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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Dark Basic Elite - A Question

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Ortu
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Posted: 24th Aug 2013 04:37 Edited at: 24th Aug 2013 04:41
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of course it is speaking for myself, everything i said was clearly stated as a personal opinion as shown by my frequent use of phrases such as 'imo' 'i feel' 'i dont think' and so on. just as your statements are your own personal opinion.

i have no interest and had no intention of derailing the thread with an argument, and so i will refrain from responding further.

But does it blend?
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 24th Aug 2013 12:39 Edited at: 24th Aug 2013 12:42
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So that concludes what was clearly based on my mis-understanding of we both confirmed implied by the meaning of the phrases 'IMO' and 'I don't think', but was not clearly based on discussing whether DarkBASIC is a learning tool not worth fixing.

Brilliant, it feels good to learn that it was your own opinion, and my opinion was actual mine.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 24th Aug 2013 13:09
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Well that seems to have cleared that up.



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Adrian
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Posted: 25th Aug 2013 18:39 Edited at: 25th Aug 2013 18:43
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Quote: "You do not even know yourself which bug is the most problematic on a grand scale; why spend the year fixing bugs which are not?"


Err.... precisely because there are bugs!
If I write something I do it to the best of my ability. To me, the most important thing about a program is - stability and bug-free-ness.
I always thought the "Holy Grail" was writing bug-free code, but apparently not. Apparently it doesn't matter if your code has bugs as you can simply ignore it.

It doesn't sound very "professional" to me.

Quote: "The first thing that needs to happen is for there to be a clear procedure for accessing it, compiling it and updating it."

Ok, let's say you do that. Let's say you fix the ... oh I don't know... say you fix the bug where object shadows are fog coloured instead of black for example.
You fix it, it works great but then someone else discovers that it breaks something else, or maybe the TGC team finally get around to an upgrade and fix it in a totally different way. Would we end up with multiple versions of DBPro with different versions fixing different bugs?
That's what we seem to have at the moment.
I understand that releasing a fix for one thing might break another (the fog shadow is an example) but when they are able to release another update to fix the "fix" after a couple of months you don't mind so much.
When it takes years between updates, then you're effectively stuck with that bug. No black shadows for you I'm afraid.

Take Advanced Terrain for another example:
It works great, except for the top and right-hand-side row of land that disappear - well, not completely disappear. You can still crash into it, you just can't see it.

This has been known about for ages and the best solution to the problem is..... install Blitz Terrain. Even Lee has been forced to use it.

Quote: "When TGC decided to update FPS Creator, they didn't do it "one bug at a time" but instead a complete rewrite which is still in progress today. I wouldn't be surprised if after they are finished with that, they shift their attention back to DarkBasic, primarily because without DarkBasic, there would be no FPS Creator."


Is Reloaded being written in DBPro?
Won't they have the same bugs to sort out/around as the rest of us?

Quote: "I do not think they called it DarkBASIC -Professional- if they intended it to be an introduction to games development;"

I totally agree - this was pushed as being a complete programming package that would enable you to:
"Write incredible 3D Games, Applications and Presentations With Ease"
It was to be used for writing professional programs (ones without bugs)

Quote: "i whud back it No Mather what i love dbpro starting to get hang on it
from other tools i have seen&tested dbpro seems best for me atleast "

I agree, DBPro is excellent. That's why I'm annoyed that it is being left to bleed to death.

Quote: " I bet you could fit every TGC employee into a single Subaru, so I am not surprised that they can only work on one project at a time."

I had no idea the company was so small - that may well explain a few things.

Quote: "All I am saying is that if you don't want to be a part of the solution, at least try not to be part of the problem.
"

LOL
All I want to do is write DX11 games with DBPro

/Rant
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 25th Aug 2013 19:16 Edited at: 25th Aug 2013 19:22
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Quote: "Would we end up with multiple versions of DBPro with different versions fixing different bugs?"


Sometimes this happens with open source projects; sometimes you end up with a new products altogether, named differently and managed by enthusiastic individuals.

Quote: "Ok, let's say you do that. Let's say you fix the ... oh I don't know... say you fix the bug where object shadows are fog coloured instead of black for example.
You fix it, it works great but then someone else discovers that it breaks something else"


That's why we need each other to participate and run thorough tests; tests and testing of tests, and then when tested, test once more again.

I am a firm believer that 99% of the bugs can be fixed given the attention; and they need not conflict with other parts of the engine, if they did cause such issues, usually the cause is human error.

In the worst case scenario, the problem is in the DirectX API.

That's my thought on that point.

But the thing about that bug you chose at random, it is part of a much large principle; standard shadows are better of handled by a HLSL shader.
Quote: "Take Advanced Terrain for another example:
It works great, except for the top and right-hand-side row of land that disappear - well, not completely disappear. You can still crash into it, you just can't see it.

This has been known about for ages and the best solution to the problem is..... install Blitz Terrain. Even Lee has been forced to use it."


I think that problem would have been solved if Blitz Terrain did not exist; it is like a bug in an MS DOS .COM application, why fix it when we have Windows 7/8 alternatives. Advanced Terrain is old. You can build your own advanced terrains with Matrix1, if for some reason you did not want to use Blitz Terrain.

This is an example of a low priority bug; which pushed me to believe we should have a bug tracking system, like Mantis; so that the system can answer this question.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 25th Aug 2013 20:39
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I agree. Advanced Terrain is great for beginners who want to get up and running quickly. It's only when you get more experienced that you discover the limitations, by which time you are proficient enough to create your own terrains from scratch, tailored to your own needs. That's what I've done and I'm quite happy with it. I've found very few bugs that have stopped me doing something. Sometimes there's a workaround, sometimes you just have to do things differently. DBPro isn't the only thing that's not perfect. Each of my last three computers, two PCs and a laptop, has had problems of one sort or another. You learn to live with it.

However, the bottom line has to be whether it's worth TGC producing an upgraded DBPro. I hope they decide to but I can well understand why they might not. There's only so much that six or so programmers can do - and they have to do things which earn cash.



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Chris Tate
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Posted: 25th Aug 2013 21:00
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Quote: "There's only so much that six or so programmers can do - and they have to do things which earn cas"


Indeed. I'd like to point out as-well that even Visual Studio and the Windows Presentation Foundation has loads of bugs, and consider how many programmers Microsoft have!

But I am sure things will brighten up next year after a number of months after the FPSCR release. Clarification of the bugs can only help.

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Adrian
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Posted: 25th Aug 2013 22:23 Edited at: 25th Aug 2013 22:24
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Quote: "It's only when you get more experienced that you discover the limitations, by which time you are proficient enough to create your own terrains from scratch, tailored to your own needs."


I agree, that's why I bought Blitz. I think it's really rather good (though it too does have the odd bug or two but no show-stoppers.)

Quote: "But the thing about that bug you chose at random, it is part of a much large principle; standard shadows are better of handled by a HLSL shader."

Yes, I agree, but again, it seems like a small problem to fix to remove something that doesn't work as expected.
It's not that it doesn't work properly so much as the amount of time you spend trying to sort out bugs in your own code that arn't there.
I usually try to sort out problems by myself before hitting Google, as I think that's the best way to learn, but I've been doing it more lately as it's now possible that it's a broken command rather than something I've done wrong. (I'm not being big-headed here, I've used DBPro for over a decade and know my way around it fairly well, so when my light maps don't work after an update, I know where to look.)

Is there a list of known bugs anywhere?
Is there an up-to-date list of commands with examples?

I DBPro.
I would love to see another update. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon though
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 25th Aug 2013 22:36
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Quote: "I usually try to sort out problems by myself before hitting Google, as I think that's the best way to learn,"


Really, I do the opposite; I jump into google or MSDN first! Better if someone solves my problem for me, than to spend an hour fixing something already fixed by someone. The only problems I fix myself, are the ones that are not already solved elsewhere.

Quote: "Is there a list of known bugs anywhere?"


I am only aware of the Bug Report Board. It has been a long long time since any of the bugs got a reply from a member of the TGC.

They are busy with the new products.

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SamKM
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Posted: 4th Sep 2013 22:52
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I have a feeling Lee might have something to say on Elite either on his blog or on the forums after FPSC Reloaded is finished... I totally get that they're busy with other projects, so I can't blame them at all if they shelve the idea, but I'm still hoping he's going to announce it's coming
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baxslash
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Posted: 6th Sep 2013 14:54
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The basic situation is that TGC need more sales to survive. They have learned from experience with Freedom Engine, FPSC Reloaded and from taking me on to make apps for Focus that they were spreading themselves too thin.

They had to focus on one or two core products (at least for the time being) until they were more solvent. FPSCR has the most potential to achieve that (trust me it does) which is why they went in that direction. AppGameKit has massive potential in growing markets which is why they went in that direction. DBPro is a fantastic tool which is one of the reasons they are using it for FPSCR but it would not be likely to make enough sales to be worth the investment at this time. I would have personally put money into developing AppGameKit enough to make it work for FPSCR and improved both of those products that way (FPSCR games could have been made cross platform that way too) but partly because they don't want DBPro/Elite to slowly bleed to death (and yes because FPSC is already coded in DBPro and Lee loves his baby) they used it for FPSCR.

It's a simple financial decision and not one that leaves DBP/E in the lurch. It's probably just the best way to ensure the survival of ALL of their products and the company.

[disclaimer] Of course this is just my opinion based on what I've seen and heard from the team. [/disclaimer]

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
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mr Handy
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Posted: 6th Sep 2013 15:22
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@baxslash
Honestly DBP now is a great tool, we just need a great games made with it. I've never seen a game here that used DBP by 100%. So Elite is a dream that will make all games here to be superb. Meanwhile in the Reality... Little Eggy That Could. In conclusion: we don't need Elite now, our skills are too low even for DBP. So Lee Bamber choosed wisely.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 6th Sep 2013 16:03
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Well I hope the FPSCR goes well.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 7th Sep 2013 17:38
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Quote: "In conclusion: we don't need Elite now, our skills are too low even for DBP. So Lee Bamber choosed wisely."


I agree with that. The shortcomings of DBPro don't hold me up - it's lack of time, ideas, etc, which are the problem for me.

But nice new features are always welcome.



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Clonkex
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Posted: 8th Sep 2013 07:38
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Quote: "I agree with that. The shortcomings of DBPro don't hold me up - it's lack of time, ideas, etc, which are the problem for me."


Same for me, except it's more about laziness than anything else


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Mage
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Posted: 8th Sep 2013 14:03
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For me Dark Basic is like a video game. I do a lot of gaming, but every once in a while I'll be playing the game I've made. I'll think up something new to add to it or creep away with some unfinished bits.

I've been doing that off and on since 2002.

It's very very far along, so it's like play Civilization? Not now, Battlefield... later, play my game... nope, minecraft... ok minecraft.

I treat DB like it's a video game, entertainment. Am I going to make a product? Nope it's obsolete. Just having fun.


In the future I might do a serious mobile game, and see if it banks any.

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Sph!nx
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Posted: 8th Sep 2013 14:50 Edited at: 8th Sep 2013 14:52
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Well, I work with DBP with great passion (for four years on the same project!) and have hope that after FPSC is done, we will get some news on the future of DBP.

Regards Sph!nx
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Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 04:30
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Quote: "Nope it's obsolete."


DBPro isn't obsolete. Why do you say it is?


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Mage
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 08:24
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Quote: "DBPro isn't obsolete. Why do you say it is?"

No DX11 support. Current versions of Windows don't ship with DX9.
No Modern UI support. No multi-threading support. Screen lost device deletes loaded media bug.

It's not useless, it just hasn't kept up with the times. It's lacking a number of modern technologies that make it obsolete.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 11:28 Edited at: 9th Sep 2013 11:29
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Quote: "Current versions of Windows don't ship with DX9."



Quote: "It's lacking a number of modern technologies that make it obsolete."

Please show me your project with super-duper graphics that lacks of 'DX11 cherry on top'.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 11:30
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Quote: "No DX11 support. Current versions of Windows don't ship with DX9.
No Modern UI support. No multi-threading support."


Ok, in those respects it's not exactly up-to-date, but it's hardly obsolete. I just have some questions:

Quote: "Current versions of Windows don't ship with DX9."


Since when does Windows ever ship with DirectX? And even if it does, I would never ever assume it's sufficient, and would always package the DX9 redistributable with my game/program.

Quote: "No Modern UI support."


As in...the awful Windows 8 Metro? Most game engines don't support that yet.

Quote: "No multi-threading support."


I have to agree with that point, although in a way I'm glad because there's no obligation for me to write multithreaded code for speed

Quote: "Screen lost device deletes loaded media bug."


That's a bug. It's not a designed feature, and thus doesn't fit in your argument.

Overall those are minor considerations and almost all can be worked around easily; DBPro is capable of easily producing modern, graphically rich games and deploying them on the most popular gaming platform (Windows) with little effort.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 11:48
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99% of all games that support DX>9 just have some extra effects. Rest 1% is Frostbite

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 18:18
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Grand Theft Auto 5 is a Direct X 9 video game

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mr Handy
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 19:53
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Quote: "Grand Theft Auto 5 is a Direct X 9 video game"

I bet it will have DX10/11/11+ effects as option

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 20:06
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Maybe; it just says 'System Requirement: DirectX 9.0'.

All of my recent favorite games run Direct X 9.0. (Not that I own GTA5).

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mr Handy
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 20:10
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Quote: "System Requirement: DirectX 9.0"

Means that game can run even on DX9 (what probably means Xbox360 and PS3 versions)

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 20:26 Edited at: 9th Sep 2013 20:28
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Quote: "Quote: "No multi-threading support."

I have to agree with that point, although in a way I'm glad because there's no obligation for me to write multithreaded code for speed"


Multi-threading is hardly necessary for most indie games; but if like me; you want multi-threading, you can either split the game into two processes or create a plugin, as is the case with multi-threaded plugins like Dark AI and Dark Lights.

I am doing quite fine playing Counter Strike GO at 60 FPS on a £200 PC with one of my two cores handling the whole game thanks...

Was it you who said not to blame the tools Mr Handy? Besides, DX11 programming is difficult.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 20:42
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PS3 uses OpenGL.......

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Mage
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 00:29
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Seems I made a controversial comment.
Ok here we go.

Quote: "Please show me your project with super-duper graphics that lacks of 'DX11 cherry on top'."

You can't make next-gen games, without access to more advanced effects and technologies.

Quote: "Since when does Windows ever ship with DirectX? And even if it does, I would never ever assume it's sufficient, and would always package the DX9 redistributable with my game/program."

Like every Windows since Windows98. The fact that you can bundle directx is very true. However the larger point here is that the ship has set sail. The fact they aren't providing it anymore in favor of its replacement shows it to be no longer a current technology.

Quote: "Grand Theft Auto 5 is a Direct X 9 video game "

It's being released on a console that came out in 2005. But that's not a fair comparison, if they release a PC version it'll be a DX11 title with possibly the option of stepping it down to DX9. That's a big difference from being Dx9 only.

Quote: "I am doing quite fine playing Counter Strike GO at 60 FPS on a £200 PC with one of my two cores handling the whole game thanks..."

That's an empty argument.


I'm not saying DB is useless, or that you can't commercialize with these handicaps. It's just out of date and largely missing more modern technologies. The gap is widening.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 01:05 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 01:15
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Quote: "You can't make next-gen games, without access to more advanced effects and technologies."

So to calculate 2+2 you need Cray-1. Please, enough.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 01:15 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 01:36
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Quote: "Quote: "I am doing quite fine playing Counter Strike GO at 60 FPS on a £200 PC with one of my two cores handling the whole game thanks..."
That's an empty argument."


Yes Mage. I was just stating to Handy that I am enjoying CSGO on a cheap Direct X 9 PC. I have made no comment regarding your statement about DBP being obsolete; I take that word to mean out of date as is stated in the dictionary. Hence why this thread exists? DBP is out of date; which is not the same thing as useless; which you indeed know.

I am guessing people take your statement to mean that DBP is deprecated. Windows 7 is out of date, doesn't mean that it is worse than Windows 8. Photoshop CS4 is out of date, doesn't mean that it is useless.

Quote: "It's being released on a console that came out in 2005. But that's not a fair comparison, if they release a PC version it'll be a DX11 title with possibly the option of stepping it down to DX9. That's a big difference from being Dx9 only."


Are you joking? I'm fully aware of that Mage; I've been studying the thing for so many years now... Should look brilliant in DX11 if it looks good in DX9; but I have been tracking its development and press statements day and night dude; and as you state it is DX9 by default for X-Box support; and PS3 Open GL sony build. I'm not a GTA fan, but I admire its development team's creativity and am impressed with its DX9 rendering. These guys know their tools. Some DX11 games don't look as good because their graphics-programmers are not brilliant at using their tools.

I am also aware that most of my AAA video games have DX9, 10, and 11 options; I play them everyday...

Please remember that I am one of the people who posted in this thread a desire for DX11 support. In no way do I want to support a DX9 tool for very long.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 01:37
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I understand that some local people are able to program a DX11 game engine, but come to think of it:
1) Lee should drop everything and rewrite whole DBP to help a few people here
2) If those few people are able to make a DX11 game engine, what stopping them from downloading DBP source and adding DX11 support?
3) If those few people are able to make a DX11 game engine, what stopping them from making that engine on C++?

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 01:41 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 01:43
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Interesting points lol. I don't think these people want to learn how to make a DX11 engine, it is cheaper to leave TGC to buy some other company's DX11 engine; does that sound reasonable?

Even I will have to buy another engine after a few projects get done, perhaps the next year or so will be my last here.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 01:45 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 01:53
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Quote: "does that sound reasonable?"

No. Because it is Frostbite

Quote: "Even I will have to buy another engine after a few projects get done"

Please post links on those projects. Interesting to see the maximum of DBP in action.

P.S. The only two guys I know here who do real graphics - Mike Inel and Evolved (but Evolved has not made a single game, so...). Will you be the third guy?

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Mage
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 02:29
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Quote: "Are you joking? I'm fully aware of that Mage..."

I think we agree on most points.

Quote: "So to calculate 2+2 you need Cray-1. Please, enough."

Well Ambient Occulsion, tesselation, newer shader model, ability to thread media loading so you can load in content live without stuttering gameplay, error handling so the game doesn't crash so easy. There's plenty mod but you get the idea.

Quote: "1) Lee should drop everything and rewrite whole DBP to help a few people here"

What Lee should do is a separate matter entirely. I totally get that rewriting Dark Basic isn't the best move for them at this point.


Sorry for any hurt feelings.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 02:31
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Yes I like Evolved and Mike Inel's stuff; and the guy who made Samuari Legend did pretty good.

I've got some way to go; but I believe in myself, and DBP; and HLSL, and Absolut Vodka. I'm working on videos, UI and AI at the moment but will let you know in a few months time. Most of my early work is on boring things like networking and UI; but I did spend a few months on shaders and 3D placeholder modelling.

The most difficult aspect of development for me personally, besides errors with no error messages, and class definition (I hate that)... The hardest thing in the world for me right now is to not look at my shaders, if I look at them that's it, I've had it; I would spend the next 24 hours without sleep improving them; they are like a drug. There is always a million things I want to do with them. They're not CryTech quality but they are too much fun to play with.

When its a shader development day, without fail I end up going to bed at 5 am. When it is core day (hours loads of compiling and changing things) I struggle to work any later than 11pm.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 02:49 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 03:03
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Quote: "Well Ambient Occulsion, tesselation, newer shader model, ability to thread media loading so you can load in content live without stuttering gameplay, error handling so the game doesn't crash so easy. There's plenty mod but you get the idea."

Okay, now please show me the DBP project that you think is in need of tesselation.

P.S. no offence to anyone, I just see that TGC is struggling with basic DX9 effects, when you here are talking like a Carmack. Local 'indie scene' is not ready even for DX10.

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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 08:28
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Quote: "DirectX features and pipeline, at least DX 10 if not 11"


DX10 IS CRAP it's the vista version ffs and in that era most games were still dx9. dx9>dx10 and dx11 doesen't run on xp.

Quote: "Well Ambient Occulsion, tesselation, newer shader model, ability to thread media loading so you can load in content live without stuttering gameplay, error handling so the game doesn't crash so easy. There's plenty mod but you get the idea."


Ambient Occlusion: Do you even SSAO? It's a shader effect and can run in dbp just fine.

Tesselation: Meh... Only needed in games like crysis 2 and dbp is not for SUPER AAA games like that

Newer shader model: Looking at the shader model feature comparison list, I think sm3.0 is enough for pretty much everything.

Media loading: idk I have never had that problem. there are plugins for multithreading.

Error handling: If your software crashes it's your fault. Although I do think a d3d device loss recovery thing would be nice, but you can make that yourself.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 10:47
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Quote: "DX10 IS CRAP "


I should stop studying it then I suppose... nah shall continue...

Quote: "Tesselation: Meh... Only needed in games like crysis 2 and dbp is not for SUPER AAA games like that"


Sigh... if only you knew...

Quote: "ability to thread media loading so you can load in content live without stuttering gameplay"


Already possible in DBPro I have it working already...

And for the record, DX11 is DX10+11...

Continue as you were

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Clonkex
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 11:20
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I know I participated initially, but really this "debate" (argument) is completely pointless. No one will change anyone else's opinions. But you're quite welcome to continue if you like; it's quite amusing


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MrValentine
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 12:11
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Haha it can continue up to and beyond the release of DBPro 2

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Sph!nx
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 13:30
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Amusement is not pointless!

Regards Sph!nx
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Mage
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 14:56
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Quote: "I know I participated initially, but really this "debate" (argument) is completely pointless. No one will change anyone else's opinions. But you're quite welcome to continue if you like; it's quite amusing "

Sure.

Quote: "Okay, now please show me the DBP project that you think is in need of tesselation."

Any scenes with massive amounts of ploys, like instead of having the game crap out at 100k there could be several million. Terrain, characters, architecture. It's an emmensely useful technology.


But it's not also about necessity it would just be nice to have access to it and a bunch of other things we're missing out on.


Quote: "Tesselation: Meh... Only needed in games like crysis 2 and dbp is not for SUPER AAA games like that"

That little nugget illustrates things quite well.


Quote: "Media loading: idk I have never had that problem. there are plugins for multithreading."


Quote: "Already possible in DBPro I have it working already..."

I'm talking about using a separate thread to load media. Not just Load Object or Load Image but converting meshes, physics plugins and animations, setting up shaders, and a ton of other stuff. There's been a few attempts at threading plugins, and alternative methods involving separate programs sharing memory. None of these really work well, are hard or in some cases impossible to implement depending on what you are trying to do or don't function well with plugins. It would be nice to have official support with that excellent level of quality that it brings. Right now the system is not written to be thread safe.


Quote: "Error handling: If your software crashes it's your fault. Although I do think a d3d device loss recovery thing would be nice, but you can make that yourself."

That's like the worst argument against error handling I ever read. There is no argument against error handling. If there was one thing they could add then that would be it. For example if I wanted to make an app that just displays my pictures like a photo album. The moment the app loads a corrupt image it crashes. There's tons or scenarios where you are flying blind with no way to crash proof. It would also make it less likely for bugs to crash games.


I like Dark Basic. I'm not about to stop playing around with it any time soon. But I will admit this thread exists because it's getting long in the tooth. It came out 11 years ago in 2002. Things have changed. I get that TGC has to work other priorities. I hope they revisit Dark Basic and/or even release some patches they've long teased us about.

More importantly I like you people. I like the help you've given me and I like helping you back. I know people are inactive for periods and sometimes we loose or gain people here. I just want to say that these years have been great. I still think the best years are ahead of us.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 15:08
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Quote: "The most difficult aspect of development for me personally, besides errors with no error messages, and class definition (I hate that)... The hardest thing in the world for me right now is to not look at my shaders, if I look at them that's it, I've had it; I would spend the next 24 hours without sleep improving them; they are like a drug. There is always a million things I want to do with them. They're not CryTech quality but they are too much fun to play with. "






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Clonkex
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 16:07
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Quote: "Amusement is not pointless!"


Good POINT!

Quote: "Any scenes with massive amounts of ploys, like instead of having the game crap out at 100k there could be several million. Terrain, characters, architecture. It's an emmensely useful technology."


Ok, that's it. I'm going to have to finally take the plunge and learn what tessellation actually does...

Quote: "That's like the worst argument against error handling I ever read."


LOL! I didn't even see that one!!

I just have to say that everyone that's posted here has managed to maintain their composure exceptionally well. So easily this could have become a flame war; well done everyone!


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Sph!nx
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 16:19 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 16:20
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Quote: "I just have to say that everyone that's posted here has managed to maintain their composure exceptionally well. So easily this could have become a flame war; well done everyone!"

I knew it wouldn't. You guys are great!

Regards Sph!nx
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MrValentine
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 19:09 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 19:20
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Sph!nx = Daddy for the day...

I do believe that my method works fine and is thread safe anyway... PM me if interested...

EDIT

Also regarding screen flush thingy I have a working project for that too... with a 99.99% catch in many scenarios...

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 20:39
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Quote: "with a 99.99% catch in many scenarios"


What's the catch rate in other scenarios? Do the other scenarios outnumber the "many scenarios"?



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MrValentine
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 21:43
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LOL, sometimes some methods that I have seen on here miss the flush events... My method worked in many tests that I did... And succeeded without fail...

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Mage
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 23:25 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 23:32
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http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=202959&b=1
I posted a solution to the lost screen device bug a while back. It even shows you how to safely animate the media reloading screen. It just sucks having to reload everything in the first place.


Quote: "I do believe that my method works fine and is thread safe anyway... PM me if interested..."

I'd be willing to take a look at your method.

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