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I am amazed at the amount of free time you guys have lying around, in order to read and dissect each other's leviathan posts, some of whom have a bit of a garbled grammatical structure...I imagine that's the school's fault too?

Can't we just leave this? No-one is going to win, and I'm surprised this isn't locked.

@ rofty:
No hard feelings. kids teenagers do like to blame their teachers, and teenagers tend do say and do things without really thinking about consequences. But they are proboly doing it to vent their frustration somewhere and on someone. basically its a stage of teenage brain development and a lot of what they say and do is driven by emotion.


I am not sure as to what is exactly going on in the education systems of US and UK other than, its falling apart for some reason. I honestley dont know why its falling apart but looking up statistics on the education system of the US, the education system started falling apart somewhere around the 80s and has been slowly sliding down ever since.

I decided to share some of the things thats happening right now in the russian education system just because its bordering on insane levels.

Since the early 90s russian education system was also slowly degrading. Before the fall of USSR, russian education system was among worlds best and very focused on creating scientists and engineers for the military industrial complex to build bigger guns to point at the US.

Untill 2006, the russian education system managed to stay in the top 20 education systems in the world even tho it was slowly sliding down several positions every year.

Since around 2006, the russian government decided to completley destroy whatever remained of a still somewhat decent education system. Well why wouldnt they want to destroy it especially when the "world bank orgonisation" gave russia several hundred billion dollars for "education reforms". Obviosly the reforms will be supervised by private company thats owned by the world bank.

The first thing they did is replace standard school graduation exams that were very in depth and required you to know the subject very well to pass it. That went out the window and was immediatley replaced by central standardized exams that consists of multiple choice questions. These standardized exams that were forced onto everyone, created massive ourcries from students and teachers. Apperentley, these tests turned out to be highly flawed in the first place and the first national exam day ended in mass faliures of epic proportions and millions of humiliated honors level students who failed the exam and now had to wait till next year to retake it as this test like the SAT test is a requirement for colledge. There seemes to be a lot of issues with these tests but the biggest one is that if before the teachers worked their students into the ground to study the subjects that they will have on the exam. after the new standardized tests, the teachers are now working their students into the ground filling their brain with useless facts and information that will be on the multiple choice test. Thus began the stupification of russias schools on a genocidal level.

But thats not all! Further reforms that involved closing down nearly all vocational tech schools, They say that vocational schools will combine with regular public schools yet that didnt happen. Russia used to have just as many vocational schools as regular public schools and was a good sourse of working class specialists technitians and such since there were so many of them.

Later the next step of the reform involved... get ready guys. Commercilising the public school system... If public school education was 100% free before, the reform, now you only have 4 periods for free totaling to about 6 hours of free periods per week. any exra classes or extra classes the kids want to take will be avaliable for a fee, the free varies according to the subject.
The free periods however are now mandatory requirements of the school cirriculum. and you cant switch them for any other subjects.
they are math , russian language, and that where the list of actual school subjects end, the new mandatory subject that is taught is called "russia in the world" which is passed off as history/politics class but what it really is, is a government propoganda and youth brainwashing class.

And finally, if the previous reformes caused an uproar, this likley made many parents want to yank their kid out of the public school and send them to commercial private schools.
the 4th free mandatory class is RELIGION! since orthodox christianity is apperentley a big and important part of russian culture and history, they decided to teach religion in schools and not optional either, its the 4th mandatory classes you have to take. the class is supposed to preach positive moral values, and tolerance toward minorities and everything will be happy rainbows and raining lollipops. also, the history of the orthodox church influences in culuture and stuff.
all the stuff i said above is already set up and working, and now they want to make the religion class twice as long for some reason.

thats a picture of a classroom with a preacher.

Now nothing against religion itself, but the fact that this is a mandatory class run by the russian orthodox church orgonisation and this orgonisation itself is far from the ideals it preaches in schools. The church is a government political tool and a money laundering engine. And the biggest example of hypocracy maybe in the world.
Even the most notoriosly unethical corporate scumbags and banking cartels are know to make charity donations and stuff even if just to support their public image or whatever their agenda might be, the russian othodox church is not involved in philanthropy of any kind dosent even run any kind of charity drive. It surprised me too.

So thats the story of how the russian public education was destroyed and commercialized.
However badly the state of the US public education system right now, its noot too bad, you guys still have a free public education system. Russia has a commercial public brainwashing indoctorination system. I seriosly feel sorry for the growing generation what will have to live trough is.

So what do you guys think? is this borderline insane or what?
With stuff like this, i am actually looking forward to living in a global society ruled by evil corporations and microchips implanted in out sculls.



oh we were fighting?... im sorry...
but seriosly i had no idea this was a debate, i just thought we were sharing out opinions on the education system and talking about how everything is terrible.

And yet again you manage to jump into a thread that really doesn't concern you and lay down the law as you see it, you even find the time to read all this and point out others grammar where your own is far from perfect.
If it bothers you just don't click on it.

If any thread is to be locked a mod will do it and its not likely to be at your behest either. As I have said before I have no interest whatever in certain threads you have posted but I don't have the urge to jump in and say I think it should be locked because it annoys me, learn to live and let live dude.
You strike me as the sort who believe in freedom of speech and liberty so long as it suits you and there seem to be quite a few of those around here.


Actually it was a debate and a heated one at that, nothing wrong with this as long as it doesn't degenerate into playground name calling and everyone stays friendly by the end, its actually a very healthy thing when it goes this way.
From what your saying about Russian education now being funded through Business and Religious orders I can only say welcome to Western capitalistic ideals, although its a mixed bag these kind of funding models have always existed in education here (probably in Russia too had it not been for the persecution of religious beliefs). I believe at first it was a very philanthropic ideal but somewhere down the line it gets blurry and money/power/personal belief rules.

Its all ok when its privately run schools but when it becomes State you know its going to be a select few who decide what your taught. Believe it or not the West is now very interested in how Russia has been handling things now that its not just Cold War propaganda were fed.

I like how you do the internet equivalent of a, "come on lads, let's just settle down," and everyone starts with, "OMFG since when were you the police?"

You don't have to be a figure of authority to ask someone to calm down, or do you not see me as an equal?

Coffeegrunt if you think your statement above was a request for people to calm down I suggest you find a better way of wording it. Dont back pedal on it and try to say you meant something else it doesn't wash and this is not the first time.
Your sarcasm and contempt is obvious so really I would request that you calm down and think before you hit the post button.

Yes I do see you as an equal, I do not see you as representive of authority round here though and thats the nub of my problem.

I still don't understand how a post made to discuss a copyright law turned into a bashing session on education.

Education is what you make it. I could blame my current issues on the fact that school didn't prepare me for life, but it simply isn't possible.

I mean, how can you be prepared for something your teachers don't know about? Often, many of my teachers were middle-aged, and like my similarly-aged parents, were too long in the same career that they'd never had to have gone searching for work in the current climate.

Yeah, school did not prepare me in the slightest for work...but I'm glad of that. I made mistakes early on, if I hadn't made one of them, I would be working in the NHS right now, on a very comfortable salary. However, I was cocky in my interview, and learned that lesson hard.

Still, I'm glad schools didn't prepare us. It meant that those of us who left with the basic ability to learn and adapt to new problems could survive better than those who give up.

I can tell you as someone currently watching their friends struggle to use A levels for anything other than toilet paper, while the others are falling down various drug-induced black holes, that it isn't the school's fault.

Never in nature was it intended for everyone to be successful. The fact they even survive counters it. Call me a Darwinist, but I think the fact that we're struggling to feed everyone in the world proves my point.

That was my fault for picking up on the statement blaming teachers, well partly my fault, but when discussing removal of freedoms then its inevitable that the subject broadens.

You will have friends with Degree levels struggling and this is nothing new its been that way since the 80's whilst before that you could walk out of one job and straight into another. You might not realise it but school did prepare you for work in a basic sense, imagine how hard it would be with no schooling at all.

Anyhow its very difficult to predict how things like copyright laws will affect us I think most peoples fears are that once certain laws are passed they pave the way for others slowly whittling away all liberty, I can see the point in being concerned about that.

I apologise if I come across as abrasive but its just my nature (now, wasn't always like this) but believe me seen this going on for a long time now, its nothing new and does get to you sometimes, instead of blaming education we should really blame ourselves for being such sheeple.

Your Darwinistic comparison is interesting but in fact public sector industry was destroyed by Thatcher and Reagan in the 80's and was nothing to do with selection of the fittest, it was to get rid of bolshie trade unions who got in the way of business exploiting the workforce.

Its funny that you refer to your parents and teachers being middle aged and out of touch, I have no idea what age you are but in the 60's there was a buzz around that said "we can change things for the better" at its center was Kennedy, whatever happened to all those idealists? They became suits working for the man is what happened.

Another thing. Every job expects top-tier work for minimum wage. It's crazy...

I mean that now, it seems to be natural selection of a sort. It isn't fully, and the rules of selection are arbitrary at best, but the welfare state we once had here seems to be dying.

Eck, I just wanna work, pay taxes, live, love and die. Plus a hol' to Mallorca every year or two. xD

Hurts your head....doesn't it?

Of course its a lot more complicated now but the system of dismantle and restructure to control still applies.

In my life experience I have learned you are only as free as your mind perceives you to be, even a real time slave is as free as his mind sees him to be free.

In a world full of hate and threats, we can only be as free as the threats let us to be also.

I don't get it, Daniel.

The freedom thing is funny, being an outsider to America. It's the one feature you wear so proudly in the media and movies as a nation, the thing you beam out to the world.

Yet, alongside guns and healthcare, it's the one thing pretty much every American I talk to hates...because it is largely a lie for some groups.

And there's the problem as I see it Daniel, people are so concerned with the crap things going on around them, they turn a blind eye and shut themselves off from the reality sinking themselves into whatever makes them feel better, be it television, hobbies and for some whatever culture helps them along.

An apathetic voting population is far better than one that actually believes they can change things.

Depressing that you wrote it in that order.

I just link to george carlin about the education thing.

Personally, I believe that aliens from another dimension try to keep us down as a species... no really! I do believe that.

Besides: isn't this discussion very political and nonsensical in this forum? It will all end up in giant posts, people who will agree to disagree and a lock

So lets bring in the locksmith.



There is only as much hate and threats as you perceive there to be...of course...you'll perceive more if you own a television.

Eh, I just threw the words together in whatever order. Mainly for alliteration for live and love, and work/pay taxes go hand in bloody hand, don't they? xD

Thing I still find so funny is the homophobia some other nations harbour. I've heard from some that it gets pretty bad in America, is this true?

Not another one for locking...give us a break....probably will be locked but its up to the mods.


Depends on what you watch....

This is not exclusive to America.



Very David Icke.


Maybe on the forum but in this board? What topic would be regarded as nonsensical in Geek Chat?

Didn't say it was, but I don't have online friends in Afghanistan, or other such places that are known to be homophobic.

Ummm... looks like an attempt at setting this thread on fire to get your way....how clever...well not really (you know who to blame)...or is it worse than that and your actually serious bringing this into the discussion, thats ok as I am done here anyhow

Sorry, I talk to people with a vested interest in such things a lot. Surprised that you're willing to write essays for education, yet think that the issue of homophobia isn't worth discussing. Very interesting...

My essays on education as you put it are based around two things, I have a slight idea of what I am talking about based on my own experience and it wasn't pushing the AUP too hard. If you want my thoughts on it I would be happy to discuss it with you out of these forums, but then you probably know that. If anyone wanted to inform me on such matters I am open to listening just as I would any subject I know little about, but if you cant see the difference in discussing education and a subject such as you want to raise in here (whatever your motives) then I dont have an informed opinion...not knowledgeable enough about it really, so sorry to disappoint you

Also since you ask about this in America, not being American has its drawbacks when asked what my opinion is.

Hope this explains away your doubts as to my integrity when I avoid answering.

My only thought is to again say 'live and let live' obviously its insecurity with those who don't and that also goes for those who think its their role to point out or derail threads that they think should be locked because they don't fit in with their idea of how this forum should be.

The reason my posts are longer than a sentence is because I believe in backing up statement with example (at least thats how I was taught to argue/debate/discuss, blame the teachers) its not a good idea to insinuate something in a single hanging sentence as you did above, it just makes you look arrogant and demands response, so I believe you are simply thinking your being clever again particularly as you dont offer any opinion or start discussion of your own (simply made statement out of the blue without example followed by a question and it had no relevance whatever to anything previously discussed, unless you think its political but its actually religious intolerance first and foremost which bleeds into everything at the root of any national homophobia, how come you don't mention this if you discuss it often with people who have 'vested interests'? this is why I am suspicious of your motive in throwing it out there), I am not stupid whatever you may think. Don't try to say you don't know that getting into this would definitely break the AUP or at very least invite a flame war, yes I know I said I wasn't getting into it and just did above but any idiot could have told you what I just said.
You seem fine with long posts and grammatical errors when they concern ponies so whats your problem in here?

Just for your information I didn't spark any of the debate going on in here though I did respond to it, if I choose not to get into discussion with someone that's also my choice and I don't see where you get the idea it means anything more than that.

I have seen the mods being very tolerant around here this thread being a good example of that (despite what you think), I am surprised Thraxas didn't lock it and credit to him for leaving it open after what was said.

People here in America are blinded right now with the new presidency.

As me, I know we are not really free, if you have to pay taxes, you are not free, but, my only point was, you are only as free as you think you are.

We do not have the freedom of speech and you have to show id for almost anything today. Its like, your papers please.

It's all due to fake security, To fill secure we need to check all people all of the time, badges, drivers license ,national id, when in truth, there are no real terror here.

If I am in a cell, I am still free.

@DeadTomGC
I don't think murder is the act of someone who would create a better society. Far better to inform the people, unite them and use the power of democracy to bring change. This is already happening (for example: Wolf Pac and lots of youtubers are raising important issues), it's a slow process but with enough support we can achieve anything.

There is no regime or illuminati, not a conscious one anyway. There are people with immense wealth and political influence, granted, but they're just playing the system for what it is; they're not some evil league of super-villains (not suggesting you think that but some do). I believe that if we actually posed a threat to them they would gladly negotiate, and probably throw each other to the lions in the process in an effort to keep ahead.

I second that, I always use the old

Forgive and you will be forgiven

Nothing can be done with hate or killing each other, if every one is dead, there is nothing done.

But, if we forgive, we bond together as one people who accept each other as who we are with love. Teaching love and respect with forgiveness.

he he he, I have similar thoughts. which is precisely why I generally refrain from entering debates like these.

but I can't resist at least saying something.

so far as life goes, I like the tai chi principal. if they push you pull, if they pull you push, if they strike help them project their force, offer a loophole, it can be a foothold or a noose.

meet yin with yang and yang with yin and there is no outcome. let them realize it is pointless or run out of energy trying.

liberty is an interesting concept.

At one point I was greatly agitated by the apparent closing noose government and society were placing around me.

Now I don't mind so much.
I just thought about the pros and cons of control.

take an example of no control, Africa. Go out in the wilds of africa and see how values change. there are no rights, there is no fair, there is just powerplay, the cunning and powerful dominate without mercy or regret. preditors eat, prey try to stay alive long enough to breed.
Life is not cruel it is just what it is.

compare that to the current australian society, where such a level of control is in place that a human dying is newsworthy, human starvation is basically extinct, the risk to life is relatively low, education is widespread and of good quality(despite our complaining).

The only reason we have the time to think about such things is due to the freedom placed upon us through living in a controlled society. with a lack of danger and desperation to survive we have free time to learn and think. just look at the explosion of thought and invention that came with the introduction of agriculture.

It comes back to seeing the loophole as a foothold rather than a noose.

anyone living anywhere wild is preoccupied with surviving(so far as I can imagine).
take the eye off the ball and it is game over.


Despite all this, I still feel that control can go too far, however I feel it is not beneficial or profitable to strangle the population to the degree people tend to forecast.
Therefore it is unlikely to reach that point.

With "big business" monitoring profit and growth as tightly as they do, they will notice when their grip is beginning to stifle movement, it will effect their business.
It will begin to implode.

I feel the bigger concern regarding business' hold on society is the trend for exponential growth within a finite environment.

I can see that being the downfall of modern society far sooner than any other cause.

anyway, that's my two cents.

The west was always interested in russia even before 1917. A fun fact, thats not taught in school history classes (at least none that i went to)
American industrialist and bankers (Rockfeller and JP Morgan in particular) actually played a role in creating USSR and for a while the capitalists and communists were buddies before they realized they hate each other.
Same families who helped create USSR in 1917, played a part in destroying it from the inside. Thats why David Rockfeller was at one point a financial advisor to M Gorbachev.



i thought the bashing session ended, and the copyright law that this thead was about is a part of "Corporations are trying to take over the world, everyone put on your tin foil hats!" subject. But really this topic, is interesting to discuss.



You are not the only one. Many people belive that, While it sounds silly, there is no good reason to dismiss that idea.

Same here



burned


There is no single place in our world where you can avoid taxes, and you never will be able to. Your grandchilderen who will live on mars, wont be able to avoid paying taxes.

If freedom is outlawed, Only outlaws will have freedom.

It's probably worth pointing out that the pony thread is now dead, to be fair. Plus, I get the impression that you plain and simply do not like me, Rolfy, given how every time I express an opinion in a thread, you appear with a wall of text in an attempt to ridicule me.

The homophobia thing was linked to the freedom argument Daniel brought up, and was a throwaway comment. I don't write essays because I don't have the free time, to be honest. I only ever wrote anything of that length for DeviantArt or school.

If you need twenty paragraphs to get a point across that could be done in one, it's not an example of good writing, to be fair. I say what I need to, and end it there. I could waffle on like you do, post various links to political foundations for that opinion I posted, but really, I simply don't have the free time to express said opinion on a game creation forum. I mean really...

Plus, you complain at me for not taking time to expand my posts, yet say I'm immature when I ask you to take the time to exercise some better grammar and punctuation. I think there's been a bit of an apostrophepocalypse in your posts, lately.

But yeah, bash me because I used to be a brony...an informed and intelligent comeback, of course.

Probably because you never expressed an opinion in the first place at least not one you could actually back up.
One minute your trying to make me look bad when I don't get into your question and the next your saying its a throwaway comment....you are bonkers if you think I am going to accept even more back pedaling from you.
If you really want to compare what I write around here as essay's or even that my grammar is so bad your exaggerating beyond any rational belief, kindly point me to this epic twenty paragraphs you speak of, really grow up and grow a brain....your simply whining because you got called out for being an ass and no one bashed you for anything I simply meant it didn't seem to bother you when the very things you whine about are posted in your own threads without comment from you...yes I do find you immature and a hypocrite, and you certainly don't need any help from me to get that across.
Maybe you are so smart you can keep it short as every word carries such deep meaning no explanation is necessary but I struggle with that besides if I want to write essay's I will and not much your going to do about it. You actually come across as the worst kind of despot with your attitude to this and ironically are managing to stay on topic.
I suggest you read all your own posts again before you try changing the story to suit your fantasy anymore.

Was this post short enough for you to understand?


Are you talking to me or yourself? You posted in said thread only yesterday not exactly dead then huh?

Nice Thread!

I love George Carlin, he never pulled any punches!


Every nation, every group, every circle has another group that hey hate or are opposed to (where "group" is defined as a search-criteria to catagorize people - which is ironic considering that people who are against the categorizing/grouping of others also fall into a group/category :s ). Look, there will always be people opposed to those of a different sexual orientation to themselves. Best recourse is to flaunt one's own sexual orientation in front of intolerant folk and make them as uncomfortable as possible

Actually here's an interesting point regarding freedom: Not everyone can ever have at the same time. There are winners, losers and those in the middle. There can only exist compromise.
You see we all have the right to freedom of speech and belief, right?
Hypothetical: Let's just say aliens landed and begun living side-by-side with humans (using "aliens" to avoid upsetting anybody).
So PersonA is anti-aliens and PersonB is pro-aliens. Obviously, we decide to give aliens equality, blah-blah, and make it illegal to say nasty things about them. Now we just infringed on PersonA's right to freedom of speech and freedom of belief...
See this is why I just love these talks. It's so fun playing logic and philosophy
Btw, this thread's fun. Please nobody get it locked!

[SIDENOTE]

Put in a request to allow pony-culture in the posting comp since it's basically a random/spam thread anyway.
[/SIDENOTE]

I think we've reached the zenith of this thread now....and pretty well beyond, into the flames. I, of course, have my own assertions and judgments on things discussed here. However (to spare some people's delicate sensitivities about doing so), I will not post after locking this.

I do find it interesting that the Forum-Name of the person who started this topic, is equated to the name of said book: Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny

Flame

This thread has been locked due to the unmanageable number of flame responses. Please refer to section 3.11 - 3.12 of the Acceptable Usage Policy for full details:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?gf=aup#forum

AUP Section 3.17 ...Moderators shall, at their discretion, determine what constitutes a violation of these terms, along with generally accepted netiquette standards, and can take action against those who violate these rules.

If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases a ban.