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Geek Culture / Cancelling an XBox Live Account

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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 19:59
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As if I couldn't dislike Microsoft any more, I'm now finding that once you do business with them they make it incredibly difficult to escape.

I want to sell my xbox on so naturally I want to remove all credit card information stored with my xbox live account. I've followed the instructions online and it simply wont let me remove my credit card. The website asks me to fill in contact details to be called by a "representative" but then this results in an error. I don't want to call the helpline because I will be charged for it. I don't want to speak to anyone at that dammed company at all! They've obfuscated this process as much as possible, in some desperate attempt to keep people trapped, and it has really pissed me off. I just want to be rid of them for good. I never want to be associated with or pay money to that company again.
[/rant]

I am considering initiating a chargeback for the last time they automatically renewed my xbox live membership (which I am unaware of accepting but was probably hidden in the setup somewhere). I hope that this will get my account suspended and block my card from being accepted by microsoft, but I am concerned as to whether this might be considered fraud?

I don't want this company to have my credit card details and I am not going to jump through their hoops to remove them. Any suggestions?


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Thraxas
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 21:21
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In Australia it's a free call to Microsoft, so I assumed that it would be free everywhere. Even if it wasn't free calling someone is easy to do and I don't believe the call would cost very much at all. Saying you don't want to talk to someone means Microsoft has made it difficult to cancel your card seems odd, when it's your choice to not make a 5 min phone call.

Not being a Microsoft defender but the fact that they will automatically renew your gold account and charge your card if you add it to your account is not hidden. It's crappy business practice to give no option for a one time billing but it's there, and one of the reasons I never added my card to my live account.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 21:57
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The helpline is free from a landline but I only have a mobile. I will probably end up having to call them but I'm really not looking forward to it: I don't want to end up shouting at someone who's being paid peanuts to cover the arse of the people who actually make these immoral decisions.

I don't understand how it is acceptable to offer the ability to add a credit card through one method but not remove it via the same method. Forcing me to call a helpline is clearly microsoft trying to talk me out of it and make the process as difficult as possible.


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Airslide
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 22:29
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When I got to Xbox.com and click on "My Account", then "Payment Options", I see my PayPal account with a link that says "Remove". Is it hanging up at some point after that, or does it not show the "Remove" link for an ordinary credit card?

I had no trouble removing one credit card and adding the PayPal awhile back, but then again, I think I added the PayPal first (so it may not have complained since there was still a billing option available).
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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Mar 2013 23:11
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@airslide - Do you have an active subscription to Xbox Live? This seems to be the excuse for holding my credit card hostage, even though I have paid for 12 months up-front and disabled the auto-renew "feature".


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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 05:39
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My subscription is active yes. I couldn't find any way to modify my auto-renew settings though (in fact, it seemed to suggest it was off, which shouldn't be the case).

I've stuck with XBL since it was first available on the original Xbox, so I can't say I've had the need to mess with the settings other than to change payment methods every once in awhile. It doesn't hugely surprise me though if they want you to go through phone support (where they can try and convince you to stay) since it was rather difficult the first time I tried to even just change the payment method (this was a number of years ago though, they've changed the interface greatly since). I seem to recall it refusing to delete the initial credit card, and so I simply added another one, and after it tried (and failed, since it was deactivated) to charge the first it deleted the entry and went to the next.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 10:34
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Next time choose Sony, it's network free.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 12:32
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I have both an XBox 360 and a PS. In terms of their online components you get what you pay for. In my opinion the PSN is subpar, and even more so when compared with Live.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 12:51
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@Thraxas

Then why we don't pay monthly fee for Steam?

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Thraxas
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 13:04
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As far as I'm aware Steam is a digital distribution platform, with built in free DRM. It's not comparable with Live or PSN.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 13:56 Edited at: 21st Mar 2013 13:57
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@Thraxas

Steam offers certain network features, services, demos and much more. Erm, are you a micro$oft employee?

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Indicium
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 14:34
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Steam makes its money from game sales. Are you trying to look like an idiot?


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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 15:10 Edited at: 21st Mar 2013 15:14
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Paid television & other entertainment services are okay, i won't say anything about it, but $60/year for multiplayer? That's insane!!! For example, BF3 multiplayer is free, only extra functions are paid. Some online games are paid, like Warcraft, but, well, they are online-only, that's a different economic model.

So if I want to play some cooperative with my friend, we both need to pay more money? It it sane? Buy a console, buy a game, buy a multiplayer.

P.S. to my previous post: downloading content for xbox is free, I forgot, sorry.

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 17:42
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It's only about £5 a month which is not that much money, plus, like Thraxas said, you get what you pay for.

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Indicium
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 18:16
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mr Handy - servers cost money to run. Before buying an xbox you should be aware that you have to pay for online services - don't like it, don't buy one. Simple.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Quik
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 18:33
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Quote: "Steam offers certain network features, services, demos and much more. Erm, are you a micro$oft employee?"


hating microsoft much? lolol

no but seriously, Steam is merely a virtual retailer really.



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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 19:22 Edited at: 21st Mar 2013 19:54
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Quote: "hating microsoft much? lolol"

pfft.

Forget about Steam. When I am buying any PC game I don't expect to pay for multiplayer, which is also run via servers. I play many cooperative games like Left4Dead, TeamFortress, Dungeo Siege 3, Resident Evil, CS Source, and so on... Plus GameSpyArcade service - it's free and running for even DEAD games like Might&Magic Legends. Now try to convince me that playing multiplayer mode for free is wrong and should be prohibited.

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Indicium
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 19:41
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Quote: "When I am buying any PC game I don't expect to pay for multiplayer, which is also run via servers"


No single PC game will ever have the same server load as the Xbox Live main servers, ever. Period.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 19:52
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Hmm... If M$ hosts it's own multiplayer servers for all xbox games... then... what about Sony? You want to say that people playing online on PS are few?

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Indicium
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 19:54
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That's not what I said, nor was it what I implied. I mean Xbox Live's login servers, chat servers, party, arcade, marketplace.

PSN sucks, basically, in comparison to Xbox Live.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 20:30
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This is not a business model issue, it's a customer service issue. I was quite happy paying 40 quid a year for Xbox Live, but now I want to leave.

Anyway, Playstation Plus is a far better deal than Xbox Live Gold. Also, removing my credit card details from PSN was extremely easy.

I guess I know who I'm going to be spending my money with if I ever buy a console again. There were some things I preferred about Xbox but it just isn't worth it.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 20:35 Edited at: 21st Mar 2013 20:37
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I am talking only about multiplayer, any other functions (non game) may be paid, that's okay. I don't know PSN closely, it may suck or not, I only admit it's free mp.

P.S. OBese87, is it Steambox?

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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 21:08
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Steambox is more of a concept (like PC) not one company, but still, I don't think I'll ever buy a console again unless they get much cheaper. Console gaming has gotten ridiculously expensive.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 21:23
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Quote: "Console gaming has gotten ridiculously expensive"

this. in russia tomb raider for PC costs 600, for xbox 2600

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Quik
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 21:25
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Quote: "I am talking only about multiplayer, any other functions (non game) may be paid, that's okay. I don't know PSN closely, it may suck or not, I only admit it's free mp.

"


any Xbox MULTIPLAYER GAME is free

but XBOX requires you to pay to play THE GAMES online



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mr Handy
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 21:28
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@Quik
nice try

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 21:41
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Quote: ""Console gaming has gotten ridiculously expensive""


Yes, but when you get bored of the game you can trade it back in for cash and buy a new one.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 21:52 Edited at: 21st Mar 2013 21:52
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mr Handy: you are the one who brought up $ony's service. My original comment was that you get what you pay for and cited that I own both consoles and use both services. Having used both services I can say that, for me at least, using Microsoft's service is far superior.

$ony do not charge for their service and as a result I feel don't make any decent upgrades to it because they don't need to, you can't complain about what's free, right?

Whether you think it's bad business practice to charge for multiplayer or not is up to you . In my opinion, and I'm sure many who have used both services will agree, one service is better and it's the one you pay for. Yes there are people playing multiplayer on $ony consoles, but from personal experience it's not as many.

I imagine all those people who had their credit card information stolen from P$N and the subsequent month or so of downtime have their own opinion on whether P$N is superior.

I also have a $team account and the service offered is not comparable with Microsoft's Live or $ony's P$N.

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Quik
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 22:25 Edited at: 21st Mar 2013 22:25
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Quote: "nice try "

... what, you said exactly yourself that any functions - thats not by the game, that requires you to pay is fine - and thats exactly what Xbox does..



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thenerd
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Posted: 21st Mar 2013 22:53
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I know what Obese is talking about with this problem, I've experienced that. I wanted to simply disable the automatic extension of Xbox Live and delete my credit card info. The system wouldn't let me do either: In order to remove my credit card it said I had to delete my account, and in order to delete my account it said I had to remove my credit card Microsoft seems to make the process purposely as hard as possible, and they're not the only company that does that. I've had similar problems with cell phone companies too. Obese, I wish you luck navigating the system.

Quote: "no but seriously, Steam is merely a virtual retailer really."


It clearly is, and it's very effective because Valve does a good job making you forget that Steam is a store. Steam does have other great features, such as the forums, messaging, and cloud saving. But at the end of the day it's a very effective store. It's also arguably the best online store for video games - Very few services share the size and ease of use that Steam has. It certainly beats Origin

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Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 00:54 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2013 00:55
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@Thraxa$
Quote: "$ony do not charge for their $ervice and a$ a result I feel don't make any decent upgrade$ to it because they don't need to, you can't complain about what'$ free, right?"

Not true, you have a right to complain becau$e $ony force you to u$e their network $ervice. i.e. We can't really complain about the default DB IDE becau$e we are allowed to make our own if we don't like the default.

It'$ alway$ in the company'$ intere$t to li$ten to complaint$, even if they offer a $ervice for free, becau$e otherwi$e people will $top u$ing the $ervice and if the company doe$n't care if that happen$ then why did they bother in the fir$t place!? I'm $ure ¥outube are very intere$ted in complaint$, for example.


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Indicium
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 00:56
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Sony won't listen to complains, they have no reason to. They don't make any money of the service. People will continue to buy PS3 regardless because of the free service.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 01:02
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Quote: "Sony won't listen to complains, they have no reason to. They don't make any money of the service. People will continue to buy PS3 regardless because of the free service."

Do you seriously think that, just because they don't charge directly for a particular service, it doesn't affect their sales? We have people in this very thread basically stating that they would rather pay for Xbox live than use PSN for free.


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Indicium
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 01:05
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That's not the overall consensus, I know a lot of people who have a PS3 simply because PSN is free.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 01:31 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2013 01:34
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I said nothing about a consensus. Free PSN is an attractive part of the package, but that's the point: it IS part of the package, regardless of being free.

I think google ad is trying to tell us something:

... what a douche.


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Chris Tate
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 02:32 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2013 02:32
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Did someone here post this comment at 2:00min


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mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 07:01 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2013 07:22
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@Thraxas
$ is for micro$oft, that's common inernet usage. Your sarcasm has failed.

Quote: "using Microsoft's service is far superior"

Again, I was talking only about paid multiplayer.

Quote: "I imagine all those people who had their credit card information stolen from P$N"

It's not related. Then I imagine all those people who's game discs were damaged (only) by xbox and they had to buy games once again.

Obviously, it would be strange if a player, forced to pay for multiplayer constantly, would state that his paid multiplayer is worse than the free one. Of course it's better.

Quote: "Did someone here post this comment at 2:00min"

That guy can't understand why you ever need to cancel credit card. Selling console! But M$ don't like reselling, they (rumour) want to make some game reselling protection in future, so they make selling protection by... fixing your credit card in system. Smartly done

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Quik
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 07:21
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Quote: "$ is for micro$oft, that's common inernet usage. Your sarcasm has failed."

Lol'd <3

Seriously mr handy - so if i understand correctly, you're complaining about having to pay for multiplayer <which you technically dont, but i'll play along>

So, why is that bad?
and why is it different to a MMORPG for example?



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mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 07:26 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2013 07:28
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Quote: "and why is it different to a MMORPG for example?"

Different buisness model and special game type. Also not all games are paid and some are optionally paid (like gold account with better gameplay features).

P.S. what stops m$ from making free basic multiplayer and paid better multiplayer with blackjack and girls?

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Indicium
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 14:48
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Because this method has worked just fine since the original Xbox back when you needed a special disk to get online with the ps2.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 17:08
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Quote: "P.S. what stops m$ from making free basic multiplayer and paid better multiplayer with blackjack and girls?"


People pay for the multiplayer, they make money.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 19:48 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2013 20:39
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Quote: " they make money"

I can't argue with that

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2013 21:57 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2013 21:58
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Quote: "Sony won't listen to complains, they have no reason to. They don't make any money of the service. People will continue to buy PS3 regardless because of the free service."


If there's enough complaints, it can sometimes encourage them to do something. I've found in the short time I've been working where I am, complaints are taken into account. Our customer service has a feedback process and we're required to log so many a week.

Naturally, the louder you shout and complain doesn't make much of a difference, heck throwing a tantrum won't help (heck, it'd more likely hinder it). But it wouldn't be unheard of for even a large business like Sony to take complaints into account. Naturally it depends on the company. Some prolly take account more than others.

I can see MS's process being really awkward, but unfortunately, I guess you'll have to go through their own procedures, even if it does mean making a phone call. It might not take much for them to do it for you.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2013 00:56
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Quote: "$ is for micro$oft, that's common inernet usage. Your sarcasm has failed."


As is $ony. Also it wasn't Sarcasm. I'm no Microsoft fanboy but I'm fed up with people acting like ONLY Microsoft have questionable business practices and are only about fleecing customers of their money. Any company with an 's' in their name can be used in a similar way once someone gets fed up with them. The Game Creator$!

Anyway I'm out... you brought in all the other platforms, haven't once explained why what you say holds any relevance, backtracked on your own opinion, and made to little to no sense.

Have a good day

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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2013 06:59
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My opinion that multiplayer game mode must be free anyway and there is no excuse for making money on that. Like EA with their DLC practice.

About $ - there is a bad practice with preinstalling windows on a new PC, what forces you to buy crappy windows basic versions without disc (or windows itself at all if you want linux), and here at my place it is hard to cut price by removing win from PC (but possible). They much worse than sony.

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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2013 08:09 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2013 08:10
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I think it's hilarious that someone would complain about having to pay $60 to play multiplayer games on the Xbox 360. I would love to know if those complainers have a PS3, and if they truly believe the networking features are similar and stability is the same. Remember when Sony was hacked and PSN was shut down in 2011 for all those months?

And Sony charges $50 a year for basic things such as cloud saves and having patches automatically download and install when the machine is turned off. Microsoft does not charge for cloud saves Also, every time I turn on my PS3 and want to play a game that came out over 3 months ago, I'm stuck downloading a 300MB patch or two. The Xbox patches are much smaller in size because the entire packaged files aren't redownloaded.

I also find it laughable that Mr Handy is comparing standard PC games. Most PC games have limited shelf lifes after which their multiplayer servers are shut off.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2013 09:51
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Quote: "Microsoft does not charge for cloud saves "

Wikipedia says that it does.

Quote: "downloading a 300MB patch or two"

When I wanted to play Witcher 2 I had to download 10 GB patch. 300MB... pfft.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2013 09:58
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Quote: "When I wanted to play Witcher 2 I had to download 10 GB patch"




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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2013 10:28
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Quote: "Wikipedia says that it does. "


Wikipedia also said James Hetfield is a table.

Whilst I don't know whether it does or doesn't (I've not used it on my 360), Wikipedia isn't always reliable, not to imply that somebody would lie about it, but people can be misinformed and just about anyone can write on Wiki.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2013 12:12
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I will abu$e thi$ newfound power.

Anyway$, I really just think you should never a$$ume any corporation will not do annoying thing$. It'$ be$t ju$t to not get angry about it and avoid it at all co$t. Brand affinity i$ a bad idea...

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