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Geek Culture / a question for desktop coders

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The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 20:26 Edited at: 25th Nov 2012 20:33
If a new company suddenly appeared with a brand new compiler based on an object oriented BASIC language targeting OpenGL 3.x AND DirectX 10\11 and was available for Windows, Linux and MAC what would your thoughts be?

A few notes:

*It won't be compatible with DarkBasic at all or any of its plugins. It won't be connected with TGC at all.

*It won't support DirectX9 at all (Win XP will need to use OpenGL 3.3)

*It will support
.3ds, .obj, .x, .ac and .ms3d model formats plus others out of the box.

*It will support multicore\threaded code out of the box

*nested user types such as


and object orientated code such as



will be possible.


I've already started work on this and I'm just seeing how much response I get before I continue any further.

The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 20:28
The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 20:28
The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 20:29
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 20:30
My thoughts? They would be something along the lines of "HECK YEAH!!"

Just don't make it like GLBasic... that engine is sorta crappy, and I don't like that it uses all UPPERCASE COMMANDS. It's annoying.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 20:37
I like OOP, I prefer coding in it, so it may attract me. However, it would require me to learn a new tool for game creation, whilst I am always happy to learn and expand, chances are I'll think it's cool, try it out, learn enough to use it and then crawl back to TGC products.

Seriously, it has happened many times before with products I thought were cool. Though the last time that happened I went to Dark GDK instead of crawling back to DBP, so I like to think that's an improvement. I suppose if I were ever to go back to basic, it'd be Visual Basic + Dark GDK.NET. When I look at your snippets, I am pretty much thinking I'd be able to code like that with VB + DGDK.NET, but to be fair DGDK.NET is outdated and doesn't even keep up with Dark Basic Pro's updates, let alone keeping up-to-date with the latest direct X technologies.

Either way, it features sound attractive and if it's stable, I am sure it would be an attractive product.

Jeku
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 23:07
@The Weeping Corpse - Please do not double, triple, or quadruple post. It's kind of annoying for mods. You can simply edit your first post in the future. Thanks!


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
WLGfx
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 23:24
@Weeping Corpse - A basic language package with full cross-platform capabilities and extensible in the way you're suggesting would be ideal, especially if it did come with a fully working 3D engine behind it. Although more recently I've been using FreeBasic, it doesn't come with a 3D engine behind it, it does open you up to openGL AND there's already add-ons for DirectX and Irrlicht. And it's as OO as you will get for a Basic language too. It is not as simple for the beginner to use as Dark Basic is though.

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
MrValentine
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 23:30
I would say, it would for me, be more dependent on the development environment, less the simplicity of the coding... I am starting to get excited by complicated coding as of recent

I am now looking at VS2012 and can say it will take me a while to adapt... [Consider this sound advice, keep the interface simple!]

Indicium
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 23:41
Quote: "more dependent on the development environment, less the simplicity of the coding"


You're more bothered about the IDE than the language?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
MrValentine
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 23:45 Edited at: 26th Nov 2012 13:56
Quote: "You're more bothered about the IDE than the language?"


Well, the language is good enough, but if the tools surrounding it [Should it be proprietry] may kill it in the water before anybody attempts at it...

But of course I would want the Language to be user friendly too

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 23:47
Quote: "You're more bothered about the IDE than the language"
I'd say they are both very important, but this being BASIC, and very much like other versions of BASIC, language isn't too important here. The IDE is very significant, a bad IDE can completely ruin the usability of the language while a good IDE can significantly improve the performance and productivity of the programmer.

"That's what"
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Dar13
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 03:25
If I heard of this package being put together the first thing that I would think of would be incredulity, as all of those features working together properly and easily without devastating bugs is almost unfathomable.

Though if it existed, I would start frothing at the mouth lol.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 04:38
Looking at the OP, this looks like a wonderful language. If you pull this off, you better bet I'd be interested in using it.

"That's what"
-She
DevilLiger
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 11:01 Edited at: 26th Nov 2012 11:14
If it can support android, ios, Linux, Windows, Mac than yes. If it uses Open GL 2.X - 4.X and Open Gl ES 2.0/3.0. Than yes all the way. Especially don't need to buy many plug ins and also comes in as one complete giant package. Than it would be a great program.
nonZero
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 12:42
Sounds great.

One thing I don't get is why have UDTs at all? If you're gonna go OOP, then why not just have classes? Unless it's for user-familiarity for BASIC users?

RP Functions Library v1.0

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Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 13:27
Quote: "You're more bothered about the IDE than the language?"

Unless you're one of those crazy people who still write their C code with VI editor, *shudders* (i've seen it), then a quality IDE is an important part of the coding experience.

If you recall the original IDE for DB classic, I highly doubt I would still be here after 10 years.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Sergey K
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 19:14 Edited at: 26th Nov 2012 19:15
well i belive the next generation of DBP (DarkBasic Elite) will support most of those stuff you wrote.

but for my opinian, it would be gr8 to see new projects just like DBP compiler.

althought im a delphi programmer, so it will be intresting to find something that can be imported as a library on C++/ C# and Delphi.
just like DarkGDK - if something like this will exists, i defnately go with it!

[http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=201709&b=5]Advanced Updater[/href] for your games!
The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 21:33
WOW thanks for all the positive feedback so far. I can't respond to each post but:

@Jeku I'm sorry about the multi posts. I've seen other threads with empty\spare posts and thought it was acceptable, my bad. If you can delete those spare posts then that's fine with me.

@DevilLiger I'm not going to support anything less than OpenGL 3.x on desktops but I have been reading about OpenGL ES 2.0 and coding for Android today, WebGL also looks interesting.

@nonZero I've got basic class code but its not working yet, for example the following code will be possible:



ok, with regards to the IDE. At the moment I'm just using notepad and the compiler is command line based. So, tell me what features would you like to see in an IDE.

And to any doubters, this isn't just blue sky thinking. I am going forward with this project I'm using it to code my Horror FPS -Jessica's Doll.

At the moment I'm compiling to my own version of p-code not to machine code, that's some way off yet. I guess that will put some people off but jumping straight into machine code at this early stage would be silly.

stay tuned folks.

Sergey K
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 22:36
@The Weeping Corpse: i could help you with IDE and other sub tools if you want.. i will be glad to help you with this project.

[http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=201709&b=5]Advanced Updater[/href] for your games!
The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 23:34
@Sergey K thanks for the offer. I intend to code the IDE in freepascal \ lazarus. Would that be a problem for you?

WLGfx
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Posted: 27th Nov 2012 01:34 Edited at: 27th Nov 2012 01:37
@Weeping Corpse - When it comes to parsing and recognising OO in the syntax, FreeBasic has a lot of it sussed but not as complete as C++ yet. Here's a snippet from something I started to proto-type some code in FB to test out on both Windows and Linux -


As you can see you can implement methods to TYPE's in FreeBasic. Something that is pretty hard to do in other Basic languages apart from Visual Basic. But then again FB is free...

EDIT: I forgot to mention again, FB does not have a 3D engine behind it though, only wrappers that are provided by other users. But it is cross-platform...

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
Sergey K
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Posted: 27th Nov 2012 08:06
Quote: "@Sergey K thanks for the offer. I intend to code the IDE in freepascal \ lazarus. Would that be a problem for you?"

its a great Coincidence! because im a delphi programmer, and i do know pascal.
take a look on my latest project design i made on my signature. it was writen in delphi (pascal)

so if you have skype;
Sergey Kirienko or gogetax

[http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=201709&b=5]Advanced Updater[/href] for your games!
The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 6th Dec 2012 19:44
Sorry its taken me so long to reply.

@Sergey K cool, I've been using Delphi since version 1 was released in the mid 90s although I never bothered to upgrade past Delphi 7 which is the version I still use. Prior to that I used Visual Basic 3 (yuk) and Turbo C mixed with 8088 assembler and some embedded micro controller PIC stuff.

Anyways...so if I get an alpha version of an IDE up and running in freepascal and then give you the project would you be able to continue work on it? that would enable me to concentrate 100% on the compiler.

@WLGfx thanks for the heads up on freebasic. The language I'm developing will have full 3D engine built in, as well as a 2D engine for scrolling games and the beginings of an isometric engine.

I'm making it so that the core engine routines can be overloaded and replaced by user code if needed. I'm paying particularly close attention to how the engine handles lots of hidden\unused objects and how multiple cameras are used.



The indoor culling is based on portal\sector setup with an octree structure and frustum culling. Over the weekend I'm going to update the frustum culling to use SIMD instructions, I think I might be able to test 4 bounding spheres simultaneously.

I'm working flat out on this now, all my spare time outside of my full time job is going into this project, so I can get a demo version working for you guys to download and try asap.

stay tuned folks.

The Weeping Corpse
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Posted: 17th Feb 2013 13:11
Please don't hate on me for this empty post, I just want to make sure this thread isn't closed. More info is incomming...

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