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Geek Culture / I need help with morrowind on windows 7 home premium!

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The Nerevar
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Posted: 13th Sep 2012 02:01 Edited at: 13th Sep 2012 03:55
I can't get it to work in full screen mode, It goes to the black screen, then it says I lost signal on my TV screen(monitor) and theres nothing I can do to get out of it.

BUT, when I run it in windowed mode, it works fine, but it gets cut off around half way up the screen, and I can't move it down!

I want it in full screen mode, can anyone help!
(I'll post any additional info if needed)

EDIT: when it goes to windowed mode, everything runs, but the screen stays black, and says "no signal", is it because of my HDMI cable?

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
RedFlames
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Posted: 13th Sep 2012 04:00 Edited at: 13th Sep 2012 04:01
Maybe the game is trying to use a resolution or refresh rate the monitor can't handle? Try changing the settings (Might even be hidden in an .ini file, been a while since I fiddled with Morrowind)

Or you could use Morrowind Graphics Extender for advanced settings and see if those help. If you aren't already using this, that is.
The Nerevar
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Posted: 14th Sep 2012 04:03
I tried the MGE, but it keeps breaking down when I try to run the GUI. I just need to find an up to date widescreen resolution mod the works, and able to run on my system.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 13:20 Edited at: 18th Sep 2012 13:49
Other than MGE, there is also a thing called morrowind FPS optimizer http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=utilities.detail&id=22 it has a bunch of tweaking options one of which should be widescreen resolution options.

Also here is something else you should know about MW FPS optimiser and MGE. You can use the MW FPS optimizer remove the max view distance so you see all the way to the edge of the loaded exterior cell which is like 10x more than the default max view distance and it looks very good running alongside MGEs terrain (i prefer to generate a lower detail MW terrain model for long view distances just adding models of large cities and landmarks and keep the rest of the MGE terrain barren since all the details in the terrain look crappy at long view distance and in my opinion take away from the beauty of MW landscape. Meanwhile running the MW FPS optimizer greatly extends the unaltered detailed landscape of the entire loaded cell which is close to a kilometer radius. At that distance all the detail looks beautiful and combined with the primary terrain model of Vvanderfell and Solthiem (or even morrowind mainland as MGE can generate terrains from mods like "Tamriel Rebuilt" project and such) made by MGE it looks beautiful

also, MGE is pretty stubborn, you have to tinker around with it to get it to work the way you want. I reccomend using default fail save settings, and dont stray too far from that, keep your own modifications to a minimum.


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 18:24
If you're still having trouble, I'd recommend Virtual PC.
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 11:07
If i were you, i wouldnt bother with virtual PC and just use a system with Win XP installed provided that its powerful enough to run MW with FPS optimiser which by modern standards should be a mediocre gaming PC with slightly older hardware (a core 2 duo CPU DDR2 memory) which is friendlier with Win XP than the new stuff on core i5/i7/DDR3, that was designed for win7 compatability, Then again, i could be mistaken, I switched to win7 a long time ago and aside from having troble running some older games, never gave me any trouble. But Win7 should be fine with morrowind. I ran morrowind on my win 7 system and other than the resolution problem you had (i was too lazy to configure MGE or FPS optimiser for it) it ran just fine.


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
The Nerevar
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 15:07
I took a look at that FPS optimizer, and it was perfect! oh how I missed this game!

Can you run the MGE when you already have 40 mods that change the game's visuals?

But, to tell you guys the truth, I think MGE is too much, it doesn't feel the same when your playing it.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 22:14
MGE shouldnt conflict with any mods, and yes i know the "not the same feeling when you run MGE on morrowind The haziness and the fog dissapear letting you see the whole island if you climb high enough. I enjoy being able to see far but i agree that even tho the view distance fog was annoying, it also served as an irreplaceble part of the mysterious morrowind atmosphere.

hmm i have wasted 5 years of my teenagehood in that game. and i still didnt beat all the quests and bloodmoon main quest, not to mention all those mods i never tried out.


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
The Nerevar
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 23:25 Edited at: 19th Sep 2012 23:25
Wow 5 years, what was your favorite race/class/birthsign/quest/etc...
(maybe I should open up a Morrowind discussion thread here! what do you think?)

Is there a way to get rid of the fog through the .ini file, if you know by chance?

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 01:19
i wouldnt reccomend getting rid of the fog unless you extended the default view distance a good distance beyond max. Because the fog actually serves a purpose of hiding the edge of your view distance limit and without the fog it looks ugly,

But there is a way in the INI to make the moon HUUUGE!, like cover the entire sky with the moon and it looks really awesome like the sky is red and evil (well its the surface of the moon thats actually red) but you get what i am saying.

As for your question, i played as high elves (even tho i dont like them that much) They have the highest magic potential, add some constan enchanted armour that can double your already large magic potential, and the sword and armor can be trained up at your own pace, but you wont be able to squeeze as much magic potential from a dunmer which btw are awesome. Oblivion butchered the awesomness of the dunmer in TES IV but Skyrim they made the dark elves very similar to morrowindian dunmer which i am very happy about.


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
The Nerevar
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 02:19
yeah, I'm not an elf fan, they're too slow in Morrowind, sometimes I'll create a combination class with a Dunmer, but I'm never a complete mage. I'm glad they made skyrim based more off Morrowind's lore, they have references for almost everything from morrowind.

one thing that will be fun is an argonian plunderer class, have unarmored, athletics, acrobatics,security, shortblade and/or hand to hand, and maybe alteration magic for levitation, feather, swiftswim, and have maybe lightarmor as well. Argonians are very fast in that game.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 03:53
I bought Morrowind only a couple years ago when it was on sale for $20. I was never too fond of it and hoped for online multiplayer. The collisions are terrible (really, ask any DarkBASIC user) and I thought it was kind of hard to be frank. The characters were hard to talk to and always wanted to start fights, and nobody would follow you without mods. I wish there were an easy way to redeem it by sexing it up, but the L&L mod, along with FPS optimizer and the other one you guys talk about are real game-changers. It would be nice if there were more of a modding infrastructure (as nice as a level editor is). For whatever reason, there are tons of characters for GMod (half of which I can't get to work) but all of the characters for Morrowind use this default humanoid system, which is great for creating in-lore characters, but you can't really import other IP (like for example Samus or Pikachu). On top of that, it's an old game so it uses an old game engine with no support for the newer file formats. It's like trying to mod Wolfenstein. As for the gameplay, it's OK. I love how there's too much lore to keep track of, but I don't like how it's restricted to just text here and there in the dialogue. It makes it feel unreal. Why couldn't they get the voice actors to speak everything they say? Also, I agree on some of the draw distance issues. It adds to the atmosphere of the game but it's also to help reduce lag. Funny, I'm on a laptop that was high-end when I bought it, and this was years after Morrowind came out, but when I go to the isle of Bloodmoon (or whatever it's called) there are a couple areas where it really lags even with a medium draw distance. Overall, it's like a PC version of Shadowgate. One of the cool things is that the Xbox version is identical, which is awesome because it's a huge game by Xbox and Playstation 2 standards (even though it was never released for Playstation 2). I have this friend who's in the navy now who played Morrowind as a ninja or something. He played it on the Xbox, and I thought the graphics looked pretty good but I couldn't understand why he played it from the first person perspective. In retrospect, it looks pretty bad from any perspective unless you're looking at the sky. By Xbox standards, however, it looked OK on a crappy TV, but it looked beter in the first person than the third person because of low res skin textures or something. Also in retrospect, it looked kind of like Sly Cooper. (Anyone else see the resemblance?) Does Oblivion exceed my expectations and more? I think Skyrim is kind of overkill, it's pretty much like Oblivion 2 so I hear. TES Online sounds like crap. Pretty much, people here raving about Oblivion but that was the last good game, and nobody ever really talked about Morrowind for whatever reason. I hear that Oblivion essentially functions as a free MMORPG (once you buy the game of course) and it has AI that actually talks to you with real voice acting all the time, but the areas are a lot smaller than Morrowind or something. I don't know, because Morrowind seems pretty small, despite what people say. I say you need at least 10x10 miles of land on one big continuous area without waiting for it to load. That would seem pretty big, because you could have different towns with realistic distances between each other. You should also be able to ride horses and dragons and design your own weapons by sketching out the shape in the game, and the shape determines aerodynamics, weight, and durability. It would also be cool to have swords with swept quadrilateral collisions so you could have sword fights where swords actually physically bounce off of other swords in midair, and you can see visual damage on each place on the sword where you hit. There should also be time travel in the game so you can go to the 20th century. Also, those dark elves are so ugly! Why did they design them that way? There should be hot petit blue elves from space (of course unlike the Avatar "elves"). Mass Effect, anyone? Or what about Star Wars? Or even Star Trek if you count various Vulcan women, although in my opinion a white vulcan is just a human. A human with pointy ears, nonetheless. Sci-fi and fantasy are so close together, whoever owns the rights to TES should merge the genres. Perhaps they could add a little science to the "magic" and make it so that you can wire things up with electricity. Why stop there? Why not space travel? I have never played a game that features both seamless planetary landing and humanoid characters. Why can't the game to do that also be a fantasy game? The only game that's worth more than $20 in my opinion is the game that has everything. Like how I expected the original Red Faction game would be like its sequels, but it wasn't.

tl;dr Morrowind was a huge letdown from start to finish and I'd hardly recommend it to anyone.
The Nerevar
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 14:09
Quote: "dr Morrowind was a huge letdown from start to finish and I'd hardly recommend it to anyone. "


Well, I believe that Morrowind is the greatest elderscrolls game out there! along with millions of others! It's the story that counts, and the gameplay was based off the D&D tabletop game.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 15:15 Edited at: 20th Sep 2012 15:16
@The Nerevar-

It's interesting that you say that. I've heard that Oblivion is really good, but I've never played it. Also, I can see the D&D resemblance in that half of Morrowind seems to be a text RPG.
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 15:49
@Fluffy Rabbit

Morrowind does have modding infrustructure, It comes with the TES construction kit, Not to mention tons of 3rd paty apps like texture and model fileformat converters to help make mods for morrowind.

the reason there is no morrowind for playstation 2 is because PS2 hardware (333mhz CPU) is weaker than XBOX (800 mhz CPU), PS2 just cant run a game like that on its hardware.

Anyway, i get that you dont like morrowind?
and why would oblivion be an MMORPG, its not multiplayer, Well there is a multiplayer mod but its 2 people only.

It also sounds like your laptop has troble running morrowind. any modern computer or even an older one with a core2duo config, should have no trouble running morrowind. those loading times during travel that you spoke of, Well i pretty much dont even notice them anymore since everything load so fast i dont really notice.

Horses and dragons... really? First of all, that would conflict with the lore, there is an explanation to why there are no horses in morrowind, but i cant remember it. Hey if you want horses, there is a mod for it.
Besides the appeal of morrowind is its cool uniqe alien culture and otherworldly atmosphere, why ride a horse when you can ride a siltstrider which are way more badass than horses.

I thought morrowind was big enough, but the beauty of morrowind lies in its amount of detail and it was all built pretty much by hand unlike oblivions randomly generated forests. Oblivion might be bigger by a bit, but the randomly generated forests were dull and annoyingly repititios. The world felt more empetey, Oblivion actually has less content than morrowind. Also, Oblivions dungeons were boaring. with a few exeptons most of oblivions caverns were copy/paste and looked damn same. Morrowinds caverns however were all different and there were a lot more uniqe and interesting dungeons in morrowind. Hey if you still want it bigger, feel free to check out the Tamriel Rebuilt Project, Adds fanmade morrowind mainland, making morrowing 5x larger., not to mention stupidly huge amount of mods plenty of new explorable lands, new cities, etc. I dont know about the current situation, but last i looked was oin 2006, morrowind was #1 in the most modded game with the biggest amount of mods avaliable.

ok, by the time i got to the part about time travel to 20th century.... this is trollbait isnt it? and i fell for it didnt I?

nevertheless, i have to finish what i started for i owe morrowind a lot as it didnt just keep me hooked for 5 years, it influenced my life. I specialize in fixing computers and laptops and it earns me decent money which i wouldnt have if it wasnt for morrowind for back in 2002 when i got the game, my old pentium 3 mashine could barley run morrowind at playable game speeds. At first i started tinkering with computer hardware dor a single purpose. I wanted to m ake my computer better so it could run morrowind on full settings!

DARK ELVES ARE UGLY you say... hmmm I agree, they are ugly in an awesome badass way and seriosly come one, why would you want to replace their badass red eyes?

Also TES does have science which revolves around magic of course, but here is why morrowind is berrer than oblivion. ROBOTS! DWEMER STEAMPUNK ROBOTS!

ok,i am not gonna even bother with the rest. Just want to ask you one thing. Who is your skooma dealer, i want the same thing you had lol

MORROWIND IS THE GREATESTGAMEEVA! (well maybe second only to skyrim) and oblivion was somewhat dissapoint after morrowind


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 20th Sep 2012 17:54
@PAGAN-

1. Yes, you pretty much restated what I said there.

2. The Xbox version is scaled back somewhat from the PC version, and there's no reason not to have a scaled back version for PS2.

3. I did not know that Oblivion is single player. Thanks for telling me.

4. Maybe my computer isn't up to par, but I tend to be more sensitive with load times. If you think Morrowind areas load fast, try Dark Survival 2!

5. I'm simply talking about technology here. Mounts are an essential part of any fantasy game.

6. I like the big open empty feel of games. It's more realistic than a giant swamp. Sorry to hear about Oblivion's caves and tombs, though. They sound even worse than Morrowind's, and that's saying something! I'll have to check out Tamriel Rebuilt. 5x the play area would be just what the doctor ordered.

7. No, I'm dead serious. Time travel to the 20th century would be cool. What's to say Morrowind isn't a part of Earth's history?

8. That's an inspiring story.

9. Red eyes are fine, but they seem so elderly, and not in a hot Pamela Anderson way, and not in an erotic fanfiction way either, nor are they elderly in a mythological way. They just look old. Keep the red eyes but get some younger voice actors and don't put so many wrinkles in their faces.

10. Steampunk is cool, but what about cyberpunk? This would go along with time travel to the 20th century. Besides, casting spells is very unscientific. I'm all about magic, but the way they do it in Morrowind just seems wrong.

11. Stay up until 4 am and it's like a full dose of skooma.

12. Does Skyrim have multiplayer, and if so, how does it work?
The Nerevar
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 23:35
none of the elderscrolls have multiplayer, not until the Elderscrolls Online comes out,

There are mods for mounts for Morrowind I heard.

I thought I read they were also working on Hammerfell on the Tamriel Rebuilt.

Now, It's time for me to become the Hortator of the Great Houses!

And I will not sleep until Dagoth Ur is at my feet and begging for mercy, then I'll use Keening and Sunder to destroy him forever!
Then it's off to Solsthiem!

Also thats why I bought some Redbull, I'll need it.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 15:07 Edited at: 21st Sep 2012 15:15
Quote: " The Xbox version is scaled back somewhat from the PC version, and there's no reason not to have a scaled back version for PS2."


Xbox processing power is more than twice as much as PS2, so good luck spending time and effort scaling it back only to get a crappy version of the game that noone would buy. Morrowind at the time pushed through new boundaries of the game development, a cut down scaled back version of morrowind would defeat its purpose. because noone would buy a scaled back PS2 version of morrowind. I ran the game on a PC thats even weaker than an Xbox was. a 600Mhz pentium 3 i hated how chuggy and slow the game was. Now Ps2 runs on a 330mhz processor,



Try scaling down the whole game yourself and get it to run on a pentium 2 pc, there are plenty of tools out there for models and textures, and then run it on your mentium 2 youself... Finally ask yourself. Was it worth it?

Btw, you inspired me to create a picture for you


youre welcome!

Quote: "I'm simply talking about technology here. Mounts are an essential part of any fantasy game."

there are mods for mounts, you can ride, guars, nix hounds, giant cliffracers or if you really want dragons, there are mods for morrowind that give you flying dragons you could ride

But i didnt find the lack of mounts making the game worse.



Quote: "I did not know that Oblivion is single player. Thanks for telling me."

i know you are being sarcastic but you refered to oblivion as a single player mmorpg. so like oblivion is a single-player massive multiplayer online roleplayeing game.

Quote: "What's to say Morrowind isn't a part of Earth's history?
"

because morrowind isnt part of earths history. The world that Elder Scrolls series takes place in is called Tamriel and as far as i am concerned isnt really a planet at all more like a flat plane.

Quote: " Red eyes are fine, but they seem so elderly, and not in a hot Pamela Anderson way, and not in an erotic fanfiction way either, nor are they elderly in a mythological way. They just look old. Keep the red eyes but get some younger voice actors and don't put so many wrinkles in their faces.
"


Yes young hot dark elf chicks are all the rage these days, The ragged worn down dark elves suit morrowind better since if you noticed, morrowind is an ash desert for the most part with constant sand storms. There is barley any fertile enough farm land capable of growing anything, infact most of it is taken up by farms already. If you noticed, the food they eat dosent look very pleasant to eat, most things that grow in the wild are poison and the majority of morrowind population is dirt poor. Conditions of living in morrowind overall is pretty stressfull and stress (combined with low nutrient diet, and eating disorders does tent to cause wrinkles and gray hair earlier than normal. The old sounding voices are likley the resuld of massive amounts of alcohol which i found to be more abundunt than food products. living in such harsh conditions does make people want to drown their sorrows in a bottle.

Quote: " Steampunk is cool, but what about cyberpunk? This would go along with time travel to the 20th century. Besides, casting spells is very unscientific. I'm all about magic, but the way they do it in Morrowind just seems wrong."


If thats the case, then traveling 2000 years forward to a point in the future of Tamriel would dissapoint you. It will proboly stay almost the same way the biggest difference would be more advanced magic. There would be no advanced technology. If monkeys had magic they would not evolve into humans. The reason we have all the technology now is because, we had to figure out how to get stuff done more efficientley since there is no magic to help us. If i could blast microwaves out of my hands, i wouldnt need an actual microwave.

On multiplayer, I dont know about skyrim but morrowind and oblivion have very crappy mods that can make a 2 player game sessions possible. via lan or internet somehow. I only tried the morrowind one with a friend and i couldnt get it to work.

Quote: "And I will not sleep until Dagoth Ur is at my feet and begging for mercy, then I'll use Keening and Sunder to destroy him forever!
Then it's off to Solsthiem!
"


I always wondered about Neravorine and Dagoth ur. So the 2 were buddies, and working for the tribunal who were pretty much manipulative backstabbing scumbags even before they asended to a god status. (and i am pretty sure they had something to do with the dwemer extinction to get their hands on heart of a dead super god) The tribunal sends the 2 to recover the heart for them which they would obviosly use to not persue more power at the expence of someone else suffering.
Dagoth, sees this and decides it would not be a very good idea to give the heart to the likes of those 3. Neravaraine is in a dillema to where his loyalties lie and he foolishly comes back to consault the tribunal leaving his friend to guard the heart. While the tribunal seeing nerevarine come back without the gods heart, decide to assasinate him. The tribunal tries to take the heart by force but get their butt kicked by daghoth. Tribunal and dagoth get angry at each other, make power plays to expand their control and influence over the region, and normal population suffers at their expense.

This was the real thing that happened that was hidden from pretty much everyone. Yet Neravarine incarnate after finding this out decides to help the tribunal anyway? The thing is, i am getting the feeling that the tribunal are evil backstabbing scumbags and dagoth ur is the good guy. Altho i realize that both sides are pretty insane, but if i had a choice, i would help dagoth.


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 18:48
@PAGAN-

I respect your opinion on Morrowind because you clearly know a lot more about it than me, but let me tell you, a PS2 version of everything is always a good thing. Looking at the crappy character models that you have before installing Better Bodies and Better Heads, it seems like at least that aspect would be an easy port. The skybox could simply be decreased in resolution. The landscape could also be decreased in resolution through a nearest neighbor algorithm applied to the height matrix and simply using lower resolution textures. The buildings could easily be simplified without anybody noticing. As for the trees and such, some of them could simply be taken out, which would cause both a speedup and a welcome decrease in the swampy aspect. The creatures are all bone-animated and would be tough to scale back, but given a few months, some low resolution versions could be made. Overall, I think Morrowind would look pretty much the same at half its graphical quality.

Nice picture BTW.

As for the mounts, I am *shocked* that you can fly dragons in Morrowind. It's not like Garry's Mod or something where making a creature is just a copy and paste. I don't know of any regular-looking dragons in Morrowind as it is, so somebody clearly had to make them fresh. Horses would be the same way. Absolutely awesome.

As for the multiplayer stuff, I was not being sarcastic. I honestly thought Oblivion was an online game. Of course, I heard about the horrible 2-player mod for Morrowind, and I don't plan on trying it out. I wonder if the Oblivion version is any better, or if there is one for Skyrim...

As for Tamriel, a continent can be a world. The Eragon "universe" is an example of this. What's to say Tamriel isn't Africa? What's to say those giant planetoids in the sky aren't illusions created by magic?

As for the hot dark elves, that is a very sad story that I didn't pick up on when reading various books in Morrowind. I thought that those nomadic tribespeople were examples of degenerates from the great dark elf society.
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 22:04
Quote: "I respect your opinion on Morrowind because you clearly know a lot more about it than me, but let me tell you, a PS2 version of everything is always a good thing. Looking at the crappy character models that you have before installing Better Bodies and Better Heads, it seems like at least that aspect would be an easy port. The skybox could simply be decreased in resolution. The landscape could also be decreased in resolution through a nearest neighbor algorithm applied to the height matrix and simply using lower resolution textures. The buildings could easily be simplified without anybody noticing. As for the trees and such, some of them could simply be taken out, which would cause both a speedup and a welcome decrease in the swampy aspect. The creatures are all bone-animated and would be tough to scale back, but given a few months, some low resolution versions could be made. Overall, I think Morrowind would look pretty much the same at half its graphical quality."


For running the game on a 330mhz processor, everything you mentioned might not be enough. You will need to have serious geometry reduction on all models (id rather keep the trees, theyre nice) Morrowind had the record amount of polygons rendered per frame at the time when it came out. Reducing geometry on every model will infact compliment the scaled down textures. so the end result should look more like a mid 90s game rather than early 2000s (nothing against the 90s games, I actually found the primitive chunky 3d graphics very charming) Another challenge is to make sure the scaled down geometry looks good. Its easy to make a beautiful 3d artwork with no polygon limit. Its much harder to make something look good with a significant polygon limit. for example:

Fluffy Rabbit!, meet Derrik, Derrik, This is Fluffy Rabbit.

I created derrik for one of my Dark Basic projects i was working on a few years ago. I had a polygon limit to keep track of seeing as DBP is has a significant limit to how many polygons per frame it could render, and at the time i was making this using a cheap lenovo netbook running on a 800mhz Intel Atom and only 1 gig of ram which is not a lot when working with 3d models.

He dosent look perfect and his geometry could be changed in some places for the better. This is my 2nd version of him btw, i dont have any pics of my first. One of the biggest challenges i had, was drawing a texture that whraps around the blocky nums on his hands so they would at least resemble something that looks like a fist (Fists instead of hands- a common technique for 90s game charecter artwork) keep in mind that the geometry will strech parts of your texture depending on the shape of the polygon and other factors. For example, i had to redraw the face texture several times before the facial features were in correct anatomical positions of the head model.

These days, in 3d max and other high end 3d model development, there are features that help you with this issue and you can even paint you own texture in real time on your 3d model

Some items, you will have to remodel from scratch because it would take you more effort to reduce geometry from really detailed models than it would take you to replicate your own low polygon model. (seriosly run morrowind, open up the console with a [~] button and type "twm" command to toggle wireframe only rendering of morrowind, and just look at some of the geometric detail)
Another thing to keep in mind is you will need to make an equal decrease in geometry everywhere, because your idea of decreasing the overall geometry of everything so you can have the processing room to load better heads and better bodies, will end up looking terrible and out of place. Try running an unmodified morrowind with original textures and download, a mod that gives you a set of armor with a really high level of geometric detail, that you feel sorry for the guy who slaved over that amount of detail and awesome super detailed and super-high-res HD textures, And if you think that looks good, i am afraid your sence of asthetics is seriosly lacking, Those mods only look good on already completley modified versions of morrowind, all models with high res textures and fine geometric detail. Besides, better bodies will not get you to running at 300 mhz and will crash in places where there are a lot of people. If you are going to reduce geometry, you will have to do it on everything as high geometry would stand out too much and ruin the scene.

Quote: " The buildings could easily be simplified without anybody noticing."
all hardcore morrowind fans would notice. The above average (for that time) amounts of geometric detail were a real treat. When i first started the game i spent several minutes checking out the door handle and some other junk that was lying around the ship, but the doorhandle was definatley a something. So, reducing some geometric detail from stuff and to have players of this game not notice it would be hard.
Quote: "As for the mounts, I am *shocked* that you can fly dragons in Morrowind. It's not like Garry's Mod or something where making a creature is just a copy and paste. I don't know of any regular-looking dragons in Morrowind as it is, so somebody clearly had to make them fresh. Horses would be the same way. Absolutely awesome."

Morrowind generated stupidly insane amounts of mods and there are a lot of original work too. Hell, i was riding a frigging porche 911 trough north ashlands. The implementation of a car was not the best because of lack of real physics, and with only the model collision to go by, the car often got stuck on a small rock somewhere, but a real porshe wouldnt be able to handle the real rugged morrowind terrain anyway, it makes sence that the car mod is a bit crappy. The horse mod was implemented pretty well. My friend loved it, and it had mounted combat too. I never bothered with the flying mounts because i created a spell with which i could jump huge distances. and land with minimal damage due to my trained up physical contition.
Quote: "As for the multiplayer stuff, I was not being sarcastic. I honestly thought Oblivion was an online game."
i am sorry to hear that because Bethesda softworks pride themselves on creating immersive single player atmosphere for elder scrolls series. infact, Bethesda refused to work on the elder scrolls mmorpg, Their parent company Zenimax is developing it. Bethesda would not dare to mutilate their creation with trendy mmorpg which is just a marketing play


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The Nerevar
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Location: Vvardenfell
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 23:24 Edited at: 21st Sep 2012 23:25
Maybe this tread should be renamed to "Official Morrowind Discussion Thread".

I mean, you guys are basically writing books for posts.

anyway, to share a little history,

After the big hit of Daggerfall, Bethesda had to nearly triple their staff make Morrowind possible. They had to come up with a way to focus on one part of Tamriel, and size it to be just the right size, (note that Daggerfall's world was the same size as Great Britain) so thats why they made Vvardenfell equivalent to 10 square miles.

The interesting thing is, They originally planned the Elderscrolls 3 to be on the Summerset Isles. I wonder why they changed their minds...

So, they had to construct a whole new engine, to support the latest technology. They had to assign teams, for design, modeling, dungeon building, characters, plot, etc. (Note the Construction Set program)

It was originally designed for the computer, and it was very successful, obviously. a few months later, they released a version for the Xbox, which had the best reviews at the time.

well, thats all I can remember, If you want to know more... Google is your friend!

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 23:40
@PAGAN-

I was not implying to have anything like the Better Bodies mod on the PS2 version. That would be insane. I know that it's hard to model good-looking low res 3D stuff, but the level of graphics would have to be brought to an all-time low.

I find it hard to notice the detail on the buildings. In my opinion, it would be better to go for a 90s look and have rectangular prisms with straw pyramids on top.

As for the horse mod, I am trying out the Wild Horses mod and having a hard time getting it to work. It can't find the horse models and textures or something.

As for Bethesda, let's just say I'm not a fan.
PAGAN_old
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Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 23:41
Quote: "As for Tamriel, a continent can be a world. The Eragon "universe" is an example of this. What's to say Tamriel isn't Africa? What's to say those giant planetoids in the sky aren't illusions created by magic?"


I can accept the night sky and the moons being illusions created by magic or gods, or space like void that makes up the infrustructure of the tamriel univerce. I am not very big on tamriel lore, (which is so deep and well thought trough, that tamrielic lore and history are like an entire subject to be studied. and just like the real history of our world much of tamrilelic history is full of controversy around certain subject, Some events are covered up, but if you really get into exploring all games of the elder scrolls series, you might be lucky enough to find some rare or banned book, or documents, letters, jornals of first hand accounts of events that will shed light on what really happened during a certain historical period rendering The official tamrielic imperial historical records as a fake to conseal some truth they dont want to get out. But since skyrim came out, they could really go crazy, with cospiracies and political manipulation. It takes place 200 years after the oblivion crisis (i wont spoil what happened during it if you wanna play oblivion, its still a very good game even tho i liked MW better, you would proboly enjoy oblivion providing you get a decent enough PC) but during the 200 years in between the games, the empre, pretty much fell apart. High elf mage factions are controlling the government trough their puppet emperor they placed in the cyrodill throne just as a show for the population who is still loyal to the old empire. The puppet emperor also keeps people from uprising agains the high elf mages . the High elf factions know that the people wont follow their opressosors, so they are trying to destroy any of the old values of the empire. They are activley repressing the imperial religion of the 9 divines which was pretty much the anchor of the empirial rule, kind like freedom and democracy are the anchor idea of the US, and communism was for USSR. So basically, Skyrim starts off around this period with the empire that exists only in de-facto status, there is a civil war breing up between ruling skyrim factions most of which are still loyal to the empire and a rebel nationalist faction that wants to drive the empire out of skyrim. But i havent even began the main quest, i spent several months just doing sidequests which are all so well written, you could take a small sidequest and make a seperate game out of it. Many fans were dissapointed with Oblivion after morrowind, but Skyrim went above and beyond the expectation of the game, I am still amazed at all the new and cool stuff i find in skyrim. Also, skyrim has horses and dragons which means there are proboly mods out there for dragon mounts as well.

As for tamriel being part of africa, i cant say i would support you on that. Tamriel unlike earth, was a paradise realm created by one of the daedric gods who lost control of the realm and elves, men took control of tamriel after figured out how to use some powerful magic to keep the others from invading their realm The Deadric god who created tamriel was killed and his heart was salvaged by Dwemer who wanted to combine its magic with their steampunk technology.

Yes the dark elves have tragic history. Even their gray skin is infact a curse by A tribunal goddess when dunmer refused to obey the new gods of morrowind instead allying themselves with dagoth ur who promised to do everything in his power to preserve the old ways and traditions the dunmer value. Some of the nomads are outcasts from the dunmer tribes and others are just bandits or bandits. There is also a percent of the dunmer population who adopted the imperial rule abandoning old traditions, they are not very liked by the traditional dunmer.


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Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 23:58
@PAGAN-

If the Empire has complete control over the media and is fueled by the religion, what's to say all of the old religious documents weren't forgeries as well? Perhaps Morrowind is Madagascar, and the Tamriel mainland is Africa, or perhaps they are all islands surrounding Australia. Maybe the Dwemer descend from the dwarf children in western Europe who were forced to work as miners.

Of course, that doesn't explain how magic can be manipulated so easily. To have so much active magic as a form of technology would violate our world's laws of physics, but perhaps a continent was made OUT OF magic, so there is a constant energy source radiating from the ground in Tamriel. That could explain all of the weird creatures and everything. Radioactivity might be higher in some regions, causing migrant species to mutate.
PAGAN_old
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Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 23:59
Quote: "I was not implying to have anything like the Better Bodies mod on the PS2 version. That would be insane. I know that it's hard to model good-looking low res 3D stuff, but the level of graphics would have to be brought to an all-time low."


Well, i appologise that i assumed you would then. I actually liked the original bodies better, yes they are ugly, but they have that unpolished rugged look which compliments the entire harsh, rugged atmosphere of morrowind.


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Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 00:01
@PAGAN-

They look great, other than robotic joints. I just can't look past that one little detail. They look like mechanical wooden dolls.
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 02:46
Quote: "I find it hard to notice the detail on the buildings. In my opinion, it would be better to go for a 90s look and have rectangular prisms with straw pyramids on top.
"


majority of games before morrowind were still very chunky and low poly and those are the kinds of games i played before, To people back then, the little details that are nothing impressive now, were extremely impressive. not that people pay a lot of attention to this detail, hardcore fans like me will notice that something is a bit off about some shapes. There is a mod actually (dont remember what it was called) which removed extra detail without trying to ruin the scenery too much and reduced the geometry and textures from some models. But that mod improoved the game speed only noticably slightly and was used mostly by those who were very desperate to play the game on higher settings. By the time this mod was out, i finally upgraded my PC to a pentium 4.

Quote: "As for the horse mod, I am trying out the Wild Horses mod and having a hard time getting it to work. It can't find the horse models and textures or something."
some of the mods, (idk if the horse mod is it) depend on MW script extender which is a fanmade script framework for morrowind to expand its modding capabilities. All mods have requirements written on them because they might use libraries from expansions and highly modified scripts that are not avaliable in the bare version of morrowind.

As for you not being a fan of bethesda, I am very sorry to hear that. Altho Beth is famous for elder scrolls games, but they made a lot of other good games. including fallout 3 and a bunch of pretty cool post apocalyptic shooters. When Beth bought fallout (btw beth was a big fan of the fallout series themselves, and the fallout 1 and 2 served as inspartion for elder scrolls games too)
I respect Beth a lot because unlike many other game developers, Beth is loyal to their fans, and its more important to them to make a good game to please the fanbase than the profit they made from it. Skyrim (and oblivion too) as well as Morrowind, always pushed boundaries in game development. For example Oblivion was the first game to coume out for when Xbox 360 first came out.


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 03:00
Quote: "They look great, other than robotic joints. I just can't look past that one little detail. They look like mechanical wooden dolls. "


You have a point there i agree their joints and movements were robotic. I am now more faliliar with frame by frame animation technology used in games back then, is very frustrating to get the movements right. I animated Derrik up there but i only made a walking animation. It was decent but his animation, may also look a bit robotic, unfourtunatley i dont have a video or anything to show you his walking animation. But if morrowind did anything like me (well i was actually trying to observe, the amimation mechanics of morrowind when i animated derrik) Morrowind, had 3 seperate objects being animated all synchronised with each others movements. Legs are a seperate animation, (before derrik was animated as a while, i had just a pair of legs walking around. The upper body is a seperate model with its own set of animation. I believe morrowind split a charecter into 3 sets, legs, body and arms, to make it possible to have him attacking with his sword while running without being concerned about making sure the attack animation might screw up the running animation and need to have it perfectley synched, Basically its much less problematic id you have your guy made of several parts independent of each other. So thats why the animations look robotic in morrowind


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PAGAN_old
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Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 04:28
Quote: "If the Empire has complete control over the media and is fueled by the religion, what's to say all of the old religious documents weren't forgeries as well? Perhaps Morrowind is Madagascar, and the Tamriel mainland is Africa, or perhaps they are all islands surrounding Australia. Maybe the Dwemer descend from the dwarf children in western Europe who were forced to work as miners."


there is no proof i can give that says nothing else was hidden from the world as for religions, its more complicated. Daedric gods, are very real, While they are all bound to their realm and cant enter tamriel unless the magic that protects is is broken, evidence of their existance does leak into tamriel. in forms of Dedra- the immortal deamons of oblivion which is one of the realms of deadra gods. (every daedric god has their own realm) while dedra gods cant be present in tamriel, they can communicate their voice and limited magic into tamriel (mostley trought statues and daedric shrines) in form of blessings, or curses, or if you do a favor for them, in tamriel, Dedra can be very generous and reward you for it. Also daedric artifacts are sometimes left by deamons in tamriel and they are rare and very expensive. There are also very uniqe daedric artifacts, (usualy rewards that dedra give as payment for delicate services in tamriel which all deadra are interested in as well as mantaining their influence, recruiting followers etc. These objects and powerful artifacts serve as obvious proof that deadra are real gods and are not afraid to show evidence that they exist. On some rare and dangerous and crazy occasions, usually some crazy mage, would open a portal into the daedric realms to hunt for artifacts, rare ingredients and rare materials that arent found in tamriel. On a rare occasion, a brave adventurer who will travel to another realm, will get the attention of the daedric god who rules that realm. After all Its not often a visitor from tamriel would come to their realm. (In oblivion expantion pack- Shivering Isles) you get to travel to the realm of one of the daedric gods (i wont give you any spoilers because Shivering Isles expantion, Was very well done and was a significant improvement on oblivion itself. Also, The sky in the daedric realm is different from the tamrielic one. So thats some grounds on speculation on how the sky is formed.

While dedra worship is popular in many parts of tamriel such as Morrowind (where if i remember correctley dedra worship was made illegal) Nevertheless, Morrowind remains one of the regions with the most active dedra worship. It is however a controvercial issue in morrowind as the thee tribunal (false) gods that rule over morrowind set up their own religion to worship themselves. They obviosly have beef with dedra worshippers while The traditional natives, hate both of the groups preferring their own worship if the spirits of their ancestors. The empire dosent like dedra as well even tho they are aware of them, But the Impirial 9 divines religion is by many (mostly dedra worshippers) is accused of being fake as the 9 divines are nothing bt myths, they never really answer any of their worshippers they never show signs that they exist and its pretty much closley resembles a polythiestic version of christianity. Meanwhile most dedra like the attention and are happy to impress their fans.

While dedra gods are feared by many and are stereotyped as evil demon gods who are obsessed with trying to conquer tamriel, While true for many dedra, onle a few of the dedra gods are actually evil and ruthless. This stereotype comes from some regions where dedra cultists are infact violent feligios fanatics. Dedra worshippers who are closer to the capital, are peaceful and mean no harm living a secluded lifestyle away from religeous persecution.
But the elder scrolls universe revoves around dedra because no matter what gods you worship, everyone knows dedra are real.

Magic in TES universe is something given. Its not explained to how magic works but noone questions its origins as every mortal in tamriel is capable of producing magic at some level, even if some choose to never learn how to use it. These people if they need magic, prefer enchanted magic items or magic scrolls for spells.

Quote: " To have so much active magic as a form of technology would violate our world's laws of physics, but perhaps a continent was made OUT OF magic, so there is a constant energy source radiating from the ground in Tamriel. That could explain all of the weird creatures and everything. Radioactivity might be higher in some regions, causing migrant species to mutate.
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"
A valid point, I never researched TES lore deep enough to explain magic, but the info is proboly out there. May actually be something like a gift given to mortals from the gods or dedra. Morrowind being the most radically alien territory in terms of creatures compared to the rest of the tamriel, is infact the deathplace of a dedra god who created tamriel. And i did notice that Morrowind (especially native dark elf population) has a very high amount of proficient magic users unlike cyrodill or skyrim where there seemes to be a lot less magic users per population. So you might not be too far off with that.

And tamriel isnt africa, The idea is so ridiculous i cant even find any way to back up the fact that tamriel isnt anywhere on earth.


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