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AppGameKit Classic Chat / SendHTTPRequest question

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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 24th Jun 2012 20:09
Does anyone know if the SendHTTPRequest, SendHTTPRequestAsync and SendHTTPFile commands process the szPostData data to properly encode it before sending it to the HTTP server?

Escaping the string means converting some characters to their ascii value in hex preceded by a '%'. For instance, a space becomes '%20' (without the quotes) and '/' becomes '%2F'.

This site discusses the issue: http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/topics/urlencoding.htm

It becomes important when you are trying to send a game player's name to the high score site (I'm handling the high score bits on my own server).

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 24th Jun 2012 20:31
I just ran a test and the answer to my question is 'No'.

So, we must manually check any postdata to make sure that it is properly encoded.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Paul Johnston
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 03:37
You are correct, AppGameKit does not modify the post data in any way when sending it to the server.
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 17:11
Properly encoding the variable data might be a good idea.

It's standard practice (or should be) for AJAX calls on websites to ensure that the data is processed correctly. Spaces are a particular problem. Other special characters can definitely be a problem.

Having said that, my first tests with registering a player name (for my WIP game) worked fine with the space. But it was running only on my local network. Not sure how it will fare in the big web world. I'll probably be testing that in the next few days.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Paul Johnston
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 17:27
The only problems I've encountered is if you want to send a PHP script variable that contains a & or = character, since those are the variable separators. Unfortunately the way AppGameKit receives the post data it isn't possible to know if a stray & or = character is meant to be encoded or is an actual separator.
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 17:34
Very true. Those particular characters should be encoded by the programmer before sending.

I had thought of them after I posted my last message. I know, from long experience, the difficulty of parsing randomish strings created by people who don't know the rules.

It's too bad we can't pass arrays into functions, that would make it easy to create one with sets of parameter names and values. Then it would be easyish to parse the values and fix them.

Yup, I'm definitely switching to Tier 2 after I finish my current project.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Funnell7
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 17:58
When I obtain my leaderboard, its all in one huge string with names and scores seperated by '|' and ending with '!'. Because of this, I need to make sure no special characters are being used when they submit their name... To do this, once they have updated their name, I check each character and take out any special characters, i.e. D!/A|? N would become DAN... This seems to work well, however the only character I couldn't prevent was " as the compiler didn't like me coding """...
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 18:53
You can encode any characters you want by replacing it with the hex representation of the ASCII value.

For example (ones that really need to be encoded):


Cheers,
Ancient Lady
bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 19:05
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 19:15
Excellent!

I was just starting on the code to allow building a proper string and your code will definitely help.

I was going to convert from some PHP code, but starting with dbp is much easier for working in AppGameKit tier 1.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Greenster
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 20:40
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/ref_urlencode.asp

lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill?

can't wait till we can set custom headers so this works with the majority of the web apis..
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 21:10
Greenster, I'm just trying to set up my web connects using best practices.

I've been doing web sites for myself and clients for many years.

Obviously, when using PHP and Javascript, I have access to functions that encode things correctly.

I've completed the code I need to encode things (using a variant of Jerico2day's code) and am happy with the result.

I started this thread because I had a question and then realized that I could test it myself, and did.

But, it is not impossible that someone not savy enough in doing web stuff will try something that gets them a strange result. Although, if they don't know enough to do the server side coding, they probably won't be using the http stuff for custom things very often.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
JimHawkins
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Posted: 25th Jun 2012 23:57
@Ancient Lady:

Quote: "Yup, I'm definitely switching to Tier 2 after I finish my current project."


Maybe you could try AppGameKit for Pascal - or Tier 3, as I call it!

-- Jim
MarcoBruti
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 00:08
I call for having Tier-1 functions that work well, including HTTP ones. We cannot hope people stay with AppGameKit only for Tier-2 or 3, to program something a little serious in C++ or Java (and I suppose ObjectiveC, but Apple for me is "keep out", it's the new Microsoft with more elegant and expensive gadgets), it takes months and hugh efforts. For people whose normal job is not programming, is out of scope.
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 01:02
JimHawkins, I'd be able to do the same 'code once', port many as Tier 1 and Tier 2?

If so, I just might need to dust off my Pascal skills (it's been a long time).

MarcoBruti, I have no intention about working in ObjectiveC for now.

I've had it explained that the same C++ files that I build in Visual Studio, will also build in Xcode and the Android environment. So, no Java or Objective C needed (for AppGameKit anyway).

But you are right about having the Tier 1 functions work.

My issue with the HTTP ones doing encoding is one I thought of because I do a lot of web work (after 20 years in the satellite business, sigh....).

As the current HTTP commands are, it would be very hard to build the code that supports them to properly encode the data passed. It is hard to tell whether an equal sign is meant to be for new data or is part of the data. I put together the following set of code to allow 'fixing' the way I want it. (Not elegant, but it works.)


Usage example:


Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 01:07
Jerico2day, I simplified your function somewhat. I shortened the character check and let it encode more than absolutely necessary. Encoding a character that doesn't absolutely need it is not a problem.

In retrospect, the actual encoding of unneeded ones is probably taking more time than the more complex if statement.

Oh, well, it works. Thank you for the starting point!

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
JimHawkins
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 01:22
Marco - you're right. But sometimes things which appear harder are actually easier! Here's a simple Pascal function to make a conformant URL:



Obviously, it's easy to make this a more sophisticated function to deal with everything possible, but when that's done you never need to think about it again!

-- Jim
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 01:30
JimHawkins, it is actually the arguments added to the url that need to be encoded. But thank you for reminding me about some of the niceness of Pascal.

Unless someone does something very wrong, the actual site/page url should be clean. Spaces are not allowed in domain names, and anyone who puts spaces in a file name used on a web site should be shot.

Personally, I hate spaces in any file or directory name as well. It is a royal pain using them in *nix environments. Putting quotes around a directory/file name is ugly!

MarcoBruti, the Apple Macintosh came out before the first Windows machine by many years. And they were even in the lead in personal computers. This is a great (funny) history of the PC world (all flavors): http://dotnetmasters.com/HistoryOfMicroprocessor.htm

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
JimHawkins
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 01:57
Special One: I realise that, but I was simply trying to show how nice and readable the Pascal can be! Fixing up the parameter string isn't a big problem, but why are we trying to send a bad parameter string in the first place?

I think (know?) that the Pet and Apple ][ came out well before the first Macintosh - but let's not start a history war!

-- Jim
MarcoBruti
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 11:39
@AncientLady.
Maybe I am more "ancient" than you.
The MAC is younger than 8086-8888 PC machine. Apple II is older of course. Please do not confuse the OSes with the underlying hardware.
PC started with PC-DOS/MS-DOS, no Windows existed. Windows came later after MAC, but the PC worked with the DOS-based OS.
The first almost serious Windows has been Windows 3.1, with a cooperative multitasking that was not a real multi-tasking, at the end-
I have been programming in the late '80s with Turbo Pascal, Turbo C, Turbo Prolog, Quick Basic, GW-Basic and Microsoft Assembler, (with or without IDE) using only the ASCII DOS interface.
I lived very well without Windows and gadget, I like the Linux bash interface.
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 18:57
@JimHawkins.
Awww, blush. I know, but the OC side of me can't help commenting on things.

Quote: "why are we trying to send a bad parameter string in the first place?"

When you cannot control exactly what a user enters, you need to be able to fix it. This goes back to creating/managing web sites with a wide variety of people using them. I do not want to restrict the characters my game players use in their player names.

@MarcoBruti.
I did not mean to start a war about OS/hardware versions, just that Apple had the first public PC out.

And I certainly don't want to start 'seniority' battles. Totally irrelevant. As long as one knows how to program, that is all that counts. The other experience just helps us help others.

I was doing bios level Assembly programming on IBM PCs (and ATs) back when it was DOS. My first IBM PC was one with a 5 1/4" floppy and a 5MB hard drive, back in 1983. And I started selling them and PC compatibles (with upgraded V20 processors and other customizations) in 1984. Somewhere else in this site, I think I list all my languages and some of the platforms I've used.

I remember the first time learning to work with a mouse and swearing at Windows. But I've come to enjoy using a mouse to point, click, select, etc.. But I hate mouse pads!

I also remember doing coding with punch cards and swearing every time I mistyped something and had to start with a fresh card.

I think JimHawkins is our most senior member (he admitted his age, once). And he has the absolute best creds posted on this site! (Don't ask me where, it was some ramble in some unassociated thread.) Technically, he is just old enough to theoretically be my father, if he procreated at a young age.

I work with whatever computer I have at hand. Currently it includes Windows, Mac and Linux.

Macs are somewhat easier to install stuff and sorta configure. But they don't have the flexibility to really tweak the crap out of stuff that I get with my Windows and Linux machines. But, the Mac and Linux boxes don't spontaneously reboot two or three times a week like my Windows boxes do (except the laptop, oddly).

Every platform has its ups and downs (and we hate the down times).

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Greenster
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 21:16
Can't this be done with an array or csv and the well documented percent encoding with string replace? It's identical across encodings and platforms..

You'd think things like the lack of custom header settings, which is a prerequisite to almost every mainstream HTTP API, would be higher priority, especially for the mobile market that is all about networking through media and solutions..
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 21:27
Greenstar, the AppGameKit guys may not have a lot of experience with web stuff.

Or, as this is new to TGC bits (I think), it just hasn't caught up with the way seasoned web programmers think.

It's not meant to be a heavy duty HTTP API, just a simple thing at this point. The HTTP stuff is not the primary purpose/goal of AGK.

Also, you cannot pass arrays in Tier 1. And there are no Tier 1 string replace functions. Which is why I made the code set I posted earlier.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
Funnell7
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 21:39
I think I am way out of my depth in this conversation, but what do you mean by:

Quote: "And there are no Tier 1 string replace functions."


I have some code which checks each individual character, once the user has updated their name. I then strip out all the special characters before doing SendHttpRequestASync()... This way no special characters are ever sent to the server...
Paul Johnston
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 21:42
Quote: "custom header settings, which is a prerequisite to almost every mainstream HTTP API"


What sort of functionality requires custom headers? In my brief time coding with PHP I've only ever had to set a custom header when uploading a file, which AppGameKit has special commands for anyway. There didn't seem much point spending time on custom header commands if no one needed to use them.
JimHawkins
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 22:30 Edited at: 26th Jun 2012 22:33
Quote: ""he is just old enough to theoretically be my father...""
Does that mean I'm too old to be your lover? Damn.

Quote: "The first successfully mass marketed personal computer was the Commodore PET introduced in January 1977. It was soon followed by the Apple II (usually referred to as the "Apple") in June 1977"

Wiki

I hate users, mouse pads, and touch screens, for the following reasons:

* programs always work until you have users. They do things like like clicking very fast on a button about a thousand times, changing the IP address of the server and saying the software isn't working, and cannot either literally or figuratively see the sheer beauty and elegance of your code. Then you have to mess your code up to stop them doing stupid things. You then find that you've stopped them doing anything, even, unlikely though it is, something sensible.

* mouse pads are just awful. I deleted about two hours worth of work once on a train because it rattled over some points when I had my finger over the wrong place.

* I absolutely loathe the current obsession with touch screens. The mouse was designed to be more or less pixel-accurate. Touch-screens mean plonking a huge splot of fingertip with all the accuracy of an elephant treading on a flower garden. I've got a Galaxy S mobile - mobile of the year last year. Hate it. Takes about 300 goes to type a phone number, screen gets covered in greasy finger crap, and it'll decide to sleep just when I've managed to hit the correct sequence of nasty little icons to get some info into it. Only the sad recognition that the day-job requires providing elephant-precision interfaces makes me bother at all. I'd probably make more money selling designer screen-wipes for iPads (very expensive) and slightly less pretty ones for Android (huge and confusing variety of sizes), and obviously there's a big upcoming market for Surface wipes designed in two shades for x86 and Arm models.

I've lived through quite a lot of the personal computer age. Some of it's been exciting (like producing the first audio digitiser for the Amiga), some of it's been useful (for writing screenplays and stories), and for the last couple of decades immensely frustrating to find that 99% of programming time is spent fighting the operating system - a beast so vast and intertwined that not even the system programmers seem to understand it!

I feel a bit sorry for Lee and Paul when people moan on about instabilities. The target is constantly moving. Computers are now fashion items, rather than tools.

In the UK at least, I was one of the first writers to use a computer. But when I go to Greece for a few weeks shortly I'll be taking a netbook with a USB mouse to deal with essential email, and for writing I'll use the amazing, soon to be lost, 2000-year old technology of paper and pen. So far, I've never had a pile of paper run out of battery.

Sorry about the possibly geriatric rant. Oh - maybe I'm not. Ranting, I mean. Geriatric - probably

-- Jim
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 22:43
Quote: "Does that mean I'm too old to be your lover? Damn."

Well, I did say technically. In my family, age seems not to be much of an issue. My step-mother is younger than my younger brother's wife and way too young to be my mother (we get along great).

But I am a happily married woman and a good girl (most of the time). So, being lovers is probably not in the plan. As I say on job offers I don't accept, but thank you for your interest.

And I totally agree on all your other points. Especially about users!

I've many a rant on the same topics in other situations.

Despite the original question for this thread, I'm actually very happy with the HTTP functions I've used so far. They work very quickly with my site (something I was concerned about).

Once I go Tier 2, I'll have some nice class built for handling all the encoding and other bits.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
JimHawkins
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Posted: 26th Jun 2012 23:06
Indeed, the HTTP functions do work, if everything is fine. But they have no error reporting at all. This should not be!

-- Jim
MarcoBruti
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Posted: 27th Jun 2012 00:00
@Ancient Lady:
the problem is not who is older or who knows more languages than others.
The issue to say right things: Apple II is not a PC, but more or less an home computer. PC programming started with DOS and GW-Basic. I started at 14 with a TI99/4A as many other boys started with ZX Spectrum, C64, VIC20, MSX and others. Sorry to say that, but TI99/4A is one of the worst home computer ever produced in the world, but it let me enter the computer worlds. So thanks a lot to TI, always in my mind.
Then at 16 I started programming with IBM PC at my father's office, and I began with ASCII and CGA games.
At the university I put my hands in PC too, and in my IBM Aptiva (2000) I replaced almost everything except the ORIGINAL IBM motherboard.
Try to do the same NOW with Apple things, and, apart guarantee expiration, I think that you cannot do anything. Apples prevents you from doing anything, inclusive battery replacement. It's a closed world.
I hate the fact to program apps for iOS you have to buy a MAC, it simply foolish. But it is my thought, I do not want to go against Apple religion. iPOD is a simple MP3 player, I had a lot of MP3 player, never felt the need to have an iPOD, the same for iMAC, iPad, iXXX...
JimHawkins
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Posted: 27th Jun 2012 00:18
Marco - what is a PC if it's not a home computer? What's the difference?

-- Jim
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Posted: 27th Jun 2012 00:46
PC stands for Personal Computer. AppleII is a personal computer, but universally PC is synonym of IBM PC, which gave birth to all dinasty of Intel-Based PC XT, AT, compatibles. Home computers are less powerful...computers with generally 8 bit microprocessor (generally Z80 or 6502/6510 for Commodore), TI99, C64, VIC20, etc.
IBM was born in 1981, Apple II in 1977. The latter is based on 8 bit 65xx processor. Apple II was a closed architecture (as usual for Apple things), while IBM PC was made of standard components and open architecture, and it is universally recognized as the reason of huge success.
IBM was 16 bit, so it is more powerful that Apple II (and successors).
The Apple computer that can be compared to PC is the Mac that it is better than a PC, but, unfortunately, the closed nature took Apple near to bankruptcy. Microsoft saved Apple (this is history), and then Jobs (glory to an artistic an marketing genius) took his revenge.
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 27th Jun 2012 01:10
Marco, I was using PC in the generic term of personal computer. I actually resent IBM for practically copy writing the term.

What IBM did do right from the beginning was allow for an open box architecture that let people play around inside it. My first IBM PC had a Plantronics Colorplus graphics card so that I could get 16 colors in 320x200 resolution and 4 colors in 640x200. They were one of the first add-on cards for IBM PCs. (You can find it listed in wikipedia with a link to their original ad, quite amusing by today's standards.)

And I agree about the inflexibility of Apple products. I enjoy building my own computers from scrap. But a lot of people who aren't in the same class as us in terms of computer capability have an easy time using Apple products. So, it has its place as well.

I actually didn't discover computers until I went to college (1977). And discovered that I quite enjoyed making them do things (even if I did have to punch a lot of cards). Most of my early experience was on university mainframes. There wasn't a PC-like device anywhere in existence in that environment. I had no idea that I was ending up in a great field. I thought I was just having fun.

I think Linux based computers bring the best of both worlds together. You can build just about any configuration and it is quite stable.

I, too, wish it were possible to create aps for Apple without a Macintosh. Especially now that they are using the same intel processors. But, Apple is one of the big boys and they have the clout to enforce whatever they want (as long as people keep buying their products).

Quote: "but it let me enter the computer worlds"

And any computer that lets anyone discover the fun of programming is not bad. No matter how deficient it is. If it motivates someone, than it is good.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
JimHawkins
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Posted: 27th Jun 2012 11:04
Marco - to say that the Apple ][ was "closed architecture" is complete nonsense. It had six expansion slots. You could, for example, plug in a Z80 board and run CP/M, or floppy and hard disk controllers, enhanced graphics boards, or the highly advanced AlphaCentauri synthesiser. I did all of these things!

The first IBM PC was 8088-based, with an 8-bit data bus, and used paged memory. It's graphics capabilities were dire.

-- Jim
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 27th Jun 2012 17:08
Quote: "It's graphics capabilities were dire."


Yup, that is why my ex insisted on the Plantronics ColorPlus card.

I had fun programming for that card. But it didn't 'take' very well and IBM improved the graphics on the XT.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
JimHawkins
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Posted: 27th Jun 2012 21:16 Edited at: 27th Jun 2012 21:21
Those graphics boards were lethally expensive, and basically most of them were utter drek. Like £500 for some smeary, badly-coloured old crap. the Plantronics board could do an amazing 16 colours at 320x200 resolution, and 4 at 6040x200.

I was at the UK Amiga launch for developers in 1985 in Eastbourne. We watched a demonstration of De Luxe Paint, with the famous King Tut graphic being manipulated in real-time, and there was a five minute standing ovation. 4096 colours! Absolutely nothing could get within light years of it. The first Amiga 1000 machines were £850 to developers - and we got a heavy bag of manuals - the Rom Kernel Manual, the Amiga DOS manual etc. Most of the US development team were there, and the young ones managed (how I don't know - I doubt if Eastbourne is the drug capital of the Western World) to get well-stoned overnight.

Fairly well-substantiated rumour has it that Apple executives were going to the bathroom every ten minutes, because the Amiga could do a hell of a lot more than the Mac. However, with its legendary ability to get things wrong, Commodore decided to ignore the business potential of a computer that could utterly out-perform the IBM PC and the Mac for beautiful animated graphs and presentations, had 4 channel stereo sound capabilities built in, looked pretty, (utterly unlike a clunky PC)... and so on. Oh the joy! Oh, ultimately, the sadness.

-- Jim
MarcoBruti
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Posted: 28th Jun 2012 01:41
I see that you are big hacker...unfortunately the TI99 add-ons were extremely expensive, so I had to work with the home computer, the cassette recorder and even the 32K RAM expansion.
But I fear that we lost into details. The concepts are simpler.
Apple II clones had not success because Apple produced the next generation AppleII (e/c) with custom chips, so other vendors could not produce the clones of the new models. I read this in Wikipedia, and I remember some "Lemon II" clones of apples, that had not a very long life.
This shows the proprietary approach of Apple.
Amiga (and AtariST created by Jack Tramiel, recently dead) are excellent computers, but PC were successful, they spread from the offices to the home thanks to the "off-shelf" components used. And in fact IBM attempt to sell a new PC architecture based on the proprietary "Microchannel" was a complete failure.
This to show you that Apple has success that relies on big spending and, to say the truth, in many cases not particular advanced people in term of IT skills that make a large mass of "cows to be milked". I have got a lot of examples in my corporation and outside
Product from Apple (iPod, iPad, iPhone) are not particularly better than Nokia, Samsung, RIM, ecc, but Jobs did an excellent work to make fishes eat the bait and remain stuck into the expensive Apple world. I am not sure that that trend will last...
Ancient Lady
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Posted: 28th Jun 2012 17:25
Quote: "I am not sure that that trend will last.."

I suspect you are correct. Some of the newer Android based devices certainly will give them a run for their money. The Android phones are already taking a big chunk out of the iPhone market.

The Microsoft Surface has potential. We'll see what the selling price is. My bet is that that will be the deciding factor.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady

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