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Geek Culture / LIFX - A New Kind Of Light Bulb

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 04:40
Quite the interesting project on Kickstarter, LIFX is a lightbulb that can be controlled by your smartphone. You can turn the light on / off, dim it, change it's colour, sync it to music, sync it to notifications like twitter updates, set it to turn off or dim after a certain amount of time, make it flicker like a strobe light, etc. It gives you a full spectrum of colours to pick from, and there's a free app available on the App Store to use the lights (or you can download their SDK and program your own apps to work with them, I'll be going this route).

And ofcourse if you lose your phone or it dies, the bulbs have the backup functionality of still being able to be controlled by your regular light switch. Pretty cool stuff!

More info here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/limemouse/lifx-the-light-bulb-reinvented

http://thechive.com/2012/09/24/the-light-bulb-of-the-future-your-thoughts-video/
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 04:58
51 days to go and already have over $1 million (USD). That's pretty good. I saw the project when it was just release on Kickstarter and thought "neat." I haven't watched the video though.

I wonder how much they'll make by the time the Kickstarter is over.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 05:03
Yeah, these Kickstarters are really starting to amaze me in terms of how much they can make. I mean, if I had a million dollars, I sure as hell could invent a Wifi enabled light bulb . Not to take anything away from the developers, I think its a great idea, Im just shocked sometimes as to how much money these things can rake in before anything has even been physically sold yet.
Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 15:29
How do these pledges actually work? Do people actually end up paying the money?
RUCCUS
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 15:55
The money leaves your bank account only if the Kickstarter gets 100% (or more) of their goal by their deadline date.
JLMoondog
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 17:12
Date night will never be the same.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 18:30
I imagine this is LED-based, with a microcontroller and relays to get it going.

It'd be cool, and I could see markets in entertainment, but to be fair, I feel like it wouldn't appeal to the average consumer just looking for a lightbulb.

Would be fun for a mood-lit room, though. But any ballpark figures on what this would cost? LED-based lightbulbs are - if I recall correctly - still pretty pricey, though extremely durable and energy efficient.
the_winch
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 20:09
Quote: "I mean, if I had a million dollars, I sure as hell could invent a Wifi enabled light bulb ."


Sounds great, until you realise they don't have a million dollars to invent a wifi enabled light bulb. They have a million dollars to invent then manufacture and ship 23,680 wifi enabled light bulbs.

For example if it costs $25 to get a bulb manufactured and shipped to a customer. That's 23,680 * $25 = $592,000. Oops, now they only have $408,000 to develop the thing.

IMO it's very risky to to fund these sorts of products on kickstarter. They conventionally require huge upfront investments that are earned back over a long period of time.
Since kickstarter essentially just gives you pre-orders you need to fund all the development off the profit margin of these pre-orders.

So while possible in theory you need a huge number of pre-orders for it to actually work, either that or massively inflate the profit margin.

I'm very sceptical this project has anywhere near enough money to actually develop the product. Perhaps if they had 3, 4 or 5 million dollars of orders. I've no idea what on earth they expected to accomplish if they had only reached their initial $100,000 target.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
Phaelax
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 20:32
My question is.... what's the point?

Quote: "The money leaves your bank account only if the Kickstarter gets 100% (or more) of their goal by their deadline date"

Looks like they got over 10 times what they wanted.

Quote: "I'm very sceptical this project has anywhere near enough money to actually develop the product."

I don't. I believe the components involved in this are relatively cheap and I don't think the design is overly complex. I've seen SD cards with wifi built-in. Wanna transfer pics from your camera wireless but camera doesn't support it? Now it does.

I'm just wondering how they use the phone app to get the bulb to connect to the existing wifi network.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
ionstream
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 20:47
Yeah I'm sort of with Phaelax on this one. It is cool, sure, but it's not a paradigm shifting product. And the guy in the video, what's his deal? "Lightbulbs haven't changed much in the last 100 years"? I'd argue that they've changed a great deal. Also CFL bulbs come in a wide variety of color temperatures. You can get the daylight 5500K (blueish) bulbs, or the soft white 3000k ones that more match incandescent, as well as others in between. I myself have both kinds - the daylight bulbs seem to supplement daylight well when the light doesn't reach certain parts of the room, and the soft whites are good for evening and night time.

Quote: "Sounds great, until you realise they don't have a million dollars to invent a wifi enabled light bulb."


The video says they've built 12 prototypes so far, so I imagine they aren't strapped for cash on the design front and have probably already settled on one.

Melancholic
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 21:21
A wifi enabled light bulb? The thing that excites me most about this is hacking the neighbours wifi and messing with their light bulbs


I can count to banana...
RUCCUS
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Posted: 25th Sep 2012 22:00 Edited at: 25th Sep 2012 22:01
I'm sure they had settled on a prototype before launching the Kickstarter, thats what most Kickstarter projects revolve around; a prototype that works that requires a little more funding to get marketing, manufacturing connections, etc up. I really don't see why you think a controllable lightbulb is nearly as complex as a complete video game winch (I know you didn't specifically say this, but you mentioned "kickstarters like this", which makes me think you mean a product like this is more complex than the Kickstarter norm which is usually a video game. I apologize if I've read out of context). I would think $100,000 is more than enough to develop something like this, but to each his own I guess.

As far as the interest this would develop for the average consumer, I would have to disagree there as well. I discovered this product through Facebook, as several of my friends had posted it with a comment along the lines of "Im getting this!!!". And these friends aren't technically savvy, they just think its a cool idea. That's not to say my friends represent the consumer mind of the entire world, but if it's been posted on The Chive (which doesn't typically post stuff like this), then there's a good chance there is a broader interest in this product than just professionals.

In terms of security, I would be very surprised if they didn't have at least a basic password system set up on top of the user's personal WiFi password.
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 02:00
Funnily enough I was about to post this as my brother has an extremely close friend working on this project.

He has actually seen one of the prototypes in person and these light bulbs are going work just as they are advertised.

Quote: "My question is.... what's the point?"

This is just quite a silly question. It's a light bulb that is not only energy efficient, it's convenient, and entertaining. The blinking notification aspect to the bulb alone IMO makes it worthwhile. I can't count how many times I've forgotten my phone was on silent as it sits next to me and I never realized I'd gotten a message.
If it doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't appeal to you. I find it hard to argue the fact that it'd be extremely convenient to turn off a light with your phone though.

This light bulb isn't marketed to the average consumer. It's not a light bulb that will ever fill 90% of the houses on this planet. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a large marketing base (which is already quite obvious by its kickstarter.)

At any rate, this light bulb WILL exist. Do I want one? I do, but I don't want to spend the money lol.

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I am awesome....... Yeah, that works.
Nickydude
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 06:27
I want one!

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Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 06:44
I can't think of any reason I'd need to control my lights remotely.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Agent Dink
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 08:13
It's not necessarily about need... It's fun!

I would love to buy a few of these when they come out.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 09:15
It's the Apple model. It invents something no-one ever needed or waned, then makes it sound so cool that people want it.

Then they'll invariably set it to one colour and just dim it now and again to watch movies. The idea of having a lightbulb blink to notify you of incoming texts would be extremely annoying - more so than just a ringtone and vibrate. Imagine trying to watch TV while having an active text conversation, or worse, reading a book.
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 09:30 Edited at: 26th Sep 2012 09:32
Quite frankly, anyone looking at this from a practicality standpoint shouldn't be here. I agree with Agent Dink, this is about fun.

Quote: "The idea of having a lightbulb blink to notify you of incoming texts would be extremely annoying - more so than just a ringtone and vibrate. Imagine trying to watch TV while having an active text conversation, or worse, reading a book."

It sounds like it's configurable, so it doesn't necessarily have to do that. It may be useful for some, and others might not like it. I personally wouldn't find it annoying at all. But to each his own.

----------

Unless these are cheap, I wouldn't buy 'em (without purpose). The Kickstarter rewards indicate that the bulbs would likely be near $100. I haven't watched the video though, so maybe they've specified otherwise.

By "purpose," btw, I mean something like "I'm going to make this room my music room. It'll have lights that change color based on the pitch of the notes my amp is putting out." Now that would be fun, IMO.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 11:15
What if I don't have a smart phone? Is there no alternative controller that can be purchased?

Shh... you're pretty.
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 11:36
I think it was mentioned that there would be an SDK, in general, so one could do so through the computer (or other capable device), but I haven't reviewed to confirm.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 15:47
@Obese: I think an argument can be made for purchasing a smart phone before a smart light bulb . But yes, there's an SDK.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 17:16
If these came in at a < $50 price point, I would buy enough for at least my living room and bedroom, and I would install special lighting fixtures. This is a cheap, relatively easy way to modernize a house and set a great mood. You might like dim warm lights for reading or watching TV / movies or brighter, whiter lights for doing work, and colored lights for holidays, I can picture this making for a gorgeous Christmas setup in your living room having the lights cycle between red, white, and green, or syncing them to some orchestral Christmas music.

Would be fabulous...
RUCCUS
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 17:55
I can people see writing a little program that automatically dims the lights when you play a movie, hooking up sensors in rooms to turn the lights on or off as you enter or leave a room, hooking them up to an alarm system to cause them to flash red when there is a break in, writing a program to have the lights dim as it gets sunnier in rooms with windows, there are many possibilities.
heyufool1
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 00:41
Quote: "I can people see writing a little program that automatically dims the lights when you play a movie, hooking up sensors in rooms to turn the lights on or off as you enter or leave a room, hooking them up to an alarm system to cause them to flash red when there is a break in, writing a program to have the lights dim as it gets sunnier in rooms with windows, there are many possibilities."

That would be awesome! I would be interested in a program that went from colder to warmer colors depending on the volume of music playing

- Demo!
Blobby 101
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 00:49
This does look very cool, I'm gonna wait for the price before I get too excited though

What would be really cool though would be making a program to match the brightness/warmth of the lightbulbs in a room with no windows to the sunlight outside (using a light sensor).

Agent Dink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 02:30
Rage out with heavy metal in my basement is what I want to do with these (not that there aren't other lighting options for that, these are just way cooler!)
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 11:31
I'm guessing a strobe lighting effect? Perfect way to discover if you're prone to photosensitive epilepsy.

the_winch
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 20:33 Edited at: 28th Sep 2012 20:34
Quote: "I'm sure they had settled on a prototype before launching the Kickstarter, thats what most Kickstarter projects revolve around; a prototype that works that requires a little more funding to get marketing, manufacturing connections, etc up."


Yet all they have on their kickstarter page is 3d renders and some very raw prototypes? If they had a product ready for manufacturing they would show it. Just like if you had a nearly completed game you would show game play footage not just concept art.

Quote: "I really don't see why you think a controllable lightbulb is nearly as complex as a complete video game winch (I know you didn't specifically say this, but you mentioned "kickstarters like this", which makes me think you mean a product like this is more complex than the Kickstarter norm which is usually a video game."


I wasn't really talking about complexity like that. More how the economics work over the products lifetime.
Video games are very different to a lot of physical products in that respect which makes them a lot more suitable for the kickstarter model.

1) They tend to payback relatively quickly. Nobody develops a video game with the aim of turning a profit in 10 years time.
2) They cost next to nothing to copy and distribute via the internet.
3) The copying and distribution process scales easily.

Physical products on the other hand.

1) Due to economies of scale often have huge initial investments that payback slowly. Like having to spend huge sums of money on automated assembly lines that spit out cheap components 27-4. If you don't have other sources of income this can cause horrendous cash flow issues while the machinery is paying itself off.
2) They can be expensive to manufacture and distribute.
3) The manufacturing and distribution process can be very hard and expensive to scale.

Quote: "As far as the interest this would develop for the average consumer, I would have to disagree there as well. I discovered this product through Facebook, as several of my friends had posted it with a comment along the lines of "Im getting this!!!". And these friends aren't technically savvy, they just think its a cool idea."


That's part of the problem as well. The company where I work usually takes a couple of years from the start of product development to the product launch. Production usually starts to ramp up 6 months before launch if things have been going well.
Is the average person on the street really aware how long the pipeline between early prototype and getting the product in their hands really is? You could easily put your money in today and get the product a couple of years later. Especially if they have cash flow problems and start prioritising new orders over kickstarter orders.

Quote: "I would think $100,000 is more than enough to develop something like this, but to each his own I guess."


How much do you think it costs to get type approval for a device that a) connects to the mains and b) communicates over RF? The $50,000 you would get to play with from that $100,000 would be gone on that alone. You can save money over the big corporations with a lean talented and committed team to a certain extent but there are fixed costs you can't avoid.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
RUCCUS
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 20:40
The Kickstarter page has a video of him demonstrating the prototype. I don't understand why you think this is still just an idea.
Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 20:42
Sounds pretty cool, but light bulbs (even the cheaper, incandescent ones) are pretty expensive. It'd surely be much more economical to develop a controller for a series of lights, rather than giving each individual bulb its own WiFi and such?
Libervurto
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 00:03
@Benjamin
But these are designed to fit into regular sockets, as far as I can tell.

Shh... you're pretty.
bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 02:47
LEDs have a lifespan of decades don't they?

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me. Also yes I changed my name. It was time for a change.
Indicium
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 02:55
Quote: "LEDs have a lifespan of decades don't they?"


Indeed, I'm sure it says somewhere that the bulbs are rated for 25 years usage.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 06:54
In my future house, these bulbs will be the lights in my office! And entertainment room, as the color-changing idea is EPIC!

It's funny, the other day I was wondering what new innovation would come about and then I see this posted. Now that the idea is out there, I can't believe no one's really tried to market this idea yet. It seems so obvious - control your lights with your phone! Brilliantly simple idea!

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 14:43
Hmmm...

I wonder if you can get them to communicate with a TV via some sort of video output, and invert their colour to that of the TV.

It's the same principle as the AmbiLight series of TVs, and apparently helps the eye pick out details and contrast by mounting such a thing behind the TV.

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