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Dark GDK / MIstrel's Dark GDK 2.0 60 USD Pricing Model A Hoax ! ?

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Juggernaut
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 06:24
Hello Mistrel,

I cannot understand the 60 USD pricing model for your Dark GDK 2.0 that will get a stable release after few months.

Dark GDK 2.0 is not a stand alone product.
Dark GDK 2.0 needs Dark Basic Professional Edition installed on the developer's machine in order to function. So the developer naturally orders for the Dark Game Studio which contains Dark Basic Professional
(along with some of its plugins) and also Dark GDK 1.0 for 49.99 USD. This entitles the developer royalty free commercial license for the products - Dark Basic Professional ( including some plugins ) and Dark GDK 1.0.

He then buys the Dark GDK 2.0 commercial license from your website http://www.darkgdk.com for 30 USD using the coupon code: EARLYGDK2 to get a 50% off from the actual price label of 60 USD.

Ironically he founds a thread in the Dark GDK TGC forum
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=198495&b=22 where Mistrel confirms that he is going to let existing Dark GDK 1.0 users to upgrade to Dark GDK 2.0 for 0.00 USD when a stable release of Dark GDK 2.0 takes place few months from now.


So the question now arises - what happens to the 60 USD price tag after the stable release ? It just vanishes and becomes 0.0 USD !
This is just not fair. The people who have availed EARLYGDK2 coupon's 50 % off price offer only gets to use the Dark GDK 2.0 RC4 - RC 5 and subsequent release candidates
for few months ( Mistrel said stable release will be in coming three months ) after which the whole product becomes free to existing Dark GDK 1.0 license holders!

Mistrel, can you please clearly explain your intentions to us ?
Andrew_Neale
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 12:59
My understanding is that users who have actually bought a 'Dark GDK Commercial License' will get the free upgrade when the stable version is released. More than fair in my books.

People new to Dark GDK or those who were using it but had never bought a license will pay full price. Again, sounds fair to me.

Anyone who buys it before the stable release is getting early access with a chance to input on the further development and is helping to support the development of an excellent product which Mistrel has put a lot of time and effort into.

To me this seems fair all round.

If someone has bought a new license without reading that they would have been entitled to a free upgrade then that is unfortunate and maybe Mistrel could have made it clearer, but I still wouldn't push too much blame his way as the information is out there. Furthermore, paying for it now has given them early access to start building straight away and even more than that, $30 is NOTHING for a product like this.


Previously TEH_CODERER.
Olby
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 13:00
Quote: "Dark GDK 2.0 is not a stand alone product."


You're wrong mate! DarkGDK 2.0 does not require you to have DBPro. It's a standalone product with it's own plugin licensing module.

As for the Dark Game Studio. I don't think that the DarkGDK 1.0 version that comes with DGS is the commercial one. GDK 1.0 is free for non-commercial use but you have to pay for the commercial edition. If you paid for the commercial then you'll probably get GDK 2.0 for free. This is how it is usually done. Correct me if am wrong.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 14:08 Edited at: 18th Jul 2012 14:10
If you own the commercial version it's only fair that you get a free upgrade as you've already paid full price and it's great that's what's on offer. For the non-commericial version, it's free, as Dark GDK 2.0 is a commericial version, there's no free upgrades. I don't know if there's a non-commericial version on the road map, but it took quite a while for 1.0 to have a non-commerical version and the same for DBP & FPSC.

Paying the early adopter just means you get to use it sooner as in order for it to be free, it needs to be on the TGC store as that's where your account is and it's where your order history can be checked, but as far as I understand everything is happening through Mistrel's Dark GDK site at the moment and 2.0 isn't available on TGC's site yet as it's just in the release candidate stages.

Those who don't want to pay because they bought the commercial license can still use the release candidates, but each is only available for a short time and cannot be used commericially, but at least it means you can play with it and even get started on something whilst you wait for official release.

Juggernaut
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 14:21
@oliby: How can you say that Dark GDK 2.0 is a stand alone product ? During installation it asks for the location of Dark Basic Professional directory currently installed on the machine.
Besides talking about its own plugin structure - where is the AI plugin available for Dark GDK 2.0 ? No it is not. It uses the existing licensed plugins of Dark Basic Pro installed and registered
with valid license on user's pc.

As for the pricing tag argument please read my logic below - what I have written to Andrew.


@Andrew_Neale: You missed the whole point my friend. I am not saying that I want my money back. It is just not clearly stated in his website nor in his thread of 50% off that all existing users of Dark GDK 1.0 who has commercial license will get a free upgrade.

Secondly if a user only buys Dark GDK 1.0 license for 30 USD he gets to upgrade to Dark GDK 2.0 for 0.0 USD. So where does the 60 USD price tag stands ? It simply does not exist.
Andrew_Neale
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 14:31 Edited at: 18th Jul 2012 14:45
Quote: "You missed the whole point my friend. I am not saying that I want my money back. It is just not clearly stated in his website nor in his thread of 50% off that all existing users of Dark GDK 1.0 who has commercial license will get a free upgrade."


Quote: "If someone has bought a new license without reading that they would have been entitled to a free upgrade then that is unfortunate and maybe Mistrel could have made it clearer, but I still wouldn't push too much blame his way as the information is out there."


So I did kind of cover that point and somewhat agreed with you.

Quote: "Secondly if a user only buys Dark GDK 1.0 license for 30 USD he gets to upgrade to Dark GDK 2.0 for 0.0 USD. So where does the 60 USD price tag stands ? It simply does not exist."


I agree that this may seem a little odd. However, surely Mistrel is free to set whatever price he wants for his product, and he has chosen $60 which is not that unreasonable in my books. In fact, I even chose to not use the discount code when I purchased to try and help support the development. The fact he has made the upgrade free for existing license owners is great and, whilst it may not look fair, he shouldn't be told how much he can charge for a new product just because of the pricing of an old one. I guess the only way around that for him otherwise would've been to only charge existing owners the difference between the two costs but that may equally have caused upset.

There are arguments to both sides, but I don't think Mistrel has done anything wrong.

[Edit] On a side note, I'm not certain, but I believe the reason it 'asks for the location of Dark Basic Professional directory currently installed on the machine' is so that it can pull across plugins and certificates isn't it? I don't believe it requires you to supply the core DBPro DLLs. It would make sense that DBPro wasn't a requirement. [/Edit]


Previously TEH_CODERER.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 14:49
I have another question regarding the upgrade path -

If a Dark GDK 1.0 commercial license holder (at the cost of 30 USD) gets the privilege to upgrade to Dark GDK 2.0 at no cost, should
the users who have bought commercial license for Dark GDK 2.0 using the 50% off coupon (for an effective price of 30 USD) get the privilege of using Dark GDK 1.0 commercially at no extra cost ?
My argument is if the user has paid for a commercial license of the same product with a higher version number he should get the privilege
of using the lower version number of the same product too.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 14:56
Quote: "On a side note, I'm not certain, but I believe the reason it 'asks for the location of Dark Basic Professional directory currently installed on the machine' is so that it can pull across plugins and certificates isn't it? I don't believe it requires you to supply the core DBPro DLLs. It would make sense that DBPro wasn't a requirement."


The question is - Can the Dark Basic Pro plugins be installed on the developer's machine and activated with valid license without installing Dark Basic Pro itself ? I think not. So in that case Dark Basic Professional installation is a requirement for using those plugins along with Dark GDK 2.0
Andrew_Neale
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 16:44
Quote: "Can the Dark Basic Pro plugins be installed on the developer's machine and activated with valid license without installing Dark Basic Pro itself ?"


I believe so, yes. The Dark GDK 2.0 installation folder contains a 'tgcauth' application for just this purpose.


Previously TEH_CODERER.
Olby
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 18:57 Edited at: 18th Jul 2012 19:00
@Juggernaut - Please read carefully before making loud statements:



During the installation it will look for DBPro path to copy existing licenses and licensed plugins so that you don't have to install and license them repeatedly. It will work the same if you don't have DBPro installed as GDK 2.0 comes with it's own core plugin set and licensing module. Mistrel has already covered this in another topic. Use of existing DBPro plugins is preferred (currently official TGC plugin installation wizards will install into DBPro folder structure by default) but not obligatory.

This kind of guessing only hurts the product. Please, let's wait until the final is released before returning to all this licensing nonsense. Nothing is yet set in stone.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0

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Juggernaut
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 19:34 Edited at: 18th Jul 2012 19:56
But it still does not make the licensing model of 60 USD any more clearer. 60 USD price tag simply does not exist because the new users will buy Dark GDK 1.0 commercial license for 30 USD and upgrade to the
Dark GDK 2.0 at no cost rather than paying 60 USD for Dark GDK 2.0.

Of course, if TGC stops the availability of Dark GDK 1.0 from their sore then there is a chance that new users will be forced to purchase the Dark GDK 2.0 commercial license for 60 USD (If the price remains the same). Or they can also sell both 1.0 and 2.0 as one single package for 60 USD. Otherwise, under current scenario the 60 USD pricing model simply do not exist.

Secondly - If this post is hurting the product then you can ask the moderators to close/delete/lock it. Because I am not against the product and do not have any personal hitch with Mistrel too.

Thirdly - I did not find any [loud] tag in the message editor. I only used the [bold] tag. Hope it did not hurt any body's diaphragm.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 20:16
Unless of course Dark GDK 2.0 replaces 1.0 on the store page once it's released. All those who previous bought DGDK will get 2.0. Or the freebie could be only for those who bought DGDK before 2.0 is released. They're a couple of possibilities,

Of course Mistrel would need to clarify, but perhaps it is currently unknown what the final decision may be. As Olby says:

Quote: " Please, let's wait until the final is released before returning to all this licensing nonsense. Nothing is yet set in stone.
"


It could well be this is one of the issues that is not set in stone. If you spend $30 on Dark GDK 2.0 instead of $30 for the early adopter, all you're doing is postponing when you get access to the product. On release all that could change.

Olby
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 21:21 Edited at: 18th Jul 2012 21:23
Quote: "But it still does not make the licensing model of 60 USD any more clearer. 60 USD price tag simply does not exist because the new users will buy Dark GDK 1.0 commercial license for 30 USD and upgrade to the
Dark GDK 2.0 at no cost rather than paying 60 USD for Dark GDK 2.0."


DarkGDK 2.0 is a successor to 1.0 COMMERCIAL and it eventually will replace the latter. From what I recall Mistrel once said that 1.0 FREE will always be available as a download option but I doubt you will be able to buy 1.0 commercial when 2.0 is released. It wouldn't make sense at all. My understanding is that in the future there will be only one purchase option available GDK 2.0 COMMERCIAL for $60 (or whatever the price will be at that point).

I agree that there has been a lot of confusion regards the licensing but speculation made in this thread is not helping anyone. There's only one source of information at the moment- Mistrel and he is mum so far.

@Juggernaut - Sorry, it might be just me, but I do find your tone quite strong. Especially taking into consideration that the product has not been released and nobody forced you to pay for it now.


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Juggernaut
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 22:08
Quote: "@Juggernaut - Sorry, it might be just me, but I do find your tone quite strong. Especially taking into consideration that the product has not been released and nobody forced you to pay for it now. "


No hard feelings mate. We just got a bit excited and maybe the spark of ignition got working by my harsh adjectives. I apologize for that.
Like I said I have no hard feelings - neither for Mistrel nor You either.


And yes I will eagerly wait for Mistrel to incorporate all the features and fix the bugs - producing a product which is far superior and versatile than Dark Basic Pro and Dark GDK 1.0 for professional development.
WLGfx
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 02:17
Just keeping up with the news...

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 06:28
I think its only fair to mention here...

That GDK2 is a successor therefore the justification of receiving 2.0 for free is correct... As you can not discontinue a product without continuity... Unless the product line is EOL... Thats a different scenario...

On my part... I am confused what DGS's GDK means... I was aware it is a commercial licence upon purchasing...

And on balance that it is not the case... Then it is mandatory that there is a free version of GDK2 made available as it would put me at an unfair vantage point...

Just my two cents... Erm pennies...

Olby
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 09:57 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 10:00
Quote: "On my part... I am confused what DGS's GDK means... I was aware it is a commercial licence upon purchasing..."


Where does it says that? If you look at how DGS is priced (products you actually have to pay for) DarkGDK 1.0 is not on the list (just like any other FREE stuff that comes with DGS - Cartography Shop, Demos, Game Asset Store). FPSC Free edition does not count as to get it you still need to participate in some offers and to me it means "paying".



So if I follow this logical conclusion it seems that DGS comes with the FREE edition of GDK 1.0 and unless you paid for EXPLICIT commercial upgrade you're out of luck. Let me know if my deduction is wrong.

Like they say, read the small print before you pay.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0

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Juggernaut
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 13:18
There can be another argument for users buying Dark Game Studio bonanza pack.

In that picture - there is mention of "Dark Game Studio" - which contains the items as listed here -

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2125&page=bonanza

So now the question is - whether the contents of Dark Game Studio are usable for producing applications and games that can be sold commercially ? If not - then why on earth it is on sale - just for making games at home and having fun ? If the contents of Dark Game Studio are just free stuff, then why are they charging for it ?
If I cannot use Dark GDK 1.0 that comes within the DVD to create commercial products (without paying another 30 USD for the license) then that rule is applicable for "Cartography Shop" also. It is simply more confusing. I wish TGC would have stated the license for each of the item they are selling in the bonanza pack along with constraints if any.
WLGfx
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 15:16
For some time now there has been many questions on this subject and no one has been answering them. It looks like it's now:

Purchase DGS and the only license you have is DBPro? erm, well

The only item in that list that says it is the Free version is FPS creator. Which means the general public would expect that they've been purchasing the full software. By reading this thread through that seems it's not true now.

The small print -> ......... (sorry I need my glasses, looks like morse code)

OR... As I have just noticed...



The word 'FREE' is separate and could mean everything is 'FREE'.

DGS comes with GDK1, yep? Yep... License? Or do you pay for a DVD with FREE software?

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 15:30 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 15:51
I actually bought this package and I too have the DVD with all this stuff in it. And I too was under the impression that I got the full version of Dark GDK.

On the back of the DVD case it says that this is the complete command set as well.

The only one that shows to be free is the FPS Creator. That's the only one I knew that was not full version. It shows that on my DVD as well. I too have the key code to Dark GDK itself.

Am I reading this thread right that I didn't buy the full version when I bought this Bonanza package ? Now I'm confused.

In case you guys want to see proof I bought it.. here is a picture of DarkGDK on the actual Physical DVD....

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Olby
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 15:53 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 15:56
This image tells you exactly what you are paying for:



It does not contain the following products (because they're available for FREE):

Quote: "
Dark Edit
Game Creator Store
Cartography Shop
Demo Games
Physics Demos
DarkGDK
"


DarkGDK is included as a freebie I suppose because it's available for free anyway. As I see it, one can produce commercial products with DarkBasic PRO and DarkBasic CLASSIC but since you didn't pay for the actual DarkGDK 1.0 commercial license (hence it's not on the list in the above image) you're not allowed to sell your games created using the FREE license of DarkGDK 1.0. To be honest it all makes sense to me. Anyway round it's how companies try to persuade customers part with their cash and once again, read the fine print.

Honestly, I would be raging if it happened to me. So glad I bought PureGDK (now DarkGDK 2.0) back in the days directly from Mistrel.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 15:58 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 15:59
So all this time, I paid for a product that I can NEVER use as a commercial product ? All my past software I have made is actually ILLEGAL now ?? Are you kidding me ???

If this is the case I'm getting a damn lawyer !
WLGfx
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:00 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 16:01
But, but, but... FPS Creator is Free...



Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!

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JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:03 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 17:04
Exactly WGLfx, because if its not free, then I have been mislead by this website. NOW legal matters come into place here !!!

EDIT UPDATE : After looking this over, that picture DOES show DarkGDK. Its in the Dark Game Studio Package. It's INCLUDED !
Olby
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:25
Quote: "So all this time, I paid for a product that I can NEVER use as a commercial product ? All my past software I have made is actually ILLEGAL now ?? Are you kidding me ???

If this is the case I'm getting a damn lawyer ! "


Has anyone actually tried to contact TGC on this matter? Steaming here wont help. Am not working for TGC and this is just my assumption by looking at the product "checkout-table" (posted earlier by me) so don't take my word for granted.

@JackDawson - Have you actually produced any commercially distributed games with your copy of DarkGDK from DGS? If so then you would have sought advice from TGC in the first place before taking any legal action.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:29 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 16:42
My lawyer is getting hold of them in England. I had to find out where to bring this legal case to court. Turns out this website has a message saying that all legal matters are to be held in England. My layer is looking into it.

Because the way its shown on this website, I bought the complete package of DarkGDK because it came on the DVD in that special deal off this website. So this situation just escalated into a legal matter.



EDIT UPDATE : Lawyer looked over this liscense guys.. Looks like Olby is correct.





This website doesn't show this. Which is why this is such a big deal to people. So guess we need to pay more attention in the future. Sorry for my anger. I need to now go back over and work on retracting software I have made. Grrrr.
Olby
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:39
Quote: "So this situation just escalated into a legal matter."


Since the website does not make it clear whether DarkGDK is licensed as commercial (nor it's says the opposite) I agree that it must be made more evident.

People here don't take such matters to court unless there is a good reason and as far as am aware nobody has heard anything from TGC so far. Then why all the litigation fuss?


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:41 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 16:46
Please look at my reply above Olby. Sorry for my part in this misunderstanding.

Looks like I'll be buying the real copy VERY soon.

EDIT : One thing I want to note though, this website has FALSE advertising on it. Meaning its very misleading. Because this website doesn't show that its the freeware edition your getting.
Olby
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:46
Quote: "Lawyer looked over this liscense guys.. Looks like Olby is correct."


Oh dear! So if it's true then... Looks like some of us from now on will read T&C before clicking 'next'.


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WLGfx
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:49
I've just checked out that and darn it... Very misleading what is being advertised and I think there will be quite a lot of sad faces around when they find that out. Although now it looks like I'll be backing down from supporting GDK in its future and moving on.

I apologise for being brash also...

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:52
Well according to my lawyer I have no choice. I have to pay for it. So on my next paycheck, I am purchasing it.
Olby
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:58
Quote: "Although now it looks like I'll be backing down from supporting GDK in its future and moving on."


Mistrel has nothing to do with this, so I suggest you rather support him as he is the sole developer of DarkGDK 2.0. It would be sad to see customers repelled from GDK 2.0 due to misleading advertising done for 1.0 by TGC.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 16:59 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 22:55
Exactly. The problem right now is, the DarkGDK website is not responding. Its just sitting there. Waiting. I tried to register and it wont register.

EDIT UPDATE : Looks like I can just go here and get it today...

EDIT UPDATE 2 : SOLVED

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2128&page=upgrade
WLGfx
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 17:15
One of the things I planned on doing for GDK was digging deep into the source code. Speed things up with optimisations as much as I could. This has put a spanner in the works as now I only still have the Freeware edition.

My recent experience with opengl coding has helped me out a lot, especially since I've been studying DX coding with the intent to support GDK.

Not just that, I also know of a way of speeding up the current overhead usage GDK2 has with its function calling, but it's a long winded process to re-write the wrappers to the DLL's as I can appreciate Mistrel is having currently.

It's something I'll have a think about more...

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
Olby
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 17:31
Quote: "Not just that, I also know of a way of speeding up the current overhead usage GDK2 has with its function calling, but it's a long winded process to re-write the wrappers to the DLL's as I can appreciate Mistrel is having currently."


You should drop him a line or two. Maybe he's willing to work together making it a better product. In such case you'll possibly receive a full license as a developer.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
Juggernaut
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 18:00
Quote: "People here don't take such matters to court unless there is a good reason and as far as am aware nobody has heard anything from TGC so far. Then why all the litigation fuss? "


It is that new comer - Juggernaut - good for nothing - creating confusing threads in TGC forums leading to lot of headaches for existing TGC product users.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 18:08
Another point -

The persons who are paying for Dark GDK 2.0 now using the 50% off coupon - do they get the right to use Dark GDK 1.0 commercially without paying another 30 USD for it (Considering he/she did not buy any commercial license for Dark GDK 1.0 so far) ?
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 18:21 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 18:49
Dark GDK - GDK .NET Commercial License 19th Jul 2012 Awaiting Approval (Updated: 19th Jul 2012)

Basically I paid for both DarkGDK and DarkGDK.NET just in case I needed both.


EDIT : Ok I tried to register, log in and whatever else I can do on the darkgdk website. It hangs. It will not finish my registration nor will it send me an email with info. It just locks up. I have to wait 5 minutes, then come back to it. I try again, and it then hangs when I try to log in and resend my info to my email. It will not let me log in until I get this info from my email. And I have never gotten any email from that site yet. So any ideas here ?
Olby
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 18:58 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 19:00
Quote: "Ok I tried to register, log in and whatever else I can do on the darkgdk website. It hangs. It will not finish my registration nor will it send me an email with info. It just locks up. I have to wait 5 minutes, then come back to it. I try again, and it then hangs when I try to log in and resend my info to my email. It will not let me log in until I get this info from my email. And I have never gotten any email from that site yet. So any ideas here ? "


Inform the developer of your issues at: support@darkgdk.com

Quote: "The persons who are paying for Dark GDK 2.0 now using the 50% off coupon - do they get the right to use Dark GDK 1.0 commercially without paying another 30 USD for it (Considering he/she did not buy any commercial license for Dark GDK 1.0 so far) ? "


I doubt it unless TGC and Mistrel have come up with some sorts of odd agreement to provide backwards licensing.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 19:00 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 19:03
Thanks for the info Olby. Email sent.
Dar13
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 20:44
Quote: "Ok I tried to register, log in and whatever else I can do on the darkgdk website. It hangs."

I've had issues with the site too, but all I've had to do is refresh the page and it would load properly.

Quote: "One of the things I planned on doing for GDK was digging deep into the source code. Speed things up with optimisations as much as I could. This has put a spanner in the works as now I only still have the Freeware edition."

You can still edit the underlying source code of the DLLs that DarkGDK 2.0 relies on(and the DarkGDK 1.0 libraries are based off of), because the DarkBasic Pro source code is up on Google Code under the Apache license v2(a BSD derivative).

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 20:52
I must admit I am disappointed that TGC hadn't made it clear it's the free version. If you look at how they advertise Dark Basic Pro Free and FPSC Free you'd expect that DGDK Free would be advertised as such. To be honest, I was under the assumption that I was getting the commercial version too. Granted it's still a great deal, but I am glad that I didn't use DGDK for anything commericial, otherwise I might be bricking it right now.

Does seem to be a bit odd, probably not intentional.

WLGfx
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 21:38
It'll be a while before I take a good browse through the original source code, but what I have looked through, a lot of it can be optimised in various ways. Interfacing it with GDK2 is a monstrous task for anybody and with PureGDK the function calling overhead caused it to be not as fast as native DBPro is. If these function calls where setup differently then I'm sure that the speed difference between DBP and GDK2 would be very minimal.

A lot of questions have popped up over the transition from GDK1 to GDK2 and it's probably now required that somebody up top puts everything clear so that we can all understand what's going on.

Does purchasing the GDK2 license without purchasing the DBP license allow you to develop completely using any of the dll's (purchased or free) from DBP? And many more...

After a quick nosey through the Visual Studio Express license, anything written using it can not be sold commercially which GDK1 relies on. Fortunately GDK2 will be able to run with multiple IDE's, Code Blocks probably being the one of most peoples choice.

It's all giving me a head-ache and I fancy a beer and cannot have one...

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
JackDawson
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 21:42 Edited at: 19th Jul 2012 21:48
Quote: "I've had issues with the site too, but all I've had to do is refresh the page and it would load properly."


I try to refresh.. didn't work. And still no answer to my email.

Quote: "I must admit I am disappointed that TGC hadn't made it clear it's the free version. If you look at how they advertise Dark Basic Pro Free and FPSC Free you'd expect that DGDK Free would be advertised as such. To be honest, I was under the assumption that I was getting the commercial version too. Granted it's still a great deal, but I am glad that I didn't use DGDK for anything commericial, otherwise I might be bricking it right now. "


I'm bricking as we type up this thread. Trying to cover my ass here because this was NOT publicly displayed on this website that its a FREEWARE version. I now have paid for a FULL legal copy of both DarkGDK and DarkGDK.NET. But now I ran into another problem of which I posted here...

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=198784&b=22
Mistrel
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Posted: 20th Jul 2012 00:46 Edited at: 20th Jul 2012 06:07
Quote: "My argument is if the user has paid for a commercial license of the same product with a higher version number he should get the privilege of using the lower version number of the same product too."


The decision to provide all previous DarkGDK 1.0 commercial users with a free upgrade to 2.0 is being done as a courtesy to TGC's users and was never a requirement when the product inherited its name.

I want to make it clear that I do not receive any form of compensation from TGC by providing this upgrade for free. My hope that it will help DarkGDK users feel that they are valued as a customer and will continue to develop for it.

I do feel a lot of frustration when pricing this product. Previously it was $120, then $60, and now $30 with the coupon.

Thank you for your understanding and support.

JackDawson
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Posted: 20th Jul 2012 08:30 Edited at: 20th Jul 2012 08:30
Thank you Mistrel. I was able to register into your site and everything worked fine. Again ty.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 19:38
There is one thing that I think is not fair. If Dark GDK 1.0 users gets the right to use Dark GDK 2.0 free of cost from the day of full release, the persons who availed the early GDK price offer should also be allowed to use Dark GDK 1.0 without further cost.

Otherwise it just does not levels everything.
JackDawson
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 20:12
I can agree Juggernaut.

I am waiting on TGC to answer my ticket on the fact that I paid for the license for GDK 1.0. And they sent me the Shareware version instead. I paid for the license to both the GDK 1.0 and the GDK.Net 1.0. and all I got was shareware from 2006. So I hope they fix this soon !
Juggernaut
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 20:17
@JackDawson: Thank you Jack. I will be waiting for you to share with us what TGC answered to you.


Quote: " I paid for the license to both the GDK 1.0 and the GDK.Net 1.0. and all I got was shareware from 2006. So I hope they fix this soon !"


Sounds bad ... real bad.

I hope that this happens to no one else in future.
Dar13
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 20:21
Quote: "I am waiting on TGC to answer my ticket on the fact that I paid for the license for GDK 1.0. And they sent me the Shareware version instead. I paid for the license to both the GDK 1.0 and the GDK.Net 1.0. and all I got was shareware from 2006."

You still use the same libraries, you just have the legal permissions to use those libraries in commercial applications/games.

Quote: "Otherwise it just does not levels everything."

This is actually quite common in the software world. Just because you bought Windows Vista or Windows 7 doesn't mean you are entitled to Windows XP does it? Or if you buy Photoshop CS5, that doesn't mean you automatically get CS4. Mistrel is being quite kind in providing a discount code for early adopters and allowing previous DarkGDK commercial users to upgrade for free. Either one would've been above and beyond what most software creators do.

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