Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Is there any limit to how hot something can get?

Author
Message
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 13th Aug 2012 12:28 Edited at: 13th Aug 2012 12:30
Link
This is a pretty simple thing I have wondered over for some time... Of course, now scientists are rather uncertain with the neutrino and all that, but in theory, the speed of light is the maximum speed at which any matter may travel. Temperature is related directly with the speed of the atoms vibrating in an object. So in theory, as an object were to become hotter and hotter, the atoms inside of it would eventually reach the speed of light and no longer be able to move faster, thereby rendering the object unable to absorb any more thermal energy. That would create a limit on the temperature. Would this be true? Assuming that the speed of light was the absolute fastest something could travel, are there any other factors that could affect maximum possible temperature?

Also, do different materials have different speeds of atoms for same temperatures? Say I have two objects, both heated up to 500C and one is made of lead, the other aluminium. Would the atoms in the two objects be at the same speed?

Just somethings I have always been curious about and I thought I'd like to share! What are the forumite's opinions on this?

Your signature has been erased by a signature. Please reduce it to a non negative feedback inducing signature.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Neuro Fuzzy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Jun 2007
Location:
Posted: 13th Aug 2012 13:20
Link
Heheh, I was actually wondering about this pretty recently. The speed of light doesn't impose any limits on temperature. A particle can have an infinite amount of energy from its motion. These are good articles on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_temperature
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/absolute-hot.html

Zany stuff... Pretty much every prediction has something to do with a theory of everything. The answer is definitely "no" as far as I'm concerned with temperatures xD

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 13th Aug 2012 13:54
Link
Ooh my dearz! I'll look at those links in about 9 hours or so!

Your signature has been erased by a signature. Please reduce it to a non negative feedback inducing signature.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Matty H
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2008
Location: England
Posted: 13th Aug 2012 15:04
Link
I could be wrong but I was under the impression there is no such thing as temperature

I thought what we perceived as temperature is really just movement which is also equivalent to energy. Using my understanding temperature would be limited the same way as speed is, although my understanding may be incorrect.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Diggsey
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Apr 2006
Location: On this web page.
Posted: 13th Aug 2012 15:33 Edited at: 13th Aug 2012 19:46
Link
Also, energy density is limited by gravity. As soon as you get a high enough energy, the entire system collapses into a black hole. There's a whole lot of interesting physics about the relationship between gravity, energy and information. Since energy and information are related (see entropy) gravity effectively limits the amount of information it's possible to have in any region of space.

What's really interesting is that the amount of information you can store is proportional to the surface area of that space, not the volume. The reasoning behind this is actually quite simple: since entropy can only increase, information cannot be destroyed. A black hole is the upper limit on energy in a region of space (if you add any more energy, the black hole's event horizon expands keeping the ratio between surface area and energy constant) and the only place information can be stored in a black hole is in the fluctuations of its event horizon, and its event horizon can only store energy proportional to its area.

All in all, this means that although we perceive the universe as 3d, everything in it could actually be encoded in 2d on the surface of a sphere. This could mean our entire universe is actually the inside of a black hole in another universe.

[b]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matty H
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2008
Location: England
Posted: 13th Aug 2012 17:33
Link
Quote: "as 2d, everything in it could actually be encoded in 2d "


You mean 3d, typo?

Thanks for that Diggsey. Leonard Susskind famously argued with Hawkins over this and Hawkins had to back down. All I know about it is what I seen on tv here:



I will watch this again later, very interesting.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Diggsey
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Apr 2006
Location: On this web page.
Posted: 13th Aug 2012 20:36
Link
Quote: "You mean 3d, typo?"


Fixed

[b]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Kezzla
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2008
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 13th Aug 2012 20:45
Link
for some reason this thread reminds me of a Simpsons moment.

Quote: "Can jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?"


Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
Back to top
Profile PM
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 14th Aug 2012 00:23
Link
@Diggsey Impressive stuff there! Rather interesting indeed!

Quote: ""Can jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?""
That's hilarious.xD

Your signature has been erased by a signature. Please reduce it to a non negative feedback inducing signature.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Phaelax
DBPro Master
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 14th Aug 2012 02:45 Edited at: 14th Aug 2012 02:50
Link
Quote: " but in theory, the speed of light is the maximum speed at which any matter may travel"


Not anymore, scientists did push something at a greater speed earlier this year. I just forget what it was.


Quote: "Also, do different materials have different speeds of atoms for same temperatures? Say I have two objects, both heated up to 500C and one is made of lead, the other aluminium. Would the atoms in the two objects be at the same speed?"


No, they are two different metals and have different melting points. You change the structure of the metal once it reaches a certain temperature, which depends on the type of metal.

Also, from the article about absolute hot talking about the core of the sun as being the hottest thing most people know, the surface is much hotter than its core.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Neuro Fuzzy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Jun 2007
Location:
Posted: 14th Aug 2012 03:02 Edited at: 14th Aug 2012 03:24
Link
Quote: "the surface is much hotter than its core."

Hmm? I can't find any articles on that, and it doesn't even make sense

Quote: "Also, do different materials have different speeds of atoms for same temperatures? Say I have two objects, both heated up to 500C and one is made of lead, the other aluminium. Would the atoms in the two objects be at the same speed?"

That's an interesting question... In chemistry you deal with the specific heat of materials - it's much easier to heat up aluminum to 50C than to heat a brick up to 50C. I'm not sure what this means for heat. But, since heat is a measure of the kinetic energy of a solid, I'm going to guess: No, it depends on the mass and chemical structure of the molecules (because I think temperature can depend on the internal vibrations of a molecule?)

It's surprising how little I know about heat xD

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Indicium
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 14th Aug 2012 03:17
Link
Other way round, the surface of the sun is relatively cool compared to the core.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
Profile PM
RedneckRambo
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Oct 2006
Location: Worst state in USA... California
Posted: 14th Aug 2012 03:40 Edited at: 14th Aug 2012 03:41
Link
Quote: "Not anymore, scientists did push something at a greater speed earlier this year. I just forget what it was."

http://gizmodo.com/5908206/did-scientists-really-just-break-the-speed-of-light
I believe this is what you were speaking of?
Quote: "What the scientists are observing here is the propagation of a small scrap of information—so nothing with any matter—moving slightly faster than the speed of light."

This is a quote from the article. So I wouldn't really say that we have broken the speed of light, just yet at least.

Words cannot describe my Greatness... But I'll give it a shot.

I am awesome....... Yeah, that works.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Neuro Fuzzy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Jun 2007
Location:
Posted: 14th Aug 2012 03:47
Link
Quote: "You see, this in fact quantum data: it's not a neat binary bit, a one or a zero, but a blurry mess that could take any value. What's more, we have no control over it."

And random 'information' at that!

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Phaelax
DBPro Master
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 14th Aug 2012 06:03
Link
Quote: "[quote]the surface is much hotter than its core."

Hmm? I can't find any articles on that, and it doesn't even make sense[/quote]

I must've been mistaken. I attempted to look also. The core is the hottest, but I think I know what confused me. The temperatures obviously decrease as you get away from the core, but the corona has extremely high temperatures, well beyond the rest of the surface, and scientists aren't sure why. I think maybe that's why I was thinking the corona was the hottest.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Phaelax
DBPro Master
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 14th Aug 2012 23:17
Link
Thought this was an interesting coincidence. Scientists generate temperatures over 5 trillian degrees. Now the slashdot article title says temperature in kelvin. The actual article doesn't state it, but comments say its in celsius. So I'm not really sure. Either way, its way hotter than the sun!

http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/08/14/1912254/cern-physicists-generate-hottest-man-made-temperatures-ever-55-trillion-k

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Indicium
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 15th Aug 2012 00:43
Link
Kelvin and Celsius are the same bar 273 degrees, so it doesn't really matter.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
Profile PM
fallen one
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Aug 2006
Location: My imagination!
Posted: 15th Aug 2012 01:04 Edited at: 15th Aug 2012 01:05
Link
Quote: "All in all, this means that although we perceive the universe as 3d, everything in it could actually be encoded in 2d on the surface of a sphere. This could mean our entire universe is actually the inside of a black hole in another universe."

Thats like the Disney film - The Black Hole, which I just watched again after a few decades in between viewings.
the bit at (spolier)...



Back to top
Profile PM Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 15th Aug 2012 14:45 Edited at: 15th Aug 2012 14:46
Link
Quote: "All in all, this means that although we perceive the universe as 3d, everything in it could actually be encoded in 2d on the surface of a sphere. This could mean our entire universe is actually the inside of a black hole in another universe."


That's interesting, because if the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate away from us in all directions, it might actually be that the sphere you're talking about is blowing up like a balloon. Any two points on this sphere would be moving away at an accelerating rate.

darkBIT TGC Torrent Tracker / File Server - AGK Chat: #agk : irc.devhat.net
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matty H
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2008
Location: England
Posted: 15th Aug 2012 16:10
Link
Quote: "it might actually be that the sphere you're talking about is blowing up like a balloon. Any two points on this sphere would be moving away at an accelerating rate."


Good observation. Would be cool if this was somehow true.

I only found out recently that that is how the universe expands, like a rubber band, or as you say, the surface of a balloon. I used to think things were just moving away since that was the direction they were travelling in but the reality is so much more interesting.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 15th Aug 2012 16:32
Link
Quote: "Good observation. Would be cool if this was somehow true. "


It could be. It was brought to my attention by Carl Sagan in Cosmos. The science might have changed and that might not be the prevailing theory any more. I dunno. I just thought of it when Diggsey mentioned the black hole.

darkBIT TGC Torrent Tracker / File Server - AGK Chat: #agk : irc.devhat.net
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Phaelax
DBPro Master
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 15th Aug 2012 17:51
Link
So when this universal balloon expands large enough, what happens when it pops?

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Neuro Fuzzy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Jun 2007
Location:
Posted: 15th Aug 2012 21:34
Link
The four-dimensional creature contained inside it will be released upon the universe

Back to top
Profile PM Email
TheComet
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 16th Aug 2012 20:11
Link
Quote: "Is there any limit to how hot something can get?"


Not with me.

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 17th Aug 2012 02:51
Link
Oooh you wish.

Your signature is being eras
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-05-18 04:50:32
Your offset time is: 2025-05-18 04:50:32