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Geek Culture / My first half hour with Windows 8 [Video]

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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 03:54


My first half hour with Windows 8 Customer Preview, you can see how I got on with it, what I found difficult and what I found easy. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
TheComet
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 11:34
I enjoyed watching that, thanks!

I'm still not fond of the whole metro UI thing, but I might consider giving it a chance.

TheComet

GregA
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 12:37
It looks like if you get a tablet, get windows 8... If you are sticking with a PC, stay with windows 7.

Both fine options for their particular niche to me.
nonZero
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 13:58
Thanks for the warning *ahem* I meant educational video

Have to be honest, I absolutely hate the Metro thing aesthetically and, after seeing the video, pragmatically too. It's so obtrusive. I don't like features that fill my whole screen unless I implicitly tell them to and I like the start button as I can still see the rest of the screen while using it. Unless the Metro-thing is optional (ie it can be disabled completely), I'll be avoiding an upgrade til the last possible moment.
I mean it just looks to be a very closed system all in all. Everything about it smells of Web-Desktop integration - of which I am not a fan. To me, based on everything I've seen, this OS is not targeted at traditional PC users but rather the new generation. *Sigh* Then again I said that when I first saw win95. Maybe I'm getting old quicker psychologically than physically, lol.

I really am peeved about the start button. Anyway, at least the desktop and taskbar seem to be intact (save for the start button). Where there's hope I suppose...

Rant aside, here are my questions:

Q1. Can you still use "Run"? Would the "search" thingy in metro be the equivalent to "run" like on the start button in win7, I mean?
Q2. Any way to permanently disable the Metro layer (it seems to be just a layer. I hope it's just a layer)?
Q3. How "tamper-able" is win8? Like have you tried to install an alternate shell yet or mess with any "user-proof" settings?
Q4. Security. Just how many hoops do you have to jump through to gain full control over your own machine?

I'll be curious as I know as, inevitably, I'll be forced to upgrade at some point. It's good to know now what I'm in for.

[Side Note]
Favorite Lines:
Quote: "So if there's nothing to share, then why have they got a share button?"


Quote: "Ooh, pretty graphics"


Quote: "Weeeeeee"


Quote: "Solitaire won't let me down ... ... Why can't I click on Solitaire?"

[/Side Note]

Nice Video!

bitJericho
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 15:12 Edited at: 16th Jul 2012 15:13
Quote: "Q1. Can you still use "Run"? Would the "search" thingy in metro be the equivalent to "run" like on the start button in win7, I mean?
Q2. Any way to permanently disable the Metro layer (it seems to be just a layer. I hope it's just a layer)?
Q3. How "tamper-able" is win8? Like have you tried to install an alternate shell yet or mess with any "user-proof" settings?
Q4. Security. Just how many hoops do you have to jump through to gain full control over your own machine?"


Q1. Yes. Just start typing when you pull up the metro interface and it works exactly like the start menu text box

Q2. There's hax for the preview. The whole point of windows 8 will be metro though.

Q3. It seems like it's just a few addons on windows 7. Seems perfectly hackable if you like making your windows install unstable

Q4. Has great security. Expect it to be similar or the same as Windows 7. If you don't feel you need to be secure, you can shut things off just like on 7.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 18:38
That was a pretty informative video, whilst you yourself didn't know much jumping in, but it was good to see how intuitive Windows 8 is to use and how it's different to Windows 7. I kind of like the look of it, but it seems some concepts would require me to get used to it. Ideally speaking it would have a classic 'Windows 7 Mode' to suit folk who don't welcome the changes.

What would be nice to see, as this OS is more 'touch' orientated is to see people get more use out of a trackpad. It's something Macs do already and they've built it into their latest OS builds. So gestures you might use on an iPad would be similar on MacOS using a trackpad. I don't know how viable this would be on a PC because Microsoft doesn't build its hardware and I don't know if all are capable of multi-touch. I know my trackpad tries to use some level of multi-touch, for example, I can pinch and I'll zoom in on this webpage, but it doesn't have the same level of accuracy. Though, it would be nice to see something like Windows 8 try to do something with its touch interface beyond standard touch devices.

nonZero
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 22:27 Edited at: 16th Jul 2012 23:02
@Jerico:
Cool, tks for the extra info. Nice to know I'll be able to hold off the demon a little longer if I'm forced to upgrade. If MS continues in this direction though, I think I'll just permanently change over to Ubuntu as I'm slowly finding myself using it more and more these days

@Sepp:
Quote: "I don't know if all are capable of multi-touch"

I think it would be viable with a decent trackpad but most of these features are app-dependent right now. My laptop's trackpad, a Synaptics, supports pinching, rotating (two finger, one revolves 90° around the other), flicking (two-finger scrolling-type thing that sorta doesn't ever work but is supposed to, lol) and something else. These things work in some apps better than others. I disabled it all of course as I've yet to get with the times (tbh I'm not that into the whole touchy thing. I actually bought the Bamboo Pen only graphics tablet for that reason... oh and the price was cheaper). I think you could prolly get software for your trackpad to support any type of gestures (or write some). Here's a linky to some software that claims to do this. I haven't tried it as I just found it now on Softpedia, hope it's what you're looking for:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Launchers-Shutdown-Tools/Scrybe.shtml
(I'm busy downloading now so I'll edit my post with a review of it just now).
[EDIT] My Review: It requests an internet connection. Warily, I allowed it (sandboxed though) and it didn't work. Said there was a server-side error. Sorry Will keep a look out though.[/EDIT]

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 22:39
Quote: "I think it would be viable with a decent trackpad but most of these features are app-dependent right now. My laptop's trackpad, a Synaptics, supports pinching, rotating (two finger, one revolves 90° around the other), flicking (two-finger scrolling-type thing that sorta doesn't ever work but is supposed to, lol) and something else. "


Mine's a Synaptics as well, but it isn't that good at it vs a trackpad on a MacBook or a Magic Trackpad. As for that link, I'll give it ago, it'd be pretty cool if there were some 3rd party software to work with Windows 8's interface. I think it'd definitely be a sensible alternative.

nonZero
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Posted: 16th Jul 2012 23:05
Well, if it's win8 specifically, here's what Synaptics have to say:
http://www.synaptics.com/solutions/technology/windows8/

Aertic
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 18:12
Looks like they're trying to turn a computer into an Xbox. An entire full screen presentation of big, shouty and minimal graphical effects that are used and driven by the mouse and mouse only. To me, a terminal and a keyboard will still be more effective and a lot better than a graphical user interface and a mouse/trackball/trackpad/touch screen, I'm sure a lot of people share the same notion with me. Seems like they're trying to simplify things too much to the point where its complex and interface hell. I don't know what would be worse, programming the interface, designing it, or using it.
Phaelax
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 19:40
Quote: "driven by the mouse and mouse only"

what?! no keyboard shortcuts?! Am I gonna have to buy a mac now?

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 01:32
Quote: "Am I gonna have to buy a mac now?"
Don't, randomness 128 will murder you.

So... I'm not too certain what microsoft is smoking.
lazerus
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 01:57
I'd rather catch swine flu again than put this near my system.

What's with removing shortkey's too? Are they stupid ;')

Portfolio; Arthiccup.com
Lazerus Reborn on Polycount and a few other places.
TheComet
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 03:34
That does it, I'm moving to LINUX anyway soon. I got C++ and Ogre running there, Blender is working as well, so is GIMP. What else do I need that LINUX can't already offer?

TheComet

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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 04:11
Jee... Yup, Linux sounds swell. Or not updating...
Dar13
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 06:03
Quote: "That does it, I'm moving to LINUX anyway soon. I got C++ and Ogre running there, Blender is working as well, so is GIMP. What else do I need that LINUX can't already offer?"

Mainstream native gaming support? (Wine and Mono don't count)

By the way, what distro are you running?

Aertic
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 17:02 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 17:02
Quote: "Mainstream native gaming support? (Wine and Mono don't count)"

Well, VALVE have announced Steam for Linux.

That being said, the only games you need to play are QuakeWorld and Xonotic.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 20:01
Quote: "Well, VALVE have announced Steam for Linux."


Unity3D has announced Linux support too (in version 4). Whilst the editor won't be in Linux, but it can publish to Linux. But then, back in the day Unity3D only worked on Macs, but supported Windows, then later a windows version came out. It might be interesting to see if the Linux market does pick up. It's a lot more accessible than it used to be.

Nickydude
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2012 14:24
Microsoft drops 'Metro' name for Windows 8.

I reject your reality and substitute my own...
Hassan
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Posted: 4th Aug 2012 19:14 Edited at: 4th Aug 2012 19:19
I've been using Windows 8 for over a month and I can tell you this: every "app" tries to fight the user in some way.

First of all I'm going to talk about internet explorer, nothing new, its slow, unreliable, and has lots of bugs, not to mention it doesn't support flash, well they have that button here which says "view on the desktop"...really? as if they knew their explorer is bad and will absolutely fail to do some task, so they felt like giving you the ability to switch to the other, even worse explorer, to view some media, what the hell?? They forced me to use bing as the default homepage and I don't like it, google doesn't work fine on it as it hangs when you hit enter to search, now I have heard some stuff about mincrosoft not allowing any other companies such as Mozilla to create their metro style explorer, that makes things even worse, we're stuck with this thing forever.

Ok. what else? here: the E-mail app is very, very basic, you get a message, you read it, you send a massage, that's all, you can't search or load older messages so at some point, you HAVE to open up Hotmail on your explorer to view your E-mail, I don't see the point of having the E-mail app then.

Messaging app is bad, honestly I like how you can stick it to a portion of your window, but it's very unreliable and it have put me in a lot of embarrassing situations because of that, I don't even know what the bugs are but it's just trying to fight you, it often randomly erases my message or stops responding to my "Enter" button because all of a sudden, it loses connection, it resets connection when you minimize it and takes a while to re-connect, this drives me insane, finally, you can't send messages to offline, or "appearing offline" contacts, which is also frustrating, my friend talks to me but I can't reply because he is appearing offline - hell I can't even notify him, I have to call him from my phone to tell him that

Music app is bad, it is very complex and very user-unfriendly, their way of creating playlists is bad, I don't even know how it works yet but every time I try to listen to music I encounter a bug or at least bad experience, the controls are pretty much hidden, I don't see and volume controls, well this thing is probably made for a tablet, which SHOULD be easier to use, but windows media player is waaay much more organized, it was easier to use and it was friendly, the music app is pointless.
Let's be a little bit positive, search is not bad, it's fast and clean.

To sum it up, (almost?) all apps have missing features, hidden controls, or even bugs, now that we're in the release candidate, it should have been much more polished, I honestly have no reason to keep using windows 8 other than Visual Studio 2012 supporting the graphics debugging, in Windows 7 it was very limited and had no shader debugging available, but EVEN THAT will soon be gone - Microsoft said that the express edition will only allow creation of metro apps - what the hell? again, this is bad.

I wouldn't recommend anyone to get windows 8 unless you need graphics debugging of visual studio, because everything else is a mess, also forgot to mention, although the metro thing looks like a layer, Microsoft claims that it's not, I remember that being said on their "build conference", but from my experience, I found it completely separate from the desktop, it looks like you have 2 different OS's running, which is also unacceptable.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 4th Aug 2012 20:05
Not touching it with a barge pole.

Jeku
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Posted: 4th Aug 2012 22:51
@Hassan - Which version did you use? The release version is out in 11 days.


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Hassan
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Posted: 5th Aug 2012 00:01 Edited at: 5th Aug 2012 00:02
I'm using the release preview (Build 8400), it's way too buggy to be a "preview", I even forgot to mention crashes - I already encountered the new blue screen of death twice - it is light blue this time, with a sad face ( "" ), I often leave my computer running at night, I rarely turn it off, back in windows 7 it was fine - now it crashes every 2 or 3 days, by crash I mean hangs out forever and there is no other choice than rebooting, oh and also, there is some weird bug where my running programs in the taskbar start swaping icons randomly, I have internet explorer on my windows explorer, and visual studio starts dominating everything sometimes

Really disappointed that I can't go back to 7 because it doesn't (and will never) have DirectX 11.1, i'm stuck with this thing

bitJericho
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Posted: 5th Aug 2012 00:32
Interesting, I've had no crashing on my end. I tend to stay away from most of the built in metro apps, they just aren't that useful. I do use remote desktop and the pdf app though. For other things like mail, messenger, I've installed the standard desktop stuff instead.

Flatlander
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Posted: 13th Sep 2012 23:57 Edited at: 14th Sep 2012 00:00
@Daniel

Thanks for this review. I really appreciate the fact you had the wherewithal (actually guts :SMILE: ) to start from scratch and show us what an experienced computer handler can do without knowing anything about the OS App. I have always felt that if I have a hard time with it then my wife is going to have a real bad time.

Mainly because of my age I think I will stick with Win7. Hopefully I won't even know what a computer is anymore by the time I need to be worried about Win8.

Addendum:

BTW, I did some research and it looks like VB6 will once again be supported in Win8. Starting with Win7, however, the development GUI does not work in Win7. At least it never has for me. The apps developed using VB6 work fine but the actual development does not using the GUI.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
BlackFox
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Posted: 14th Sep 2012 01:37
Quote: "BTW, I did some research and it looks like VB6 will once again be supported in Win8. Starting with Win7, however, the development GUI does not work in Win7. At least it never has for me. The apps developed using VB6 work fine but the actual development does not using the GUI."


I can confirm this as well, since I still work in VB6. At first I thought it was the 64bit Win7 that was on the laptop I bought, so I tried it on the 32bit Win7 on the new purchased desktop and same results. Apps work when launched, but could not code in the GUI. Good thing I use VMWare (XP virtual machine) to code in- at least my VB6 can still be used. It will be nice if they do bring back support as you mentioned.


Twitter: @NFoxMedia

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