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Geek Culture / Bitterly disappointed with SimCity 2013.

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Burning Feet Man
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 06:01
No doubt a lot of you reading this are too! But, the real question is, can The Game Creators community make a better 2013 City Simulator? I reckon you guys can.

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Quik
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 07:00
I'm not THAT disappointed, really the only thing I miss is the mapsize, other than that I quite love it really



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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 07:51
Anything that requires a constant Internet connection to work when it could have just as easily been designed not to is unacceptable. Period.

Thraxas
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 08:51
I'm not really disappointed by the game. I think it's pretty good, more than pretty good actually. Do I like that I couldn't play it for 3 days after launch because of the server issues? No. Will that stop me playing it now? Not at all.

I'm not a fan of always online games for single player as my internet is sporadic sometimes, but I guess I just don't care enough to boycott the game or let it spoil my fun with it.

Quik
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 09:53
Exactly what thraxas said And i could play it one day after launch just fine <bought it then> so I cant really complain on that either



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baxslash
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 10:58
I'm addicted, built 2 cities the other night... I'm not that keen on the always on connection issue (or always off which is more appropriate) but the game itself is fantastic. I love it.

I couldn't get even close to beating it but it wouldn't be that fun to make anyway, it's all about number crunching and statistics (aside from the gfx of course).


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Libervurto
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 14:40
It looks a lot of fun, and about as intuitive to play as is possible with a simulation, but I don't like the restrictions on city size, terraforming and always-online. It seems like you build a small city in an hour and then that's it, you move on to a new small city and the old one is frozen in time so it barely interacts with anything. I feel like they totally failed with the "multi-player" aspects of the game, which leads me to believe that it was a decision that was forced on Maxis by EA.


Quik
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 15:25
I think people misunderstand what the "multiplayer" is supposed to accomplish..

IT's not as much multiplayer as it is "social game", like in facebook, as you can buy oil, steel etc from other cities in the same region - stuff like that <not to mention you can wreck each others cities>

I do not think it was supposed to be a full on multiplayer, I think it was indeed supposed to be a social-addon thing



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Libervurto
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 20:32
Quote: "not to mention you can wreck each others cities"

That's the main problem, there's very little benefit to it but plenty of disadvantages. It's a really badly thought out system that on one hand forces you to be online and play "socially" but on the other gives you no benefit for doing so.


ionstream
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 20:36
I think the idea that you can two people can work on the same city is completely awesome. Online activation is 100% fine, and I'd much prefer that over something that starts up with my computer and runs in the background. I'll be grabbing this at some point!

Quik
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Posted: 14th Mar 2013 21:00
Quote: "That's the main problem, there's very little benefit to it but plenty of disadvantages. It's a really badly thought out system that on one hand forces you to be online and play "socially" but on the other gives you no benefit for doing so.
"


put it on private and invite your friends

bam, problem solved



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thenerd
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Posted: 15th Mar 2013 00:10 Edited at: 15th Mar 2013 00:10
What bothers me is that despite it being a great game, there seems to be a rift between what the publisher is saying about the game and what the truth is. For example, the way the game handles units is advertised as having a continuous simulation for every unit's life that can be followed. However, this isn't true. in fact, a developer blog explains it elegantly.

I admire this coding, and I think it's a great way to simulate a city - but that's not how EA is describing it. I also feel bad for the Maxis developers because of the controversy over the always-online system. The problem here is that they are giving a reason for the online requirement that is simply false. Already people have proved that the game doesn't actually offload any game calculations to the server. This video shows a modder who was able to enable debug mode, and play for an unlimited time disconnected from the internet, as well as building outside the pointless city bounds. What frustrates me is that this game has the potential to be an amazing simulation, it already is, but it seems like they're imposing false limitations on it.


Phaelax
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Posted: 15th Mar 2013 02:45
EA is giving away a free game to everyone who bought sim city.

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
Burning Feet Man
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Posted: 19th Mar 2013 04:25
They released a selection of games today, C&C didn't make the cut.

EA & Maxis really dropped the ball on this one. I didn't want always online. I didn't want a bottom up approach. I didn't want small town sized plots.

I wanted to solve commute problems for my sims. But due to the way they "simulate" sims... well, sims don't even live in the same house day-to-day, nor work in the same job either! It's a farce, and a far cry from a "simulation".

Someone called the latest Simcity a "Fancy city painter".

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Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Mar 2013 04:36
What I find interesting is how much news coverage this story has been getting. As if this is the first single-player game to require an always-on connection.

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
Rampage
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Posted: 19th Mar 2013 05:30 Edited at: 19th Mar 2013 05:32
EDIT: It's already been said so woops. But here is the list anyway...

If you've purchased Sim City. You get a free apology game off Origin.
So rejoice! There are some good games on this list

Quote: "The eligible titles are:
Battlefield 3 (Standard Edition)
Bejeweled 3
Dead Space 3 (Standard Edition)
Mass Effect 3 (Standard Edition)
Medal of Honor Warfighter (Standard Edition)
Need For Speed Most Wanted (Standard Edition)
Plants vs. Zombies and SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition.

You'll have until March 30 to claim your free game."


Quik
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Posted: 19th Mar 2013 06:05
Quote: "As if this is the first single-player game to require an always-on connection."


this

heck, Gamespot gave it 5/10 because... launch problems, and always on connection

not because the game itself is bad



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Thraxas
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Posted: 19th Mar 2013 08:35
Deadspace 3.. That's pretty good for free.. It's the only one I don't have from the Deadspace games.

Libervurto
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Posted: 19th Mar 2013 15:30 Edited at: 19th Mar 2013 15:30
Quote: "What I find interesting is how much news coverage this story has been getting. As if this is the first single-player game to require an always-on connection."

This is SIM CITY we are talking about, so it might as well be; I can't think of a more established PC gaming franchise. This level of controversy was to be expected.

Quote: "Gamespot gave it 5/10 because... launch problems, and always on connection, not because the game itself is bad."

That's just further evidence that ratings are subjective at best and utterly meaningless at worst. However, you can't blame people for giving bad ratings to a game that doesn't work; I hear people are still having connection issue and losing their saves, so this isn't just a launch day issue.


Quik
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Posted: 19th Mar 2013 16:46
Quote: "That's just further evidence that ratings are subjective at best and utterly meaningless at worst."


I certanly do agree on that - may I also say that people find 6-7 (not 7+) to be BAD? not decent but BAD?
I find that odd...

Quote: "However, you can't blame people for giving bad ratings to a game that doesn't work; I hear people are still having connection issue and losing their saves, so this isn't just a launch day issue."


but shouldnt they atlease be giving MORE WEIGHT to the game itself, rather than the game having a rocky start - like EVERY game nowadays?



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Burning Feet Man
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 00:39
Always online with connection problems is distasteful. The fact I can't play this game on the train is bad.

But the game itself is poorly executed. It's like Maxis ignored all of the fans on all of the city building forums out there, and made their "vision", a vision which sucks.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 02:02
Quote: "This is SIM CITY we are talking about, so it might as well be; I can't think of a more established PC gaming franchise. This level of controversy was to be expected."

Command & Conquer is a pretty big franchise too. Spore had a ton of hype as well.

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
BMacZero
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 02:08
Quote: "It's like Maxis ignored all of the fans on all of the city building forums out there, and made their "vision""

I don't think that's it. I think the game development world would be a lot better place if more developers actually did more of this. This is how we get rehash after rehash of the same game.

Phaelax
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 02:11
Did you guys here that their CEO was fired over this?

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 02:19
He resigned, rather.

Text only signature /troll
Phaelax
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 02:32
I just saw that on slashdot, which linked to the earlier article I read this morning which said fired.

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 11:52
You do all know that EA is the most corrupted publisher in the world? They threaten their developers with blacklists etc if they do not do exactly as EA tells them.

This is probably why Sim City 5 is quite a bit unfinished. EA probably told them to get it out or they would cut their bonds and blacklist them, all over money. EA do not care for their developers, they just want the money to pour in.

Wouldn't surprise me if they got Maxis to release DLC for the game which was actually patch fixes with nice shiny box art.

Don't blame the developers, blame the publisher, they have all the control over the games they release.
Quik
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 17:37
Quote: "Wouldn't surprise me if they got Maxis to release DLC for the game which was actually patch fixes with nice shiny box art."


This is what Paradox does however...

But yes, I do despise EA and stay away from Origin as much as possible (their support btw, is only reachable through Origin, so when my origin acc was hacked, I had to make a NEW account to reach them... very.. nice.. the support itself was good though, surprisingly)



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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 20:43 Edited at: 20th Mar 2013 20:47
Taken from Riccitiello's internal memo to EA staff:
Quote: "Personally, I think we've never been in a better position as a company. You have made enormous progress in improving product quality. You are now generating more revenue on fewer titles by making EA's games better and bigger. You've navigated a rapidly transforming industry to create a digital business that is now approximately $1.5 / £ 0.99 billion and growing fast. The big investments you've made in creating EA's own platform are now showing solid returns. I believe EA is alone in mastering the challenges of building a platform for our games and services – a platform that will provide a more direct relationship with our consumers. You are number one in the fastest growing segment, mobile, with incredible games like The Simpsons: Tapped Out, Real Racing 3, Bejeweled, SCRABBLE and Plants v. Zombies."

I've highlighted some of the "interesting" parts. I find it odd that he consistently refers to the EA staff as "you" not "we", is this some corporate bovine-excrement ploy to make the employees feel more valued? Because it comes off as distancing himself from the company.

It's not surprising that he sees "generating more revenue on fewer titles" as a good thing, because to him actually making games is just another overhead.


DevilLiger
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 21:06
Well I still enjoyed Sim City. The even best part is that I got my free game as they promised. I chose Battlefield 3.
Quik
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 21:45 Edited at: 21st Mar 2013 06:54
How do I know if the game is "registered" and / or how do I do it?

Edit: nevermind, I got my game now^^ chose dead space 3 :3



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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 03:32
Make your own!



Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Mar 2013 03:48
BUMP because Quill18 is awesome and you guys should check him out. He does great tutorials like the one I posted.


ionstream
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Posted: 30th Mar 2013 22:42
I nabbed Simcity from Amazon for only 40 bucks.

Pros:

- Really solid and fun economy management game. I like open world stuff and this floats my boat in every way.
- There's a lot of intricate stuff to the economy like health, air pollution, crime, etc., but not so much where if you don't scour the internet for tips then your city will fail (like friggin' Anno 2070!).
- A lot of big levels with many cities in each and the cities interact with each other.
- Multiplayer!

Cons:

- Seems to take a while to update.
- Requires an internet connection at start up - but get some perspective people. It's 2013 and this is going to be more and more common. It's not a huge deal at all and deducts about half a point from the rating at best.
- Performance issues. I don't have a crazy gaming laptop, but I can run Skyrim on high. Simcity lags quite a bit at high, but is ugly at lower quality.
- Not a big deal but there are no scenarios - I really liked the Rollercoaster Tycoon games because you start in a park that has problems and slowly have to fix it up and meet objectives. Simcity just starts you off in a city with no goal other than to be a nice city. I guess achievements are supposed to substitute for this but I've never been a fan of achievements.

All in all a really fun game if you're looking for a world building/economy game. Would recommend.

Quote: "I've highlighted some of the "interesting" parts. I find it odd that he consistently refers to the EA staff as "you" not "we", is this some corporate bovine-excrement ploy to make the employees feel more valued? Because it comes off as distancing himself from the company."


In companies, its typical for management to send complimentary letters to their employees when they've done a good job (???).

Quik
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Posted: 30th Mar 2013 23:12
Quote: "- Requires an internet connection at start up - but get some perspective people. It's 2013 and this is going to be more and more common. It's not a huge deal at all and deducts about half a point from the rating at best."


just because its "getting more commmon" doesnt mean I have to like it

but I do agree that sites take this WAY TO MUCH into consideration - its apparantly, from Gamespot, more importantly that a game has a solid launch - than that the game is actually any good. Gamespot gave it a 5/10 - why? bad launch and internet connection...

thats completly absurd :/



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Phaelax
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Posted: 31st Mar 2013 07:05
Quote: "It's not a huge deal at all and deducts about half a point from the rating at best."


So when my connection has a hiccup for a second and drops and I get booted out of my game because of it, yea it's a big deal. I bought C&C last spring and was unable to play it because it required a constant connection. I lived in a barracks with crappy unstable wifi.

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 31st Mar 2013 08:35
Websites should take internet connectivity into account big time, the game not working at all due to a bad connection ruins the game entirely if you have a bad connection. That's unacceptable. Again, an offline mode could have been implemented so easily, they literally have no excuse.

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Jeku
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Posted: 31st Mar 2013 09:40
Quote: " EA probably told them to get it out or they would cut their bonds and blacklist them, all over money."


There is so much nonsense in this post, I'm surprised nobody batted an eyelash. Maxis IS EA. It's not as if they're a third-party division of EA... it's one and the same. EA uses the Maxis name for the game, but Maxis IS EA. It's not another bunch of developers in their own bubble. This is not a situation where another developer has its hands tied because the publisher wants to rush the game! Maxis was purchased by EA a long, long time ago and they are one and the same! They didn't remove the Maxis name because gamers feel loyal to the brand! Will Wright has long since left Maxis and it's not the same company it once was!


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ionstream
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Posted: 31st Mar 2013 09:45
Quote: "So when my connection has a hiccup for a second and drops and I get booted out of my game because of it, yea it's a big deal."


I've been at home with a wifi signal that cuts in and out, and it does not boot you out or pause the gameplay. A message comes up that says "lost connection to Simcity servers, reconnecting...", and then it reconnects when it can.

Quik
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Posted: 31st Mar 2013 11:50
Quote: "Websites should take internet connectivity into account big time, the game not working at all due to a bad connection ruins the game entirely if you have a bad connection. That's unacceptable. Again, an offline mode could have been implemented so easily, they literally have no excuse."


Do agree that an offline mode shouldve been available - I really do, i'm a big time defender of that - but I still dont think it should be taken into the review as a big deal

"the game itself is amazing! but it has internet connection soooo 5/10... even though the game is great i cannot justify giving it more!"

Last time I checked, I wanted a review of the game - not the DRM.



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Chris Tate
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Posted: 31st Mar 2013 14:00 Edited at: 31st Mar 2013 14:13
Boy do I miss C&C.

Quote: "Will Wright has long since left Maxis and it's not the same company it once was!"


Well this all makes perfect sense; of course the game is poor, its originator left the company.

Quote: "When Wright took his idea to the Maxis board of directors, Jeff Braun said, “The board looked at The Sims and said, ‘What is this? He wants to do an interactive doll house? The guy is out of his mind. Doll houses were for girls, and girls didn’t play video games.'" Maxis gave little support or financing for the game. "
>>

That doll house is the top selling game EA had to offer on this list of all-time game units sold; EA's best title at position 42, behind a sea of Nintendo and Activision releases. I see that their mistrust and lack of support for a designers vision back then may not have had his current reputation as a premise for full support; but it just goes to show how important creative freedom really is when creating arts, its in their company title.

Now he is gone, look at the difference.

Film directors like JJ Abrams Chris Nolan have a reputation and get creative freedom for a decade and deliver great titles over a decade; their film production companies get top rate titles over the decade. They are kept by the film production company.

Will Wright gets creative freedom for a couple years, EA gets great titles for a couple of years, then he leaves for what ever reason; EA (Maxis) fails to keep him; now what have EA got to offer against the likes of Activision-Blizzard and TakeTwo games? Fifa 13, 14 & 15? pffff

Libervurto
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Posted: 4th Apr 2013 22:56
The annoying thing is that if EA lose $2m in sales/returns because they pissed people off with the DRM, but they saved $3m from anti-piracy then that's viewed as a huge success. They really don't care about games or gamers, they'll squeeze as much money out of every franchise and every subsidiary developer until everything dries up, then they liquidate it and repeat. Consumers are too apathetic to do anything about it, or simply don't realise the long-term consequences, so the cycle continues. People invest way too much trust in these companies.

People are "hatin' on EA" because Sim City 5 could have been such a great game, yet they tarnished it with some really poor (executive) decisions. @Jeku, this is why people harp on about "Maxis vs EA" with gooey-eyed nostalgia, because they see a great game amongst all the mess and they want to believe that it would have been perfect if the developers had creative freedom, so they are really talking about "publishers vs developers". We all want to believe that Maxis are a group of creative geniuses being oppressed by the big bad EA.


ionstream
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Posted: 4th Apr 2013 23:18
I'm pretty sure people are hating on EA for the same reason they hate other big companies - because they have this 1980's action movie notion that large, rich businesses are inherently soulless and evil and may be trying to steal the Holy Grail as we speak. Real life works differently than that.

Libervurto
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Posted: 5th Apr 2013 00:14
Quote: "I'm pretty sure people are hating on EA for the same reason they hate other big companies - because they have this 1980's action movie notion that large, rich businesses are inherently soulless and evil and may be trying to steal the Holy Grail as we speak. Real life works differently than that."

In my experience, all national/global companies treat their employees like dirt and their customers like cattle. Working for/with small businesses is immeasurably less stressful and more rewarding. Personally I feel like the age of giant corporations is coming to an end, we don't really need them any more, we're already seeing the death-throws of them desperately trying to hold on to markets that are changing and moving away from traditional models (eg SOPA).


Quik
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Posted: 5th Apr 2013 00:20 Edited at: 5th Apr 2013 00:25
Quote: "I'm pretty sure people are hating on EA for the same reason they hate other big companies "


noo, not really - I dont necessarily dislike big companies at all - hell, look at blizzard, i dont even play most of their products anymore and I still think they make amazing games. Thats not the issue - the issue is that EA games does - usually - make very bad content, they often dumb down ideas, rush out stuff that COULD have been great if given a few more months, and with every Sims or sim city game they make it just keeps getting worse - or, more DLC spammy.

I dont necessarily dislike them - I just dislike the majority of the content they have under their belt, and I dislike their general policy considering release dates and DLCs.


edit: as for good companies, my absolute favorite is paradox - even though they arent that big, but then - theyre the ONLY ONES making the kind of games they do..

and I absolutly adore Blizzard - might be because i grew up with them
2K games have a lot of good games, THQ, you know. .I definitly dont look down on a company because its successfull - BUT successfull companies USUALLY - or rahter OFTEN have complete crapbum ideas about how DLCs and such content should work. I absolutly hate day 1 dlc, DLC that adds content that "should already be in the game", map packs for MP games and such things, what I do like about DLC is when its mostly optional things - like skins, and such - look at Tripwire, they do that very well.



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Apr 2013 03:14
Quote: "In my experience, all national/global companies treat their employees like dirt and their customers like cattle."


Whilst I think there are many greedy or bad large companies out there, I think saying 'all' is a bit of a stretch. I think small businesses definitely have their advantages, but there are of course, some disadvantages.

Of course, with treating customers like cattle, when you are that big, it can be difficult to cater to the needs of everybody and naturally you'll get those disappointed by the service and they won't please everyone. From a consumer perpective it can seem like shouting in a sea of people, but then that's because you're amongst several other people. So there are disadvantages to being a large business. And of course, they've got to take care of employees, which means, business risks can be a bad thing. Losses need to be picked up somewhere and it's not always the profits that can fill the space. We can see this with video games, the larger budget ones will tend to keep to working models, whilst indie studios are all trying to stand out by being 'different' or that little extra quirky.

In this respect, you can kinda respect Steve Jobs, because unlike many CEOs of large international businesses he was willing to take marketing risks, but was able to drive them forward because he believed in them. Of course, say what you like about Apple, but you gotta give them kudos for making those risks. People tend to deny how Apple has affected the technology market, but then it's generally in repulse to their other business decisions or the behaviour of fans.

I don't think it's always necessarily just trying to keep their pockets lined with gold without caring about employees or keeping customers happy.

Of course, I don't doubt there's people who'll make the most they can out of people and engage in unfair or unethical business tactics or not caring for customers or employees. I don't think they can all be swept with the same brush.

For example, I work for a large international company and I feel I am treated fairly by the company. I get along great with my boss, I get along great with the big boss and the folks at head office seem decent enough and offer good rewards for people who work hard enough.

ionstream
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Joined: 4th Jul 2004
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Posted: 6th Apr 2013 00:28
Quote: "In my experience, all national/global companies treat their employees like dirt and their customers like cattle."


I don't know which large companies you have real experience with, but you have to see how such a statement is silly. There are tens of thousands of global companies. Big companies will be obsolete the day economies of scale no longer apply. That's a long ways off.

Libervurto
18
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 8th Apr 2013 22:24
The bigger a company is the more opportunity there is for corruption and poor management. Even if a CEO has the best intentions you can only have so much control over a large organisation, and there will always be people looking to undermine their colleagues and the company to get ahead (or get away with being lazy/incompetent). If you don't know all your employees by name then your company is too big in my opinion.

It seems more sensible to have many small businesses rather than a few behemoths. I don't think they were ever "healthy" but they were definitely necessary in the past, I don't think that's the case any more. We're living in an age of hyper-communication where gold is no longer worth its weight. The world is changing fast and I don't believe the bloated whales can keep up, they will have to dig in and squash anyone who threatens them in order to survive. I think it will get really ugly as these dinosaurs try to cling on to their dying empires.

Of course I'm being quite dramatic but as technology moves on it brings the cost of everything down. There was an interesting thread about 3D printers, what a great example of this trend: now it's possible to manufacture precision aeronautical parts in your front room for a few thousand dollars. All this is taking power away from large companies, and they will no doubt try to choke innovation to hold on as long as possible.


Chris Tate
DBPro Master
16
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Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 9th Apr 2013 02:02 Edited at: 9th Apr 2013 02:30
True. They really need to think ahead; poor management is certainly more difficult to see the larger the company; but even still there are huge entertainment groups like Take-Two, ActiVision-Blizzard, Microsoft Studios, Apple Ipad/Ipod/IPhone teams and believe it or not Nintendo who are doing quite fine and will be around for decades. EA can go 5 or 6 years while loosing money, but not sure about 7... They need a decent IP fast! People are getting more tech savy and smart, it is obvious their games suck (considering their popularity). Guys like THQ (TH WHO?) will go down way before EA, but EA is slowly fading away.

I got a feeling that Sony are going to get pushed out of the handheld market; their handhelds don't make profit; Nintendo too. IPhones and Samsungs will dominate the handheld gaming market in 2 or 3 years.

Burning Feet Man
17
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Joined: 4th Jan 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 29th May 2013 14:51
In breaking news, my negotiations with Origin support were successful. I got a full refund on Simcity! ^_^ All I had to do was refer them to Australian consumer law three times, then they finally caved.

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