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Geek Culture / NASA wants to "make it so" with warp drive in our lifetime!

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 02:47
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http://dvice.com/archives/2012/09/nasa-warp-drive.php

Yes, there are some obvious hurdles to overcome, but they are seriously suggesting they're going to do a lot more research into the field! Apparently, the process won't take nearly the amount of fuel previously thought, so they're pretty sure they can make it achievable as long as they find the fuel source - and for all we know, that could be just around the corner!

Even if they don't build the engine by 2063, it'll still be an interesting thing to keep tabs on. And maybe, just maybe, it will be the greatest achievement of this century, and it's only hardly begun!

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 04:08
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THAT WOULD BE KICKASS! seriosly, who else thinks the adventerous part of our generation was born into the wrong time period? Too late for discovery of new lands on our own planet, and too early for any real space exploration to happen. because, seriosly sometimes i feel like:



another challenge that needs to be overcome after (and if) they manage to build warp drives is terraforming a planet into a habitable condition, But with warp drives, it will make it somewhat easier, as now, it will be possible to harvest elements necesearly for life from other planets/moons/gas giants that are not in a habitable zone of their star like earth or mars.

a fleet of unmanned automated resourse mining ships on warp drives could easily make several trips to planets, harvest some hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen (i think those are pretty abundant in the universe) bring them back to some dead planet synthesizing water on the trip there, and providing the planets mass is large enough to support an breatheble atmosphere (its a common theory that mars at one point had a good atmosphere capable of supporting some kind of life but the planets mass was not enough to keep its atmosphere and it eveporated over the course of a few hindred million years) Hell, we might be able to build artaficial planets even.


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Kezzla
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 05:32
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That's really exciting! I have always wanted to explore space. and with the freedom to be able to do it on the fly. non of this fire in the right direction then don't touch anything.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 05:52
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Quote: "The principle of warm drive is really fairly simple."

Yes, it's just a matter of getting the air-con to work!

Shh... you're pretty.
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greenlig
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 06:07
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Really cool find, Yodaman.

@Pagan: There's still 95% of the ocean left unexplored! I find it fascinating that we don't really do much below the surface of the ocean. It's a wild and alien landscape, filled with creatures we can only dream up. I'd give my left leg to be part of that exploration.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 10:23
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greenlig - totally... erm aside from the leg bit >.<

Nice find indeed Yodaman!

This has me thinking now...

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 11:56
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Yes, I would love to see more of the ocean and see what discoveries could be made. There's so much more to explore.

However, this is a cool find, I hope the theory behind this is sound and that it is possible. It'd certain add something to space travel. Shame the cast of Star Trek will most likely be dead by then, because I would totally send them on the first mission.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 11:56
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Quote: "@Pagan: There's still 95% of the ocean left unexplored! I find it fascinating that we don't really do much below the surface of the ocean. It's a wild and alien landscape, filled with creatures we can only dream up. I'd give my left leg to be part of that exploration.
"
ocean would be less interesting because humans cant survive without breatheble air, not to mention the enourmous atmospheric pressure without special equipment like an exoskeleton otherwise even if we could develop fish like gils via genetic engineering allowing us to breathe under water indefinatley, we would be crushed by miles of water which is a lot more dence than our gaseous atmosphere.

Maybe this is just my dislike for aquatic stuff talking (idk why, i dont like oceans or boats or many things water related, hell i dont even like drinking water if there is something more interesting to drink around.

but anyway, i am more exited at the prospect of being able to live on another planet with breatheble atmosphere and surviavable climate.

or maybe i just played too much red faction.


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nonZero
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 12:21
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Nice find Yodaman! This looks hopeful - albeit it much less so pragmatically than theoretically. Still, if I could visit another world in my lifetime, I think I would die a happy man

I know this is a little off-topic, but I must just point something out here - purely for fun. I'm no expert on this so I don proclaim to have my facts 100%, but radio waves move at the speed of light in a vacuum, afaik. So then how would the ship communicate with Houston from Alpha Centauri? Just food for thought since I've seen radio-wave communication used over long distance in a number of sci-fi shows and always thought "how?". Somewhat of a fun afterthought for all this. I'd be curious to hear some theories on that.

@greenlig: You have an extremely valid point. To answer your question regarding the ocean as best I can, the reason humans want to go up and not down is basic human psychology. Human beings created most of their culture and religion based on "up". We placed Gods on top of high mountains, in the sky and, more recently, on other planets in space. I hypothesize that the reasons for this are likely:
Our association of flight with freedom (lots of obsession with flying in older mythology)
Our association of higher places with safety (ie safety from most predators could be found in trees - to go really far back)
Our association of the sky with life (The rain brought precious water to us, the sun brought safety from the dark and symbolised life).
From there, I believe it simply grew stronger as our ability to POKE the heavens evolved technologically. Eventually, "up" gained practical application in day-to-day life with air-travel, satellites, radio towers and possibly one day advertising on the moon (Coka-Cola logo fits *shudder*).
I think what happened from an imaginative standpoint is we discovered that the ocean had a limit - its bed - and we've more or less mapped it using sound waves (I think it was sound waves?) so although we can't see anything other than the general shape of the bottom of the ocean, it's been "demystified" in a sense. Space, on the other hand, seems bigger and that vastness appeals to us, especially our imaginations.
This may all seem very silly but we are a silly species and I will freely admit that I'm as big a sucker for space as the next guy

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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 13:01
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nonZero just got added to my Very Down to Earth People [VDEP] list

Have a or on me buddy!

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nonZero
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 13:06
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The sun's not set in RSA yet (GMT + 2)

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 13:42
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Nice find. I would love to travel to another planet some day. I think I would be too old by the time warp drives are around. Perhaps sea exploration will be a nice way to try to discover and adventure. (Meanwhile programming is a great way to do research!)

Quote: "I'd be curious to hear some theories on that."

It is my understanding that it is possible to propagate information to a location faster than the speed of light. I'm no expert on this by any stretch of the imagination; it's just something I've heard. So, if they can manage to do that for communication, that'd be great. I think Wikipedia has an article on this somewhere.

Off topic: Is "" a coffee or a tea in your case? For me it's caffeine-free tea.

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nonZero
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 13:59
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Quote: "Off topic: Is a coffee or a tea in your case? For me it's caffeine-free tea."

Tea first thing in the morning, coffee until 15h00 (caffeine cut-off time) and then Milo, Hot Chocolate or Rooibos (A South African herbal tea, naturally caffeine-free) for the rest of the day.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 14:37
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This gave me a weird idea for a game .

Warp technology relies on messing with the "fabric" of space. But what if the tehcnology rips it apart, instead of bending it. Then perhaps those "rips" could create weird anomalies that spawn weird alien monsters or something(im not sure what yet)
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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 14:49
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Zoq2.. I think you might have started the Big Bang theory up there lol...

I say that because... Would a living organism simply spawn out of nothing? Would it not take millennia for it to evolve? Or would the tear cause it to jump a few millennia into existence?

Food for thought...

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 15:01
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In regard to Zoq2's game idea, I would consider the rip to form a connection to another universe where aliens who just happened to be travelling through a worm hole for battle with a strange other race managed to find their way to our universe due to the rip. There may be further anomalies which also cause destruction of various worlds in our universe and broken connections leading from our universe to theirs. The confusion of the aliens early in the game leads to a mini-war with them. Later on, all is rectified and we eventually help them fend off their invaders when a wave of them comes in to our universe. After that, we join them to rid both universes of said evil race hellbent on destroying both. Yeah, it's not the best story, but I'm just trying to think of what might be passable.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 15:03
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Me thinks someone has been playing Mass Effect

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 16:34
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That had nothing to do with Mass Effect's storyline...

Zoq's idea sounds very much like Half Life. Pioneering experiment results in catastrophic fractures in space-time, linking Earth to a nether-realm between dimensions as inhabitants of that realm begin randomly spawning around the facility.

Said races begin by randomly attacking whatever they see through pure instinct, before smarter races alongside them start to teleport through in an organised manner in order to invade Earth.

Military come in to stop it, gradually lose ground as they simply bomb everything while aliens simply spawn on top of the rubble. Pull out, prepare to nuke the place while Freeman kills the big boss orchestrating it all.

Except in HL that ending results in horribly unstable randomised creature spawning across the globe, then the Combine take notice, and I'll leave it there...
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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 18:27
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So, a flying saucer decorated with antimatter trim could instantly travel at any speed and go anywhere?
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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 19:15
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Me thinks someone has been playing Half Life

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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 21:48
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@MrValentine-

I think the release of Black Mesa rekindled some interest in the series.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 22:11
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Oh, I knew the story off by-heart anyway...
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nonZero
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 22:26
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@Aaron:
Quote: "It is my understanding that it is possible to propagate information to a location faster than the speed of light."


Awesome! I found an article about it HERE and you're right! What's more awesome still was this part:

Quote: "Being applied to semiconductors, the idea of transmitting data across the entire width of a CPU in a single clock, or even less than that, would mean faster caches, the ability to communicate across separate pieces of silicon nearly instantly (1 clock cycle), which means semiconductors could be made piece meal, being assembled wirelessly in the final package through EM frequencies which operate only over a few centimeters"


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The Zoq2
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:05
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I have neighter played mass effect, nor half life... It was just a weird idea that popped up when I saw that graph
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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:24
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Quote: "I have neighter played mass effect, nor half life... It was just a weird idea that popped up when I saw that graph "


Blesphamy lol

You kidding right? its almost exactly what I remember of Mass Effect... I still got ME 1 lying around... the weird thing... I managed to sell off ME2 but they would not allow me to sell ME1 lol

nonZero, arent they looking into overturning Silicon chips for infrared / lasers or something?

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Matty H
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:28
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I'm not too sure about that article, surly if somebody had broken the light barrier it would be all over the news?

This is interesting but I'm sure it's completely wrong

Quote: "If you take a laser and shine it on the moon and swing it rather gently, for example, the spot on the moon travels faster than the speed of light. If an effect can do that, it makes you wonder if you can do things with light to get the equivalent of a sonic boom."


Can anyone confirm this is true, or join me in thinking it's silly

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:49
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Quote: "I'm not too sure about that article, surly if somebody had broken the light barrier it would be all over the news?"


It hasn't happened yet; the article is just saying that NASA is seriously starting to research it, not that they've actually gone and built the thing, although it sounds like they may make test builds once they verify their theories.

And the interesting part is that they're NOT breaking the speed of light, they're just using space itself to move the ship. Technically, the ship doesn't move itself, it just transforms space around itself to propel the ship forward thanks to a few loopholes in many equations.

Quote: ""It is my understanding that it is possible to propagate information to a location faster than the speed of light."

Awesome! I found an article about it HERE and you're right!"


I read about that too, and instantly thought "Beam me up, Scotty!"

I really hope this all comes to fruition within my lifetime!

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Matty H
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 00:17
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Sorry Yodaman, I was talking about nonZero's link, I should have made that clear

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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 04:04
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Quote: "nonZero, arent they looking into overturning Silicon chips for infrared / lasers or something?"


Wouldn't that require both generation and detection of light signals, which would probably be slower for such short distances?
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 08:21
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Quote: "Can anyone confirm this is true, or join me in thinking it's silly"

It's true. I made a demo to explain it a while ago: http://mathandcode.com/rotapplet.php

(green = observed point light)

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Matty H
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 18:02 Edited at: 19th Sep 2012 18:05
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Cool applet.

I'm not convinced though

As you spin faster, the green arc section gets larger and larger, so you get the effect of the arc travelling faster but the particles are just more spread out, no particle actually travels faster.

I still think that the logic in the quote is incorrect.

Quote: "If you take a laser and shine it on the moon and swing it rather gently, for example, the spot on the moon travels faster than the speed of light. If an effect can do that, it makes you wonder if you can do things with light to get the equivalent of a sonic boom."


EDIT:
You could say that if you look at the night sky and shake your head side to side, the stars look as if they are shooting across the sky faster than light

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 18:28
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As a propulsion system, I don't think we can tie a ship to the end of a beam of light, and just "swing" it across the cosmos.

Although, if you buy a faulty fibre optic cable, you can make neutrinos go FTL.
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 20:18
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Quote: "no particle actually travels faster."

Yes, but the observed spot on the moon travels faster, even though it's not an actual particle.

Quote: " but the particles are just more spread out"

Eh. If you imagine it like a phosphorescent screen that stays lit for a while (like is pictured), then yeah, but if the particles immediately reflect then there isn't this delay, and it will still appear as a point particle.

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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 21:20
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Here's my FTL idea: The space anchor. Basically, you push a magic button that roots you to your absolute position vector, negating your momentum. The universe flies by you at insane speeds, and there is no need to expend fuel.
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 15:43 Edited at: 21st Sep 2012 15:59
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Quote: "Said races begin by randomly attacking whatever they see through pure instinct, before smarter races alongside them start to teleport through in an organised manner in order to invade Earth."


I thought the vortagons didnt exactly want to invade earth, Well they were refugees trying to get away from the combine regime, obviosly during first contact humans freaked out and attacked the vorts, they attacked back, but vortagons, having lived under combine regime were aware of other aliens unlike us humans. the Combine proboly had a whole bunch of worlds under their control considering they took the earth in 7 hours (and they didnt even have to do it themselves, they sent some other aliens they conquered before, to conquer us, while the combine kicked back at their homeworld drinking space martinis!, now thats smooth)
I wonder what the combine look like anyway? Advisors are definatley not them. I thinki it would be accurate to guess that advisors are some of the aliens that are pretty high up in the combine power structure, but i dont think the real combine would lower themselves to actually coming to a planet they conquered as advisors. Advisors just dont seem cool enough to be the real combine.
Why are they called combine anyway, did humans made that name up? Idk about its meaning in english, but in Russian Combine means Harvester like farm equipment. i think it means the same in english, but i honestley have never heard the english word "combine" used anywhere outside the context of HL2 games.

By the time combine came to earth, the vortagons were proboly pissed that combine found them on earth too and is opressing them again.


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 16:14
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Quote: "Why are they called combine anyway, did humans made that name up?"


They "combine" species to make an overall empire. It's worth noting that Hunters, Striders and Gunships are actually conquered species. The Combine warp and augmented them with technology so much, that they are barely even alive anymore. They plan to do the same with humanity.

The Vortigaunts were being controlled by the Nihilanth, that giant baby thing you fight at the end? It tries to take over Earth, as Xen is essentially a hellhole. So Vorts accidentally teleported through, then the Nihilanth found out, and started sending Alien Grunts alongside Vorts to take over the Earth. Machines came through next, (not in Black Mesa, but in the original there's a random alien turret thing they have, plus those weird, V-shaped flying machines.)

But yeah, I wonder if we'll ever get to see the Combine. Maybe they're somehow connected to the G-Man, his employers could be the Combine. So powerful they exist outside time and space, manipulating species so that they can conquer them.

Then again, the G-Man seems to be working against the Combine as much as he is with them. So they're probably separate entities.
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 16:28 Edited at: 21st Sep 2012 16:33
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Quote: "They plan to do the same with humanity."

like civil protection? they look pretty augmented

Also i read that after the black mesa incident and before combine arrived. there was a period of portal storms all over the world created by the black mesa incident that flooded the earth with alien refugees and other lifeforms.

Also the humans did name the ailen conquerors after farm eqipment didnt they?


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 16:31
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More like the Stalkers, only weaponised.
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