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Geek Culture / Which Language to Use

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JohnA
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Location: The second star on the right
Posted: 23rd Mar 2012 08:50 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2012 08:55
Hi,
I learned to program in the 90's and i started with Pascel. I move to C/C++ but i never got the advanced aspects of either language. I have not seriously programed since then. I want to code some games and things i have written down, but I don't know which language to start with. I own DB and DB Pro, DarkGDK, DarkGDK.net and FPS Creator. I what some honest opinons on which to use first to creat with. I have tried them all and realise that each has its own benefits and liabilities, However i don't know the complexities of either. I want to first make a game this is a shooter but have RPG elements like inventory and quests.
Thank u for repling.

Heres Johnny
Indicium
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2012 17:14
I'm a huge fan of C++ so I have to go with that. If you spend a few weeks learning how it works you'll find that your code is a lot more manageable than it is in other languages. FPSC doesn't give you the level of control I think you'll be looking for. DB and DB pro, yes they're good, but they have the drawbacks of OOP, and unlike C++ you can't easily add new libraries to them( although there are plugins available! ).

If you go with DB Pro however, I think you'll find it massively increases the development speed.

It's personal preference really.

BatVink
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2012 19:02
As you have not gone into the advanced realms of C++, and haven't coded for a while, I would suggest DB Pro. It's the easiest to learn and fastest to use. You'll find more tutorials for DBP than the other languages too.

george++
AGK Tool Maker
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Location: Thessaloniki, Hellas
Posted: 23rd Mar 2012 19:14
Quote: "...but i never got the advanced aspects of either language..."

I am wondering what are the advanced aspects of a language.
Personally I love C/C++ and I use it for many years now, although I had good knowledge of GWBasic (lol), Basica (lol), Turbo Pascal
TheComet
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Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 23rd Mar 2012 19:30
If your game happens to be a 2D game, then I'd highly recommend using C++ and SDL. Very simple, fast, and easy.

TheComet

Airslide
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Location: California
Posted: 24th Mar 2012 03:47
I just want to throw in a recommendation for Allegro (version 5+) if you decide to go with C/C++, since SDL was mentioned.

But in your particular case, I'd say it might be best to start with something like DBP. However, if you do, start out with small projects like an asteroids clone and the like - things get very complicated very fast with something like an fps. If you really want quick results at the expense of power, FPSC is always a nice tool to play with.
JohnA
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 04:25
Thank you all for your input.
My first question: is what is SDL?
And yes, i remember GWbasic, Basica and of coarse, QBasic
I did a lot of stuff in Quick Basic too, which was the commercial version of QBasic.

I do want more then FPSC , but i like the library of matterials that i have. I know I can use the models in C/C++, but can i use the segment texture and pretty much anything else in my FPSC lib?

thnx again for your input.

-John-

Heres Johnny
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 05:29 Edited at: 24th Mar 2012 05:30
Alternative to Dark Basic Pro as you've used C++, Dark GDK or if you fancy playing with C#, Dark GDK.NET. If you've used C++, C# ought not be too difficult, even if you didn't get into the advanced stuff. I am a fan of C#'s language, though I don't own Dark GDK.NET myself.

However, I don't know how much addon support Dark GDK.NET has, though for regular Dark GDK with C++ I think you'll have a decent choice.

I spent a long time using Dark Basic Pro, it's a decent language, it's simple to use and easy to understand, the language lacks some of the features other languages have, for example you can't do anything object orientated, it is possible to simulate something similar but it might not be the most effective way of using DBP.


JohnA
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 09:16
Seppuku,

thanks for the input. I am lening towards Darkgdk. I have Darkgdk.net, but yea, not much support and vurtualy no addons. there is one in Visual Basic 2010, and i'vd used it to play around with, but i don't really understand what i am copying and typing in. So i stopped that. I do believe that i will come up with a good project in DBpro to get my feet wet, as most of the c/c++'s commands are from DBpro, so when i understand DBpro, at some point i will start my main project in DarkGDK c/c++. Now i just need to come up with a small idea for a project. Think John, think P)

John

P.S. Any ideas for a little project in DarkBasic Pro? I just want anything to code so i can then learn it and go on to C/C++. TIA P.S.S Or perhaps I Can just Read the Manual on the web and also look into other forms of learning DB pro.

=Arkii=

Heres Johnny
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 12:53
What about a little platformer? Run around, get pickups, maybe kill a few enemies and reach the end of the level. Perhaps make it a shooter platformer as you want to do a shooter with RPG elements later.


JohnA
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 15:09
Seppuku,
that is a great idea. i've never thought of that. I need to figure out where to get the mats from. I need to figure out if i can use the mats from FPSC. I hope i can, i have like 20 mod packs.
thank you for the info.

=Arkii=

Heres Johnny
old_School
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 19:19 Edited at: 24th Mar 2012 19:20
Quote: "If your game happens to be a 2D game, then I'd highly recommend using C++ and SDL. Very simple, fast, and easy.

TheComet"


Why would use use c++ for 2d? C++ is more for 3d or complex software. If your just getting back in the saddle, C#, Java, and VB are great for little 2d games. If your shooting for something larger then C++ or C# are the way to go. Over all the best choice is likely C#. I also recomend Visual Studio.
Indicium
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 19:44
Quote: "Why would use use c++ for 2d? C++ is more for 3d or complex software. If your just getting back in the saddle, C#, Java, and VB are great for little 2d games."


You must just bash your head against the keyboard to come out with this crap.

Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 24th Mar 2012 22:35 Edited at: 24th Mar 2012 22:36
Quote: "Why would use use c++ for 2d? C++ is more for 3d or complex software. If your just getting back in the saddle, C#, Java, and VB are great for little 2d games. If your shooting for something larger then C++ or C# are the way to go. Over all the best choice is likely C#. I also recomend Visual Studio."


I wish I could ban people for all the times they give bizarre and weird advice. Don't listen to old_School with regards to this subject matter. Personally I think old_School is a super-genius who's playing with us on super meta-level, floating around somewhere in the galaxy and just having a laugh.


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
Dar13
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Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 24th Mar 2012 22:52
Quote: "Why would use use c++ for 2d? C++ is more for 3d or complex software."

Although Indicium and Jeku have already denounced this strange man's advice, I want to add my own input.

What the heck are you talking about? C#/C++ are just fine for smaller programs, heck I use C++ for Project Euler programs all the time(less than 100 lines most of the time)!

To get back into programming in general, especially C++, I'd recommend checking out Project Euler. It's a math-oriented set of programming challenges, but it's a good way to practice creating efficient code(a must in video game programming).

Quote: "I need to figure out if i can use the mats from FPSC. "

If by mats you mean materials like textures and such then yes you can those textures and materials in just about any game engine or programming language out there. The only problem with using FPSC assets is that you can't use the FPSC FPE/FPS/FPI files in most other engines. You'd have to create your own custom file parser.

By far, Sepp has the best idea to get started in games programming. I wish I had started that way, instead I got bogged down in a large project and switched languages 3-4 times.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Mar 2012 23:49
Quote: "Why would use use c++ for 2d? C++ is more for 3d or complex software. If your just getting back in the saddle, C#, Java, and VB are great for little 2d games. If your shooting for something larger then C++ or C# are the way to go. Over all the best choice is likely C#. I also recomend Visual Studio."


You do know Visual Basic is FANTASTIC for 3D and not necessarily games projects using 2D graphics and windows forms?

Not a bash, but surely this should highlight a flaw in your argument.


Quote: "Seppuku,
that is a great idea. i've never thought of that. I need to figure out where to get the mats from. I need to figure out if i can use the mats from FPSC. I hope i can, i have like 20 mod packs.
thank you for the info."


No worries, also if you're going to do something in 3D, perhaps download MapScape (free) for doing your levels. Your player and pickups don't have to be anything complicated. You might be able to make crude, yet effective models for it.


If there's extra textures you need for your levels, CG Textures is a great royalty free resource. If you're not a music wizard either, Incomputech has a decent resource of royalty free music.


old_School
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Posted: 25th Mar 2012 00:26
Yeah sorry Jeku I forgot how many projects have you completed/released? 0ooo ok just making sure. troll much
Seppuku Arts
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 25th Mar 2012 02:05
I know Jeku was a programmer for EA and worked on games like Madden then moved onto software programming for Nokia and I know he's had a couple of jobs since then, however, I did stop stalking him, so I'm a little behind. However, his signature says 'Software Developer - CBS', so I'd hazard a guess that's what he's doing now.

Quote: "By far, Sepp has the best idea to get started in games programming. I wish I had started that way, instead I got bogged down in a large project and switched languages 3-4 times."


lol, to be fair, I wish I did exactly the same. And I did the whole switching languages thing too. DBP, Torque, C++ & Irrlicht, back to DBP, Neo Axis, back to DBP.


Jeku
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Posted: 25th Mar 2012 02:22 Edited at: 25th Mar 2012 02:27
Quote: "Yeah sorry Jeku I forgot how many projects have you completed/released? 0ooo ok just making sure. troll much"


To be honest... in my spare time outside of my real job? A small handful, and you can see them all posted here in the TGC forums over the years. Not that it matters, because I'm a senior software engineer at my day job, so when I get home I'd rather unwind than spend tons of time on personal projects.

I wasn't aware that our pedigree on this site is equal to the amount of successful projects we've released, though? What's the equation?

In my experience, your post regarding C++, C#, and DBP, is completely erroneous, and I simply called you out on that. If your ego is hurt, go talk to Dr. Phil.


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
BatVink
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Posted: 25th Mar 2012 11:35
Quote: "Yeah sorry Jeku I forgot how many projects have you completed/released?"


Yes Jeku, where's your track record, all I see is your name in the credits of Facebreaker, Fight Night, Madden NFL, NBA Live, NCAA Football...

oh, that's one hell of a pedigree, probably the best around here!

JohnA
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Posted: 27th Mar 2012 01:18
i've been trying to use DBPro, but i don't even know how to declare varibles. I know how to do this in c++. I think i'll try that and just keep it simple, it would save me time as i'd have to learn DBPro for simple things that i know in C++. I'll keep all your ideas in mind, however. thank you guys soooo much.

=Arkii=

Heres Johnny
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Mar 2012 01:46
Declaring variables is a bit different in DBP and you can do it in a number of ways.

The simplest would be:

String:
text$ = "Hello World"

Integer:

counter = 3

Float:

velocity# = 2.5


But of course, you can also declare them as so:

counter as integer
text as string
velocity as float
answer as boolean

To make a global variable:

global counter

There's also 'user defined types', which is a little more complicated, but I like them as a means of organising my variables, if you're used to Object Orientated Programming in C++, UDTs look a little similar.

You might declare one like:

type character

name as string
filename as string
number as integer
health as integer

endtype

Then you'd attach that type to a variable:

player as character

Then you could do:
player.name = "Bob"
player.filename = "bob.x"
player.number = 1
player.health = 100

load object player.filename, player.number

If you're familiar with arrays, you can declare them as so:

dim object(10)
object(1) = 4

UDTs can also be treated as arrays:

dim player(3) as character
player(1).name = "Bob"
player(2).name = "Steve"
player(3).name = "Lord Beefington Eqsuire"

Obviously you can keep it as simple as you want, but there's a quick run through of the types of variable declarations.


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