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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK Feedback Survey!

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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 13:18
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Hi,

Please help us plan the future development of AppGameKit by filling in this feedback survey;

AGK Feedback Survey

Thanks!

Rick

Financial Director
TGC Team
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Markus
Valued Member
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 13:58
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Cool
Rate me 10x
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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 14:07
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A very nice survey. Thank you

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Ian Rees
AGK Developer
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 14:53
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Quote: "A very nice survey. Thank you"


+1!

Thanks Rick - sounds like you guys mean business!

E

www.superiorinteractive.com/galaforceworlds
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 15:54
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Very nice, hopefully this will improve AppGameKit even more. I would havet liked a "no opinion" button though as there where some things that I dont know what it is or that i not using Wright now
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Zwarteziel
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 16:08
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Thanks once more: not only have you listend to the feedback in the other thread, but enabled the community to specify priorities as well. Very nice!
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CodeGit
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 16:18
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Very nice. It will be interesting to see what the community in general want. Are you going to publish the results?

------------------
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 17:12
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I answered the survey this morning. It was a pretty good one as far as surveys go.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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Arbrakan
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 18:17
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Nice idea ! +1
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gbison
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 19:10
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Excellent....

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was to convince the world he didn't exist."
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 23:05
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We will let the survey run for a few weeks and the review the feedback. We will share the results publicly too.

Rick

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
Developer
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Posted: 17th Apr 2013 23:38
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made the survey earlier today

Android 2.3 , ZTE Skate , 480x800 , 800 mhz , Samsung Galaxy Y , 240x320 , 832 mhz , Sony ericson arc 480x854 , 1 ghz
Android 4.0 , Dmtech 3g 9738B , 1024x768 , 9.7 inches , 1.2 ghz
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BatVink
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Posted: 18th Apr 2013 00:41
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Quote: " I would have liked a "no opinion" button though"


It's a nice idea, but the problem with "no opinion" is that it makes it a lot harder to analyse the results. I had the same discussion wit Rick, and he decided to add "average" as an extra option, which is not quite "no opinion", but it is a good compromise.

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XanthorXIII
AGK Gold Backer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2013 06:52
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Boom, survey filled out. Keep it up guys!!!
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xCept
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Posted: 18th Apr 2013 08:18
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Completed
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Impetus73
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Posted: 18th Apr 2013 09:22
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If you do all that you asked if we wanted you to do in that survey, AppGameKit will be UNSTOPPABLE !

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2013 12:32
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You can always skip questions you don't want to answer.

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MobileCreator
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Posted: 19th Apr 2013 17:18
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The questions seem to be in the right direction. I hope more people see built in tweener and scoreloop as a must

Cheers

----------
Paulo
http://www.mobilecreators.com
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Naphier
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Posted: 20th Apr 2013 20:18
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I really appreciate that TGC does its best to listen to us.
It makes a world of difference with this product!

Check out dFenz on Google Play, Windows, or Mac:
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Alien Menace
AGK Developer
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Posted: 21st Apr 2013 02:44 Edited at: 21st Apr 2013 02:46
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One one hand it's nice to see such a comprehensive survey but on the other hand I also think the results will skew towards the hobbyist and less so towards the serious developer. For example, people coming from a language without support for dynamic lists (DBP) will probably not see the value in them because they have never been exposed to them before.

People that never actually finish their games and bring them to market (and there are a lot of people that fall into this category) probably won't see the need for encrypted media or db server integration and so on.

I think some things like 3d model animation, swipe/pinch/zoom commands, 2d shaders, 2d drawing commands, and so on are kind of no-brainers and need to be implemented irregardless of what else on the list is done. I also agree with MobileCreator, tweening support would be very cool.

Apps published: 3
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 21st Apr 2013 07:35
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Why is Ubuntu and Linux listed as separate platforms in the first question? Ubuntu is just a linux distro, unless they've done something to it to make it really stand apart that I'm not aware of.

Anyways, I filled out the survey.

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
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Clonkex
Forum Vice President
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Posted: 21st Apr 2013 08:05
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Survey completed! I love surveys

Quote: "I hope more people see built in tweener and scoreloop as a must"


I stuck them at 1 (least important) because I don't like Scoreloop and a tweener can be created in AppGameKit code (and indeed has been) and doesn't need to be built in. Sorry

Quote: "For example, people coming from a language without support for dynamic lists (DBP) will probably not see the value in them because they have never been exposed to them before."


Me, for example. I think I put dynamic lists at 3 or 4. Can't remember.

Quote: "I also think the results will skew towards the hobbyist"


Only if the community is primarily made up of hobbyists. If it is, then the "hobbyist" commands should be implemented first because that's the majority of AppGameKit users. Serious developers are likely a minority. Now I'm not saying AppGameKit shouldn't support serious developers; ha, on the contrary, I think it should, but the survey was created to find out what the bulk of people wanted, and that's what it will do. I'm fairly certain all of the things listed in the survey will be completed one day, but what the majority wants will be completed first.

Was there a point to that paragraph? Probably not. I tend to ramble on with no goal.

Anyways....

Clonkex



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Phaelax
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Posted: 21st Apr 2013 09:21
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I think I had dynamic lists somewhat high as well. But unless you guys are referring to something completely different, DBP has dynamic lists. I grow and shrink arrays all the time.

"You're all wrong. You're all idiots." ~Fluffy Rabbit
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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 21st Apr 2013 09:37
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Dynamic lists are in DBP. I'm the one who asked for it in the feedback thread, just like in DBP. I used them a lot in DBP and I really miss them.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 21st Apr 2013 09:43
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Oh yeah, I forgot DBPro had lists. I always use its dynamic array sys- wait, the dynamic array system IS the dynamic list system. It's just not called that. Hmmf...

Clonkex



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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 21st Apr 2013 10:41
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TGC refer to them as lists when they are one dimensional arrays. Not sure if they are going to use arrays again or split them up. I think they call them lists so people instantly understand what they are talking about.

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Timshark
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Posted: 3rd May 2013 01:53
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I just wanted to bump this one because you said you would post the result in a few weeks.

I guess you want more people to do the survey. So here is a bump.
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swissolo
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Posted: 6th May 2013 01:52
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Yes I'm interested in the results aswell.

While I'm posting...
Quote: "I always use its dynamic array sys- wait, the dynamic array system IS the dynamic list system"

I'm rather confused as to why we can't simply write the code on our own with arrays I always use dynamic arrays in AGK. What exactly is the difference? I'm really looking for AGK's UDTs to support nesting so it can mimic OOP. Hence linked lists, trees, etc. made easy

swis
Joined: Tue Dec 16th 2008
Interstellar
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 6th May 2013 11:40
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It should be perfectly easy to construct linked lists or trees with the current AppGameKit Basic based on an array. You don't need pointers for forward and backward links, because you can use the array index of the links. That's how we did it for years before we had OOP, and it's fast and efficient.

You don't want to be extending the array by one every time you add a node, so it's better to allocate in blocks. Delphi's list type and its derivative default to 16 element blocks - but this is easily changed like this: MyList.capacity := 2048; In this case, when I add element 2049 a new block of 2048 elements is created.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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swissolo
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Posted: 6th May 2013 18:38 Edited at: 6th May 2013 18:38
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Quote: "It should be perfectly easy to construct linked lists or trees with the current AppGameKit Basic based on an array. You don't need pointers for forward and backward links, because you can use the array index of the links. That's how we did it for years before we had OOP, and it's fast and efficient."

It is certainly possible but would be a nightmare to program what one of my projects demanded. I needed a tree with varying numbers of children. If UDTs were expanded entirely I could do this,

or something to that effect. Then I could use recursive functions to walk through it. With an array... it would be possible but

Quote: "You don't want to be extending the array by one every time you add a node"

This can be done with arrays as well... not sure what you're getting at, but it's very true

swis
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 6th May 2013 19:56
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All data and programs in memory or on a hard disk are an array - an array of bits organised in a certain way. Consequently, as long as you have arrays and some fundamental data types you can construct just about anything, including your tree.

In fact, programs are effectively a tree. This is used extensively in evolutionary programming - Genetic Programming.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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Impetus73
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Posted: 6th May 2013 20:52
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The survey ends May 14th, so no point in asking for results now

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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swissolo
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Posted: 6th May 2013 20:56
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Quote: "All data and programs in memory or on a hard disk are an array - an array of bits organised in a certain way. Consequently, as long as you have arrays and some fundamental data types you can construct just about anything, including your tree."

True, but on the user end I deem it unreasonable. It's unlikely that extensive of production wouldn't be worthwhile in AGK. The efficiency simply isn't there. It is surely possible but couldn't possibly match up to a higher level alternative built into AGK.

swis
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Marl
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Posted: 7th May 2013 01:16
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Quote: "Then I could use recursive functions to walk through it. With an array... it would be possible but "

Oddly enough for me (from a procedural programming upbringing) it would probably easier with arrays

Rather than dreaming about how much better life would be if UDTs did this or that, I came up with alternatives.

How about strings?

Then you do stuff like;

I can't see why that wouldn't work
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 7th May 2013 01:34
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I don't think it would be wise for TGC at this stage to embark on a major rewrite of the virtual machine that is AppGameKit Basic to make it OOP. Rather more important is getting all the OpenGL/DirectX wrapper functions working perfectly.

Lists, trees and so on are not fundamental language elements in C++ or Object Pascal (though they are in Lisp). They are constructed using the fundamentals and provided as part of an extended language set by the system programmers.

Many of us use C++ or Pascal or Java etc every day to do powerful stuff. Why? Because we can employ the assistance of many highly-skilled programmers who have programmed and debugged it already. We can bring these languages to AppGameKit very easily for cross-platform display purposes.

So if you want OOP, use a proper OOP language. They mostly don't run on a byte-code virtual machine, you have very powerful debugging facilities, and you are writing (eventually) optimised native code. For professionals, there is no choice.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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swissolo
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Posted: 7th May 2013 01:59
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Quote: "I don't think it would be wise for TGC at this stage to embark on a major rewrite of the virtual machine that is AppGameKit Basic to make it OOP."

This isn't what I'm proposing at all I simply want UDT storage to be complete and used that as an example.

@Marl
I see what you did there That's clever haha

swis
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 13th May 2013 18:40
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Hi,

Some great feedback in this survey. We'll be closing it down in the morning, so it's last chance saloon if you have still not replied.

Rick

Financial Director
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Clonkex
Forum Vice President
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Posted: 21st May 2013 05:01
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Ok, so where are our results? Don't cheat us out of them now


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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 21st May 2013 16:46
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You must have missed seeing the new stickied thread with the link to the survey results.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 21st May 2013 16:50
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No, he posted that just before I posted the results!

Rick

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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 21st May 2013 17:06
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That is actually what I meant. I did look at the time tags. I just wasn't clear in my comment. Sorry.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 21st May 2013 18:06
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Do the survey results translate into a roadmap of some kind?

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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AgentSam
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Posted: 21st May 2013 19:37 Edited at: 21st May 2013 19:39
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Quote: "Do the survey results translate into a roadmap of some kind?"


In the very least they should help with task prioritization.
But, there really weren't any big surprices in the results.

I doubt Paul will make any large changes to his daily
work based on these. If anything, this seemed like
the sort of product survey that RickV was interested
in seeing without having to read through everything
on the forum.

Most of us who read everything on the forums, and
keep tabs on things, have been able to see the trouble
spots and high-priority requests for a long long time,
even without this questionnaire.

Cheers,
AgentSam
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