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Geek Culture / My idea for federal social services

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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 10:23
Being a democracy, America is rather inefficient.

That's why a semi-communist services office would be very helpful. The government should make a federal social services website (fss.gov) for people to file requests. It would use tax money to provide matchmaking between citizens and all of the private services the country has to offer. The citizen would log in with their name and social security number and then fill out a brief online request form for a service to be selected for them. There would be a few options, such as college, employment, dating, and housing. The system would be automated and find the best school, job, companion, or apartment for the user. They would receive an email with the results of the automated process and contact information for whomever the 3rd party may be.

It would save everybody a lot of time so people could focus on being productive citizens.
bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 11:44 Edited at: 9th Aug 2012 11:45
How would the system choose a school for me? Do you think people are spending too much time trying to find a specific organization that they want to utilize?

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 9th Aug 2012 12:39
@Jerico-

Absolutely. In the case of a school, it would just locate all of the universities that have the major that you put down in order of proximity.
mr Handy
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 13:07
For example, I want to find a job for $1000 per day and nearby my house. System, let's imagine, has found two: nearby for $500 and further for $750. What answer will be? Null? Or list of jobs with particular matches? In both cases - fail.

bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 13:23 Edited at: 9th Aug 2012 13:24
Well google could do that, or any other website really. Why would the government need to provide a location service to people? I could find all the schools and a list of their majors in 10 minutes from anywhere in the US. It's not quite so simple when you're talking about other things like non-government assistance organizations, but even still, not exactly rocket science to call around.

The problem you'd be fixing is one of someone's time, and if you're in some sort of trouble where you need help, you're gonna spend a half an hour trying to fix it without really breaking a sweat, so it's not really a problem that you're fixing at all (cuz there is no problem). What problem are you seeing that made you think of this?

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 13:53
Also we've seen that any idea that includes the word "communist" or "socialist" is wrong, satanic and doesn't get votes...
Van B
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 14:21
So you want to tell your government exactly what your upto, no matter what it is, so they can help you avoid having to do any research yourself.

The 'New World Order' zealots will love that, in fact they'd probably make a special Facebook page for you! - telling all about how these evil plans can't be allowed to happen.

I dunno, personally I'm not sure I understand the significance of the communist undertones... it's like your trying to get some benefit from the darker aspects of communism but are dismissing the actual benefits of communism. For instance, asking the government for help in finding a partner, rather than asking them for help in finding a hospital that might treat people with no insurance... or asking for help finding a well paid job, rather than just asking them to assign you an appropriate job. Entitlement and communist values don't gel together, and your idea appears to favor the former.

I'm not saying your idea is about entitlement of course, what I'm saying is that it sounds like an idea for a generic help website, where you can be referred to appropriate bodies who can help with specific issues. It's not really a communist thing at all, and maybe it would be better to avoid political categorisation. Having a 1 stop advice/referral system is a good idea, I'm sure some less technically or socially savvy people would really benefit - but assigning your idea a political standpoint is probably not gonna help it.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
xplosys
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 14:47
Is there anything else you would like the government to do for you? Perhaps it could tell you where to eat lunch, of where to send your kids to school, or what movie to go see tonight. I mean, what else does it have to do anyway?

Brian.

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

Quik
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 15:45
Quote: "school, job, companion, or apartment for the user"


This apartment thingy we swedes have: "Skebo", i sign up, tell them around where i want to live, what price range and how big the apartment should be - and they will tell me about once a month about apartments I could get.

school, job... why? oh.. yeah.. you guys dont have "AF or ArbetsFörmedlingen" which is basicly a help for getting jobs.
People can "put up annotations" to AF, you can browse them, go to AF for meetings and stuff, sometimes comapanies will go to AF and demonstrate their business, you can go there and introduce yourself and stuff.

as for school, how would that work?



Whose eyes are those eyes?
bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 16:10
Oh we have something very similar to that in my state in the US. I'm sure the same thing or similar is available in other states as well. It's called Job Service. They offer very nice services. Classes, job events, training. They'll help you build a resume/CV, and their website is the place to go to look for job openings.

Quik
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 16:25
Oh you do? I was under the impression you didnt, sorry for making that conclution x)



Whose eyes are those eyes?
BatVink
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 18:37
Quote: "Being a democracy, America is rather inefficient.
That's why a semi-communist services office would be very helpful"


So it is more efficient to replace all of the dating services available with one service, created by a government? The only efficiency is going to one service. But as there is no competition, this service will be inferior. The choices will not be as accurate as they are in a market-lead field for the service, whereby if it's rubbish, it fails.

A Dating service is a good example. For every one that succeeds in an open market there will be at least 100 that fail. Statistically your government-run service is a failure. Because there is no competition, it doesn't have to innovate and is worse than those that fail in an open market. True efficiency (finding a valid match) is significantly less than the open market.

Have you ever wondered why the quality of life is lower in communist states? There is the same potential to generate wealth, but it doesn't happen. It has nothing to do with the state taking everything, there is a saturation point in this respect that was reached long ago. The technology lags and thus the economy lags too.

bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 18:51 Edited at: 9th Aug 2012 18:52
The government does well when there's competition. Look at the post office. Though it does happen, I've never lost mail. I get most mail within 2-5 days, usually 2, always in good condition, and the postal workers are very nice and they're cheaper than fedex and UPS. Now that's maybe not true in all markets in the US, but that's the case where I live. So my carrier of choice is a no-brainer. If fedex or UPS didn't exist, I can guarantee the post office wouldn't be as good as it is.

DJ Almix
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 19:03
Quote: "For example, I want to find a job for $1000 per day and nearby my house. System, let's imagine, has found two: nearby for $500 and further for $750. What answer will be? Null? Or list of jobs with particular matches? In both cases - fail."


http://www.usajobs.gov/

Kind of the same thing


xplosys
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 19:04
Quote: "If fedex or UPS didn't exist, I can guarantee the post office wouldn't be as good as it is."


Very true. Even as good as it is, it operates at a loss, whereas UPS and FedEx operate at a profit. The government doesn't see profit, or lack thereof, as a business problem since they have an unlimited source of money. (Not really, but they think they do.)

Brian.

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 19:35
Quote: "Very true. Even as good as it is, it operates at a loss, whereas UPS and FedEx operate at a profit. The government doesn't see profit, or lack thereof, as a business problem since they have an unlimited source of money. (Not really, but they think they do.)"


That's actually not USPSs fault. They are required to operate on it's own but congress has tied their hands on raising prices among many other things that they want to change, and so they cannot make the money they need to operate at a profit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/opinion/nocera-free-the-post-office.html

mr Handy
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 19:49
Quote: "http://www.usajobs.gov/

Kind of the same thing"


OMG. I saw wages for programmers. 5 times higher. Minimum. I want to live in USA now. Tomorrow I will pack my clothes and leave here.

Matty H
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 19:58
I have been a part time postman in the UK for 6 years and this debate is interesting to me because I have seen the good and bad of competition as Royal Mail undergoes changes due to competition or globalization or whatever(parasitic monetary system perhaps).

Being a postman used to be a really good gig, you would finish early most days, the pay was good and the job was secure. But it could be seen as being very inefficient, some people used to do two shifts and finish them both in the time it took to do a single shift. One guy I knew was coming home with two wages every week without really ever doing any overtime

This is the perhaps the main problem with public services, there is not really a desire to become more efficient.

Now we have competition and we are mostly working all our contracted hours. Lots of people have lost their jobs due to sorting machines and Royal Mail is back in profit.

So capitalism works and we all win?

Well almost, we now have lots of workers being contracted to less hours than it takes to do their jobs, leading to a lot of job dissatisfaction. I had to have fight my corner today to finish to my contracted hours and not take the extra mail we are supposed to take 'if' we have time.

Also, there used to be a kind of postman 'code' where every item was always delivered, this has been eroded somewhat. It's a shame but the service we provide is not as good, I don't think it's reached the point where customers are noticing this on any large scale but that could happen soon.


I think this story is very common, my nephew just started a job in a sports shop and they are already arguing over ÂŁ150 worth of overtime they said he never did. They also contract him to 8pm but expect him to stay until 9pm to tidy, this is the source of the disputed overtime.

Competition is also inefficient as a whole, you could have 10 businesses all spending time and resources setting up, hiring people, operating at a loss until perhaps there is 2 or 3 left, running efficiently perhaps, or perhaps paying lower wages, or perhaps some of both.

I'm going on a bit. I will just say that I am pro capitalist and pro competition. But to ignore its obvious deficiencies would be a mistake, something is wrong where machines can take our jobs, freeing up peoples time and resources, yet we are more in debt than ever, the jobless are treated as second class citizens instead of being seen as liberated from work by machines

I put some of the blame at the monetary system, but I have said enough about that in other threads

Libervurto
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 21:15
Capitalism is self-destructive. It works great in the beginning but it inevitably creates an imbalance that brings the whole economy to a halt. Inflation just prolongs the death of the economy.
But with Socialism, how do we motivate people in the first place? I don't think there would be a problem with science and art because people are naturally driven to do those things, but what about the less desirable jobs? The only way I can think of is to instil Patriotism, that we all play an important role and can take pride in our nation's achievements. Look at the Olympics for example, we might not have a direct effect on producing athletes but we all contribute to the system that produced them so we can be proud as members of the society.
The problem with Communism/Socialism in the past is that rulers use this ideology to dictate what each person's role should be in society and what they are entitled to, but I think Socialism is inevitable for all developed societies and hopefully we can do it with real equality this time.

If you think about it a Capitalist Democracy makes no sense: what good is a vote if money is power? With a Socialist Democracy we share the wealth and the power. Then we might start judging success by what people actually contribute to society in terms of productivity, culture, scientific research, education and care, instead of how much useless tat they peddle and usury.

Shh... you're pretty.
Kezzla
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 21:50
there is no solution that will please everyone.

The solution I like is the communal martial arts monk system. where you train hard, work hard and help others because you can.

there is no solution that will please everyone, but I think the world would be a better place if everyone studied martial arts and its associated philosophy.

I just train hard, work hard and help others when i can and since i started doing that my life has become simple, calm and easy.

When I look at the world I do not see simple calm and easy.

I have long held that a human only needs four things to live a healthy happy life. Food, water, shelter and something to do.

finding a way to help people realize this for themselves would be a nice social service. however people seem to mistake it for spiritualism which gets their cranky pants on right from go.

Maybe all we need is a nice cup of tea!
tea for everyone!

in a mug!

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
BatVink
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 22:32
Quote: "Competition is also inefficient as a whole, you could have 10 businesses all spending time and resources setting up, hiring people, operating at a loss until perhaps there is 2 or 3 left, running efficiently perhaps, or perhaps paying lower wages, or perhaps some of both."


Adam Smith proposed the idea of the Invisible Hand. It actually makes what you have described a very efficient way of finding the balance in the market. Yes, there is a small period of inefficiency when a new technology arises, but the reason why you always pay a similar price for a bag of sugar wherever you go, and are reasonably content to pay the price, is down to the Invisible Hand.

Bootlicker
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Posted: 9th Aug 2012 23:24
The idea sounds flawed completely in my opinion, if you enter your details and they are poor since you live in a poor area with poor education, employment, healthcare etc. Then the system will match you with others who are poor and locate you with a poor job and housing which would lead to a higher concentration of poverty therefore amplifying the effect in surrounding areas and creating ghettos.

It is the symbol of capitalism, you start at the very bottom and have to work your way up by any means necessary, if the entire country was demolished and every single house built identical and all people receiving the same education it would work better, yet would still be inefficient due to personal situations.

Maybe I misinterpreted your idea, but thats what I got from it.

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2012 10:11
I can't keep track of all of these posts, so let me clarify what I meant based on the first few.

I threw in the word "communist" because I had recently spoken to someone from Russia, which is still a communist country. He is an average citizen, and his quality of living is a lot better than mine, plus whenever he needs something, he can ask his government. In contrast, here in Oregon I don't even qualify for welfare, even though I have no job and no way to support myself, and my savings are mostly burnt through.

I did not intend for this website to be a total replacement for other similar services out there, such as usajobs.gov or various dating services, but simply as competition. In the style of what would have been Obama's awesome healthcare bill, this website would force the prices down on any competing services, and possibly destroy paid online services altogether. That's a very good thing for the average American citizen, who cannot afford another single expense in this economy.

With regard to proximity VS quality, I honestly didn't give that part a lot of thought. People should live in the big cities where there are a lot of things available. I live in a fairly large town right now, and it has just about everything, but there is no authority to tell me what to do, so when I'm bored and feeling sorry for myself, I have no direction. To further clarify, this service's main purpose would be to make things easier, so whatever services are the closest, cheapest, and easiest to get ahold of/negotiate with would be favored. That doesn't mean "best", it simply means easiest. Of course, in the case of jobs and such, multiple would be listed.

The whole idea for this came to me a couple years ago, and it was mainly to do with matchmaking. Type in your personal details, such as age, race, height, weight, physical location, gender, and sexual preference, and a mate is logically selected for you. It might work by a system of a "hotness scale" in which physical attractiveness is estimated by the system, and narrowing down the choices to whoever is on the same integer level as you, on a scale of 1 to 10. If you're a 9, you're with a 9; if you're a 3, you're with a 3.

And that about sums it up.
BatVink
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Posted: 10th Aug 2012 11:56
Quote: " It might work by a system of a "hotness scale" in which physical attractiveness is estimated by the system, and narrowing down the choices to whoever is on the same integer level as you, on a scale of 1 to 10. If you're a 9, you're with a 9; if you're a 3, you're with a 3."


You just created a system that suits your own personal criteria. World War II was started by a guy that thought everyone should live by his standards. It's also the reason why the Conservative government fail in the UK, they apply Macroeconomics and believe that everyone wants the same thing, to the absolute exclusion of microeconmoics.

Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 10th Aug 2012 14:05
@BatVink-

1) I have created a system that will at least appeal to the male demographic. It is also quite logical.

2) HEIL RABBITSFUHRER!

3) I am not using England as a model. I agree that some aspects of their government are major failures. I believe Russia would be a closer model.
bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Aug 2012 14:49
Quote: " I live in a fairly large town right now, and it has just about everything, but there is no authority to tell me what to do, so when I'm bored and feeling sorry for myself, I have no direction. "


That's not the government's job. The role of government is to provide services and protection for its citizens.

Matty H
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Posted: 10th Aug 2012 17:57
Quote: "Adam Smith proposed the idea of the Invisible Hand. It actually makes what you have described a very efficient way of finding the balance in the market. Yes, there is a small period of inefficiency when a new technology arises, but the reason why you always pay a similar price for a bag of sugar wherever you go, and are reasonably content to pay the price, is down to the Invisible Hand."


I agree, the inefficiency is a price worth paying for the freedom that comes with it.

Although I fear that too often it becomes a race to the bottom, hence Royal Mail letting the provided service slip somewhat.

As for a dating site, I don't see why the government should have a role in matching its citizens, there are people who would view this as pretty a perverse state of affairs

Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 10th Aug 2012 20:59
@Jerico-

I don't see how this isn't a service. This is called the "information age" for a reason.

@Matty-

I completely agree with you, except for your comments on government dating. If we think of dating as something we're entitled to, like watching a movie, then FSS would provide yet another form of entertainment. No more would one have to "look". One could just decide at what point they want a companion, if at all. Plus, one could just type in the length of relationship they're looking for and be hooked up with people who are interested in the same thing.
Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 10th Aug 2012 21:11
We americans are not stupid and know how to find a school,and or any other services,with that being said, when the gps system came out it was a million dollar idea for car industries but not for people. Most people dont even use them.

I think we as a people are doing fine in finding thing's as such as services.But, you can always try it just like the Gps system, and see where it takes you, most would say there is no need for face book, but so far, I have contacted 2 of my older sons on it reuniting us, so there could just be a need for it and I just dont see it.

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Aug 2012 21:19 Edited at: 10th Aug 2012 21:19
Quote: "I don't see how this isn't a service. This is called the "information age" for a reason."


Yes finding something for you to do when you're bored is definitely a service. But how on Earth could such a service be appropriate for the government to administer? Let's start with universal healthcare and everything else that's more important first. Anyone who can't find something to do just doesn't know how to apply their skills (or they don't have the skills) to create new things/ideas.

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 10th Aug 2012 22:12
@Daniel-

That's a fairly neutral opinion, although I am not describing a social networking site. My idea takes the social factor out of the process, making everything easier and faster.

@Jerico-

Creativity is an entirely different skillset from using resources. I could draw a 50-story mech warrior that shoots proton bombs and lasers, but I could never put together a team of people to build it. Similarly, I could go on and on about the perfect job, but such a job may be very hard to find. This service would get rid of any pointless roadblocks, such as interpersonal communication, money, and hours of availability.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 11th Aug 2012 01:04
Finding anything is as easy as it gets these days. We don't need another federal agency taking our money, telling us what to do.

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