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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Game distribution

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Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 03:16
Hello, everybody.

I've been a part of this community for a while, now. Something that we have all been needing is a distribution channel for our games. I am working to satisfy that need.

Already, I have a small website which nicely presents a selection of games. I haven't purchased the fancy legit web hosting because I can't afford it right now. If anybody is currently selling their games somehow, just give me a link to where people can purchase them and I will add them to the site. If enough games get on the store, it will generate interest, more people will buy my games, I will be able to afford a better website, then more people will buy my games (and your games too, of course).

I can make the promotional materials myself, but if you want to make them, I need for each game:

A 924x393 banner which can be cropped to 700x393.
A video or screenshot.
A description.
A suggested age rating.

Note to moderators: This is not a team request, it's just a thread to promote interest for this sort of game distribution.
easter bunny
12
Years of Service
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Joined: 20th Nov 2012
Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 04:51
What about free games and mobile platforms (eg. Android)?
also, you can get webhosting fairly cheap, HostGator apparently hosts at $3.96 a month (that's 20% off though, it goes back to full price after the first month). but that's for a minimum 3 year contract as well. $7.16 monthly contract. (inc. 20% off as well)

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 05:06
Free games? No, I am trying to keep it all commercial right now. I mean, maybe a couple free games if they don't overshadow the commercial ones, but the aim is to make a mainly commercial game distribution site. Mobile apps are fine, as long as they're commercial and I can link to them.

I notice that you don't list any games on your website. That's really a shame. Don't be a boring business person! It also looks like you aren't selling any apps. They look to be all free.

----

Hosting isn't cheap. Another $10 a month plus whatever it costs for a domain name.
Blobby 101
18
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Joined: 17th Jun 2006
Location: England, UK
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 11:51
No offense Fluffy, honestly, but there are already plenty of distribution services like this out there. What sets yours apart? What's so unique about yours over say Desura?

I really hope this goes well for you, but you're gonna need to put a lot of work into creating something good and different if you actually want it to go anywhere.

mr Handy
17
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Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 12:19
Quote: "What sets yours apart?"

Games that probably shall not pass greenlight?

«Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful»
«If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases in the grave»
Blobby 101
18
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Joined: 17th Jun 2006
Location: England, UK
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 13:23
Quote: "games that probably shall not pass greenlight? "

Is that really a selling point? And either way, there are other services than steam out there (like desura as I mentioned earlier).

It just takes a lot of work on designing and promoting to get anywhere with something like this, as long as you're prepared to put that work in fluffy, good luck.

TheComet
17
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Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 14:41
Quote: "Is that really a selling point?"

Looks like someone's sarcasm detectors didn't boot up properly this morning.

TheComet


Level 91 Forumer - 9600 health, 666'666 keystroke power (*2 coffee)
Abilities: sophisticated troll, rage
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 18:11
Quote: "It just takes a lot of work on designing and promoting to get anywhere with something like this, as long as you're prepared to put that work in fluffy, good luck."


A big middle finger, with lots of love from me to you.

----

You guys use Steam, Desura, Origin, etc. Those game distribution services revolve around a client that one has to download and install, an account balance that one has to maintain, and digital rights management. What I am working towards is something more like GOG, where people can just go to the website and buy a game. Where I'm at right now is basically just a promotional site that links to e-commerce sites and provides a search feature and nice big shiny graphics. I am not charging anything for the use of this service, because the way I see it, your games help to promote my games.
Indicium
16
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Joined: 26th May 2008
Location:
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 19:19
The website needs some work.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Blobby 101
18
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Joined: 17th Jun 2006
Location: England, UK
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 19:32 Edited at: 27th Apr 2013 19:33
Quote: "A big middle finger, with lots of love from me to you."
Well then screw you, mate. I'm sorry, there are very few people here that I have any kind of problem with but that was just plain uncalled for. I was giving you some advice, then I wished you good luck. What the hell part of that warranted a response like that?

Quik
16
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Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 19:51
Quote: "You guys use Steam, Desura, Origin, etc"


I use Steam, because i have 300 games on it - and like to have it on one library - s othe chances of me changing - is veeery slim. I use origin because well, origin specific games.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 20:45
Quote: "The website needs some work."


Could you be more specific?

Quote: "I use Steam, because i have 300 games on it - and like to have it on one library - s othe chances of me changing - is veeery slim. I use origin because well, origin specific games."


As a gamer, you use the store that sells all of your favorite games. As a developer, you use whatever store is available to you. I think that as my game distribution site as well as others such as GOG get more popular, people will see that they don't need to bother with clients and DRM.

If you want your games listed on a game store, I'm sorry but this is probably your only option.

ShellfishGames
12
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Location:
Posted: 27th Apr 2013 21:55 Edited at: 27th Apr 2013 22:05
I don't really see how insulting Blobby had the slightest justification, but anyway - regarding the website, you might want to have a look at something like Bootstrap, since a little CSS would probably benefit the site's overall look. Right now the first impression I get when visiting the site is "unprofessional". Not that any of the websites I've worked on so far looked any better, but considering that you want to sell products, you should certainly avoid that impression on the user-side.

Edit: And regarding the games that can be purchased on your website... let's take Invasion of the Squares and Frogs. I like the title. But there doesn't seem to be any helpful information on the gameplay and the screenshot looks a little underwhelming. There is not even a health bar, but a DBPro-Text-Output instead. A simple health bar requires about two minutes of work. And from a player's perspective, I wouldn't pay a single cent for a game when seemingly the developer didn't want to make such little effort to improve the game's quality. Well, I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. But if you want this project to become a success, you will have to work on a few things...

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 00:03
@ShellfishGames-

I don't need any more criticism, and you gave quite a bit of it.

Quote: "you might want to have a look at something like Bootstrap, since a little CSS would probably benefit the site's overall look. Right now the first impression I get when visiting the site is "unprofessional"."


Ehh, I like the elegant simplicity of my site. Quite a bit of CSS is used, actually. I think what you're looking for is rounded edges and shiny chrome. I specifically designed my site to function well on computers without JavaScript or the newest CSS3. For instance, I could have used the max-width and min-width properties, but instead I opted for a fixed width of 700 pixels and a little bit of JavaScript that expands the width if possible. You haven't given any specific criticism of the presentation.

Quote: "There is not even a health bar, but a DBPro-Text-Output instead. A simple health bar requires about two minutes of work. And from a player's perspective, I wouldn't pay a single cent for a game when seemingly the developer didn't want to make such little effort to improve the game's quality."


I didn't make IOTSAF in DBPro, but I get what you mean with the text. Look, maybe the game doesn't look too fancy, but it plays even worse. A health bar isn't going to fix the lazy controls or repetitive gameplay. There isn't a whole lot to say about the game with any honesty that would make it more marketable.

The original plan for the game was something like Over Horizon or Zero Wing, but when I actually got to making it, things didn't turn out that way. Slide the mouse all around and hope to hit something. There are two levels which repeat into infinity.

Notice how I didn't add a video for either Invasion or SWAT. They are going to end up in a discount bundle pretty soon with Fish Catcher and 2 other games.

My point is that quality shouldn't matter. Everybody is welcome to sell their games through my "store".

Blobby 101
18
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Joined: 17th Jun 2006
Location: England, UK
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 00:21
You seem to be mistaking advice for criticism. If you only want people to praise everything you do, no matter what it is then don't post it. It is a seriously bad attitude you have there. If someone says something slightly negative about something you've done or made here, generally it is with the intention of helping you improve it. If you don't want to improve, fine - but don't bother posting.

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 00:31
I posted more to get people to list their games on my website, not to get criticism/advice. I am happy with how my website is and I want it to catch on. That can only happen if people participate.

Libervurto
18
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 00:33 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 00:42
Quote: "No offense Fluffy, honestly, but there are already plenty of distribution services like this out there. What sets yours apart? What's so unique about yours over say Desura?"

That's a very premature question. He has the site up, that's the important thing. Developing it further and discovering what is needed/wanted will bring out it's uniqueness.

Quote: "A big middle finger, with lots of love from me to you."

You're seriously going to have to work on your PR skills if you want to attract positive attention, and developers, to your site.

Quote: "What about free games and mobile platforms (eg. Android)?"

Personally I think this would be great for you Fluff. Free games would bring people in, and once they're in you can show them other games; you could even make ad revenue if that's something you're interested in. Just because you would like to make money doing this doesn't mean freebies are a bad idea, quite the opposite. Your primary goal is not to extract money from people but to keep them coming back to check what new games or deals you have. Free games are a great lure for that.

If you want to have a rankings list and are worried about free games hogging the spotlight you could always restrict it to purchased games or give free games their own list.

My Advice:-

* The name "Next-Gen Game Store" is very bad. Going by what you have said, and the games currently on there, the store is not catering to state-of-the-art games but low-budget indies.

* You need to take the "about" and "legal" pages more seriously, people will only read these when they need explicit clarification, especially if they are concerned about something, so it is not the place for jokey language and vagueness. Check out Gamers Gate, Steam, Desura, GOG, and/or other download sites and see what their T&C's say. I say check out more than one because that should make it easier to sift through and determine what parts apply to you, then you can just copy the bits that you want to use. Since you aren't actually selling through the site a lot of it wont apply to you, but you also need to make clear to people using your site that when they buy something does not apply to you.

* You need to explain why you require contact details and address to make a purchase, and what you will and wont do with those details.

* You need to explain what "estimated sales" means, and why you cannot track sales to completion. (Are you really unable to do this? I don't know how it works.)

* The layout is disjointed and pretty ugly at the moment. Again, take pointers from Desura, Steam and the rest.

Quote: "I posted more to get people to list their games on my website, not to get criticism/advice. I am happy with how my website is and I want it to catch on. That can only happen if people participate."

Isn't it clear to you that there's a lot of criticism/advice because they are unwilling to participate with the site in its current form? Honestly Fluff, it is not up to par at the moment. You don't have to make everything rounded boxes and gradients (I hate that stuff too) but it has to be better designed than it is now.

You really have to learn how to take criticism, this aggressive defensive attitude is a bad habit of yours and is not helping you. Acting like this means you are relying purely on yourself to get it right, and I can already tell you that hasn't happened. Why block out ideas and inspiration instead of using them to your advantage? We are trying to help you.


Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 01:11
Quote: "You're seriously going to have to work on your PR skills if you want to attract positive attention, and developers, to your site."


Personally, I am not turned off by bad "PR". I'm not some political asswipe like the many who lurk around the Internet, California, and places of business.

Consider my business plan "Internet bartering". It's not really stores, services, and ads that make the money, it's people who for whatever reason are willing to part with their money. As the old saying goes, a fool and his money are easily parted.

Quote: "Personally I think this would be great for you Fluff. Free games would bring people in, and once they're in you can show them other games; you could even make ad revenue if that's something you're interested in. Just because you would like to make money doing this doesn't mean freebies are a bad idea, quite the opposite. Your primary goal is not to extract money from people but to keep them coming back to check what new games or deals you have. Free games are a great lure for that."


That's a great idea, except what I am really worried about is the fact that most indie games are free. I mean, there are thousands, if not millions of games which I could download. Not all of them are finished or polished, but who am I to judge quality? The thing about commercial games is that someone actually benefits from somebody buying it. Nobody benefits from free games. Free games are poorly made, give you viruses, last 4 minutes, and the developers who spent months making them don't even get anything in return. A game which is made to be a commercial product is automatically a good game in my book. When I see a free game, the first thing I wonder is why the developer is not charging money for it.

Quote: "If you want to have a rankings list and are worried about free games hogging the spotlight you could always restrict it to purchased games or give free games their own list."


Some free games could be mixed in with the rest, but I'm not going to put them in a "top selling" list for obvious reasons. As long as the number of free games is less than the number of paid games, I'm happy.

Quote: "The name "Next-Gen Game Store" is very bad. Going by what you have said, and the games currently on there, the store is not catering to state-of-the-art games but low-budget indies."


Would you rather I called it "Low-Budget Game Store"? Ehh, I don't like what you're implying.

Quote: "You need to take the "about" and "legal" pages more seriously, people will only read these when they need explicit clarification, especially if they are concerned about something, so it is not the place for jokey language and vagueness."


The customer isn't always right. Since all the site is right now is a website, the legal stuff isn't really necessary. If they want to find out about the order process and all that, they can check with the payment gateway.

Quote: "You need to explain why you require contact details and address to make a purchase, and what you will and wont do with those details."


I don't owe anybody an explanation. I'm not going to get sued and then have a bunch of incriminating legal text. My payment gateway requires those fields. Once I've made enough sales, I can request that they remove the phone number field, but for whatever reason the address field has to stay. I think it has something to do with billing the credit card. By the way, I do get sent all of the information except for the credit card number.

Quote: "You need to explain what "estimated sales" means, and why you cannot track sales to completion. (Are you really unable to do this? I don't know how it works.)"


In order for the site to automatically get the sales numbers, it would have to interface directly with each and every payment gateway. So, I "estimate" by counting up the sales myself. I could be wrong, of course, but the sales figures are just to give a rough idea. After a certain point, I'll round and use numbers like 500+, etc.

Quote: "The layout is disjointed and pretty ugly at the moment. Again, take pointers from Desura, Steam and the rest."


I disagree.

Insert Name Here
18
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Joined: 20th Mar 2007
Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 01:42
Quote: "Personally, I am not turned off by bad "PR". I'm not some political asswipe like the many who lurk around the Internet, California, and places of business."

Excellent! In that case I will not feel guilty for ripping into you.

Good god the website is shocking. I'd say it looks like something a middle-schooler would design, but in my experience I'm always pleasantly surprised at middle-school design knowledge.
'Next-gen' is a totally meaningless, cheap, rubbish name. What is it supposed to mean? None of your games could ever be described as 'Next-gen', and it's completely forgettable. The grey colour scheme looks boring as sin. The legal page is useless and unnecessary as it doesn't tell you anything. The about page actually makes it sound like you're running a scam ('Oooh, don't worry, everything's fine, I won't touch your credit card numbers!' etc). The fonts, colours, shapes, format are all terrible. It doesn't fit on one page, even on my enormous monitor, and yet there's barely any information on the screen at any one time.

You won't be making anyone's dreams come true with this shoddy piece of work.

Now perhaps if you grow up, listen a bit to the more experienced members of the forum (and I absolutely don't count myself in this), but Blobby, Obese, JoJo are all dead smart and know what they're talking about. Ignoring all the advice around you makes you look like an petulant child.

Indicium
16
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 01:58
Quote: "The customer isn't always right."

Incorrect, try again.

Quote: "In order for the site to automatically get the sales numbers, it would have to interface directly with each and every payment gateway."

Welcome to the world of programming, it's an evil bitch.

Quote: "I disagree."

You shouldn't.

Quote: "Free games are poorly made, give you viruses, last 4 minutes, and the developers who spent months making them don't even get anything in return. "

Sorry? Angry Birds, Temple Run and Draw Something are just the first free games that come to mind and none of them are poorly made - are there even viruses for Android? A lot of people have spent a lot more than four minutes playing them, and they get revenue for advertisements and microtransactions.

Quote: "Personally, I am not turned off by bad "PR"."

You're aware that PR stands for Public Relations? If everybody hates you, why would they choose to use your service?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 02:10
I think I have been very patient with you people, and I am not going to stop being patient. No matter how much you insult me, bash me, and make fun of me, my site is always open to your games. By not giving people a central place to buy independently developed games, you are depriving customers of artistic material that they would not normally find in the commercial market.

Quote: "Sorry? Angry Birds, Temple Run and Draw Something are just the first free games that come to mind and none of them are poorly made - are there even viruses for Android? A lot of people have spent a lot more than four minutes playing them, and they get revenue for advertisements and microtransactions."


Android apps are freaking hard to make. Don't compare them against normal games. Anyways, anything on Google Play might as well be commercial, so those don't really count. When I say "free game", I mean something like John, by Soharix. You can plainly see that it was just made because the guy was bored.

The Zoq2
15
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Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 02:16
Quote: "are there even viruses for Android"


As far as I know, there are lots nowdays. I guess that's the disadvantage of not having an aproval process and allowing users to install apps from third party sources. I had a virus that created spamy notifications once every hour
Quik
16
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Location: Equestria!
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 03:23
Quote: "I posted more to get people to list their games on my website"



Aaand about here I feel this is not even worth my time anymore.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 03:28
Quote: "Aaand about here I feel this is not even worth my time anymore."


Why? You don't want to sell copies of your games?

Quik
16
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Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 03:44
Well I would - but not through one not willing to take critique, and simply smacking down those who does not like his ideas at all.

Well, I realise, I will most likely not sell a lot of games then..



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 03:46
Quik, you are failing to make my dreams come true.

Blobby 101
18
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Joined: 17th Jun 2006
Location: England, UK
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 03:49 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 03:50
OK, put it another way. If I go to you with Grim and have you sell it on your site, Who buys it? You've got to think about what would make your potential customers go to your site to buy games.

I'm not bashing you or insulting you, I'm trying to help you. If you actually listened to what people are trying to tell you you might realise that.

Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
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Posted: 28th Apr 2013 04:04 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 04:07
Fluffy, in order to improve anything, it must be criticized. So, if you're not willing to take criticism, how will you get anywhere? If a few people don't like what you have made and are telling you that, chances are most people won't like what you have made, and you really won't go far! Not to mention, they are trying to HELP you by advising you on what to do. So this notion you have that criticism is bad is a terrible notion, and it won't get you far.

In fact, I'll describe a very logical scenario that demonstrates the importance of criticism. Say you have a company, and this company is doing lots of stuff people don't like. They aren't doing well as a result. However, people begin to criticize them, and they improve according to the criticism they get. As this happens, they receive less criticism specifically because they are fixing the very things for which they are being criticized. Consequently, they become far more popular and do much better business.

http://www.google.com/
TheComet
17
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Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 04:07 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 04:08
Quote: "Android apps are freaking hard to make. Don't compare them against normal games."


You have NO idea what the hell you're talking about, do you? Android apps are quite easy to make, once you get the hang of it, and they are just as normal as "normal" games.

As to your website... It's a good idea, but your attitude is so disgusting that I, and probably many others, will never want to collaborate.

TheComet


Level 91 Forumer - 9600 health, 666'666 keystroke power (*2 coffee)
Abilities: sophisticated troll, rage
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
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Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 04:09
Quote: "your attitude is so disgusting that I, and probably many others, will never want to collaborate."
I could not agree more.

Take THAT as criticism, improve your attitude, and maybe people will be more willing to collaborate with you. Make sense?

http://www.google.com/
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 04:14 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 04:17
To be honest, you're not selling the service very well. You want people to put their games on there so you've got games on your service, but you respond extremely badly to advice, feedback and criticism. This is definitely not a good sign and easily sets off alarm bells for any would-be user. Why? Because anybody who would use or uses the services may wish to offer their input to improve the general service and make it more attractive. Or any would be collaborator may wish to have input or simply want the service provider to provide a good service.

You might not be a PR guy, but if you want to sell a service or sell a product you'll need some level of PR, without it, people might not have a confidence in the service. I would certainly be put off.

I know that this was technically feedback and you don't want it, but you clearly want your website to get some traffic, people to look at your games and people to use the service you're offering. I wouldn't say it's a bad idea, it could be something useful for smaller developers and possibly hobbyists if it attract the traffic.

Of course, it's up to you what you do, but I wouldn't flame those who are only trying to help.

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 04:38
@Blobby-

I would love to put Grim on the site. Is it close to completion?

Blobby 101
18
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Location: England, UK
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 04:45
That wasn't my question. Are you actually just trolling? Because it really seems like you are. :/

Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 04:50
Well, you actually named a game that you would like to sell. You could try putting it on Steam, but it would be shot down. You could try putting it on Gameolith, but people wouldn't be able to download it thanks to website glitches. You could try putting it on Indievania, but you'd have to use PayPal. You could try getting MrValentine to sell it, but he'd just tell you to wait another year. You could try selling it through your own website, but nobody would buy it.

Libervurto
18
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Location: On Toast
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 05:01
Quote: "I would love to put Grim on the site. Is it close to completion?"

I don't think blobby is interested in that, not at the moment anyway. You don't seem to understand the tone of people's comments at all. Is this something that is a problem for you? Is this why you get aggressive when people are trying to help?


Zotoaster
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Location: Scotland
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 05:37 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 05:43
Fluffy, I too, like you, want to make as much money as possible through my games. So, suppose I was to sell one of my games through your site. Why would I choose to do that? I could make a lot more money if you improved the look of your site, your marketing skills, and business model, and thus I'd be more inclined to collaborate.

But if you're only getting bad feedback, you can pretty much guarantee it won't be a successful service, so, spoiler alert, I'm not so interested in using your service. Clearly, others aren't either. So I believe it's wise to listen to feedback. I can understand that ambition and an entrepreneurial spirit makes you feel invincible and capable of overcoming every obstacle in your path, but bad feedback isn't an obstacle, it's a tool, and anyone remarkable learns to utilise it to it's full potential. Those who fight back tend to end up tired, ostracised and regretful.

We only want to see others succeed here. Nobody is bashing your website for fun, we merely want to spread our collective wealth of knowledge. It's a perfect system where knowledge can be stored in the hive-mind and everyone has access to it, if you're willing to open your ears. I don't know why you insist on not relishing in it, because you'll be a lot better off if you do.

It's like everyone's trying to offer you a cookie for the sake of sharing, and you're tossing it on the ground and waltzing off on your high horse.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 05:43 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 07:07
OBese, either you're missing the point of this thread or you are deliberately trying to offend me. I guess that goes for all of you.

Look, if anybody wants their games distributed, they know what to do now. I hope that nobody else has to go through the same MOD EDIT I went through just to unload their wаres.

Since this thread appears to be going nowhere and is likely to get locked, I think I'll address some of the comments now.

Quote: "Welcome to the world of programming, it's an evil bіtсh"

You are asking me to move mountains. Server to server communication slows page load times and is hard to code. I'm on a free web host and I don't want to push it.

Quote: "You have NO idea what the hell you're talking about, do you? Android apps are quite easy to make, once you get the hang of it, and they are just as normal as "normal" games."

Once I get the hang of it, huh? I have had nothing but problems with the the overly complicated Eclipse interface, Java, etc. Plus, there's no help forum where I can just ask for the codes. Learning to program using that system is like taking a class, and that's far too much effort. To make a game for Windows, I don't even have to program if I don't want to.

Quote: "In fact, I'll describe a very logical scenario that demonstrates the importance of criticism. Say you have a company, and this company is doing lots of stuff people don't like. They aren't doing well as a result. However, people begin to criticize them, and they improve according to the criticism they get. As this happens, they receive less criticism specifically because they are fixing the very things for which they are being criticized. Consequently, they become far more popular and do much better business."

That's pretty condescending. I'm not running a business here, I'm running a website. There's a big difference. And if I were running a business, I certainly wouldn't be taking your advice.

Quote: "Games that probably shall not pass greenlight?"

Yes, that is a selling point, perhaps more for developers than for customers.

Quote: "Quote: "your attitude is so disgusting that I, and probably many others, will never want to collaborate."
I could not agree more.

Take THAT as criticism, improve your attitude, and maybe people will be more willing to collaborate with you. Make sense?"

I'm not even going to comment.

Quote: "I wouldn't flame those who are only trying to help."

You trolls have been flаming my thread all day. I will not allow criticism. Action should be taken against those who are trying to undermine the commercial viability of low budget games.

Quote: "Nobody is bashing your website for fun, we merely want to spread our collective wealth of knowledge. It's a perfect system where knowledge can be stored in the hive-mind and everyone has access to it, if you're willing to open your ears. I don't know why you insist on not relishing in it, because you'll be a lot better off if you do."

I'm going to sell my games the way I want them to be sold, and I'm going to sell them now. You are welcome to join me.

You have all taken up so much of my time with this thread, time I could have spent publishing more games on my site.

Zotoaster
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 05:46
Quote: "I'm going to sell my games the way I want them to be sold, and I'm going to sell them now. You are welcome to join me."




"Either you're with me, or you're my enemy"
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 05:53
What are you trying to do, troll my site to death?

Zotoaster
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 06:01 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 06:01
Quote: "What are you trying to do, troll my site to death?"


No. It's all actually very simple but you are impenetrable.

We are merely giving advice. In the end of the day, nobody here is affected if your site fails, apart from you. You are the most invested in this site out of anybody here, so you'd think you're the one who should be thinking about improving it, but you seem to not care. Yet you come here and try to market it to us. And then insulting those who try to help you along your way. You mess around with people like that who, originally, just wanted to help, you're going to get a bad reaction. If you were a bit more savvy, you'd realise this in advance, and you'd realise your website should be improved if anyone here is to bother with it.

But now you've escalated to the level of a common troll, which doesn't bare well for anybody here, other than those who come for the entertainment before the thread is locked. More experienced forumers have seen these types of users come and go over the years, and I wouldn't be surprised if you're one of them. Adapt or die, it's nature.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 06:17
I know there's some retarded epileptic kid in a wheelchair who has a game he wants to sell. I want to sell it for him. I don't care how much it sucks, I will sell it and people will buy it.

Zotoaster
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 06:23
If your plan is to deliberately sell crap and avoid any attempts to improve quality, then you're not going to get any collaborators here. From my understanding, people like quality and they like success, so they avoid sites likes yours.


Quote: "I know there's some retarded epileptic kid in a wheelchair who has a game he wants to sell."


You are perhaps the worst "business-man" I've ever seen.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
KeithC
Senior Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 07:11
You need to work on your people skills, if you want to work with anyone. Who's going to want you to represent them, if you treat them in this manner? What's to say that you don't treat potential customers the same? You have a very obvious problems with criticism, that is plain to see.

Oh; and you're now on post moderation for using profanity.

-Keith

Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 07:27 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 07:30
Quote: "That's pretty condescending. I'm not running a business here, I'm running a website. There's a big difference. And if I were running a business, I certainly wouldn't be taking your advice."
Condescending??? I'm entertained!

Just trying to help you bro, I think we all are.

But the amount we want to help is quickly vanishing. Shape up your attitude.

Then again, I guess you really didn't want any help in the first place, so this works great.

http://www.google.com/
Dark Frager
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Mar 2010
Location: The Void.
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 10:37
Quote: "I will not allow criticism"


You're acting like your website and service is absolutely perfect, which it is not. We're giving you tips on how to improve, but of course you carry on with your superiority complex of how you know the best because it's your website. Chances are that only a small amount of people outside the forum will know about this website, therefore you're customer base is pretty low from the start. Maybe if you were nice then some of the forum members would want to help you, but you're just being a complete ass to everyone, and therefore lost another chunk of your potential customers from this forum.

Grow up, seriously.

Level 100 Forumer - 456,000 Health, 264,543 Keystroke Power.
Special Abilities: Flame Resistance, Troll Shield.
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 11:47 Edited at: 28th Apr 2013 11:57
Quote: "You trolls have been flаming my thread all day. I will not allow criticism. Action should be taken against those who are trying to undermine the commercial viability of low budget games.
"


In which case you're totally missing the point. Nobody's trying undermine anything and nobdy's trolling. Heck, the people you say are trying to undermine your site have wished you good luck and said it's even a good idea. If you choose to believe that these people are trolling, then perhaps they shouldn't bother trying to help. Perhaps they should leave it as is and not in turn support your site. I can see everybody here has been put off, which is a shame because in the right hands it could be a useful service. Generally business doesn't survive with the attitude you've got, at least as far as I am aware.

I work in customer support for quite a large company and they're highly successful worldwide and even they have a positive response to feedback, they may not always take it on, but we have a feedback system in place and we use it, even if a customer is screaming down the other end of the phone we use it. If on a pre-sales line and a potential customer said, "I think you could improve the navigation on your website" (and they have said things along those lines) and if I said, "A big middle finger, with lots of love from me to you" my boss would go mental. The potential customer would think, "screw you, I'm going somewhere else", whilst 1 disgruntled potential customer is barely going to affect their business because they're that big, but it's not good service and if it were common practice, it would be horrendous PR and would mean being less successful.

In this instance, there are alternatives out there, not just Steam, Desura and similar services. Heck, TGG users already have the App Developer's Group.

Unfortunately, that is the real world. You want to get a site up and running for distributing games, I think you've got a lot to learn, however, if your attitude does improve, I am sure members of this community would offer their support as fellow dreamers. But, I think at the moment they're unconvinced, if not disgruntled.

The have also been great services in the past as well, such as The Great Games Experiment and Game Torpedo (which I think was run by members of this community). I had projects on both. We also still have Indie DB, which some members are using. Yes, it's the same people who run Desura, but this is a site where you are able to host your game, complete or incomplete and get feedback and also have people view your game and generate attention.

It's not a suggestion to give up, if anything, it's one to suggest and improvement of your attitude would make this thread more successful than it has been. If you wish to pass it off as trolling, so be it. All I would have lost is time.

Quote: "Once I get the hang of it, huh? I have had nothing but problems with the the overly complicated Eclipse interface, Java, etc. Plus, there's no help forum where I can just ask for the codes. Learning to program using that system is like taking a class, and that's far too much effort. To make a game for Windows, I don't even have to program if I don't want to."


If you are interested in the Android platform there are some easier ways of doing it. You've of course got AppGameKit, then there's Unity3D and Game Maker. However, if you're not interested in programming, there are actually non-programming options, such as Multimedia Fusion 2 and Construct 2.

mr Handy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Sep 2007
Location: out of TGC
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 12:43
Wow that thread is hot as lava!

Quote: "such as GOG get more popular, people will see that they don't need to bother with clients and DRM."

GOG = good old games. This is a little bit different shop.

Quote: "The customer isn't always right."

Customer is always right [not literally!] just becasue he is the person who gives you money. No customers = no money.

«Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful»
«If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases in the grave»
Libervurto
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 15:50
Quote: "Games that probably shall not pass greenlight?"

This is one thing that I have to agree with Fluffy on: greenlight is a farce, it's nothing more than a popularity contest which has nothing to do with actual quality. Look at Yogventures for example, a game that wasn't even a fully-fledged idea yet was instantly approved because of the Yogscast's fleet of unthinking fans. And how many of those will actually buy the game? I'm sure a few thousand probably will, but I'd be surprised if it has any kind of real success. The name alone is a massive hindrance to appealing to anyone beyond Yogscast fandom.

Quote: "The customer isn't always right."

I used to hate the phrase "the customer is always right", because 4/5 times they are wrong, but what this really means, and perhaps a more honest version of the phrase, is "Arguing with customers is rarely worthwhile." As handy says, the important thing is to keep people happy and loyal to your business. I'd only put my foot down if they were taking the piss.

If you want to earn money from anything you are going to have to deal with other people, where else is the money going to come from? If you don't cater to their wants and needs then they will go elsewhere. If you had been more compliant you might have had half a dozen developers contributing to your site by now. It's no good sitting there claiming that you know best and that the site is just how you want it: the site is not for you! It is for the people you want to do business with.


Fluffy Rabbit
User Banned
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 20:22
@OBese-

The site is for me. You guys are not my customers, and neither are you collaborators. You are developers who want one more place to spam your games. As the number of games on my site grows, the popularity of my games grows, and I get rich.

TheComet
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 28th Apr 2013 20:32
Then WHY would ANYONE want to help you?

TheComet


Level 91 Forumer - 9600 health, 666'666 keystroke power (*2 coffee)
Abilities: sophisticated troll, rage

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