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3 Dimensional Chat / What sculpting program should I get?

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The Nerevar
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:10
I've been looking for one on the internet,and I can't find one that suits my needs.

I need one that is easy to use, mid-poly(I don't want to use millions of polys per brush stroke), easy texturing, and free.

I want to start sculpting characters and such for FPS creator.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
rolfy
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:25 Edited at: 18th Sep 2012 23:29
You wont be doing much sculpting with mid poly models, the whole point is to use very high poly to sculpt the details then bake these down to textures and occlusion/specular/normal maps for use on low poly game models. Sculptris, Zbrush, Mudbox etc can handle very high detail efficiently so why wouldn't you use them?

I believe Sculptris is free.

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The Nerevar
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:29
I want to be able to use the models for FPSC, with detail like what Bond1.

What program do you use?

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rolfy
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:30 Edited at: 18th Sep 2012 23:35
Max for base mesh and Zbrush for sculpting. You will often find someone thinking they can create high poly then reduce but that is totally the wrong way to do it. Create a clean base mesh with nice edge flow (particularly for animated characters) then divide it in sculpt program, it will retain uv's, and baked normals etc will fit on base mesh as they should when making game ready.

You only have one life ... Abuse it well.
The Nerevar
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Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:34 Edited at: 18th Sep 2012 23:41
Thank you, but why is everything so expensive.

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bobochobo
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 00:48 Edited at: 19th Sep 2012 00:49
Quote: "Thank you, but why is everything so expensive."

Blender has decent sculpting features, and you can use it to make your base mesh. And it's free too.

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The Nerevar
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 01:09
but it's too confusing to use.

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Gamestar
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 03:37
Ok,one of the easiest to learn is Sculptris,it can do what mudbox does and it can combine with ZBrush to and from each app..great little program.

The other is the Deled Engine...from here

Another great little modelling program which is easier to use than 3ds Max...

No harm in taking a look....
The Nerevar
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 04:14
thank you, I took a look at them, I think milkshape would be best for me, even it you can't sculpt in it. Maybe I'll give the other programs a try some other day.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
Quik
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Posted: 19th Sep 2012 13:23
max is free- if you are studying, just a note =P

Sculptris is free - sculpting wise, very nice program^^ LAst time I used it it was very unstable though..



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That Guy John
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 19:31
Quick, Sculptris is pretty stable. For what I use it for anyhow.
Two things about it I can't figure out in it is how to export the paint as a texture and I can't figure out how to keep it from destroying the UV map. I always end up exporting it as an .obj and remapping in Ac3d before I can bake anything out of it.

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
CyberGamer
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Posted: 20th Sep 2012 22:21 Edited at: 20th Sep 2012 22:27
Make sure you enable "Show Advanced tools" choose "Save Texmap"
Design Runner
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 05:30
People seem to be sending you a mix between relevant and irrelevant, and correct and incorrect. Your understanding of sculpting is slightly misunderstood for game purposes. A sculpting program is in no way designated for creating a game ready, low polygon, model. What a sculpting program is used for is adding detail which is stored in a normal map, a type of texture map which shaders can take and use to make a low polygon model look more detailed. To put it another way, you have your low polygon game model, and a high polygon (millions) and very high detail sculpted model. Through a process called baking, the detail from the high detail model is cast onto the low detail model and that detail is stored on a texture map called a normal map, using the low detail model's UV map. I recommend you try wings3d, as it is simpler than blender to use, and has many of the essential functions used in 3ds max for basic character modelling. I then recommend you try sculpting in scuptris using the model created in wings 3d as a base. Then try xNormal for baking textures. All of the listed programs are free for commercial use, and capable of high quality results.

If you want to push yourself even further, something to look into would be retopo. In this method you create a base mesh to sculpt in your modelling program (wings 3d for example), then sculpt to your hearts content in a sculpting program (scuptris for example). After this you bring it into a program capable of retopo, some examples would be blender and 3d coat. In retopo you draw a new low poly model directly onto the sculpted model, face by face, and bake the details onto the model you just created. This can achieve the best results but takes a lot more work.

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Quik
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 02:05
Quote: "A sculpting program is in no way designated for creating a game ready, low polygon, model"


To be fair, I use sculpting a lot in my progress to make a game ready model.

I use 3ds max, flesh it out, add a few polies - go into sculpting to make use of the new polies, go to 3ds max, add more - repeat
why?
Because I personally feel this is a LOT easier for organic stuff



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Design Runner
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 18:05
Quote: "To be fair, I use sculpting a lot in my progress to make a game ready model."

You can definitely use scultping tools to change the shape for organic low poly modelling. However for a current generation pipeline, which fpsc technically uses, it is not proper except for the editing of a base mesh. I fully realize in many independent games, shading tools are not used and sculpting the low poly game model is a quick efficient way to get the shapes needed for an organic feel. However, the OP did specify FPSC and I figured if he wants to do this, he might as well do it the fully proper way to achieve the best in-engine quality.

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That Guy John
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 18:11
Thanks Cybergame,
I actually remember that now about exporting the texture.
Anyone else have any clue as to how to keep sculptris from destroying the UV map?

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
Greenster
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Posted: 24th Sep 2012 08:54 Edited at: 24th Sep 2012 08:59
Zbrush is the most streamline and has the most support. The UI is simple too which is extremely rare in any 3D tool. Good luck finding tools that don't cost hundreds; a lot of time and money goes into 3D tools because of the algorithms it demands..

Making models(+texturing) and coding are the easiest stages of game production. Animation is the hardest cause for supported formats there is literally no option besides Autodesk and Blender which have fail usability and limited support.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 13:49
3D Tools ain't generally cheap.

Generally you would sculpt details that would later become a normal map for a base mesh. With something like ZBrush you can generate your low poly base mesh and convert the details to a normal map. What you'll be looking for in your models is to have a low/mid poly base mesh with a texture map and a normal map to simulate the high details of your high polygon mesh.

There are programs that offer sculpting, I know Hexagon 2 has a sculpter, which is okay, iirc it exports greyscale bump maps, which can be converted to normal maps if you've got the tools to do it. Hexagon 2 is still free and you can model your base mesh in there too. I used to have stability problems with it and I don't get a great performance on my Intel GMA card, but then it's a GMA , however, these days it's pretty stable.

http://www.daz3d.com/products/hexagon/hexagon-what-is-hexagon

So you can model, sculpt UV map and texture all in the same editor. I can write up a tutorial to explain how to do it. I've already got a tutorial on how to create your first textured 3D model in Hexagon, here. So I can write up and show you the sculting tools.


If you're willing to pay money, there is Silo 2, which follows the same principle as Hexagon, but in my opinion it's a far superior tool and has more features (for example, it has a retoplogy tool)

If you're not quite willing to go as far as ZBrush's hefty price tag, there's also 3D Coat, which I think is a pretty cool tool, not as great as ZBrush, but exists as a cheaper alternative.


I will post up my Hexagon 2 scultping tut once it's done.

The Nerevar
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 13:56
So, what all of you guys are saying: I can use a base mesh, sculpt out details in scultris (or something else), make the texture on the program, and re-apply the new sculpted model's texture on to the base mesh to use in my games... How do I apply the texture without messing everything up?

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 15:08
The bump/normal map texture is separate from your object texture, so in essence you've got a model with 2 images. How you load it would depend on what you're using, in Dark Basic Pro (using its native bump mapping) you'd load your bump image and apply it using the bump map command, which works like applying a normal texture. If you're using something like Unity3D you'd create a material in the editor choose one of the types of materials that allows for bump/normal mapping and stick your bump map image in there.

In a 3D rennderer you'll have a 'bump map' option in your materials, where you can load a bump map, though the difference between bump mapping in a renderer and bump mapping in a video game is that generally 3D renderers will use a greyscale bump map (like my copy of Carrara does) whilst a game engine would use an RGB normal map. But it's easy to convert one into the other.

Anyway, I wrote up the Hexagon tutorial for sculpting and exporting.
http://seppukuarts.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/hexagon-scultping/

It should hopefully better explain the method, but on a very simple object.

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