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Geek Culture / On Ultraviolence in Games, and the Lessons of Porn

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TheComet
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 21:43
It's interesting you should say that, because I found this : http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/plotFARQ.html

TheComet

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bitJericho
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 21:57
The 36 plots is actually very helpful when you're searching for ideas.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 22:16 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 22:17
Xplosys:

If you prefer that as an analysis, you're welcome to use it.

The way I understood these different plots is that you have:
Man - a person, somebody of certain intelligence. Sometimes we might call an android a synthetic man. You might have these 2 entities against each other. Anything that can resemble or represent a man. So Man against man.

Man against nature. It's is not like man against man or man against cyber-Schwarznegger. Nature can be disease, it could be a wild animal but if you were to use anthropomorphism, I would say the wild animal would be on the plot device of man against man, like Animal Farm.

Man against himself. This isn't the same as man against man, because these are personal conflicts. It could be self hate or even an internal journey. Heck, Jane Austin's Emma has this, because the character of Emma quite frequently had internal conflicts because she'd often reflect upon her self and criticise herself for certain things.

Man against God, this would be a fight based around faith. A man against God story could pose some similarities with the others. Ultimate I see this one as being about faith. I could be a story about a man who's lost his faith (or gets it back again), but it could also literally involve God. Heck, Bruce lost his faith in Bruce Almighty, but it took Morgan Freeman as God to help get it back.

Man against society.
Society is actually an abstract. You might wish to argue that society is made up of people and therefore they are fighting the people. To a degree such stories may have the 2 plots go side by side. In the case of the Don Herzfeldt cartoon, there are no people Don is fighting against, it is norms in society, which makes his cartoons rejected. So it's the ideals of society he's fighting again. The only character is the animator. 1984 on the other hand, it's a fight against society and big brother.

Man caught in the middle
. There's no against here. In Don Herzfeldt's Rejected, there is a stick man with a spoon and a bowl, he is not 'against' anything and nothing is against him, but he is caught between a meal and the means to eat that meal, as his spoon is too big. Hence, caught in the middle.

Man and woman.
That's more of a coming together than a going against.

I'm sure you could compile them all down into one, I think somebody said, "something happens to someone", but I think it'd miss the point of the literary analysis. The idea of the 7 basic plots is to not say, "this is how unoriginal writing is" nor is it to say "this is how easy it is", or to make wild claims, it's to provide points for literary analysis by providing some very basic plot points that could be used as part of an analysis. Heck, it might even be useful for writers to think about their own plots. But there's all sorts of ways you can summarise parts of your story or even in thinking about how you're going to write the story.

What you do to achieve that? It's up to the writer or critic.


[edit]Looks like Comet beat me to something this time.

Quik
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 22:19
Quote: "Man and woman. That's more of a coming together than a going against. "


While I see why the name is like that..
Man and woman - could just aswell be man and man, woman and man...
Well, no matter, just bugged me a bit x)



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 22:22 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 22:22
Quote: "While I see why the name is like that..
Man and woman - could just aswell be man and man, woman and man...
Well, no matter, just bugged me a bit x)"


No worries, I picked up on it earlier. I believe there is a version that accounts for the fact it's not always just between a man and a woman .

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2012 23:57 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2012 23:57
Quote: "But it's not wrong.

Unless you're able to do this:

Quote: "
Interesting thought, I wonder how true it is. Can anyone think of a film where none of these can apply? ""


You guys don't give up. OK wait 10 years then. Then I don't need to bother replying as you will all agree with me.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 00:26
That's a bit condescending don't you think? If you're going to use this, "I am right and you're wrong because I am a genius ahead of his time" nonsense, then there's absolutely no point even engaging you in a civil discussion about any given topic. I've not said anything to condescend to you, to insult you, to belittle you or anything like that. I really do not like arrogance, but I have mainly given you the benefit of the doubt because I try to be a tolerant person and of course, people have been bashing you for it and I think it's completely unnecessary to go around bashing people.

However, the fact you resorted to that suggests you have no cards to play. If have no cards, why not just say so? It doesn't mean you have to agree, it just means you're not knowledgable enough on the topic to go further or maybe you've given all you have to offer. I mean a person can't know everything. Why is it people have to end a discussion so disingenuously?

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 00:32 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 00:34
Quote: "However, the fact you resorted to that suggests you have no cards to play. If have no cards, why not just say so? It doesn't mean you have to agree, it just means you're not knowledgable enough on the topic to go further or maybe you've given all you have to offer. I mean a person can't know everything. Why is it people have to end a discussion so disingenuously?"


I played the cards, in 10 years science will play the same cards. You will simply accept science, because it is science.

The cards are that plot is being used incorrectly it needs fixing. Waste of time repeating it, but science will.

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 00:43 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 00:45
Quote: "You will simply accept science, because it is science."

Would you mind explaining the connection between "plots" and "science?"

Quote: "sci·ence/ˈsīəns/
Noun:
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural..."

Quote: "Plot is a literary term defined as the events that make up a story, particularly as they relate to one another in a pattern, in a sequence, through cause and effect, how the reader views the story, or simply by coincidence."


Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 00:53 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 00:57
The connection is that plot can be broken down into a formula. A formula of variables, a logic tree. When that formula is applied to a book, or film the tree will have many branches. The part where man meets woman will not have any excessive meaning over other parts of the book, or film. We as humans give this part a false meaning, as it relates to major parts of our own lives. This false tag can be removed systematically. The events become intertwined, looped, and none linear. The path from man to woman is not a straight line. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 become 301,305,302,288,326,547. For the man to get to the woman is total chaos.

Plot.. man meets woman

is digital not analogue. It's not even the right line. Nobody starts a book "Man meets woman." And a plot is what you start with.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 00:53 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 00:56
What does literary analysis have to do with science? Literature is abstract, the only thing physical about it is the paper it's printed on and the ink it's printed with.

This has absolutely nothing to do with science.

[edit]
Literature is an art form, it is not based on logic. Science isn't logic either.

Logic is mathematics and philosophy. Yes, science uses logic and mathematics to perform calculations and predictions, but:
Logic != Science

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 00:59
Dynamics of music, dynamics of books, dynamics of people walking down the street, odd things connect together, you would be surprised.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 01:04
Yes, but writing a novel, or providing a critical analysis of one requires no science. The 7 basic plots is about analysing ideas, not providing scientific data. You could create science based on arts, but to create or talk about or even define the arts requires nothing scientific. You're just shifting goalposts.

Quik
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 01:07
Quote: "Nobody starts a book "Man meets woman.""


Dude... there's several mangas/animes that revolves JUST around the fact that person a bumps into person b <usually in the firs minute of the anime> person a falls in love with person b.
Category for that is called "Sudden girlfriend appearence". The whole plot revolves about those two getting together. how is that NOT "man meets woman"?



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 01:10 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 01:23
Quote: "Yes, but writing a novel, or providing a critical analysis of one requires no science. The 7 basic plots is about analysing ideas, not providing scientific data. You could create science based on arts, but to create or talk about or even define the arts requires nothing scientific. You're just shifting goalposts."


There are no 7 basic plots. The chaos has been removed, you no longer have a book, so you no longer have a plot for a book.

I break a window, a build a sand castle. A sand castle is not a plot for a window.

Quote: "The whole plot revolves about those two getting together. how is that NOT "man meets woman"?"


Yes that is. If someone has a plot, man meets woman, then that is the correct plot. It would be a bit unimaginative.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 01:28 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 01:29
That analogy doesn't even work, it doesn't even relate to what has been discussed.. I am not going to persue this any further, because I don't want to see it wasting both of our time even more.

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 01:58
Man creates thread, everyone becomes unhappy.

Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 02:35
I believe Pincho has evolved to the point where his own version of English is more correct than everyone else's. Let's just wait ten years, like he suggests, and see if Oxford realizes their mistake and fixes the definition of "plot" to Pincho's more correct version.

Silly Oxford. Thinking they have authority over words. When will they learn.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 03:05
Well, I just read the last page of this thread.

Who is the guy who runs the forum? I honestly need some form of Ignore list to remove Pincho's posts.

Pincho, I won't look at these posts in ten years' time to ascertain your horrifically bloated ego that seems to be inflated by nothing more than an abstract and unfounded superiority complex.

You are a joke to so many you attempt to persuade in your somewhat irritating mission to prove that you are infinitely superior to us mere mortals, and are a genius.

If you're a genius, why are you on a programming forum telling us the ideas? Oh, because you're nothing...that's why.

Please, just discuss the damn topic, and shut up about your made-up theories, your hatred of any well-accepted...anything. You are simply a very egotistical, very annoying hipster, and this is the last post I write that even acknowledges your existence.

Have fun pretending to be better than everyone here to compensate for your likely disappointment in a failed life. I've simply had it with humouring you and being polite.
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 03:07 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 03:16
Pincho... You can interpret anything how you want to, however, just because you interpret it that way, doesn't mean you're right. Because in fact, you are horribly wrong. I'm not going to bother arguing but you obviously just don't get it and that's fine.

My favorite part was "the dictionary is wrong sometimes." LOL. Just because you think a word means something else, doesn't mean it does... It just means you don't know said definition.

I'm actually truly worried about your mental health. You refuse to accept even the most basic things in life and have some strange twist to fit your own imagination and actually truly believe that the rest of the world is wrong and that you are the only sane one. It is at the point where it is honestly sad, yet also horribly annoying because of your ego. It's truly embarrassing. But whatever I've met a few crazier people. Not many though.

Words cannot describe my Greatness... But I'll give it a shot.

I am awesome....... Yeah, that works.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 04:46
CoffeeGrunt, I can understand your frustration and the desire to put him in his place, but don't you think you're being a bit harsh? Maybe I'm too soft. But telling something their life is a failure could kinda hit somebody where it hurts. Whilst the guy is arrogant in his own claims and makes condescending remarks, but as far as I can see he's not made personal attacks. Yes, his, "you will understand in 10 years" was kind of insulting as I do feel like it was an insult to my intelligence. Though I don't think it got any more personal than that. In that respect, yes, retaliation is to be expected, but I don't agree that people should try and make him feel small. By all means ignore him in the future if he bugs you that much, I know I'll avoid any discussions like that one, because if I enter a discussion like this one, I expect to walk out not feeling like it was a waste of time - I don't come expecting to be victorious either.

You may feel your comments are justified, so that's up to you, I by no means wish to dictate how somebody expresses opinions. I know the AUP does, but I am not a moderator.

Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 04:49
Quote: "But whatever I've met a few crazier people. Not many though."


YECs?
TheComet
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 08:58
Oxford? Book is stupid.

TheComet

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Thraxas
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 11:22
Quote: "CoffeeGrunt, I can understand your frustration and the desire to put him in his place, but don't you think you're being a bit harsh? "


I don't think he was harsh enough! I don't know how the other moderators feel, but I came into this thread and read utter nonsense from Pincho. Complete arrogance, and downright stupidity. It's like dealing with a child, "I am right... because I am" that is his response.

Clearly Pincho is wrong. There is no other way to put it. I'm all for differing opinions. Let's all have a mature discussion and put forth our points of view. Let's back up our opinion with something...no you can't back up your opinion with Pincho, because you can't believe anything he hasn't approved. The dictionary... no it's wrong... Pincho says so and Science will prove him right in 10 years time. That's equivalent of a three year with his fingers in his hears going "I can't hear you... my dad's better than your dad"...

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 12:00
Quote: "I don't think he was harsh enough! "


To each his own then. I agree with your analysis of the situation, so maybe I'm too nice. Yes his, "I am right...because I am" response wound me up, because I had made the effort to engage him honestly and tried to use back up, but he did not return the same respect and in the end it came down to him making condescending remarks, taking an arrogance stance and basically suggesting he's of superior intelligence, so he's right and I'm wrong, yet he cannot prove it.

Wolf
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 13:49
You know, I've been reading this thread through now and it really ruined my mood. The sheer lack of social skills and the unfathomable amount of arrogance and ignorance certain individuals are capable of saddens me.

The civil and intellectual way most people delt with it was rather refreshing though.

"This thread has been locked for the following reason: Too much EPIC" - Thraxas
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 14:03
I've figured out a way to explain it. When you take something apart to its bare bones, you have to have enough information to rebuild it. Like a tent, you take it down to the pegs, and supports, and canvas, but the parts are still a description of the tent. You can rebuild it.

So I am thinking of a film "Man meets woman"

What film am I thinking of?

(And I have used a real film, and man meets woman is part of that film)


May as well not wait for a reply, you can't get the film back. You have lost information, and therefore it is not the barest, basic plot of the film. The most basic plot of a film is the one where you have enough information to get the film back in reverse.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 14:12
The seven stories theory I was referring to is actually more like this one:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090531090021AAAPH2f

Quote: "1. Overcoming the monster -- defeating some force which threatens. e.g. most Hollywood movies; Star Wars, James Bond.

2. The Quest -- typically a group set off in search of something and (usually) find it.e.g. Watership Down, Pilgrim's Progress.

3. Journey and Return --the hero journeys away from home to somewhere different and finally comes back having experienced something and maybe changed for the better. e.g. Wizard of Oz, Gullivers Travels.

4. Comedy - not neccesarily a funny plot. Some kind of
misunderstanding or ignorance is created that keeps parties apart which is resolved towards the end bringing them back together. e.g.
Bridget Jones Diary, War and Peace.

5. Tragedy - Someone is tempted in some way, vanity, greed etc and becomes increasingly desperate or trapped by their actions until at a climax they usually die. Unless it's a Hollywood movie, when they escape to a happy ending. e.g. Devils' Advocate, Hamlet.

6. Rebirth - hero is captured or oppressed and seems to be in a state of living death until it seems all is lost when miraculously they are freed. e.g. Snow White.

7. Rags to Riches - self explanatory really. e.g. Cinderella &
derivatives (all 27,000 of them)!!!"


These have much more detail than those posted earlier, and are the ones I was taught in media studies. You can see that stories like Star Wars are often amalgams. In the case of Star Wards, I'd say it's likely a combination of 1, 2, 3, and 6.

Many stories can be boiled down to this. Heck, even my favourite stories can be simplified as such, and I feel it carries a lot more detail than the "Man VS" list.

Sadly I cannot find an official page that lists all these, and I'm unsure where the theory stemmed from originally.

So do people feel this new list may work better?
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 14:18 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 14:18
Quote: "The seven stories theory I was referring to is actually more like this one:"


Yeah, that's the one I read years ago. I would call them templates, not stories. When you use the term stories you are again trying to add a wow factor. They are 7 basic templates, and the word templates removes the wow factor.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 14:23 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 14:25
If you want to understand the 7 Basic Plots and how they apply to literary analysis or even writing, then I suggest you read up on it. I would suggest maybe taking a course in English Literature to see how such things as 'the 7 basic plots' might be used and how literary analysis is used when applied in the study of English literature. The 7 basic plots is just one of many ways of thinking about English literature. How would one apply it? I could explain it, but I feel it is better you do your own research so that you may understand yourself, perhaps even buy the book and read it yourself. Until then, please do not profess that you are absolutely right and we are wrong, because right now, you have proven you do not understand the subject matter at all. Your question there also proves it, hence I will not answer it.

PS There is no wow factor.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 14:33 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 14:40
Quote: "If you want to understand the 7 Basic Plots and how they apply to literary analysis or even writing, then I suggest you read up on it. I would suggest maybe taking a course in English Literature to see how such things as 'the 7 basic plots' might be used and how literary analysis is used when applied in the study of English literature. The 7 basic plots is just one of many ways of thinking about English literature. How would one apply it? I could explain it, but I feel it is better you do your own research so that you may understand yourself, perhaps even buy the book and read it yourself. Until then, please do not profess that you are absolutely right and we are wrong, because right now, you have proven you do not understand the subject matter at all. Your question there also proves it, hence I will not answer it."


I have answered it, and now you have my version of the word plot. A plot can be rebuilt to the same film or book. Your version of the word plot does not mean plot. You have a second version of the word plot that is attempting to wedge its way into a false meaning.

My book plot is "Man meets woman."

It's not much of a plot. It doesn't describe Blade Runner. The basic Blade Runner Plot is

Androids have a limited life span, and to gain life longevity they must find their maker in a bloodthirsty fight for survival.

Then to say that the plot breaks down to "Man meets woman" loses so much information that it cannot be rebuilt.

The Quest -- typically a group set off in search of something and (usually) find it.e.g

Is OK as a template. But templates work forwards, and plots work backwards.

TheComet
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 16:52
Quote: "loses so much information that it cannot be rebuilt."


Nowhere was it ever mentioned that they have to be rebuilt. That's not the point, no one cares that it can't be rebuilt. A summary of a piece of literature can't be rebuilt to represent the great story it was derived from. In fact, never is there a case where you can rebuild a story from a more compressed version.

The whole point of these 7 plots is to show that any existing story can be broken down to fit into one of them. That's it.

Imagine how awesome it would be if I could compress your game into the two words "it sucks", e-mail that to someone, and then they can "rebuild" your game from it. Even you should see that that's impossible. The only thing those two words can represent is what your game is roughly about.

TheComet

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 17:32
You seem to be adding pieces to the argument that nobody even suggested Pincho. You still demonstrate you've not understood. So, I would suggest, stop. I'm not going to explain it further or try to help you understand, because I don't think it's worth my time. The Comet is welcome to try further, but he's got Ponycraft to work on and you've got Universe Generator. Seriously, I would say end it.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 17:36 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 17:38
Yes, I give up. I know from the past that I never get through until it is posted by another authority. You should see the flame threads where I was not only right, but everyone completely changed their minds, because my thoughts became reality.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 17:41
Well you can't be right about everything.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 17:42 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 17:45
Quote: "Well you can't be right about everything."


I can when my alarms go off. I know when I am right. It's part of storing up enough useful information to get the alarm bells to work properly. Like you are happy to store plot, and story, and associate them with false information, my alarm bells don't allow it.

Quik
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 17:49
Quote: "I know when I am right."


And I know when I am right.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 17:51 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 17:53
Quote: "And I know when I am right."


You didn't spend 38 years studying everything like I did. A lot of this plot thing comes down to psychology. people like a wow factor..

"Only 7 plots for any movie!"

Is something that people want to say aloud, and store as something important to remember, because it's exciting.

It's exciting because it is false. And that's an understanding of psychology.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 18:08
I thought you were giving up?

TheComet
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 18:09 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 18:09
Quote: "You should see the flame threads where I was not only right, but everyone completely changed their minds, because my thoughts became reality."


Show me. And don't give me any crappy excuses because if you do I'll label you as the ignorant jerk CoffeeGrunt so perfectly described.

Quote: "You didn't spend 38 years studying everything like I did."


One cannot study everything there is and have a perfect understanding of everything there is in 38 years.

Quote: "A lot of this plot thing comes down to psychology."


Elaborate.

Quote: "Is something that people want to say aloud, and store as something important to remember, because it's exciting.

It's exciting because it is false. And that's an understanding of psychology."


Let me convert that to code...



TheComet

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 18:15
Quote: "Show me. And don't give me any crappy excuses because if you do I'll label you as the ignorant jerk CoffeeGrunt so perfectly described."


Here we go again. You post wrong information, someone points it out, you go crazy. Same every week.

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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 18:37 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 18:39
How does that even relate to what I said?

You are nothing but a troll. I'll admit it was fun at times to see your garbage responses (I once poured compost over my keyboard and created more intelligent posts), but enough is enough. You are the reason this thread has derailed and you are the reason why so many people now feel horrible.

Perhaps you have alzheimer's? Schizophrenia?

You say you're intelligent, but not once have you ever given any of us intelligent repsonses to anything. I really wish we could talk like mature people, but instead it's like talking to a childish, immature, arogant, short-sighted simpleton. I've come to the conclusion that talking to you any further would be a waste of everyone's time, unless I feel like humoring myself. You're a tragedy, and this thread can be assigned to plot #5 of the newest list posted by Coffee.

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 18:44 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 18:48
Quote: "How does that even relate to what I said?

You are nothing but a troll. I'll admit it was fun at times to see your garbage responses (I once poured compost over my keyboard and created more intelligent posts), but enough is enough. You are the reason this thread has derailed and you are the reason why so many people now feel horrible.

Perhaps you have alzheimer's? Schizophrenia?

You say you're intelligent, but not once have you ever given any of us intelligent repsonses to anything. I really wish we could talk like mature people, but instead it's like talking to a childish, immature, arogant, short-sighted simpleton. I've come to the conclusion that talking to you any further would be a waste of everyone's time, unless I feel like humoring myself. You're a tragedy, and this thread can be assigned to plot #5 of the newest list posted by Coffee."


You mean a newer list than "There are only 7 plots." list? There are 7 plots but here is a new list of plots?

Yeah that helps. I changed it to templates, but if you want to call them plots you are welcome.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 20:11
I did try to push the thread back on topic by mentioning the alternate Seven Stories list, but a certain party appears to have derailed it with a discussion about his/her self.

Having offered a chance to prove me wrong, and instead seen myself proved right, I do not intend to redact my previous statement on this person, though Seppuku's post did make me hope that they would reconciliate.
TheComet
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 20:14
Quote: "You should see the flame threads where I was not only right, but everyone completely changed their minds, because my thoughts became reality."


Still waiting for that link.

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 20:17
Quote: "Having offered a chance to prove me wrong, and instead seen myself proved right, I do not intend to redact my previous statement on this person, though Seppuku's post did make me hope that they would reconciliate. "


By changing plot to story, and then allowing a mix of them all, you went back to my first post.

It isn't a plot, and the factors are mixed like a lottery.

So who did you prove right?

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 20:18 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 20:23
Quote: "Still waiting for that link."


I want to stay on topic. Games having a common denominator like gore. So my posts are to do with people understanding how the mix works. How to mix games up using game actions which relate to plots. Monopoly.. Throw two dice, move around board, buy property, etc. Game actions relate to plots. If you don't understand plots, you don't know how to mix game actions up. The problem is that it is taking too long to get to the point.

Quik
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 20:34
Quote: "I want to stay on topic."


Now you're doing it again....

"i'm right! here is the proof I won't show because it is for some reason not related here even though I brought it up. LETS STAY ON TOPIC GAIZ"



Whose eyes are those eyes?
TheComet
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 20:37
Quote: "I want to stay on topic."


ON TOPIC?!? YOU'RE THE REASON THIS THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC!!! YOU DIDN'T SAY ONE THING ON-TOPIC. AT. ALL.

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Aug 2012 20:38 Edited at: 24th Aug 2012 20:43
Quote: ""i'm right! here is the proof I won't show because it is for some reason not related here even though I brought it up. LETS STAY ON TOPIC GAIZ""


Yes, the topic is game elements are more important than the gore factor. I was on topic with plots, but a link to another forum about a different subject is not good.

Quote: "ON TOPIC?!? YOU'RE THE REASON THIS THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC!!! YOU DIDN'T SAY ONE THING ON-TOPIC. AT. ALL."


Nope, the replies that didn't conform to plots were off topic, yours, etc. If you target Gore as your main selling factor, you are missing the subject matter that turns the game into a fully fledged experience. The 7 plot list is saying.. why bother?

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