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Geek Culture / Dual wielding swords?

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Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 24th May 2012 02:48
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Let's say that somebody is going to utilize two swords rather than one, and they place the sheathes of both swords on each hip, respectively. Which hand grabs which sword? Do you reach across your body and hold the sword on your left hip with your right hand, or do you hold the sword on your left hip with your left hand?

I'm curious because my friend is doing a drawing where her character is dual wielding a couple swords but only has one sheathed in the picture. She wondered if it looked natural to have the sword on the left unsheathed and in the left hand and asked me. 'Course, I don't know anything about swordplay, so I thought it best to ask you guys.

Any ideas? I attempted google but thought it too specific a subject to find good results on.
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Nateholio
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Posted: 24th May 2012 02:55 Edited at: 24th May 2012 02:56
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You would typically draw from the opposite side, especially if you're using something long like a sword. Blades opposite side, firearms same side. And nope, I don't LARP.

In Development: K96 - Combat Simulation
Keep your Hope and Change, I choose individual Liberty!
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Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 24th May 2012 03:00
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Yes, that was what I was thinking. I'm not a LARPer either, heh. Tend to avoid that, personally.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th May 2012 03:06 Edited at: 24th May 2012 03:06
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I tend to think of it as crossing the arms over because the motion is more fluid. So I think reaching across would be fairly normal. Japanese swordsman do it and usually they have a Katana as their main weapon and a wakizashi to draw at close distance, though it's not necessarily shorter than a Katana, but is usually held in the offhand or as a back up sword. Though some times they are depicted as being full dual weilders. Plus, to the Japanese there's a whole art to unsheathing a sword on your enemy, the idea is to take them down in a single fluid movement and they always unsheathe from across. Heck, there's a martial art dedicate to it (Iaido).

But as a Karateka, I got to learn how to stop a Samurai from unsheathing his sword, destroy his manlihood and kill him in 3 short movements. Can't wait to get to use it in a real world application.

In short. It seems most natural to reach across (left hand to right hip for example) than to draw from matching hand and hips. The Japanese have refined it to an art and you would mess with a Samurai, so they must know what they're doing.

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Nateholio
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Posted: 24th May 2012 03:07
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Quote: "Tend to avoid that, personally."


Ha ha. I got dragged into it once. A guy I worked with knew I was into swordplay invited me to a "swordplay" session but didn't bother to tell me it was LARP. Needless to say, I was quite pissed when we showed up and everyone is dressed up and talking oddly.

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Keep your Hope and Change, I choose individual Liberty!
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 24th May 2012 03:07
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Quote: "I'm not a LARPer either, heh. Tend to avoid that, personally."

I avoid it but only because I don't want a video of me to surface on the internet

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 24th May 2012 03:14
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Quote: " how to stop a Samurai from unsheathing his sword"


like the start of this duel?

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Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 24th May 2012 03:50
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@Sepp,

It's funny you mention Iaido (though not too funny seeing as the thread is about swordplay, heh). I remember something interesting awhile back when I used to practice Shotokan and participate in tournaments. The older blackbelts ranged in many different styles and one of the more noticeable people who participated in these tournaments was someone who practiced Japanese Swordsmanship, which I assume was Iaido. He was an elderly man of what looked to be around 80, though his age didn't deter his skills in the least. I've heard that his father had owned a very popular line of Japanese Katanas or some such and his family was very rich because of it. Anyway, this man had obviously dedicated most of his life to the art of swordsmanship. There was nobody in the building more respectful to a sword than he was, heh. The guy would take upwards of around 1-2 minutes just sheathing and unsheathing his sword (!), and with such technique and grace that you instantly knew that he knew what he was doing.

'Course, me not knowing anything of the art, I just thought it looked cool, though upon reflection I'm sure that this man was well respected among the community that I had yet to officially become apart of. His kata was magnificently performed (and self made, might I add). For an 80 some year old man, he had some impressive flexibility, too.

(And yes, I can't help but talk about martial arts and whatnot. Forgive me fellow forum-goers).
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Libervurto
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Posted: 24th May 2012 05:57
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You cross your body. Imagine having a sheathed sword on your left hip, now try drawing it with your left hand, it's very awkward. Now with the right it is much more fluid and you can draw to the side maybe even straight into a slash.

WARNING: The above comment may contain sarcasm.
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Kezzla
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Posted: 24th May 2012 09:04
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The only sword work we do does not involve sheath's but i cant help but think that for dual wielding a sheath on either side of your hip would be cumbersome and awkward to double draw, you'd get your arms tangled, and expose the underside of your wrists at full extension.

I don't practice sheathing or drawing, but for double swords I would maybe try both swords over one shoulder(one side of Leonardo from the ninja turtles), then you could draw them both without getting tangled, and use them both with the same waist motion straight from the sheath.


I think that one on the hip and one on the back on the opposite side would be interesting.

reach right hand down to left hip for one sword, left hand up over right shoulder. that would set up a stretch reflex and give the choice of an upward or downward slice for an opening move, straight from the sheath.

but I am not a samurai or ninja. so these are just ideas

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th May 2012 10:23 Edited at: 24th May 2012 10:27
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@Cheese, Interestingly my sensei practiced some Iaido and came in one less with a Katana to show it off. I wouldn't mind learning some swordsmanship, preferable Kendo, but I don't have any dojos nearby. Though that's didn't stop me & my dad (when I studied Karate) getting the bokken out and sparring in the back garden. Mind you we did that with other weapons - like the Bo and Nunchaku, a foam nunchaku, which turned out to be plastic on the inside (as we found out when we manage to break them). Once you've studied Karate, it's actually very easy to pick up a Japanese weapon and just use it - okay, things like the Nunchaku require a little extra training, but we only used a book for that and were amatuerish at it.

Quote: "like the start of this duel?"

Same opening move, but then you kick him in the male parts, elbow him in the face and snap his neck.

That video reminds me a little of a story about the Samurai in my avatar (Miyamoto Musashi), who when faced with a duel he got up late forgot his sword and made a bokken out of an oar. Essentially he took out (and killed) his opponent in a single strike, using essentially what was Iaido - the art of drawing your sword, killing your enemy in a single strike, wiping the blood off and sheathing it. Also, the man wrote a really good book called The Book of the 5 Rings, definitely worth a read if you're interested in Samurai philosophy. Same for Tsunetomo Yamamoto's Hagakure.

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maho76
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Posted: 24th May 2012 11:05
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just to say out of japanese sword fighting with katana, you NEVER would draw both swords the same time, NEVER. simply because the katana would split/burst the scabbard into little pieces when you fastdraw without a hand under the tsuba. i have seen this happened once in training. he tilt the katana just a little, and the saya (scabbard) bursts into thousands of pieces, splinters injuring a guy who stands 3 meters beside.

besides that you wont fight with two katanas of your own, especially japanese fighting styles are based of the katana as some sort of butcher axe, you need power behind each slash, wich is only possible when you fight 2handed. a second weapon (tanto or wakizashi) is only used against more than 1 opponent, when injured or when you are in a brawl in short distance. 2 swords are only used against a number of opponents when you can catch a sword from someone lying dead on the ground and surrounded by your enemies.

a katana is a damn heavy piece of deadly metal, and as said its more an axe than a sword, also fighting style is more of an axe than of classic european longsword-fighting.
no samurai would carry 2 katanas for dual-wield fighting, that only happens in hollywood.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th May 2012 11:27 Edited at: 24th May 2012 11:27
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Yup, usually that secod sword is a Wakizashi used maybe as a backup, for close quarters, removing the head of an opponent or to commit seppuku (I think a tanto might have been used in ritual suicide too). Of course, holding a Katana with 2 hands gives you a lot more control, which is important in any Japanese combat. It's better to have controlled blow and to have controlled defense. which is pretty much true for any Japanese martial art. I've tried weilding a bokken one handed (I don't actually own a Katana, but would like to) and it's really weighted to be used by 2 hands. Dual-wielding reduces that level of control, as said that might be useful for certain situations. I've tried dual-weilding bokken and it's not easy.

Though the Cheeseman's friend might not be wanting to dual-weild katanas, I just turn to the Japanese for how they draw a sword because I know more about Japanese swordplay than European.

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Van B
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Posted: 24th May 2012 12:47
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Might be easier to draw with the sheaves on the back, Legolas style... sheaves at each side would be a pain in the butt I think, I'd constantly be knocking lamps over.

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