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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Spine Kickstarter

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Wilf
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 12:45
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Hi all,
I've just discovered Spine, which is a 2d skeletal animation system. I've downloaded the demo and it feels nicer to use than Spriter. The only thing its missing right now is spritesheet generation, but they say thats coming.

They are having a Kickstarter campaign here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/esotericsoftware/spine

Maybe if enough of us back it, we can get AppGameKit added as a runtime.
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baxslash
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 13:13
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This looks like a great alternative to Spriter. It will be interesting to see how many of these sort of tools come out after the success of Spriter.


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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george++
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 14:49
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Thanks for the link. I like it more than the Spriter
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Impetus73
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 15:30
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It says, that if you fund them with $3500 or more, they will make runtime libraries for the game library of your choice... I wonder if they could make it for AppGameKit? Might make it in Tier 2, then TGC would have to include it in Tier 1?

I just installed Windows 8, it's awesome, on a stationary PC with 2 screens. I thought it would suck, but no! It's cheap to upgrade online until feb 1, after that it's 4 times as expensive.

Anyone having problems with AppGameKit on windows 8? or is it stable, as long as you run it as an administrator?

----------------
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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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baxslash
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 16:55
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Backed it. Quality looking product which does what Spriter is nearly doing but geared more towards the way I would like it to work. My own Character Workshop may eventually become redundant! I wish I had the time to really get my own version more user friendly. Currently it works really well with my tier 1 command set but I haven't the time to spend making it really neat.

I am using my own system on a current TGC game in development and it works pretty well but it would be much better to include a command set that would work with a professional tool like Spine or Spriter.

I have to say the Spriter output is very hard to use, I started making a new set of commands for tier 1 a while back and I just got really sick of having to read data in a disjointed / illogical order and work out which bits were useful, which weren't needed etc. It's over-thought. The data actually needed to animate a character is far simpler than the masses of data spewed out by Spriter.


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george++
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 21:37
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I never looked at seriously to the Spriter. What kind of data of Spriter are unnecessary?
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bjadams
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 21:54
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Baxslash +1 or the dedicated command set for a tool that is "industry standard"

In the past 2 months I have already had 3 queries from different artists asking if I support Spriter animations
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baxslash
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 22:40
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george++, perhaps unnecessary is not the right way of describing it. Spriter output just seems very un-intuitive. I made my own system rather than using it, that's how frustrating I found it. I would like to see which system really takes hold of the market but I think a Tier 1 spriter command set would be very welcome. It certainly won't be in V108 though as adding new commands at this point is seriously against our plan for getting AppGameKit solid.

bjadams, why don't you have a go at a command set of your own? I might be convinced to have another look at making a Tier 1 command set again in my own time if there's enough call for it.


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JimHawkins
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Posted: 27th Jan 2013 23:37
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Would it not be easier to prototype command sets in Tier 2 or Pascal, and only after they are proven make a case for inclusion in T1? Essentially, what's needed is data structures that methods that can feasibly be imagined to work in T1, properly coded, tested, and then handed over.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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baxslash
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Posted: 28th Jan 2013 08:17
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I don't use Tier 2 at the moment but I might make an exception to learn a little C++ to try out some of the libraries already produced for Spriter.

I did want to try Pascal too but I'm not sure how easy it would be to transfer into the AppGameKit libraries if I got a decent set of commands working?


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JimHawkins
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Posted: 28th Jan 2013 10:16
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That depends how complex it is and whether language-specific libraries are called. Delphi/FPC programmers tend to use SysUtils a lot - but there will be an equivalent core C++ library.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 28th Jan 2013 10:32
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Looking at Spine's JSON file output it should not be too difficult to load and use this. I don't know what the "curve" field is doing but basic each substructure element is for a specific key-frame time, giving the angle.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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baxslash
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Posted: 28th Jan 2013 10:43
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Spine's output is much more like my CW output. I'll take a proper look when I have time.


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Impetus73
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Posted: 28th Jan 2013 18:18
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I think the "curve" field, is adjusting how the speed of rotation or movement is changing between keyframes? Like start to spin fast, then slow down towards next keyframe?

----------------
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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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Zwarteziel
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Posted: 20th Feb 2013 06:09
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Just ran into this thread and decided to back the campaign. So far, it looks like it is doing extremely well: all runtime-stretch goals have been met, which is good news for T2 users I guess. Since I'm a T1-kind-a-guy, I'd love to see this supported further. Here's to hoping the JSON-data can be read and used in our functions!
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3d point in space
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Posted: 20th Feb 2013 21:26 Edited at: 21st Feb 2013 01:23
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yea I been working on something similar but it is not as advanced as this guy is showing I do not have a lot of the features that his version has. I am not sure how to implement bones into agk. However I am using box 2d too do some things that I think are pretty amazing. This does look much better than spriter does, so far, and the output is much cleaner. I have been putting a gui together with agk. I am just doing mine for fun, not for profit currently. I Don't even think people will use mine so I guess that is ok. This looks like it was made in Orge from the GUI. I have tried it and there is alot of bugs but the gui is pretty well done.
He needs more documentation on how to work it I dont even know how to use it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STqmHhOtriY

this shows you how easy it is to create a rope with my gui.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 21st Feb 2013 10:39
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Nice! I will use it when my graphic designer is unavailable

Long life to Steve!
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 21st Feb 2013 11:28
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I have already backed Spriter but I decided to back this too. It looks simpler and cleaner than Spriter. However, Spriter seems to have more features. We'll see which one I'll use. Main problem is T1 support of course.


Demo 2 is out! Click the image for more.
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NateS
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2013 15:14
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Hey guys! I'm Nate from the Kickstarter video. Just found this thread.

The JSON format has been documented:
http://esotericsoftware.com/spine-json-format

Only 7 hours left then the Kickstarter is over. Last chance to get a license at a big discount. Remember, you get all future updates for free!
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baxslash
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2013 17:58
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Hi NateS, I backed Spine. I'd really like to see some native Spine commands in AGK. I'm keeping a close eye on those stretch goals as the more languages you cover the easier it would potentially be to get native commands in AppGameKit


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3d point in space
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2013 18:12 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2013 18:45
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Nice job Nate I will be will use my own gui for right know. I am more use to it any way, mine is not as good but hay I think I can do most stuff with it. Not that I want to use it I just find my self to busy to actually try yours. You need more info on how to use it. That would be my first suggestion, yea that is actually the hardest part too, but maybe I will get spine later when I am not having to do a million things. That is my problem I buy a program and never use it because I am not really going into game design any more.

And I found that you can't scale sprites in box 2d why you use physics on it. Well this is the case in agk. So I don't know if that will be the case for you.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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baxslash
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2013 18:55 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2013 18:56
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3d, you are wrong sprites can be scaled in AppGameKit, you just have to update the shape. Unless something has changed recently anyway. I was scaling physics sprites to simulate explosions months ago...


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3d point in space
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2013 19:28
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well i guess I need too look into silver light thanks baxslash I think i look into that.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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3d point in space
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2013 19:31 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2013 19:32
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well i guess I need too look into silver light to make an key-framing possible, but not sure how to mix mfc with silver light
I guess I will find out. thanks baxslash I think i look into that I was not up-dating my scene.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
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