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I've been working for years now in hotels as a cleaner. I had always been an employee of the company and it suited me greatly.

I started in Melbourne Victoria, Australia and all the jobs were full time hours on casual pay or full time if you wanted it(I didnt at that time - i liked to party )

I then moved to Queensland Australia and notice that the majority of hotel housekeeping positions were subcontractor work rather than employee.

I only found one that was still offering employee status which is the one I went with.

now that company has sold the property and the new one coming in... you guessed it, sub contractor work.

It may seem like im being picky and winging but the reality is,


In my job I am paid by the hour and I have 30 minutes to clean a hotel room.
often they are trashed and they take longer. no problem it takes longer,i just show a supervisor and do it anyway.
I receive sick pay, annual leave, lunch, super anuation and eventually long service leave.

pretty good deal.

as a subcontractor I get paid per room. if it takes longer then tough. the room rate is based upon 25 minutes a room. after expenses and super I receive about $6 a room, or $12.00 an hour before tax. That's if I get the room done in 25 minutes -which I cant.
That wage is terrible. and I have to be my own businessman for doing a hard crappy job for bad pay...
Its just not worth it and our entire staff have left bar 3 who haven't found another job yet. I'm changing industries.


I was chatting to my brother who is still down in Victoria and he said that its happening down there too now.

I was wondering if this is a worldwide trend or whether its just Australia.

Its a worrying sign of the times when company's begin strangling the people who are actually doing the hard work for their profits.

I understand they need to make ends meet, but they're chopping the wrong end of the stick.

Hows things in your countries?

It's happening here in the States too. I don't really have a problem with it. I'm a contractor myself and also a small business owner. I understand why companies go to sub-contracting rather than having employees. This is one of those threads that's gonna get political, that's the reality of it.

To keep the politics to a minimum and the response short...when gov't dictates that businesses jump through more and more hoops per employee via regulations/taxes/&&c it becomes cheaper and easier to just contract tasks out. Add to that if a company doesn't need a specific service (like computer repairs) it's often cheaper to contract it out. This also sometimes applies to things like offices and office equipment.

Forgot to add....
I'm an industrialist in the mindset of men like Carnegie. If I had a large company I'd rather have nothing but employees and control my entire operation from raw materials to retail; and have everything I could here in the States. However, the current business climate being driven by gov't leads me to say "screw that", it's cheaper and less of a hassle to just contract everything I can out to cheap labor in China or India or find a way to automate it.

cheers for your response mate.

yeah, I don't want a political flame war. I'm just curious how far this is spreading and how fast.

It seems that we are witnessing the extinction of the employee system.
Its a big change.

I would have no issue with being a sub contractor if the income were worth the stress of being self employed.

A fair days pay for a fair days work.

sorry for double post but...

I hear ya man. I do not envy anyone running their own business. Our hotel is replacing us with backpackers who don't need super, dont earn enough to pay tax, are only here for a little while.

I really do feel for small businessmen who are expected to keep up with big corporations in terms of employee benefits.

the price people are willing to pay seems miniscule when compared to the cost of providing the service.

The interesting point is that things need to change so radically from our current model in order to be sustainable. how long has this been running in deficit?

this is not a how to fix it thread, this is a documentation of the reality of the change that is taking place.

please add to this archive, you are all part of it.

again not a political debate, just a documentation of a trend.

Well it goes with logic and my own religious beliefs that you should help your employees better themselves and ensure they are cared for to a certain extent. Happy and healthy workers are more productive. Just take Henry Ford as an example.
Ford offered a program where workers could take higher-than-market wages if they agreed to random inspections of their houses and personal affairs. Ford wanted to make sure that the workers weren't getting drunk and whatnot before work, that they weren't squandering their wages, and that they were taking care of their families and houses. Many people, whose affiliations shall remain unsaid, thought this to be horrible and an invasion of privacy. Well, in the end workers got higher wages and Ford got higher productivity and better quality...a win-win all without unions mucking things up and getting rich off the deal.

Forgot...something I wanted to comment on earlier.

Have you been in a management position before? Just because you may not be getting dirty or dinging your knuckles up doesn't mean you have any easier of a time than the guy who is.
From my experience I spent much more time at work and less time sleeping when I was managing as an NCO than when I was a lowly Airman. I may not have been flinging supplies and equipment around the "basement" area of the aircraft and whatnot; but I was the poor sap whose butt was on the line when something went wrong. I also spent a lot more time at work than when I was an airman. I was the guy who got calls at nutty hours when problems popped up. And when my airmen couldn't figure a problem out I had to go out to the aircraft to figure it out...my sleep or lunch be damned. And when paperwork came around for one of my airmen getting in trouble, I got the harsher note while they usually didn't; because I did what a manager is supposed to do...take the heat and handle their subordinates later.

I had the same outlook you APPEAR to have by your comment - until I was the the guy in management. Even if a CEO or whatever doesn't spend a lot of time at work, it's their butt up in front of a court or political body explaining things. Just look at Toyota and the US congress as an example. It wasn't the assembly line guys up there, it was the CEO.

@natholio - I do not contest you. both of your posts speak with wisdom, clarity and experience.


I in no way imply that a manager is not "getting their knuckles dirty"

My general role in an organization is second or third in command. I start as a low end employee and earn cred as a valued worker who can bare responsibility. I listen to my managers point of view, identify with it, accept extra responsibility because I care about them and the end goal of my company(yes i am an employee who cares about the general outcome of the company).

My position is not that of a crying winge who cannot accept the responsibility of the employment that has been bestowed upon them. my issue is clearly far removed from your position of management which seems evenhanded.

politics\
my position is that there is a difference between the accepted cost of cleaning a hotel room, and the price that is accepted by a hotel chain manager for the cost of a hotel room, as priced by them.(this is very specific to one particular industry which i am very knowledgeable and familiar with to a departmental degree)
/politics.

I am not arguing with you as a businessman, or a small business owner. I can completely Identify that your original post clearly outlines your position clearly, in both your mind and my own.

I am not disputing the reasoning for a business to move toward subcontractor employment.

I am merely curious as to the state of the change over.

for the record, I am emotional on the subject. I do not want this to be political. Natholio, i do not contest your argument.

any actual beneficial argument will be based on an individual basis per case.

It is clear that my case with my employer is different to your employees experience working under you.
If it were the same, all of your employees would leave.

Long story short, a multinational company has used this approach to shortchange it's lowest level workers. fullstop.
this is the nature of my reality at this point. this is not the aim of my thread.

What is happening to the people at my workplace IS NOT FAIR.

this is not the point of my thread or my argument.

I will not lie...
my team has been shafted, if you disagree, try cleaning a hotel room for 6 dollars and see how you feel.

This is not my aim for this thread. by all means speak your mind.

again i emphasis that my aim is to see how business is dealing with its low end employees on a global setting.

You have heard me flap my gums.

I do not want to argue, just tell me the industry you are in and the state of its employee relations.

@natholio - I am not anti boss or anti self employment. This is about seeing where the world is at and guaging my position within it.
thankyou for reading.
kezzla