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Geek Culture / Plasma Speaker #2 - Need your help

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TheComet
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Posted: 6th Mar 2013 22:32
Hey all,


I need some feedback on the documentation I've written for my improved plasma speaker. If you don't know much about electronics, please give it a shot and tell me if you understand it or not. It's aimed at the "average" person.

Let me know the following:

-Easy to understand?
-What didn't you understand?
-Language?
-Structure?
-Anything missing?

Attached are all of the files of the project. The document is located under "docs/guide.pdf". Please note that it's not quite complete yet, I still need to include some measurements and stuff.

The PCB is not confirmed to work yet. I ordered it 2 weeks ago and it should arrive within the next week. So if you trust my expertise enough, you can go ahead and place your own order if you want one as well, otherwise wait until I can confirm that it actually works.

For those of you who don't know what a plasma speaker is, here is an old video of my prototype:



Disclaimer:
By downloading these files you agree to make no warranty or claims about the safety of the design and are held fully responsible for death, injury or any form of damage resulting from the use or misuse of this design.

Thank you for your time,

TheComet

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 6th Mar 2013 23:16
*Professional looking post*
*Professional looking electronics setup*
*Pony music*
*Extremely professional looking document*

Nah but really, you seem to have done an amazing arse job on that document. I didn't read anywhere near all of it, but it looks great. Nice work!
TheComet
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Posted: 9th Mar 2013 20:32
Thanks for the feedback.

TheComet

Phaelax
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Posted: 9th Mar 2013 23:40
How does that thing make sound?

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 9th Mar 2013 23:54
My guess is that it simply pulses the spark in a PWM type manner to create the sounds. Comet shall have to verify this!
TheComet
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 01:54 Edited at: 10th Mar 2013 01:54
Quote: "How does that thing make sound?"


Wikipedia sums up my thoughts better:

Quote: "Plasma speakers are a form of loudspeaker which varies air pressure via a high-energy electrical plasma instead of a solid diaphragm. Connected to the output of an audio amplifier, plasma speakers vary the size of a plasma glow discharge, corona discharge or electric arc which then acts as a massless radiating element, creating the compression waves in air that listeners perceive as sound. The technique is an evolution of William Duddell's "singing arc" of 1900, and an innovation related to ion thruster spacecraft propulsion.

The effect takes advantage of two unique principles. Firstly, ionization of gases causes their electrical resistance to drop significantly, making them extremely efficient conductors, which allows them to vibrate sympathetically with magnetic fields. Secondly, the involved plasma, itself a field of ions, has a relatively negligible mass. Thus as current frequency varies, more-resistant air remains mechanically coupled with and is driven by vibration of the more conductive and essentially-massless plasma, radiating a potentially ideal reproduction of the sound source."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_speaker

Quote: "My guess is that it simply pulses the spark in a PWM type manner to create the sounds. Comet shall have to verify this! "


Exactly.

It's a Class-D amplifier. In the graph below is the audio signal (top graph, sinus), and the output signal which drives the ignition coil (bottom graph):



When there's no audio signal, the coil is being driven by a 40kHz square wave, which creates a noiseless electric arc. As soon as you start modulating the signal, you can think of the electric arc "firing" sooner and later. The difference in firing times is directly proportional to the audio input signal, and is audible by ear.

TheComet

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 02:34 Edited at: 10th Mar 2013 02:35
So I assume you have the pulsing to have the coil create the voltages you need. If you had like, a 20kv DC supply could you do this without PWM?

Looks like it's time to go buy a crap load of batteries and construct a lethal battery bank!
TheComet
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 02:58
Quote: "So I assume you have the pulsing to have the coil create the voltages you need. If you had like, a 20kv DC supply could you do this without PWM?"


The PWM is essential. The only way to get the music into the spark is through some form of alternating signal, so a DC supply probably wouldn't work. If you're suggesting to use a DC supply in order to overcome the problem of using a coil in the first place, then good luck in finding transistors that can withstand 20kV and still switch at a reasonable frequency.

TheComet

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 03:26
Ah, makes sense! No need to find special transistors, I just enchant them with high voltage level 5.
TheComet
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 03:44
And don't forget unbreaking III!

TheComet

Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 19:07
What controls the volume of the sound?

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
TheComet
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Posted: 10th Mar 2013 20:33
Quote: "What controls the volume of the sound?"


Two factors. The distance the arc jumps, and how strong you modulate the square wave with the audio signal.

TheComet

Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 01:57
What could affect the quality of the sound? Is this something that could outperform a typical speaker? Is the required power linear to that of a typical speaker in terms of loudness?

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
TheComet
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Posted: 11th Mar 2013 09:23
Quote: "What could affect the quality of the sound?"


Imperfections (inductive and capacitive properties) of the various components driving the coil will have an influence. For example, a perfect square wave isn't possible to generate, you'll always have transition times and inductive spikes, as can be seen in this picture:



The other thing is what material you use for the spark gap and what shape you make it. It needs to be material that doesn't oxidize easily, and preferably each electrode should be be pointy. My prototype does none of that.

Quote: "Is this something that could outperform a typical speaker?"


For high sounds, yes. The big difference between conventional speakers and plasma speakers is conventional speakers have a certain mass. Because of this, they will also have a limit to how fast they can vibrate (I believe the tweeters have a limit of around 80 kHz). Plasma speakers on the other hand have no mass, and thus also have no upper frequency limit.

For low sounds, the mass becomes an advantage. Plasma speakers are unable to produce deep sounds (<80 Hz or so), so conventional speakers will certainly outperform a plasma speaker when it comes to deep sounds.

Quote: "Is the required power linear to that of a typical speaker in terms of loudness?"


The output loudness is linear when above a certain frequency threshold. As mentioned above, deep sounds are lost, so there's some form of a high-pass filter.

TheComet

TheComet
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Posted: 13th Mar 2013 18:35 Edited at: 13th Mar 2013 18:36
Well, the PCB arrived! Hand made, straight from two guys in Afrika. It was incredibly cheap, I only paid 25 bucks for the entire thing (I'm splitting the price with someone else, it was 50 for two of them). Look at the quality, they didn't even use a solder mask. It gets the job done though, and that's all that's important.

http://i.imgur.com/cYnjAzy.jpg

I also got this dorky hat, which of course I'll wear, just to annoy people:
http://i.imgur.com/DAFUvQr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/W4Pi496.jpg

I'm assembling the sucker now, will report back as soon as I know it works or not.

TheComet

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 13th Mar 2013 22:36 Edited at: 13th Mar 2013 22:37
Ah! I'm sure getting that PCB is a good feeling.

And epic shirt you got there

Indicium
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 00:42
I do like the t-shirt.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
TheComet
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 17:31
Thanks!

I've assembled the logic section of the circuit, and that part works, so there's a high chance the whole thing will work.

TheComet

baxslash
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2013 11:07
Bumping this thread by request (and unlocking) as TheComet has some further news on this. I hope it's worth it!

"Here I am trying to do some good for the world..." - Fluffy Rabbit
TheComet
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2013 12:26
Thanks for the unlock!

Status on this project: Things have happened.

To be more exact, when I first requested the unlock two weeks ago, the circuit was running perfectly. Of course now that the thread is unlocked, the circuit has managed to destroy itself multiple times. Go figure.

Anyway, the following modification has improved reliability of it not blowing up, but hasn't quite fixed it yet. The FETs short out whenever I first plug the circuit into the mains, and I'm not sure what is causing it.



I've also begun winding a tesla coil, and will attach the plasma speaker to it when that's done. In theory, I should have a musical tesla coil, but we'll see.

(this is an old picture, I'm about half way now)


TheComet

Kezzla
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2013 13:00
Quote: "I've also begun winding a tesla coil, and will attach the plasma speaker to it when that's done. In theory, I should have a musical tesla coil, but we'll see.

(this is an old picture, I'm about half way now)"


A mate of mine used to play with this kind of thing, His trick for winding things fast was to use a drill to spin the coil holder.

Dunno if that is in anyway helpful, but that winding job sure looks tedious.

Burn retina, burn!
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 4th Sep 2013 00:06
Yo, that is A LOT of flux on that soldering job.
TheComet
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Posted: 4th Sep 2013 00:08
I've had to replace those components like 6 times, that's why.

TheComet

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 4th Sep 2013 00:16
Ah, gotcha. Must be frustrating!
TheComet
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Posted: 7th Sep 2013 17:34
Secondary coil is finished. (Click images to enlarge to 13M)





It took me a total of 13 hours (I did it by hand). The tube is 850mm high with 0.2mm coil. That’s 4250 turns, which means I did approximately 6 turns a minute.

Update on the circuit blowing up: It no longer blows up after another fix I did.

I hope to upload a video within the next week of showing it in action with some sparks.

TheComet

Your opinion and the incorporation of thermal noise equations in a high-voltage oscillator circuit are mutually equivalent in relevance.
TheComet
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Posted: 8th Sep 2013 21:18 Edited at: 8th Sep 2013 21:23
Got the frame cut today. The secondary coil will be mounted on the top where the large hole is. The triangle cutouts you see will support the primary coil. Underneath I've made enough space to house all of the electronics required to drive this thing.

I've also done some calculations. The secondary coil has an inductance of about 0.5H. The target frequency is 100kHz, which means the estimated output voltage will be 500'000V. This can generate a (musical) spark which can jump about half a metre.

Not too shabby.





TheComet

Your opinion and the incorporation of thermal noise equations in a high-voltage oscillator circuit are mutually equivalent in relevance.
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 8th Sep 2013 21:21
Quote: "which means the estimated output voltage will be 500'000V."
Lick it to make sure!

Libervurto
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Posted: 9th Sep 2013 22:41
You'll have to post a video of you turning it on for the first time.
Place your bets!:

* Blows out the house's power - 3:1
* Instant death - 7:1
* Opens portal to hell - 36:1


Formerly OBese87.
Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 01:15
Quote: "Opens portal to hell - 36:1"


Odds are 666:1


I'm going to bet he melts the outlet plug into the wall.

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