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FPSC Classic Models and Media / WIP Thread for New TGC Store Media

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KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 21st Jun 2012 16:49 Edited at: 21st Jun 2012 16:53
Hello

I`m currently working on a side project for FPSC and someone suggested I post a WIP thread here for comments and suggestions from the general community.

I`ve only started this today so its still early days. I`m aiming to create a versatile cave system for use with FPSC that breaks away from the blocks by using Static Entities.

Below is (hopefully) an in-game screenshot of what I have so far...



Any comments and suggestions on what you may like to see in such an environment are highly appreciated, as is any constructive criticism on existing media.

EDIT : This is just the basic section of tunnel. I plan to include things like rocks and underground vegetation (mossess, e.t.c) but it never hurts to seek new ideas early.

New PC Specifications : Intel Core i3 2.93Ghz. Windows Vista Ultimate. 4GB DDR3 RAM. ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT.

TGC Store Tag : Kasseyus (need to make a graphical sig one day)
Flatlander
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Posted: 21st Jun 2012 20:45
This will be great to have. I have as many cave models as I could get and the ones that are not block segments are really needed. I know there are some available but a whole model pack would be super. If I can think of any suggestions I'll be back.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
Cosmic Prophet
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2012 02:54
Looks pretty good, would like to see more as you get them done.

Back from the Wasteland.
The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2012 11:28
A non-block cave system would be great - especially if it features also sloping floors.

However to be able to generate maps without micro-editing every single piece is the general problem with non-block segments or entities.

For me to make something like that fully functionally, the single pieces must be alignable with the "b" key into an invisible grid, and each have overlapping ends that connect in a way that looks as seamless as possible.

I know that is a little muchI am asking for but the lack of these features is exactly what makes the cave sections from Model Pack 29 (Tropical Pack) more or less unusable to actually build a cave layout.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2012 12:37 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2012 12:40
Quote: "For me to make something like that fully functionally, the single pieces must be alignable with the "b" key into an invisible grid, and each have overlapping ends that connect in a way that looks as seamless as possible."


That's what it currently does. All the sections will lock to the large grid There are currently 3 sections in that screenshot above. The biggest challenge was to stop the player tripping over the seams but I managed to resolve that.

I hope to create these sections in such a way where you are not forced to place a single rock (unless you want too) but a section of rocks that fit perfectly with that section.. for example you place a floor piece(one click) and on that you place some rocks(one click) and then put the roof on(one click).

The individual things will of course be available for folks to tweak and make unique afterwards, but your basic cave system should be a lot easier to make.

I crated a 'link up' with existing segments where you can come through a door/hidden passage into the caves to allow it to be blended with existing maps and levels. (that door in the distance is a Stock WW2 door)

I`ve spent the last few hours improving textures and trying to get shaders to work.

Screenshot:


As can be seen, the textures are still a little fuzzy and the shaders are being totally uncooperative. I turned the texture quality up to maximum in the FPSC Preferences - does anyone know of a way to increase the resolution in the Test Game? My texture plates are 1024 but it just seems too pixelated when in-game... like the engine is reducing the texture quality for speed purposes.

EDIT : Sloping corridors and larger caverns are part of the plan also.. just as soon as I resolve these teething issues.

New PC Specifications : Intel Core i3 2.93Ghz. Windows Vista Ultimate. 4GB DDR3 RAM. ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT.

TGC Store Tag : Kasseyus (need to make a graphical sig one day)
Scene Commander
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2012 13:27 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2012 13:29
These look great, I've not real suggestions for features as you seem to have it all covered.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you also the author of the Cave/Mine offical model pack? If so, I'd like to see some additional texture variants that matched this pack with that one.

Also, I'm sure you've thought of it, but it's a good idea to test these types of segments with the Dark AI element of FPSC for compatability.

Best of luck and I look forward to seeing how this works out.

SC
KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2012 14:12 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2012 14:22
@Scene Commander
Yes - I did do that pack a few years ago. I remember it was one of my more popular packs.




I just had a go now and the standard doors from that pack match up rather well with the link-up entity from these new caves... so no problems there with compatibility. (also in this scene is the sloping corridor section to raise/lower levels.)

Getting enemies to work on these segments will be the true test. I will have to spend some time learning about that as I do not really do much in the way of enemies... I mostly concentrate on environments. My last best attempt at a humanoid enemy was the Cave Demon and he just uses a custom FPI script.

New PC Specifications : Intel Core i3 2.93Ghz. Windows Vista Ultimate. 4GB DDR3 RAM. ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT.

TGC Store Tag : Kasseyus (need to make a graphical sig one day)
The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2012 17:24
That sounds and looks very promising

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
Braden 713
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2012 17:31
Awesome, these look very cool so far. Media that can ultimately fit any genre is always invaluable. These will fit your TGC Store characters perfectly as well!

Looking forward to seeing this thread progress

Life would be much easier if I had the source code.
Shakleford
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2012 18:10
Looking very forward to these. I have all ur official modelpacks(cave, church, catacombs, and space derelict.(which is quite underrated.....such useful media that the screenshots dont do justice for.)

As for scenic model packs(non characters) yours are definately the ones which can be used in so many genres.

Ur definately my official model pack favorite. I hope to see alot more from you.

The cave, catacomb, and church packs could be used in level design with no other media, they fit perfectly.

I would also like to see more sci-fi based media in the future, The space derelict is such a useful pack(Perfect for a "Dulce base conspiracy game.)

I hope the increase of activity recently is a sign of more great model packs to come.

The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young
KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2012 21:41
Thank you for your comments Shakleford. Now that you mention it, I am currently working on more Sci-Fi stuff to go with the Space Derelict Pack. Aside from an upgrade to that pack itself (which should be available soon) I`m also designing a sequel, a WIP example of which can be seen below..




These Caves are proving problematic for me at the moment. I`ve spent a considerable amount of time trying to have enemies perform correctly but I`m coming to the conclusion that they cannot... at least not yet.

I`ll continue to work on them as I have always liked cave systems in games but when used within FPSC they will have to be 'enemy free'. At least for now. I will post more screen shots as soon as I have finished the rock debris and greenery parts.

New PC Specifications : Intel Core i3 2.93Ghz. Windows Vista Ultimate. 4GB DDR3 RAM. ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT.

TGC Store Tag : Kasseyus (need to make a graphical sig one day)
Shakleford
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Posted: 24th Jun 2012 04:22
That is awesome is to hear. Cant wait for the updrage to the space derelict. And going by that screenshot Ill be puchasing the follow up release day.

It appears have more of aan industial, or maintantence type look. Like basements, or maintence areas. Which is great.

If u dont mind some sugestions(if thats the style for the follow up ur going for). Maybe some sci fi looking boilers, generaters,electrical units,(Maybe something like anti-gravity based even( anything of that sort. I havent seen too many in Official FPSC packs. Thers some in the stock sci-fi, and a few from Cosmic sci fi stuff.

Whatever direction u go in, Im sure its gonna be on par, or exceed ur previous packs.

The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young
KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 24th Jun 2012 12:49
I`m always open to suggestions. As the Sci-Fi pack is still in development now is the best time to receive suggestions .

This area is planned to be an engineering section featuring everything you would want to see such as engines, pistons, cogs and various machinery.... also consoles and workstations. I`m hoping to include more weapons as well, both Melee and Ranged that you would expect to find in such an area like futuristic wrenches, plasma cutters.. things like that. I would love to include more aliens but I`m not that great at monsters yet. I need more practice on that. When I test my levels I usually use Bond1's last monster pack as they tend to lend an air of awesomeness to the scene.

I took a little break from sci-fi to work on the caves however as I find if I work too long on the same theme I start to stagnate. I like to mix it up a little. Once the caves are done I`ll close this thread and start a new one specifically for that pack.

New PC Specifications : Intel Core i3 2.93Ghz. Windows Vista Ultimate. 4GB DDR3 RAM. ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT.

TGC Store Tag : Kasseyus (need to make a graphical sig one day)
KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 24th Jun 2012 21:25 Edited at: 24th Jun 2012 21:31
Update to Caves.

Working with Caves in Editor


rolfy's Exploding Corridors (checking how it looked - it looked nice )


Cave sloping downwards (one level)



As soon as I have the basic layout for the core entities I can start on the finer details.

Also it seems that the FPSC NPCs have trouble navigating these corridors. I`m still messing with a workaround but until then these caves are a 'no enemy' zone. Best suited for escape tunnels, treasure caches and similar such things.

More will Follow

New PC Specifications : Intel Core i3 2.93Ghz. Windows Vista Ultimate. 4GB DDR3 RAM. ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT.

TGC Store Tag : Kasseyus (need to make a graphical sig one day)
Flatlander
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Posted: 24th Jun 2012 23:24
The enemy can also be placed in large bunkers or whatever that is connected by the tunnels. Also, I (being an RPG developer) would probably have characters that one could converse with.

I hope you can find a solution; but, if not, I can still see this as a worthwhile model pack.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
michael x
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 01:03
as good as the caves sound Im more happy to hear about the sci fi pack. I liking that pic of it. this is so cool.

more than what meets the eye

Welcome to SciFi Summer
Shakleford
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 17:04
If u dont wind up sorting out the NPC problem, you could also always make a worm or similar type creature using projectiles, or plants similar to the ones that attack you in Oblivion

The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young
Flatlander
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 17:13 Edited at: 26th Jun 2012 18:08
@Shakleford, that sounds great.

@Kasseyus,

There are probably several different types of cave dwellers that you could make that don't need to move. Or, perhaps your own cave type NPC that you can design that won't have the collision problems; but, what do I know about animation and collision?

BTW, Kasseyus, have you looked at this thread about collision and physics?

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
Shakleford
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 17:29
@ flatlander
I wsnt trying to be pushy or a begger for media. I hope it didnt come off like that. Kasseyus had just said this is the the time for suggestions. and Ive already talked to him in private about purchasing custom NPCs. I was just trying to give him ideas for his pack.

The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young
Flatlander
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 18:05
@Shakleford

I wasn't complaining, I thought your idea was great and I continued with the idea. Yes, I believe he is looking for more ideas. I'm going to edit my last post to be more understandable to whom I'm speaking.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
Shakleford
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 18:16
@ Flatlander
I was never good at interpretting peoples intentions on internet messages anyway dude. The oroiginal post probably just went right over my head.

The tragedy of old age is not that one is old, but that one is young
KasseyusAncient
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 20:01
@ Flatlander
Yes, I tried a few of the things shown there, but the techniques are more suited to flat terrains. I had my creatures chasing me through the tunnels at one point, but they occasionally kept hitting something and jumping up in mid-air... and staying there

I was considering either static enemies such as those in Oblivion as Shackleford mentioned or even flying entities such as Cave Bats or Screamers of Tzeentch (one of my old favourites)... then contact with the floor no longer matters.

A trade-off I did find was to place the entity roofs only on standard segment floors... those from the original cave pack for example, thus retaining the collision and free-motion of a solid floor but you loose the lovely detail in the entity floor and you loose the ability to make an easy gradient slope.

New PC Specifications : Intel Core i3 2.93Ghz. Windows Vista Ultimate. 4GB DDR3 RAM. ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT.

TGC Store Tag : Kasseyus (need to make a graphical sig one day)
Flatlander
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 21:40
Don't you just hate compromises.

Oh well. Whatever you come up with will be excellent.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
rolfy
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 22:02 Edited at: 26th Jun 2012 22:11
You need to keep the floor sections 100"x100".

Here's a step by step to making sections into segments.
Build your complete cave mesh, texture before slicing, try to work within exact segment sizes e.g. 300"x300" or say 400"x100".
Slice off the floor area on the horizontal (no higher than 40").
Slice the floor into sections 100"x100".
You should have 9 floor sections now, centre the pivot point for each mesh object, do not move them from their origin.
Export each mesh section and import into TGC's Segment Creator, if you did this right you will find that each mesh drops into seg creator in its correct position and matches up perfectly also retaining correct uv's and texture alignments.

Export the segment and try it out in FPSC you will find that there are now no collision problems with npc's.

Even a flying character needs floor collision as all your really doing is raising the rig and mesh, the problem with these kind of characters is that you may find the hit box for it is sitting around the floor pivot area but this can now be fixed with bone hit detection.

Awesome! Its one of those threads.
wizard of id
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2012 16:18 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2012 16:22
Aah Kasseyus, I found your thread.

Yeah def have a look at the caves I have done, to give you some idea and direction.

Still these caves are hardly perfect, and the enclosed ones still is going to have collision problems unless you add a floor in there.Then still AI seem to move off the segment floor.It is a pity as the enclosed ones were really nice.

But the best approach is what I did in cave 3 and recommend you have a look at them as well.As it contains just the cave shell and then you paint the floors normally.

basically this is what I did with cave 3.

1. Create 300 x 300 cubes and align them in the shape of the caves you want.

2.Use a boo-lean operation and join all the cubes together.

3.Turn your view so that the bottom of the cave cube stands point up

4. Add egdes on the bottom, and position them pending how wide you want your caves. 50 units on each side would give you a cave 200 units wide, basically two segments wide.1 segment unit wide is pushing a bit for collision.You basically drawing a block with in a block.

5.Select all faces in between the edges, with a polygon tool.If your 3d editor allows for it, it should, duplicate those faces you have selected and push those faces down to create your cave ceiling, 125 to 150 units looks good just above a normal segments in height

6.Delete all the outside faces except the bottom faces on either side of ceiling and walls you created. They are there for aligned in FPSC segment editor.

7.Bevel all vertical edges, move the 2 newly created point of both the ceiling and floor inwards a bit, units max

8. Deform your cave as you see fit.But stay with in the 300 X 300 area, also not too close to the bottom faces egdes as you will have alignment issues, bevel any newly created vertical corners.


9.Make sure all points are connected to one another, will allow for a smoother subdivide.


10. Save an additional copy of the cave somewhere, just in case some thing goes bad


11.Select all the inside faces except the two bottom faces, with a polygon tool and subdivide your cave 1 or 2 levels pending on how it looks, as smooth as possible with an eye on the poly count.

12.Fix up points in corners and where else needed.


13. Slice into 300 x 300 blocks, those bottom faces serves another purpose, as it gives you a guideline to slice by.Making sure all grid snapping,points and all those precise alignment tools are enabled, this will allow that each mesh is sliced perfectly.

What I normally do, I slice the cave into 4 or 5 parts, and duplicate the amount of times plus two spare ones I have to slice each part.So 23 blocks 23 duplicates, I have to do this, as my software deletes the section above the slice.

14.After slicing select the group of blocks and apply a uvmap it should allow the intersecting blocks uvmaps to be seamless.fix faces as needed.

15.Export to coordinates 0.0.0 and import into FPSC segment creator.Because of the mesh shape and having delete the unneeded faces moving the mesh around the editor will crash it.So by pass this by first importing a wall or cube first and placing it center in the editor, apply textures and settings, then replace the mesh with the first cave section and save as.

Without doing any thing else simply replace that mesh again with the second mesh and save as, do it with the 3rd and fourth and so and so, if the editor crashes you can simply import the first save cave file and replace the mesh again, each mesh will simply snap into the previous ones place if you followed the 300 x 300 and xyz coordinates.

oh just remember you can't save them as a room segment, so you will to use external segment and either over direct or overfull light mapping.

16.Your done your cave is complete, seamless, perfectly, aligned with least amount of trouble, now you can go work on those props.

This is hardly a tutorial, but just to give you some direction and to make things easier for your self , Not that my method is easier

Would have liked to give you a sample map that means uploading a 60mb file.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=196547&b=24

good luck I hope this helps you a lot, it is hard too explain some thing that is second nature to me

Just been chatting to my neighbours teenage daughter and it turns out she's big into UFOs and aliens.

Which is cool because tomorrow she's getting abducted.

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