handle/sculpt mesh terrain in software. Would that be a possible pro addition?

Mike

YOU DREAM IT - WE CREATE IT!
www.world-class-multimedia.com
For world-class virtual instruments - www.supersynths.com
World Class Multimedia
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 15:20 Edited at: 5th Mar 2012 15:23
If I may be so bold, you MUST put up better video demos showing off your software - and not just the ease of use. I may be wrong, but this crowd does not exactly want a two button solution game, but the ability to make your own 3D space shooters, 1st or 3rd person games and have all the features your program suggests would be a serious boon to them all, myself included.

However, we need to see what this baby can do. Put it through its paces (yes, I know there is a demo, but sometimes people decide based on the visuals first). My impression so far is that this is for babies - based on the youtube videos. Based on the specs, this is a bad boy program just dying to be unleashed. So, which one is it - a baby cub or a Lion waiting to pounce?

I would be more than happy to help create a sizzling video demo of your software. Contact me at mike at world-class-multimedia dot com if you are interested.

Mike

YOU DREAM IT - WE CREATE IT!
www.world-class-multimedia.com
For world-class virtual instruments - www.supersynths.com
nnndohh
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 16:46
well, i bought this software based on the screenshots, couldnt find a demo. but i really hope this will be extended in the future
so we are not tied to only asteroids or galaga like shooters.

futhermore, there is a problem with the camera wen i insert it and want to edit its properties.
cause in the properties you see what to expect to see from that camera, but its view only react on the default viewport in he editor and not the camera what i inserted
Van B
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 16:54
Packages like this always rely on the userbase to look their best... and steer the package towards more complex features. User friendliness, ease of use, those are not weaknesses and should never be considered as such. If the package is easier to use, then that balances the difficulty involved in making good media. If anything, a package like this should encourage people to learn modelling, so they can customise their game properly, or so they can achieve the game that they have intended.

I would prefer to see a complex shooter than something that only took a minute to create - because a game that took a minute to create is not something I'd be proud of, feel ownership of, or would want to share with people. Now a package that takes 2 weeks to make a good shooter, that's a different flavour of horse entirely.

Doodle Game suffers a similar problem to this, lets call it ''Falling between the gap between users common sense and reality''. Someone makes a package to let other people make games, maybe the creator of that package started out as a youngster with SEUCK in the 80's, or 3DCK in the 90's, or GameMaker in the naughties. Common sense dictates that an end user should be happy enough making their game...but they won't be. Most users will want the package to cover much more than it does. In fact, everytime I consider making a game creation package, I procrastinate over all the things people will demand, and I give up. You have a package for $50, and people will expect this one package to let them model ships and scenery, texture, edit sound effects, create music, allow full custom coding, custom AI, and basically do everything that the end user can't do for themselves. And that's why these packages always fall into the gap, because there are too many potential users aren't prepared to compromise or learn. One similarity is the final game distribution, both Tall Guy and TGC have left out game distrobution, and I think a lot of people can't understand why. Well it's a vital necessity for me, I was distributing my own SEUCK games on the C64, now we have the internet there is no reason why I wouldn't expect an option for distribution. I'd say SEUK was the bigger villain though, as My Doodle Game might not necesserily be expected to make standalone games. We have the youtube generation these days - people who check youtube for absolutely everything, and anything they can't find on youtube instantly sucks. People will look for SEUK videos, and when they find a game made in SEUK that they want to play, poor old early adopters will be left in the dark - talking about a game nobody else can really play. Wouldn't it be awesome to build your shooter, upload it somewhere, then link to it in youtube videos, or on facebook, or twitter. People want to make their OWN game, not a game that they can only share with people who also like to make their own games - people want to share their game with friends at school, their family, university. Seriously, I would never have bothered with SEUCK if I couldn't record the games to tape and give them to people to play... without the release point, there is no real buzz - finishing a game should go with a bang, not a week or so of convincing people to buy your package so they can try their game.

With these packages, people have to make themselves heard, and dare I say it - they have to adopt the package and push it to it's limits. For example, the StarWraith series of games actually fostered some additions to DBClassic, features that were needed to achieve some things in StarWraith warranted an update to the core language. But it works both ways, because it's a good advert for DBClassic, when people can't believe the game is written in it.

It's a lot easier to justify spending time adding features if you know that they will definately be used - even if that's just 1 instance. If someone is asking for more features before they even try the package, then the chances are they'll never use the features that are 'so important'.

What would be ideal I think, is if someone took on a big project with SEUK, like a 3D remake of R-Type, or my old favorite Salamander. Something with some meat to it, high visual and sound quality etc. Perhaps what is really required is a competition... get people making a game, in an engine that has it's priorities in the game design... perhaps even release a time limited version for the competition (ends on the competition deadline). I think it would be very valuable to get some good modellers on board, making or remaking a shooter, and showing off their talents and vicariously showing off your game engine. IMO it's the best way to promote a product within a community like this one - we aren't looking for a product to be creative with, we are looking for products to be productive with.

Long, rambling post I know, I doubt anyone will read it except for maybe Tall John... so bullet points!

* Game distribution is vital, make a runtime that can be packaged with games, or a game builder, but anyway that is a key feature.

* Consider having a competition, to envigorate youtube with good videos of more complex game development.

* Make a bigger game, something more like the game the end user will want to make - think Super Stardust HD, not space invaders.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Tall John
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 17:25
Hi World Class Multimedia. Thanks for your interest in the Shoot 'Em Up Kit.

You can add as many sounds and models as you like. The issue is performance, of course, but we've left it to to user to decide whether they are going to create a complex scene for a high-spec machine or a simple scene for a wider audience.

The Pro version will only be a bit more. We've not set a price yet but it's not going to be a huge price-jump.

We've tested 3D Studio Max, Maya, XSI Mod, Milkshape and - we must admit - Blender. The best one is purely down to personal choice.

The Behaviour editor can be used to script AI to some extent, but if you're after pathfinding, etc, then that will come in a future version or plug-in. I love AI programming and had the joy of being the Senior AI programmer on Ubisoft's Rainbow Six Vegas, so I'd love to get some juicy AI in there.

Sorry, Terrain handling isn't covered and it would have to be a mesh. But if this is something the community wants then I'll certainly include it in a future release or add-on.

Thanks for the recommendation of getting some better videos onto YouTube - I appreciate the value in doing this. All the tutorials so far have focused on its ease of use rather than the power beneath. And thanks also for your offer of help. I shall be in touch.
Tall John
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 17:36
Hi nnndohh. The Shoot 'Em Up Kit is an on-going project and we're in the process of making lots of videos showing off the different features of the Shoot 'Em Up Kit, which can be used to make increasingly complex games.

Thanks for raising the issue about the camera. I'll take a look and get it sorted.
Tall John
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 17:49
Hi Van B. Yes, I read your post. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I completely agree about game distribution. As I mentioned in earlier posts the original intention was to have a community similar to Little Big Planet, but it was obvious within minutes that TGC community didn't want this and so we're preparing a free upgrade.

We do have plans for several competitions, and more details will be announced in due course.

World Class Multimedia has also been suggesting a great looking game to inspire people and show what is possible. Great advice indeed.
World Class Multimedia
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 18:22 Edited at: 5th Mar 2012 18:28
I downloaded the demo, which took an enormous amount of time, by the way - I mean, two hours.

I installed it - did not ask me if I wanted an icon on the desktop (make sure you include that).

It did not try to install direct x or physx (I have both - and a Nvidia GeForce 420 with Physx - and I have installed physx drivers many times before).

I tried to run it - told me "The program cannot start because PhysxLoader.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem".

Now what.

[EDIT] - uninstalled. Installed using "Run as Administrator" - no luck. Same message. My UAC was turned off long ago.

Re-downloading, but I don't think it will help - the install file was not corrupt (and was correct at 173MB) - it simply installed the program, but did not try to install direct x or physx.

Mike

YOU DREAM IT - WE CREATE IT!
www.world-class-multimedia.com
For world-class virtual instruments - www.supersynths.com
Tall John
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 18:43
Hi Mike. I'm sorry you are experiencing problems with the demo. You shouldn't have to run as administrator, and PhysX and DirectX should have been installed silently as prerequisites by the installer.

If you continue to have problems then use the contact form at tallstudios.com and we can sort it out.
Nickydude
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 19:02
Just a heads-up guys to say this thread won't be stickied forever so it might be worth while heading over to the Tall Studios website [http://www.tallstudios.com/products/shoot-em-up-kit] and joining the forum there.

I've just joined as I plan on getting this awesome program so you'll know you're in good company.

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 5th Mar 2012 23:29
I haven't even thought about game design in a couple years, this may just change my mind. Looks great!!!

World Class Multimedia
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 00:00
I have started asking questions over at the other forum, so I will not post them here.

I did get the demo working and even posted a quickie impression of the program on their forum.

Mike

YOU DREAM IT - WE CREATE IT!
www.world-class-multimedia.com
For world-class virtual instruments - www.supersynths.com
0Alemar0
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 00:25
Tall John
The program looks great.I downloaded and try and I think there is a great potential here, in my production point of view.
I spend some time trying to find a way to setup my camera .After this I had fun...
One thing I was search and not find, excuse me if I'm wrong:
Is there a way to have a model with many different animations? Is There a animation editor for entities, like in sprite editor? If yes, how can assign different animations to input controls?

Alemar
Tall John
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 12:05
Hi Alemar. Thanks for trying out the demo. In case you missed it, I've answered your question on the Tall Studios forum.
Lance
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 22:40 Edited at: 6th Mar 2012 23:01
Is there a demo version that I can try before I buy ?

Thanks
Lance

Sorry ,I found the demo on their web site ....
GasiusGames
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 19:00
So, I bought the kit, and am some what confused.
1. Where is the erver that your game uploads to?
2. How do you see what other developers are doing?
3. Is it my understanding, that you cannot actual build a game and sell it?
4. When is the update due, that will allow you to build an EXE, and or have support for android and so on?
Questions, questions, questions!!!
Tall John
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 22:39
Hi GasiusGames. Thanks for purchasing the Shoot 'Em Up Kit, and thank you for the questions.

The server which the game uploads to is the Tall Studios server. We hope to upgrade to a cloud-based solution, but we are monitoring whether people want to share their games online in this way or to distribute the exe's themseleves.

You can see other people's games from the main menu by clicking, "Play" and then "Search". A list of games which have been uploaded by other developers will be shown, and you can click on any to download it. It will then be available in your "Play" list.

A quick word of warning though: There are still some issues with this feature and a few of the games are not playing properly when downloaded. We introduced a partial fix earlier in the week, but a final fix (hopefully ) will be available in the next few days. As I've mentioned, this only affects a few games though.

There has been a lot of demand for building your own exes to distribute or sell, and so there will be a free upgrade available next week to support the creation of Windows exe's.

The Professional version of the Shoot 'Em Up Kit is under development which will support Android, amongst others. This is still several months away and we will make more announcements when we have a clearer idea of the feature-set and release date.

Many thanks! John
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 23:31
It sounds good, but the Youtube videos are not very tempting. Maybe make a side scroller or something.

Tall John
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 23:55
Hi Pincho Paxton. Yes - We've had a few comments like that. We've concentrated on showing how easy it is to make a game and haven't really "Wowed" anyone. The engine supports diffuse, normal, specular and reflection mapping but we're not really showing that off yet.

We uploaded a side-scroller video onto YouTube yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpHfu6EhEmo

It shows off quite a few features:
- NPC AI: Selective firing (avoid friendly fire); Following splines; and chasing an entity (the player, in this case).
- Particle Systems: Both attached to Entities and placed in the scene.
- Diffuse and Normal mapping on all Entities and the scene - although the detail is lost on a YouTube video.
- Directional Pixel-Lighting.
As well as Music, sound effects, collision detection, score and lives, of course.

I appreciate this perhaps still doesn't "WOW" people and will need to be a faster pace, but we have an artist developing the 2nd level at the moment and we will try to show off a bit more.

Thanks for you advice. It is much appreciated!
Claws
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 02:53
A schmup creator in 2012 without the ability to export to mobile? Are you guys serious?
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 03:27
Yes, they are serious. It's not aimed at a mobile market. It's something that's fun and creative for anybody who doesn't know how to program but wants to have fun making a shmup, it doesn't even do stand alone, not yet anyway.

You want to develop something serious for the mobile market? Grab AGK. It's easy enough to use.


JLMoondog
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 06:05
I've yet to play a decent scmup on a mobile device that didn't feel clunky to control.

This engine looks intriguing, downloading the demo.

rolfy
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 06:42
You need to give the creators credit, so far they have taken on board all suggestions for this app and seem to be working towards making it usable. Give them a chance.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 11:44
Who knows, it may come in the future?


Tall John
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 12:55
We're certainly listening to the community and are releasing new versions on a regular basis.

Exporting a Windows stand-alone version is almost complete and we are hoping to announce the inclusion of this feature in the next few days.
fallen one
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 03:24
Once I fix my PCs Ill give the demo a whirl, one thing I wondered about. can you scroll left to right and loop back on oneself like in Defender? I had a game idea I wanted to make a while back,
mock up image.
http://www.avantivitastudios.com/images/mine-war.jpg
Perhaps this game engine could work for me. I would be interested in how far one can push the engine. Very excited about the ability to port to mobiles, it would be an instant buy for me.


Tall John
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 19:22
Hi Fallen One. You can create a wrap-around play area by creating an Active Area Trigger box for the Player and setting it to "Wrap". When the player reaches the end of the area they will be transported to the other side, taking the camera with them.

I really like the mock-up image. I like the blend of the high-quality sci-fi backdrop, and the classic sprites.

Thanks,
John
fallen one
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 22:57
Wrap around effect, I wonder if it works seamlessly like in the classic game Defender, amazing if it does, I'm going to have to get the old PCs working and give this engine a try, the AI of enemies intrigues me, what options are available, can you can set up triggers or chains, for example, in the Atari game Defender, you had enemies that would seek pods on the ground, if they touched them the pod disappeared and the enemy turned into a new more aggressive enemy, other enemies, if you shot them they destroyed, but spawned other enemies from it. Is it possible in the engine, is the scripting and AI open ended? perhaps I could remake some of the old classics.


Tall John
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Posted: 19th Mar 2012 23:57
Hi Fallen One. We're creating a demo to show the effect as it does require tweaking a few camera settings to ensure there is no tell-tale movement when you jump to the other end of the map.

NPCs can be told to chase any Entity in the game, and so you could use the Behaviour Editor to make NPCs chase a random pod.

The AI is built from combining basic AI tasks such as Chase, Evade, Move in Direction, Turn Towards, etc. We've built the list from classic shmup enemy behaviours and, as I've mentioned, you can combine different behaviours so that you have an 80% Chase with a 20% Move Random, for example.

There is also support for following splines, building formations, and creating NPC Generators (which provide a controlled or random flow of enemy from a set of spawn points).

As I've briefly mentioned there is a Behaviour Editor which provides a GUI interface for basic scripting, but it is not really for programming. We've provided a lot of tools and features with the intention that people can truly create games without having to write code.

Thanks,
John
Nickydude
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 23:28
"There is an updated version of the Shoot 'Em Up Kit User Guide available on the Tutorials page. http://www.tallstudios.com/tutorials"

Now I wonder who put that together...

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
Nickydude
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2012 12:52
Major Update

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Thraxas
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Posted: 4th Apr 2012 02:50
I finally decided to buy this. I'm on holiday at the moment and feel like trying something new. Let's see what I can create during the break.

http://thraxocorp.webs.com/ Visit my totally awesome website: Thraxocorp. It's my own company and I'm totes the CEO.
bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Apr 2012 19:30
I so wanna buy this for the kiddies, but no money Maybe come birthday-time

Flatlander
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Posted: 14th Apr 2012 10:57
I am downloading the trial. I'm going to let my 8 y/o Grandson take a look at it and see how easy it will be for him. If it is. I definitely will be purchasing it. Thanks for the new game making product Tall John.

Meows
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 06:40
ditto, stand alone exe. I like.

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Nickydude
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Posted: 24th Apr 2012 22:06 Edited at: 5th May 2012 20:15
V1.0.7 now available.

- Fixed an issue which prevented the user from editing a particle immediately after creating it.
- It is now possible to preview sounds from within the editors.
- Game icons appear correctly in the Play menu
- Collision offsets are now working correctly in-game.
- A Warning is displayed if a collision model is > 256 polygons and so won't be used.
- Scenery Particle Emitters can now be camera-relative.
- The text in the Behaviour Editor is now clearer.
- The options on the particle menu tab no longer go over the edge of the border when using 3D particles.
- Fixed a crash when enabling or disabling an item using the Behaviour Editor.
- Fixed an issue which could prevent Timers and Triggers from loading or saving their Enabled/Disabled lists correctly.
- The mouse scroll wheel will now scroll the menus when over a window.
- Background now stretch properly when the window is resized, and selection windows are centred.
- Fixed an issue where particles were being displayed even when the Particle emitter was disabled.
- Fixed an issue where Particle Emitters would be given the same name.
- Fixed an issue in the Behaviour Editor where selecting a Particle Emitter gave a list of Player entities instead.
- The Enable instruction now works correctly in the Behaviour Editor.

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 4th May 2012 19:52
Version 1.0.8 is now available for download. You can either download a small patch or download the whole program again from your order history. Here's the release notes:

Installation Notes
------------------
If you are re-installing the Shoot 'Em Up Kit then please be aware that the installation could overwrite some of the files
in the "My Documents\Shoot-Em-Up Kit Projects" folder, and you could lose details of Sprites, Entities, Sound Cues, Sound
Items, Particles and Definitions which you have created. Please back-up this folder before re-installing.


Version 1.0.8
-------------
- Added new shader which supports animation, diffuse mapping, normal mapping, specular mapping and environment mapping.
- Added "Fixed Direction" camera tracking type to allow a camera to move but maintain its original direction.
- Fixed crash when previewing sounds
- Fixed a potential crash when changing models with different numbers of tags.
- Fixed a problem with NPCs not following a 'Repeat' spline properly if the level is reset.
- Fixed a potential problem with NPCs not triggering after multiple runs of a game.
- Generated NPCs are now properly reset when player dies.

Known Issues
------------
- 2nd Level will be developed for the Cave sample game.
- Volume controller does not work in the user settings menu.

Features Missing or Disabled
----------------------------
- Volume and Controller dialogs for stand-alone games.
Nickydude
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Posted: 16th May 2012 11:08
Version 1.0.9 is now available for download. You can either download a small patch or download the whole program again from your order history. Here's the release notes:

Installation Notes
------------------
If you are re-installing the Shoot 'Em Up Kit then please be aware that the installation could overwrite some of the files
in the "My Documents\Shoot-Em-Up Kit Projects" folder, and you could lose details of Sprites, Entities, Sound Cues, Sound
Items, Particles and Definitions which you have created. Please back-up this folder before re-installing.


Version 1.0.9
-------------
- Fixed an issue with Animation speed in-game.
- Added new effect: Control Idle. This will be triggered when no direction is being pressed on the controller.
- Triggering an animation will now blend it with any previous animation.
- Fixed an issue which prevented the AI type from being set correctly from the Behaviour Editor.
- Fixed a potential crash in the Play menu.

Known Issues
------------
- Models exported using Fragmotion are not displaying correctly.
- Volume controller does not work in the user settings menu.

Features Missing or Disabled
----------------------------
- Volume and Controller dialogs for stand-alone games.

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
KeithC
Senior Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 16th May 2012 14:16
Great/Consistent support for this program!

-Keith

Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 25th May 2012 16:40
Version 1.0.10 is now available for download. You can either download a small patch or download the whole program again from your order history. Here's the release notes:

Installation Notes
------------------
If you are re-installing the Shoot 'Em Up Kit then please be aware that the installation could overwrite some of the files
in the "My Documents\Shoot-Em-Up Kit Projects" folder, and you could lose details of Sprites, Entities, Sound Cues, Sound
Items, Particles and Definitions which you have created. Please back-up this folder before re-installing.


Version 1.0.10
--------------
- Fixed an issue with particle effects now being created correctly for NPCs created by an NPC Generator.
- Sprites now display correctly on all front-end pages.
- Fixed a problem with long NPC Definitions appearing truncated in the General pane.
- NPCs will not be removed when they are off-screen unless their Definition is set to do so.
- Fixed an issue which prevented Sprite Entities from being removed when off-screen.
- Particle Effects now stop correctly when an NPC is removed for being off-screen.
- Camera-relative Active Areas now work correctly.

Known Issues
------------
- Models exported using Fragmotion are not displaying correctly.
- Volume controller does not work in the user settings menu.

Features Missing or Disabled
----------------------------
- Volume and Controller dialogs for stand-alone games.

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