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Geek Culture / Humble Bundle V

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RedneckRambo
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Location: Worst state in USA... California
Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 03:25 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2012 03:35
Quote: "Iam just gonna say this now first of, if youre paying 1$ you can just aswell go ahead and pirate it: same thing, only difference is that one of them is illegal."

This and piracy in no way shape or form even come close to the same thing. If a company tells me I can have five games for a penny then there is nothing morally wrong whatsoever. They said I can have them for that cost. I don't HAVE to buy these games in the first place anyways. I will never even download these games most likely anyways so I see it as I've just given a penny for nothing.

Quote: "If you're a student or unemployed, then I see your point of paying 1 cent. I'm payed though, and I'm happy to drop them a fair amount of money."

I am a student and I am sort of unemployed at the moment. I'm about to have knee surgery and can't work and can't get on disability until after I have my surgery which won't be for several weeks to a few months. So I'm living on no income whatsoever at the moment.

Thraxas
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 03:26
Quote: "I'm payed though, and I'm happy to drop them a fair amount of money."


I already paid full price for the all these games so, imo, have supported the developers much more than by buying the humble bundle. I already give to charity but ones of my choice.

No one loses out during the humble bundle. Some people are not going to spend money on these games. Then they do for 1c. Every 1c adds up and the devs and charity have money that they would never have had otherwise.

Paying 1c is not the same as pirating them.

http://thraxocorp.webs.com/ Visit my totally awesome website: Thraxocorp. It's my own company and I'm totes the CEO.
Le Shorte
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 07:19
This is by far the best HIB yet. Can't wait to get these things on my machine >

Quote: "On a similar gift-giving note, does anyone here want a free copy of RIFT? I've got a code for a digital copy of the game and one-month subscription."

I'll take you up on that offer.

Cheesehead for life.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 12:32 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2012 12:36
Actually it's pretty much the developers going:

We're giving these games away to encourage you guys to donate money to charity.

I got Portal for free because Valve decided to give it away for free, but it's not the same as me pirating it. Heck, I've still support them by buying their others games. Heck, if I didn't play Portal I might not have bought Portal 2.

When the guy comes around with a bucket in the street asking for donation, you'll give him what you wish to spare. Collectively it'll mount up. All this means is the less you give the less generous you are (or the poorer you are).


I'm not sure I'd boast about given as little as possible away, but I don't think they're boast, "woot! I gave as little possible to charity" but more of a, "dude, I got these games for freaking cheap". Like somebody might be pleased they got Hexagon 2 for free and just because I paid for mine doesn't mean that those who got it for free are boasting about whether or not they've ripped off the developers or are scroungers. It's what the developers have chosen to do, so people will take them up on it and I guess some will be pretty psyched on the amount of money they've saved.

TheComet
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 12:53 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2012 13:02
Quote: "If a company tells me I can have five games for a penny then there is nothing morally wrong whatsoever."


You sir have your moral compass pointing in the wrong direction. It's everything but morally correct. The company doesn't encourage you to pay as little as possible, in fact, the people in the video refer to you as a "jerk" if you are such a person.

You may be someone without income, you may be someone that needs the money for something else, and there's nothing wrong with that. But those still remain only excuses, and don't in any way justify you to think it's morally correct to pay nothing but a penny.

Quote: "I will never even download these games most likely anyways"


So you only bought them to support charity and the devs? I'm sure they'll be happy to split up that one penny then. How generous of you to think of them and not the games.

TheComet

Melancholic
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 13:20
Quote: "But if I can get them for nearly-free, then why the hell not? If I couldn't buy them for a penny, then they are a penny shorter than what they would have been"


Just want to point out that their bank fees and such amount to more than one cent, so by donating that much you are in no way helping the developers, you are costing them.


I can count to banana...
TheComet
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 14:30
@ Redneck

You should go and read your signature, and then read the first few paragraphs on your website. Oh the irony!

TheComet

budokaiman
FPSC Tool Maker
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Playing: Hard to get
Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 14:49
Quote: "I still think that the average price is disturbingly low though"

Why? The whole point of HIB is to offer all these games for a low price right at the beginning, that way people are rushing to buy the bundle for as cheap as possible. Because the bundle starts off so cheap and works it's way up, people will buy the bundle as soon as possible, without thinking about it. If the price started higher, and wasn't affected by other people's prices, there would be no rush to buy it and a lot of people wouldn't buy the bundle. While the average is significantly lower than the price for all the games, they managed to make $2,000,000+ in two days. You can't say that's unfair.


3DS friend code: 0044-2895-5474
TheComet
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 14:56
Quote: "You can't say that's unfair."


I never said it was unfair. As long as their minimum costs are covered by a donation, it's fine I suppose. What I'm trying to get at is that on a moral level it's still being a douche in my opinion.

TheComet

Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 15:02
Quote: "If a company tells me I can have five games for a penny then there is nothing morally wrong whatsoever. They said I can have them for that cost. I don't HAVE to buy these games in the first place anyways. I will never even download these games most likely anyways so I see it as I've just given a penny for nothing."

How benevolent of you!
So you find nothing wrong with abusing people's generosity? And yet, as comet pointed out, you are happy to beg for donations to buy yourself a computer!? Sounds like someone needs to learn the value of money and, more importantly, common courtesy.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 15:06
I'll agree! You don't want to donate to others generously but you beg for people to give you a handsome donation? Something wrong with that. Something wrong at such a low level, I think you need to get your BIOS checked.

Quik
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 16:18
Quote: "What I'm trying to get at is that on a moral level it's still being a douche in my opinion."


to me its just that if you pay one dollar or below, otherwise you are doing exactly what the point of the bundle is.


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 22:07
All these comments are making me feel like a jerk for only having $1 in my wallet

http://www.talenthouse.com/travisgatlin
You can find my latest work here. Please comment on my work and tell me what you think!
Van B
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 22:45
Notch gave $3000, but then he's a billionaire or something these days, and I probably gave him £50 of that. If someone has very little money to their name, and gives $10, then that's pretty damn charitable - and not at all douche-bagish IMO.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Quik
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2012 23:22
10$ is totally very much nice, Van B, what I am complaining about is 1$, which is the price of a soda, for 5 games.. I will pay above the average in case of better games for that, otherwise ill probably pay 5$-6$

ill just wait and see ~~


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 00:58
Quote: "Notch gave $3000, but then he's a billionaire or something these days"
I would give at least $500,000 if I was a billionaire!

I wonder if Redneck has checked his BIOS yet...

RedFlames
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 01:36
Well, I payed 8$ even though I already own more than half of it I'm only really interested in Superbrothers, and maybe the other soundtracks in there...
RedneckRambo
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Location: Worst state in USA... California
Posted: 4th Jun 2012 01:47 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 01:50
Quote: "You should go and read your signature, and then read the first few paragraphs on your website. Oh the irony!"

I'm gonna leave it there because I've actually been donated money. lol. Why people would actually give me money is beyond me. I'd certainly scoff at anyone who created that but it's actually given me a few bucks here and there so why not...

I like money. It's pretty awesome to have money. It's even more awesome when I don't have to spend money. I care more about my personal well-being than people I don't know. If leaving a stupid donate button to my poorness gets me ten bucks every few months, hell yeah I'm gonna leave it up lol.

It's funny to me that people are freaking out that I will not donate enough money, yet NOT a SINGLE one of you had any problem nabbing Portal when it was free.

You folks... are all nutter butters.

Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 01:59
Quote: "I'm gonna leave it there because I've actually been donated money. lol. Why people would actually give me money is beyond me."


This sounds way nuttier than any post in this thread that I've read.

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 02:08 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 04:29
Quote: "This sounds way nuttier than any post in this thread that I've read."

I know right? lol. I couldn't agree more.
But let's face it. I don't know you. I don't know the developers. I don't know ANYONE online aside from Thraxas. I care about myself my family and my friends. That's what's important to me and that's all that matters. I'm going to do what's best for myself and loved ones. If I'm in a well place in my life, worth good money and what not, than I absolutely would donate more than a dollar because I can and it's obviously a nice thing to do. Just because someone chooses not to make a donation does not mean they have done anything wrong. But as of right now, I'm in a near worst possible stage imaginable. No money, no job, one leg and an upcoming surgery that will put me on my ass for 4 to 6 months that my health insurance won't fully cover. It's going to cost me several grand that I don't have. So yeah... I'm paying a penny folks.

And when it comes to the banking fees, that's something I genuinely didn't even think of. If I knew the exact costs of that, I would gladly pay one penny above those costs.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 03:48 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 03:51
Quote: " yet NOT a SINGLE one of you had any problem nabbing Portal when it was free."


Certainly didn't! But I am sure Valve are happy by the fact I liked it and decided to buy the sequel. I think another one would be Daz 3D, you're getting 100s of dollars worth of 3D software, for free. No restrictions either. But in the end it tends to work to their advantage, they don't do these things because they're necessarily feeling generous towards people but because it helps them get a return. If I didn't buy Hexagon at the massive discount I bought it for (from one of their previous offers) my money would have actually gone on other software.

My copy of Carrara 5 Pro? Came free with a magazine, what's the advantage there? I like it, I love the program and there's features in Carrara 8 Pro I think would be very useful. Again, I wouldn't have previously bought Carrara, but I will upgrade when I have the money spare.

Also, Visual Studio Express and Unity3D Indie could be added to the list. There never used to be a free version of VS and Unity3D Indie used to cost around $200 iirc. All that hard work developers put into those products, people are getting for free. But it's their prerogative and it seems to have the effect they desired - except obviously VS as Express is changing in the next version, which is only a sign that maybe they were giving away too much for it to be sensible for business.


What about when it comes to charity? By essentially giving their products away for free with each donation has people who might not have thought about giving money to these charities to give some donations, some may be small, but the overall result is worth the trouble. I don't think paying little makes people a d-bag, more like it either makes them poor or just not very generous. Many of us will take the 'cheap' or 'free' option if it's available to us. If developers weren't happy with this or if it had too much of a negative effect on their sales they would not agree to it. Anybody with business sense will know not to make business decisions that drain their money, even if they feel the need to have some generosity or like to 'give back'.

Also, some people will make their donations to charity when they can regardless of any campaigns to encourage them to do it or they may find other means of helping their fellow man.

Jimmy
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 03:50
Quote: "And when it comes to the banking fees, that's something I genuinely didn't even think of. If I knew the exact costs of that, I would gladly pay one penny above those costs."


I think it's somewhere around $0.30 per transaction, but they still let people pay a penny, because there are people like notch that make up for it.

At the end of the day there are millions of dollars going to indie devs and charities that otherwise wouldn't be, despite how much individual people donated, and that's something I think should be celebrated.

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 04:41 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 05:51
Quote: "Certainly didn't! But I am sure Valve are happy by the fact I liked it and decided to buy the sequel."

For people who haven't played Portal, sure that's fine. But there are PLENTY of people (and LOADS from these forums alone) who already experienced Portal, whether they rented it, played at a friends, borrowed from a friend or what, they already played it. For people who haven't played it, yeah that's an awesome way to advertise the sequel. And there are of course the large portion who once owned it on a console but no longer do.
There's a flip side to everything. There are those who got Portal free and had never played it previously, loved it and bought Portal 2 and those who already played it that got it free. It's the exact same with the bundle. There are those who will donate large amounts, and those that won't. The ONLY thing whatsoever that matters, is if the company overall receives great donations. The INDIVIDUAL is irrelevant (aside from those who donate literally thousands of course.)

Yes obviously if everyone had that mentality, then there would be no donations. But we live in a world where everyone believes everything differently. There is obviously nothing wrong with being able to donate one penny when millions of dollars are still being made through these bundles. My single donations did NOTHING to affect them in any way.

Quote: "I think it's somewhere around $0.30 per transaction, but they still let people pay a penny, because there are people like notch that make up for it.

At the end of the day there are millions of dollars going to indie devs and charities that otherwise wouldn't be, despite how much individual people donated, and that's something I think should be celebrated."

I will do 31 cents come next time around then. I may not want to pay for anything but I certainly don't necessarily want the company to lose any. And people aren't going to celebrate the fact that every humble bundle has had amazing donations because of there are some who don't donate to OTHER people's standards.

This world has become far, far, far, far too sensitive.

Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 05:39
thank god for karma...

would a mod please slap me now for the rest of the response i was thinking of serving up to the above? thanks.

Virtual Nomad @ California, USA . DBPro V7.5
AMD Phenomâ„¢ X4 9750 Quad-Core @ 2.4 GHz . 8 GB PC2-6400 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 3650 @ 512 MB . Vista Home Premium 64 Bit
NIlooc223
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 06:02
haha virtual nomad

Your signature has been erased by a mod - Please reduce it to (600x120) maximum size
TheComet
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 08:07
Quote: "would a mod please slap me now for the rest of the response i was thinking of serving up to the above? thanks."


Only BiggAdd can read minds, because he isn't human.

TheComet

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 11:45 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 11:46
Quote: "Yes obviously if everyone had that mentality, then there would be no donations. But we live in a world where everyone believes everything differently. There is obviously nothing wrong with being able to donate one penny when millions of dollars are still being made through these bundles. My single donations did NOTHING to affect them in any way."


And the good thing is, what most would consider moral does not abide by the Kantian view of ethics. Basically, the idea of if "everybody did it, would it be logical?" Like if everybody murdered then we'd all be dead, so murder is wrong. (it's more complicated than that, but I'm not about to write an essay of a post on something barely relevant) Or, if everybody donated 1 cent, they'd make a loss therefore it's wrong to donate 1 cent.

Quote: "The ONLY thing whatsoever that matters, is if the company overall receives great donations. The INDIVIDUAL is irrelevant (aside from those who donate literally thousands of course.)"


To be honest, I think that's their exactly intention. I don't think they care how much an individual donates, just how much they receive over all.

TheComet
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 15:35
Quote: "The INDIVIDUAL is irrelevant"


That may be so, but that still doesn't change the moral correctness of paying 1 cent of said individual.

TheComet

lazerus
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 15:45
Psychonauts cashes constantly *sadface*

Portfolio; Arthiccup.com
Lazerus Reborn on Polycount and a few other places.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 15:57
Come now Comet, our dear friend, Redneck Rambo single handedly fought off the Vietcong with a washboard wearing only a wife-beater and a mullet (yes, no pants), he survived for weeks in the middle east living only on roadkill - oh and he took on a whole army with a shotgun. Sure he went on a rampage when he walked the streets as a homeless veteran because the locals didn't like drifters, but I think he's paid his dues.

Also, this guy who look exactly like him was a boxing champion who literally fought communism.



TheComet
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 16:23
You're right.

I'm stuck in Limbo (I mean the game ), but I refuse to look at any walk throughs.

TheComet

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 17:23
Limbo is a great game. I hate the flipping spider though, I'm an arachnophobic, so it's a little torturous. I've not completed it yet (I think I'm stuck on the bit where I'm at, not played it in a while) but I'm sure you'll have fun playing through it.

bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 17:31 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 17:32
Quote: "I'm stuck in Limbo (I mean the game ), but I refuse to look at any walk throughs."


I've had to look up 2 things. Both times the solution was tricky.

Spoiler?


I say that was fair

Libervurto
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 20:54 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 21:00
Quote: "I will do 31 cents come next time around then. I may not want to pay for anything but I certainly don't necessarily want the company to lose any."

You have a conscience now? What happened to "I only care about my family" and "If a company tells me I can have five games for a penny then [that's all I'll pay,] there is nothing morally wrong whatsoever."

I had a feeling you simply didn't understand the repercussions. There's a reason why things have certain values, some things are overpriced but there's always a minimum required to make a profit and stay in business. Sorry if that was patronising.

Quote: "There are those who will donate large amounts, and those that won't. The ONLY thing whatsoever that matters, is if the company overall receives great donations. The INDIVIDUAL is irrelevant (aside from those who donate literally thousands of course.)"

So stealing is okay if other people pay?
By paying $1 I essentially stole those games so I feel bad about it but I literally can't afford to pay any more. I'm very grateful for people like Notch who make up the difference because without them there would be no humble bundle and a I wouldn't have these games. It doesn't make paying $1 "okay" but at least I recognise that, and I'm only a scumbag because I'm poor, not immoral. It's not the same as theft of course but if you pay under the odds for anything you're either a tight scrounger or a charity case, neither are anything to be proud about.

Quote: "I'm in a near worst possible stage imaginable. No money, no job, one leg and an upcoming surgery that will put me on my ass for 4 to 6 months that my health insurance won't fully cover. It's going to cost me several grand that I don't have."

Sorry to hear about your troubles, it sucks when people don't help each other out doesn't it.

@all
What do you think would happen if the whole economy worked like humble bundle?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 22:10 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 22:14
Quote: "What do you think would happen if the whole economy worked like humble bundle?
"


What get free stuff with every donation made? That's all it is. I probably would have given more that 1 cent myself, but I didn't actually give anything, because I actually don't have any money in my bank account the moment (literally, £0). I give to charity, I just haven't on this occasion.

It's not like theft, no more than it is getting Portal for free or Hexagon, or getting a free pen when you open up a bank account. Ideally people should give more. But they've decided to go with that system because they are obviously happy enough to essentially give their games away in support of the charity. Nobody is suggesting the economy should work that way or people should pay what they like for goods, but if they're offered to the freedom to name a price and they will name it. If people are offered something for free, they'll probably take it.

I don't think it's immoral to pay minimum - they'll be a long way off from 'Philanthropist of the year', but then being a philanthropist is not a requirement in being a moral person, generosity is a good quality and one I think should be praised and encouraged, not one that should be guilt tripped or forced.

It even bugs me that charities stop me in the middle of the street to guilt trip me, I feel more inclined to listen to those who talk about what a donation means for those it'll help rather than telling me what'll happen if I don't donate. I know what kind of things happen in the world, I don't need to patronised and guilt tripped in the middle of the street. I'm more interested in what they'll do than to be made to feel like I'm a horrible person.

Jimmy
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 22:27
Quote: "What do you think would happen if the whole economy worked like humble bundle?"


Well, that would be a highly efficient socialistic economy, so mass genocide.

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 4th Jun 2012 23:02 Edited at: 4th Jun 2012 23:21
Quote: "Sorry to hear about your troubles, it sucks when people don't help each other out doesn't it."

No. This is my life, I screwed it up. I expect nothing from people outside of my life. Yes irony in my signature blah blah blah, but I didn't truly expect people to donate anything and it actually got me money to buy some extra food and that was cool so I left it up. And yes I realize that makes me a douche, but really if you were given free money I don't see why you wouldn't at least consider being called a douche for it lol. And if people honestly believe they truly deserve from others outside of your life then that's sad to me. Regardless of how far you have dropped. I've hit rock bottom, there's a lot of crap going on, repercussions from decisions I made. I don't expect anyone to help me get through it because I need to do it and I need to do it myself because it's my life.

Quote: "You have a conscience now? What happened to "I only care about my family" and "If a company tells me I can have five games for a penny then [that's all I'll pay,] there is nothing morally wrong whatsoever.""

Just because I care about my loved ones and not random people online, doesn't mean I want to hurt them. I didn't realize they'd actually lose money when I donate one penny. I just flat out didn't think about it. That was an ignorant mistake on my part. I still end up donating a penny anyways. I now may feel a SLIGHT amount of guilt that the company is going to lose a few cents, but in the end millions were made and it doesn't matter and then I won't feel ANY guilt whatsoever because it doesn't matter. The company is obviously happy with the bundles otherwise there wouldn't be Humble Bundle FIVE in the first place.

Quote: "What get free stuff with every donation made? That's all it is. I probably would have given more that 1 cent myself, but I didn't actually give anything, because I actually don't have any money in my bank account the moment (literally, £0). I give to charity, I just haven't on this occasion.

It's not like theft, no more than it is getting Portal for free or Hexagon, or getting a free pen when you open up a bank account. Ideally people should give more. But they've decided to go with that system because they are obviously happy enough to essentially give their games away in support of the charity. Nobody is suggesting the economy should work that way or people should pay what they like for goods, but if they're offered to the freedom to name a price and they will name it. If people are offered something for free, they'll probably take it.

I don't think it's immoral to pay minimum - they'll be a long way off from 'Philanthropist of the year', but then being a philanthropist is not a requirement in being a moral person, generosity is a good quality and one I think should be praised and encouraged, not one that should be guilt tripped or forced.

It even bugs me that charities stop me in the middle of the street to guilt trip me, I feel more inclined to listen to those who talk about what a donation means for those it'll help rather than telling me what'll happen if I don't donate. I know what kind of things happen in the world, I don't need to patronised and guilt tripped in the middle of the street. I'm more interested in what they'll do than to be made to feel like I'm a horrible person."

This is why Seppuku for president. He's samurai.

Quote: "So stealing is okay if other people pay?"

Wow, that's just ridiculous. Who is stealing? NO ONE. The company is ALLOWING it because they are making loads of money. I don't think you are understanding that this is charity. It doesn't matter if penny donations are made, so long as a great amount is made in the end. Let me ask you a question... If you had the opportunity to make your own Humble Bundle, does it matter to you that penny donations were made, or that you made millions of dollars and the penny donations were entirely irrelevant because of the overall amount made. I'm going to go ahead and say you would be plenty thrilled with the THREE MILLION dollars that have been made. Sure it's upsetting that you could have made 3.0001 million if those people donated a dollar, but if they weren't allowed to make the penny donations, they won't do it at all. So the amount made will be pretty damn close to the same.

On a side note, Notch is now in third on the top donations.

Quote: "To be honest, I think that's their exactly intention. I don't think they care how much an individual donates, just how much they receive over all."

Exactly. Otherwise there wouldn't be a Humble Bundle.

If I own a business, I don't care whatsoever how much certain individuals buy, so long as I'm making what I want in the end.

Why is it that it's immoral to not donate to this charity, when it's not immoral to donate to the other million charities you don't donate to? I guarantee you've walked past a charity booth at least once in your life and didn't even give them a penny.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
Jimmy
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 00:09
Just as an aside, the founders of the Humble Bundle gave a really interesting presentation about its history and the gooey details of the first couple of bundles. They go over a lot of the stuff that's been discussed in this thread, except they have the actual data Y'all should check it out!

Libervurto
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 00:26
Quote: "No. This is my life, I screwed it up. I expect nothing from people outside of my life..."

That's a really sad mindset to have. Where would humanity be if we only looked out for ourselves? We are a pretty feeble species, we must work together to achieve anything substantial.

You talk about people helping you like it's some sort of punishment for them; I hate this selfish attitude that's purported by government and the media. Giving and helping are beneficial to the donor too: you feel good and the help you give improves the world a little bit, which benefits YOU. (The returns are more noticeable when you donate locally.)

I hate this dog-eat-dog mentality where the success of one person must be at the detriment of another. It doesn't have to be like that and in most real* cases the success of others benefits everyone. (*Real as in success that is not purely monetary: producing art, making scientific discoveries, etc.)

Humanity has a shared wealth, spread across the planet, which increases as we invent new technologies, harvest resources and expand our culture. Capitalism is nothing more than a way to tip the plate towards the mouths of the greedy.

Consider the life of Srinivasa Ramanujan, one the greatest mathematicians ever to have lived. He lived an impoverished life, survived smallpox and died from malnutrition at the age of 32. How much more could he have accomplished given his fair share of wealth? How many Ramanujans have we lost due to capitalist-induced poverty? How many geniuses have died from malnutrition and preventable/curable diseases before they had even reached their sixth birthday?

At least they had the "freedom" to suffer in poverty, I would hate to think of someone helping them; how would they ever learn to be responsible?

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 00:33 Edited at: 5th Jun 2012 00:35
We aren't going to agree ever. I believe average people don't deserve anything from others they don't know. Obviously there are extreme cases like such in Africa where they flat out do not have any options other than accepting help from others. But the every day average person should never expect anything from others and that IMO is FAR FAR more selfish than believing what you deserve comes down to only yourself and loved ones. Just because you believe you should be giving, does not mean you should be expecting to receive as well.

I agree that people in suffering, who had no choice of a better life, need help from just about anyone. But you, me, and probably everyone else on these forums should never feel that you deserve or expect from anyone. I'm speaking to a certain degree of course. There needs to be that small amount where people base lives on each other. But to honestly think you truly deserve something from others is a far more selfish view to me.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
Libervurto
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 00:45 Edited at: 5th Jun 2012 01:11
Quote: "Quote: "So stealing is okay if other people pay?"
Wow, that's just ridiculous. Who is stealing? NO ONE. The company is ALLOWING it because they are making loads of money. I don't think you are understanding that this is charity."

I meant in general, not talking about the humble bundle specifically.
It baffles me that you are happy for others to pay your way for a few games you don't need, but when it comes to your health you can't bear the thought of people helping with the costs of your surgery; they are both socialism, so why blot out the important one? I suppose there is a lack of propaganda about the evils of the humble bundle.

I'm getting a bit too political for this forum so I'll stop there.

@Redneck - I think we do actually agree to a point: We agree that people who are capable of providing for themselves shouldn't rely on others. Our disagreement is on the extent of the word "rely". I believe we can remain responsible for ourselves while receiving and giving support to each other as and when required. You seem to believe that any form of charity or support encourages dependence and laziness. In the minority of cases where that is true the benefits to society through providing equal opportunity far outweigh the burden of the idle few (who are just as idle given capitalism).

RedneckRambo
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 02:37
Quote: "I meant in general, not talking about the humble bundle specifically."

Ahhh I see but I don't think that's entirely related because when it comes to the humble bundle, I don't believe anyone is stealing anything. Of course I don't believe people could steal so long as others pay, but when the actual company themselves, whether they may not necessarily like it or not, but they say that they are allowed to, I will never see anything wrong with it.
Quote: "It baffles me that you are happy for others to pay your way for a few games you don't need, but when it comes to your health you can't bear the thought of people helping with the costs of your surgery; they are both socialism, so why blot out the important one? I suppose there is a lack of propaganda about the evils of the humble bundle."

I think you have slightly misunderstood me in that aspect. I probably wasn't explaining well. It's not that I can't bear the thought of people helping me, it's that I simply don't expect them to. I would gladly accept help from others, but I'm not going to be mad or upset with anyone who doesn't.

Quote: "@Redneck - I think we do actually agree to a point: We agree that people who are capable of providing for themselves shouldn't rely on others. Our disagreement is on the extent of the word "rely". I believe we can remain responsible for ourselves while receiving and giving support to each other as and when required. You seem to believe that any form of charity or support encourages dependence and laziness. In the minority of cases where that is true the benefits to society through providing equal opportunity far outweigh the burden of the idle few (who are just as idle given capitalism)."

We aren't too far off from each others' view. It's just to the extent of relying as you said, which I think is a completely reasonable different point of view.

I>Every single one of you

Have a nice day
Quik
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 09:10
for all them people saying :"It's ok to pay 1c cuz they say so"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zwANFc7D1ac#!

^ "You can pay very much, or you can pay very little, but if you pay very little you are a big jerk"


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 11:36
Meh. I figure if they offer it for as little as a penny there's nothing fundementally wrong with paying just a penny. I bought the first bundle for a penny if I remember right. The average purchase price benefits are quite nice though and I try to pay more when I can.

Quik
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 14:28
I just find it interesting that a bunch of developers pay so little for games, if they can.


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
Van B
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 14:50
I completed Limbo, damn challenging, and I'm glad that I didn't cheat - I was tempted of course, but found that just doing something else then coming back to it got me further and further. I only found 2 of those glowy things though, might have to redo it and try for 100%.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 15:30 Edited at: 5th Jun 2012 15:32
I have never heard of any of these games. I have started with Limbo. So easy to make a game like this in DBPro. I like the way it tells a story without actually telling you the story.

RedFlames
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 15:42
Quote: "I completed Limbo, damn challenging, and I'm glad that I didn't cheat - I was tempted of course, but found that just doing something else then coming back to it got me further and further. I only found 2 of those glowy things though, might have to redo it and try for 100%."

There are many achievements to find, atleast when playing it via Steam (I don't even know, how does that work without Steam? Can you play Limbo without using Steam?) and I did give up on the "Playthrough without dying more than 5 times" after many hours of cursing at the game It's been a few month since I played it, might try it again

Oh and now that Pincho mentions the story: Anyone have any theory about what actually happens to him towards the end? There are a few theories floating around on youtube, but nothing too clear about what to make of all this...
Van B
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 16:07
Limbo ending theory:


DBPro could easily handle Limbo, but the problem is that so many people have copied it, there are lots of Limbo style games now, it's pretty cheap to go for that silhoute style these days. Perhaps something like Limbo, but made from fuzzy felt would be cool - like that old Moomins animation series... there's nothing more sinister than fuzzy felt.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
RedFlames
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Posted: 5th Jun 2012 18:47

(isn't that fancy JPEG compression just beautiful? )

I know what I'll be wasting time on now... I already have 12 out of 13 achievements.

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