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Dark GDK / MIstrel's Dark GDK 2.0 60 USD Pricing Model A Hoax ! ?

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MrValentine
AGK Backer
8
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Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 20:37
Quote: "Just because you bought Windows Vista or Windows 7 doesn't mean you are entitled to Windows XP does it?"


Actually I forgot about Vista but Windows 7 [Ultimate the one I have] gioves you an XP licence, same with Enterprise edition and I believe Professional? but Home Premium and Starter do not...

so half true and half untrue

Just saying

Dar13
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Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 21:27
Quote: "Actually I forgot about Vista but Windows 7 [Ultimate the one I have] gioves you an XP licence,"

It gives you an XP virtual machine more like. XP-mode isn't a full XP license.

MrValentine
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 21:46
you still get XP with it >.<

Juggernaut
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 22:29 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2012 22:34
Quote: "This is actually quite common in the software world. Just because you bought Windows Vista or Windows 7 doesn't mean you are entitled to Windows XP does it? Or if you buy Photoshop CS5, that doesn't mean you automatically get CS4. Mistrel is being quite kind in providing a discount code for early adopters and allowing previous DarkGDK commercial users to upgrade for free. Either one would've been above and beyond what most software creators do."


Then it must also hold - that having windows XP license does not entitle the user to use Windows 7.

Owning a license for lower version of Windows does not entitles the user to use higher version of Windows.

So how come Dark GDK 1.0 users are getting the privilege of using
Dark GDK 2.0 at 0.0 USD ? Am I making some sense here ?

On second thought ...... it is purely the software maker's discretion what privilege he will give and to whom. It is just that we who are the users find ourselves at the receiving end which is not even.
JackDawson
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 22:48 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2012 23:08
@Dar13
Quote: "You still use the same libraries, you just have the legal permissions to use those libraries in commercial applications/games."


The problem is, those libraries have a TOS that say its Shareware. And that your NEVER allowed to use it for commercial purposes. There was no TOS sent to me that shows I am legal to use it for commercial purposes. This is the problem. I never got what I paid for.

Here is the TOS


Here is a picture of what I got.

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JackDawson
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 22:58 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2012 23:02
Here is proof that I paid for this just a few days ago...

Look carefully of all the dates in this picture. If you notice, they were supposed to send me a 2010 updated file. I only got a 2006 file and it was shareware.

On Friday I sent in a ticket to get this fixed. The reply they gave me had nothing to do with my original problem, so I replied back trying to explain that I DID pay for it. But not gotten a reply back yet.

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Olby
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 23:15
Quote: "Owning a license for lower version of Windows does not entitles the user to use higher version of Windows.

So how come Dark GDK 1.0 users are getting the privilege of using
Dark GDK 2.0 at 0.0 USD ? Am I making some sense here ?"


You have to remember that Dark GDK 1.0 was made by TGC and is licensed in line with their licensing policy. Whereas GDK 2.0 is made by a third party developer that has nothing to do with TGC and only secured the rights to use the brand (and DBPro source code). That's it. Mistrel has no rights to offer full license to GDK 1.0 unless TGC decides to do so. Hi did his best to offer free upgrades but anything else is beyond his powers I suppose.

Then again, why would you want to revert back to an outdated product if presumably GDK 2.0 will fix all outstanding issues.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
Dar13
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Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 23:21
Quote: "So how come Dark GDK 1.0 users are getting the privilege of using
Dark GDK 2.0 at 0.0 USD ? Am I making some sense here ?"

Because the developer was gracious enough to want to reward those who stuck with the product and also to entice those who were commercial users of DGDK 1.0 to move to DGDK 2.0. Mistrel is trying to create a core user-base is all. He was originally going to price DGDK 2.0 at $120 USD so I'd thank him for #1 dropping the full price to $60 and #2 providing early adopters with a 50% off discount code.

Olby
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 23:25 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2012 23:27
@JackDawson - Am sorry but whatever you're trying to say just doesn't make sense to me. If you look at your image you will notice that there are numerous entries with file updated date of 19th Jan 2010. This doesn't say when the file was released it just means the it was uploaded to TGC's servers on 19th of Jan 2010. Your version of GDK was released prior to opening of the new TGC store (early 2010).

If you take a closer look most of the files have upload date of 19th Jan and 23rd Mar 2010. It would be funny if TGC just decided to update all their product in early 2010 at the same time.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
JackDawson
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 23:31 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2012 23:36
Anytime they put out a new update, it will show up as UPDATED on that area where I circled in red. They did it to all my other files as well.

But if you look at my other picture you will see that they sent me a 2006 file that was NOT updated AND it was the shareware version not the commercial version of which I paid for.

Example : 3d Cloths was updated on the 24th of March 2010. While others were updated on a different date.

In fact, I had an older version of Blitzwerks Terrain. It had an older date. When it was updated, it updated the info on that page as well.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2012 23:42


Hope it happens and without any hidden issues left behind.
Olby
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 00:07 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2012 00:07
Quote: "But if you look at my other picture you will see that they sent me a 2006 file that was NOT updated AND it was the shareware version not the commercial version of which I paid for."


@JackDawson - I'll reiterate. Files updated prior to 2010 will display at least Jan 19th or Mar 23rd as their "updated" dates. And believe me 3d Cloths & Particles is an ancient plugin that hasn't received an update for ages (last update was years before 2010).

And as Dar13 said. There's no difference between commercial and free gdk 1.0 binaries. If you need the commercial TOS just e-mail them. My guess is that so few actually care about terms & conditions that nobody even bothered to request a full commercial one. So to say I haven't heard any one release a commercial game using the GDK 1.0.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
aerostudios
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 02:09
I think there is confusion that the Mistrel DarkGDK is the same product as the DarkGDK that has been packaged with the Dark Game Studio. They are not the same product.

The NEW DarkGDK from Mistrel was originally the PUREGDK with no connection to the other DarkGDK. Mistrel has simply renamed it to DarkGDK. I think this is the source of the confusion.

I welcome Mistrel to jump in and clarify this.

Russell B. Davis/aerostudios
Olby
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 12:25
Quote: "I welcome Mistrel to jump in and clarify this."


This has already been clarified numerous times, for example here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=196650&b=38&msg=2346594#m2346594

It's just the influx of new users that are confusing things up a little bit.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
JackDawson
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 13:54 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2012 14:01
@Olby, so your saying that the 2006 Shareware version of DarkGDK is the actual up to date version of DarkGDK ?? And all I have to do is get the license from them ?

Because from the Microsoft version of DarkGDK it is listed as 2007, which is newer then the one I got from this TGC website. The one from MS is the one you download off this website, but its the one listed from Microsoft, and their TOS is confusing as hell. So this is why I am asking. There is some confusion as to what the newest version of DarkGDK 1.0 there is. And if all I had to do is download that file for free, then why was I supposed to pay for a license that I never got ? And I did pay for the license. But I STILL have not received it. All I want is what I paid for.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 14:43
Quote: "You have to remember that Dark GDK 1.0 was made by TGC and is licensed in line with their licensing policy. Whereas GDK 2.0 is made by a third party developer that has nothing to do with TGC and only secured the rights to use the brand (and DBPro source code). That's it. Mistrel has no rights to offer full license to GDK 1.0 unless TGC decides to do so. Hi did his best to offer free upgrades but anything else is beyond his powers I suppose.
"


Fair enough. But by virtue Mistrel's generosity shown to existing Dark GDK 1.0 users - those who are contributing to the project is getting deprived of an even deal.
JackDawson
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 16:37
I GOT AN ANSWER FROM TGC !!!!


Quote: "
You are covered by a commercial license for both products. .Net doesn't have a free disreputable which is why there's no mention of commercial limitations, while DarkGDK C++ is free for educational purposes. As long as you have both commercial licenses registered on our service which you do, you can simply proceed to use the software without restriction."


THIS is what I needed to know. Thank you TGC !!!
Olby
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 18:11
Quote: "Fair enough. But by virtue Mistrel's generosity shown to existing Dark GDK 1.0 users - those who are contributing to the project is getting deprived of an even deal. "


SO what are you suggesting? Do you want him to stop offering discounts and upgrades to existing users?

Quote: "THIS is what I needed to know. Thank you TGC !!! "


See, this is what I was trying to tell you, there is no separate commercial GDK 1.0 download.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
Juggernaut
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 18:21
Quote: "SO what are you suggesting? Do you want him to stop offering discounts and upgrades to existing users? "


He is not offering discounts - he is making it free.
Olby
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 18:26
Quote: "He is not offering discounts - he is making it free."


It is called a "free upgrade", am not sure how this is discriminating anyone.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
Juggernaut
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 18:30
Quote: "It is called a "free upgrade", am not sure how this is discriminating anyone."


After spending 30 bucks some users are getting privilege of using both 1.0 and 2.0 while some are only tied to 2.0 - as long the 1.0 version remains available.
Olby
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 18:47
Why would you want to use an outdated 1.0 which is not support any more and has tons of outstanding bugs? Even if for some reason you want to do it, go on download it and use it. It's free anyway.

Have you heard of the new Microsoft promotion? Buy a new computer this year (up to 31st Jan 2013) with a licensed copy of Win7 and you get Win8 for $15 or so when it is released. This is how software industry works, you need to give incentive for upgrade. Mistrel wants to increase user base of 2.0 by offering this upgrade path. Seems fair to me.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
aerostudios
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 21:16
Being a software developer myself, I have no problem paying full price ($60) for a toolset that provides the capability that the DarkGDK 2.0 provides. I am anxiously awaiting the .NET version that will support VB.NET. Mistrel and others who are taking the time to create this should be rewarded for their efforts. I don't think Mistrel and others are doing this just as a hobby, but as a profession. So they deserve to be paid like any other developer. I applaud them for their efforts.

Russell B. Davis/aerostudios
aerostudios
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 21:23 Edited at: 24th Jul 2012 15:47
.

Russell B. Davis/aerostudios
Juggernaut
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 22:11
Quote: "Why would you want to use an outdated 1.0 which is not support any more and has tons of outstanding bugs?"


Hope Dark GDK 2.0 will be a more cleaner product. I will be waiting eagerly to see the face of RC5.
Olby
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2012 23:25
Quote: "Hope Dark GDK 2.0 will be a more cleaner product. I will be waiting eagerly to see the face of RC5. "


Same here.


Intel Core2Duo 2.2GHZ, 2GB, GeForce 8600M GT 1280MB, Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, PureBasic 4.61 + DarkGDK 2.0
JackDawson
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Posted: 24th Jul 2012 15:28 Edited at: 24th Jul 2012 15:35
@aerostudios
Quote: "
@JackDawson, in your posting showing the DarkGDK.NET and the DarkGDK Commercial license; could it be the commercial license identified there is for the DarkGDK.NET library and NOT the DarkGDK library? You do realize, those are 2 totally different products? My Airline Sharks game was developed using DarkGDK.NET because it supports VB.NET in both Visual Studio 2008 and Visual Studio 2010. The other DarkGDK, which I think everyone in this thread is referring to, does not."


Did you read everything ? Apparently you didn't. Read this thread again with my comments and you will see that I SHOW them to be two separate libraries and that I paid for TWO SEPARATE libraries. Even with my pictures I shown them to be BOTH paid for.

And TGC took care of this problem as I show in my last post.

@Olby
Quote: "See, this is what I was trying to tell you, there is no separate commercial GDK 1.0 download."


You have to understand, a forum is not the place I could get an official response from TGC. Even my lawyer told me this. I needed it from TGC ticket itself where it shows a ticket number with an official response. I got that. Now if something were to ever come up, I have proof of that ticket. This thread could easily be changed or removed. So I couldn't get an answer from this thread. Even if it was an honest answer. I know how the legal system thinks as far as sneaky lawyers go. So it was nothing personal against your answer.
aerostudios
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Posted: 24th Jul 2012 15:40
Well, excuse me for asking. I'll just excuse myself from this argument. I didn't realize it is such a touchy subject.

Russell B. Davis/aerostudios
3d point in space
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2012 01:52
i bought dark gdk 2.0 for 30 dollars because, I already had 1.0. I am still making my current project in 1.0 though

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.

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