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Geek Culture / Phenom II X4 955 Zalman 9500 - almost overheating

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Isocadia
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 01:37
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Today I had nothing to do, so I thought I would just see how my computer temperatures were performing. I fired up CPUID Hardware Monitor and using prime95 I found out that the temperature of my CPU was hoovering around 59-60 degrees celsius. I'm using a Zalman 9500, thought I'm not sure which version. It looks like aluminium and it has a green LED. Anyway, from what I can tell from posts on the internet, that even with a stock cooler they don't go above 55 degrees celsius. Could the cause be the thermal paste ( I used the one zalman gave me with the cooler ) or could the airflow be this bad? I have an Antec 902 all fan slots taken all maxed out and the only thing really in the way is de HDD, which is a samsung Spinpoint f3 (eco edition I believe ).

I was thinking about trying to overclock, but seeing these temperatures, I think I'm first gonna try to fix those....

PS: I have Cool 'n Quiet disabled, and I've set all the other fan options my ASUS M4N98TD EVO board gives me to performance.
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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 01:57
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Quote: "I have Cool 'n Quiet disabled"


If I understand correctly, this makes the CPU run flat out at all times, so it's bound to get pretty damn hot.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Isocadia
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 10:14
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Well, I've got it disabled and it still idles at 37 degrees celsius, and only gets to 60 degrees when I stress test, so apparently it does something else
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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 15:20 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 15:46
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Cool n quiet means reduced power and lower fan spped... Thats what Indicium was saying...

But 55-60 is average so you got nothing to worry about... My 2500 i5 does anywhere from 26 to 69 and thats because I reduced the fan speeds by 25% meaning they can only use 75% of their maximum power and speed... And the chip burn out temp is something aroun 90-105°C so do not worry about it just check your chips max temp and stay at least 10°C below that... Meaning do not go higher than 10°C below the top peak temp...

EDIT

Typo in bold

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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 15:21
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Grrr... Mailback...

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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 15:27
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arctic-Cooling-Freezer-Rev-2-Cooler/dp/B002G392ZI

I bought this cooler and my CPU idles at 30 degrees, granted it's only an Athlon (X4 640 @ 3.0 ). But maybe there is little or too much thermal paste on the chip?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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TheComet
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 16:08
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Quote: "But 55-60 is average so you got nothing to worry about... My 2500 i5 does anywhere from 26 to 69 and thats because I reduced the fan speeds by 25% meaning they can only use 75% of their maximum power and speed... And the chip burn out temp is something aroun 90-105°C so do not worry about it just check your chips max temp and stay at least 10°C below that... Meaning do not go higher than 10°C beliw the top peak temp..."


You're using an Intel CPU. They aren't the same as an AMD CPU. The Phenom II x4 955 has a maximum temperature of 62°C if I recall correctly.

TheComet


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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 16:12
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Quote: "You're using an Intel CPU. They aren't the same as an AMD CPU. The Phenom II x4 955 has a maximum temperature of 62°C if I recall correctly."


[silently giggles]



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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 16:43
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Quote: "[silently giggles]"


Depends what way you look at it Valentine. You could see it as yes, AMD CPU's have a low heat threshold, or you could see it as, yes, Intel need a high heat threshold.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 16:53 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 15:45
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Quote: "You could see it as yes, AMD CPU's have a low heat threshold, or you could see it as, yes, Intel need a high heat threshold. "


well considering Computers are used in all sorts of places, I doubt you could keep it cooler than 62*C in lets say a searing hot dessert where that upper threshold would be a life saver...

usually A is not what B is meant to be as C is there for its purpose XD

but yeah I left the AMD bandwagon a long time ago, never ever had an issue with Intel processors way back to the Celeron 433 [1997-1998]

EDIT

Typo i for I, also just saying... but some places have room temporatures as high as 50*C because it is 50*C outside...

EDIT

Did a mmod play trickery with my post? I am pretty sure I changed that 5 up there haha...

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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 17:02
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Quote: "80*C outside."


BS. It's never been that hot anywhere.

If you're taking your computer into a desert then yeah, get an Intel CPU. But you're paying more for it.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 17:20 Edited at: 12th Jul 2012 17:22
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woops meant to say 50*C lol but still Intel is what you pay for is what you get >.< haha Indicium anyway... where have you been hiding again?

EDIT

Typo in bold, Man I knew this week was going to be full of typos...

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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 18:58
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Quote: "Intel is what you pay for is what you get "


So is AMD. You pay for a mid-range CPU, you get a mid-range CPU. With Intel, you pay for a high-end CPU and get one.

Quote: "where have you been hiding again?"

Never went anywhere.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 19:04
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so this 955 is a low end chip? I never understood AMD's marking system not AMD's they seem to go back and forward with their numbers, thats the feeling I get lol

Well I barely see you on the Forums recently, I try my best but I may bissappear for a bit soon too because of my tutorial videos project...

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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 19:07
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I'd say it's fairly mid-range as far as processors go. I'm sure some will disagree, but when you compare it to the i7 range.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 19:13
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Wow if that is what AMD considers a mid range... Glad I pay what I get for >_<

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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 19:46
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I don't understand what you're saying. It's at the top end of what AMD produce, but in the grand scheme of things it's a mid-range CPU. It's £80. Whereas an i7 costs £180+.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2012 19:55
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Hmm... Oh well I dont want to turn this into brand wars lol...

But so your peak heating issue is how bad¿

You could crank your fan speeds up... But be careful of wear and erm destruction...

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TheComet
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 10:54
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AMD CPUs price to performance ratio is far better than Intel. Sure they don't make top quality CPUs, but let's be honest, do you really need one? Everyone today seems to think that high end games require a good CPU but it's really the GPU you should be investing in. Seriously, run BF3 and look at your task manager. I get 8% CPU usage at maximum where the GPU is at 98%


However, if we're talking about things like video editing, that's when you need to invest more money into the CPU and less into the GPU.

TheComet


TimePlan : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmuAKJolqASndEVYOWMxb3l2OWV0UkV1anRSczZScHc
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Isocadia
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 11:11 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 12:02
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I bought this before the newer intels came out , back in the days when the highest i7 was still 1000 euros xD, so I guess that back then this still was a pretty good choice ( though I kinda envy the new cheap i7's intel makes )

Anyway, so cool n quiet basicly means power down the cpu to reduce fan speeds?

Also, I've run the test and HWMonitor showed that the highest fan speed when at 56 degrees was 2350 rpm. Where would I increase these and does is really affect that much, a few rpm more?

The thing is that it idles around 35 degrees, which I think is a really nice place to idle for an AMD, the problem that instead of going up bij 13 degrees when stressed ( which seems the normal case ) mine goes up 23 degrees. I'm gonna look and see if somethings wrong with the fan itself, maybe try to get a look at the thermal paste.

Also, I don't know exactly if I've pointed it the right way, cause I don't really know which way the fan is blowing. Does the fan suck or does it blow air trough the cooling fins? Because right now it's mounted with the fan facing towards the rear exhaust ( assuming it sucks the air trough ).

Edit: Note about temperatures, my thermometer was measuring 19 degrees and it maxed out at 56, when measuring 23 degrees it measured 59-60. Just so you know, room temperatures aren't exactly above normal here in the netherlands

Edit: Alright, I've got my fan setup the wrong way, so now both the exhaust and the CPU fan are trying to suck air from the same place....
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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 12:53 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 12:54
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the cpu fan should blow to the exhaust fan which should blow out.

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Indicium
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 13:53
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Quote: "However, if we're talking about things like video editing, that's when you need to invest more money into the CPU and less into the GPU."


I really don't understand this. (I know it's true, of course.) If modern GPU's can render games like BF3 at 60FPS, why can't the video software render on the GPU with 60X more detail, and thus churn out one frame each seconds? As opposed to a CPU churning out a 1080p frame every 5 seconds or so. (I've only seen a render process once, so my times might be a bit... skewed. )


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 13:59
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Most software is moving over to gpu processing where it's effective.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 14:14
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@MrValentine, i don’t see what you’re saying, i built my computer 2 years ago with an x4 955 and I’ve never noticed any sluggishness, its only ever been trumped by my friends i7, which cost him over twice as much, and only beet my 955 by a couple of seconds in superPi. Maybe your slowdown is elsewhere?


I can count to banana...
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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 15:43 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 16:08
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have I mentioned slow downs anywhere?

but Isocadia man I love your avatar... have you checked your bios inside out? if you open your far you will have to regrease as you will cause bubble holes in the paste... so best re-apply the thermal paste... use TIM to remove it clearly I have some if you are nearby lol

EDIT

Typo in bold

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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 16:02
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tpm? No idea what that is. I just use little alcohol wipes (unscented!)

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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 16:04
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basically the same thing only more engineered for the purpose

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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 16:05
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What's the unabreviated name and links to buy? XD

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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 16:10
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my bad TIM kit...

http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Cooling%20solutions&type_sub=Thermal%20Interface&model=AK-TC

you can find kits too comes with thermal paste to reapply a decent grade paste... with a card too very handy!!! also you can use it to clean the card after haha pretty nifty

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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 16:16 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 16:17
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Hmm, interesting, but this review is pretty damning.

http://forums.hexus.net/pc-hardware/67395-akasa-tim-clean-isopropyl-cleaning-cpu-etc.html

Quote: "i emailed arctic silver about the akasa TIM cleaner a while back (before they had any cleaning products available) and they said that the akasa stuff leaves an oily residue behind that will interfere with the arctic silver. they suggested the isopropyl alcohol. im sure they know best!
p.s. and i got some really strange looks when i asked for it at the pharmacy in tescos."



And isopropyl is so cheap and the wipes so handy and effective. I might try out TIM sometime though just to compare.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 16:33
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Quote: "the akasa stuff leaves an oily residue behind"


sounds like utter nonsense must have been applying waaaaay too much...

but then again must have been an early batch with bad results it can happen...

[take half a lemon and slide it against your window ]

Quote: "And isopropyl is so cheap and the wipes so handy and effective. I might try out TIM sometime though just to compare."


Always good to try new stuff, where can I find isopropyl wipes? I might be installing a new fan for an old system soon could try it on there ^^

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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 17:25
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Long link:


I use something very similar to this. Mine aren't the same brand though. The ones I use are little cotton clothy things that are about an inch square, not folded up or anything and pretty thick, with a fair amount of alcohol on them.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 17:32
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Haha pre-injection wipes... Ill stick to TIM it smells better hehe...

But thanks for the link...

How long does the residue take to evaporate?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 17:50
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It evaporates immediately. It smells like rubbing alcohol, cuz that's all it is

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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 18:46
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Cool haha

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Isocadia
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Posted: 13th Jul 2012 22:57 Edited at: 13th Jul 2012 23:09
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Well, my fan is sucking air from the exhaust fan and blowing it against my dvd player

Anyway, I've always used regular 99% alcohol for removing thermal paste, and ofcourse I'll reapply thermal paste after removing it I'm not that unfamiliar with computers

Anyway, that means it's waiting for me to have some time to go to the store to get some new thermal paste... which sucks cause it's far from my house. Also, I believe my CPU cooler has aluminium fins ( though I can only find references to copper versions of this model, or coated versions to make it look nickel/aluminium like... ), should I also buy a new CPU cooler at the same time, or do you think that the zalman 9500 is enough to cool a 3.4-3.6 GHz CPU?

Isocadia

Ps: what's so great about my avatar, I think it's in the default images

Edit: Also Indicium, I think that video rendering takes alot more CPU power because there's alot more calculations going on for each pixel rendered, and the GPU is used more to like force shadows trough hardware, but it's like it will always render a shadow at a certain quality ( namely the maximum of the hardware ) where with a CPU, you can just iterate the same calculation over and over again but each time get more accurate data and better shadows. Also there's the limit of a GPU having to work with an entire image at the same time, where CPU's can work on small groups of pixels etc. It basicly comes down to the fact that the GPU is limited in how far it can go and I think that a prerendered scene from like Tintin is not just 60 times better but more like 600 times better than a scene we see in game ( LOD's removed, water, everything shining, everything shaded. It's alot )
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MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 00:43
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Quote: "Ps: what's so great about my avatar, I think it's in the default images "


is it? aww I wish I could change my Avatar... but ... it is reflective of me so...

in my opinion the whole point of moving workload away from the cpu is to prevent system lockup haha Hence Multi Tasking even more!!!

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Isocadia
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 00:53
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Yeah, but when doing complex calculations you should use the CPU instead of the GPU. The GPU is build for fast low quality shaders, while the CPU is build for slow calculations with a better end result. So it all depends on what you're doing.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 05:31
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It's not quite that simple. GPUs are designed for concurrent calculations on a similar data set. CPUs are more general.

There's some applications where a 64 core cpu would be insanely faster than a gpu with 64 stream processors. The opposite statement is also true. (Example, raytracing vs compressing, where compression is benefited on a gpu and raytracing is benefited by a general cpu).

Here's a really educational rundown:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU

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Isocadia
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 17:28
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So, I've bought some thermal paste (Cooler Master HTK-002, it's the only one they sell around here... ) and right now I've just one question about how much thermal paste I should apply and how. Up to now I've always put about a pea of thermal paste, spread that out with an old credit card and then pushed the cooler on, but would it be better just to leave the pea of thermal paste in the center and let the CPU cooler push it outwards?
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MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 17:29
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card and spread it thinly covering the entire cpu and avoid bubble spots

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Isocadia
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 17:59
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But is a pea enough ( like a small ball with a diameter of .5 cm )?
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MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:19
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usually yeah but I dunno how big that shell is... so just try to keep it smooth and apply the heatsink soon as the paste can try quickly sometimes...

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bitJericho
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 18:24
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The right amount is about the size of a grain of rice. Don't spread it out, just put the heatsink on it.

A good way to test it is apply it, put the heatsink down. Then lift it up. You'll see exactly what it covered. If it covered the whole heat shield, you did it right. If you get it off-center, you'll see heat rise much higher than it should. When you lift it up, of course you have to clean it and reapply. So obviously you can't do that normally, it's just so you can figure out about the right amount.

The way to test it is just run a heat test and measure the temps. If they're within spec, you probably did it right.

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Isocadia
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Posted: 14th Jul 2012 20:37 Edited at: 14th Jul 2012 22:28
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Well, I've got an entire tube of it so having to reapply isn't the biggest problem. I've also checked, it's the coated NVidia edition of the 9500, not an aluminium version.

What I've also noticed is that the core voltage when set to 1.35 in the BIOS fluctuates between 1,28 and 1.33... I'm using an ASUS M4N98TD EVO with a Corsair 750HX power supply. Another thing is that it idles at 1.33 and when stressed goes to 1.28, while I think it should go up when stressed.

So, all I did was clean the entire case ( all case fans EVERYTHING ) and I've been able to keep it steady stressed at 55 degrees with a .4GHz OC:

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2438759
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Isocadia
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Posted: 15th Jul 2012 22:49
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Hmm, which temperatures should I read, the core temperatures or the CPU temperature?
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Indicium
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 05:01
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I'm not sure, but you can't go wrong with reading the highest one.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Dark Frager
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 13:46
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I don't know which program you are using but I would look at the core temperature.

Putting the fun back into Fungus since 1984.
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Isocadia
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 16:30
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I'm using CPU-ID HardwareMonitor. Only problem I have right now is that the clip for attaching the CPU cooler to the socket touches my NB heatsink, so I'll have to remove it like I did the last time. Only problem is that I can't find the saw to do it. Guess I'll have to wait for my dad to come home....
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Isocadia
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 14:04
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Small update:

I replaced the old thermal paste with new Arctic Silver 5 and I've switched the fan from sides, so now it's blowing in the right direction

Difference, almost 7 degrees cooler when idling, haven't stressed it yet. But in the next 200 hours it could still go down by about 5 degrees, so I'm extremely happy
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