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Geek Culture / Moderation on this Forum

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Benjamin
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:27
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I accept that we should cater to peoples' sensitivities, but to what extent? What about people who find violence offensive? Or pictures of women that aren't completely covered? Different cultures may be offended by different things.

I guess the answer would be to only account for the west, since I think most of us here are westerners.

Just throwing that out there.

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:29 Edited at: 24th May 2013 01:29
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That's an excellent point!

And by the way, I'm not trying to categorize people with the political sides thing, just making fun of the situation, really.

http://www.google.com/
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Libervurto
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Posted: 24th May 2013 01:40
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Moderating is a thankless task. The fact we have a community that isn't at each other's throats the whole time must be down to them in some part. We don't see what goes on behind the scenes. I think it's healthy that there is some dissent from members now and again, if nothing else it reminds us that the mods are doing a job for us.

Thanks Mod Squad.

The difficulty in learning is not acquiring new knowledge but relinquishing the old.
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Ortu
DBPro Master
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Posted: 24th May 2013 04:48
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my impression of this forum is that if it were a movie it would be rated PG13. when posting, ask yourself is this something i would commonly expect to find in PG13? sticking to this rating can be frustrating at times, but isnt hard, and will almost garuntee that you wont fall on the wrong side of offensiveness. it does no good to argue about what should be included in PG13, acceptable content for such a rating is long established, and allows violence up to a point, allows 0 nudity, and keeps topics fairly light. thats just the way it is, and these forums closely follow these guidelines.

Shazam!
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easter bunny
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Playing: Dota 2
Posted: 24th May 2013 05:04
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Quote: "Thanks Mod Squad. "

This goes for me too!

Dodge those Balls, awesomest app on the Play Store
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Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 25th May 2013 22:41 Edited at: 25th May 2013 22:44
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I have never had a problem with any of the Mods, but I will say that a rather high number of users seem to have had some run-ins that might be considered, well, "iffy", to say the least. I understand that some of those users (excluding TheComet) were rather iffy themselves to begin with, but I have seen a lot of complaints regardless.

However, that being said, I do agree with DBD 79's response to the following by FredP:

Quote: "Fred P: I banned you.I have no personal issue with you.I don't even know you.Just like the ban (which was for one week) to get your attention said I got tired of seeing a bunch of posts from you which made no sense to me."


Quote: "DBD 79: That's just unacceptable, arrogant, selfish behavior for a mod. Simply banning someone because you don't like what they're writing or because you're getting irritated, regardless of whether it conforms to the AUP or not is WRONG."


That does, in my book, count as "personal moderation", which is to say that it seems like there does exist moderation in which a moderator who has a personal problem with a user (in this case, Fred P being tired of dealing with The Comet) takes uncalled for disciplinary action. I also find the message you left TheComet to be very unprofessional, and it conveys a poor image of the Mod Squad and their intentions of moderating these forums.

Fred P, I am not calling you a bad Mod, rather I'm just pointing out that this action against TheComet could have been handled with much more diplomacy, professionalism and a better attitude. Instead of calling a user annoying, and stating that they were posting "crap posts" as your reason for banning them (surely you would have expected backlash from this?), you could have sent an email, politely asking him to stop. TheComet has been a good user for several years now, it's only been recently that he's had run-ins with the Mods (at least that I know of), and banning him was definitely not a good way to handle this, and in fact looks pretty extreme.

I do think, especially after this, that The Posting Competition should be locked, since apparently that's where the "crap posts" were. It was fun at first (and up until about 2009), but now it really has just become a cesspit of nonsense. People do ask questions there occasionally, but it's been so long since I've seen any of that that I question its usefulness anymore. I'd rather just post a new topic if I have a question, than try to ask it in there.

Other forums get along without a garbage dump just fine, why can't we? I think The Posting Competition is the root of this entire problem, honestly, and instead of moderators insisting that users don't post in there while on Post Approval, they ought to just lock it. So many problems would be circumvented by just damning the thing to the Hell of the Internet, and letting it slip into the ether seems a good thing to do.

I think this might be a record for me for longest post, but nobody could ever top Raven...

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 25th May 2013 22:59
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Ah, I'd agree with you on most of what you said but I have to disagree on the lock the Posting Competition thing; I think random crap is gonna get posted regardless of whether or not it exists, and if it doesn't exist, where will it go?

http://www.google.com/
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Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 25th May 2013 23:45 Edited at: 25th May 2013 23:47
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The problem is, people think it's an acceptable notion to just not post in The Posting Competition when on post approval to prevent "crap posts", so that situations like the one we're in right now won't happen.

Other forums (the GameMaker Forums, for example, or GameDev.net) all survive without a thread that exists purely to collect garbage. Keeping The Posting Competition alive has produced more problems, I think. I've seen users bash other users in it, and it's literally just a garbage pit. I used to be for keeping it open, back when it was still FUN. Nowadays, it's just full of nonsense, even more so than it was back in the day, when Omega gamer 89 still visited this place.

EDIT: Plus, there are disgusting things posted in there (thanks for sharing, Fluffy Rabbit). Why the heck has it stayed unlocked this long?

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Indicium
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Posted: 25th May 2013 23:49
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You're not going to get far with your argument there Yodaman, DBD is one of the main culprits for posting utter crap.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 25th May 2013 23:50
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Oh, thanks... :/

May I see some examples, please?

http://www.google.com/
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Indicium
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Posted: 25th May 2013 23:54
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Just had a quick skim through, I guess you're not the worst, but you're top 5.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th May 2013 00:03 Edited at: 26th May 2013 00:07
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I really don't know what to say :/

To be honest, I hate annoying people. It's never my intention. I get embarrassed to high hell when I know I was irritating someone. So really, I guess it'd be a good idea for me not to post here anymore? Sounds like you guys'd like it too.

http://www.google.com/
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Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 26th May 2013 00:06
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Ah, may I point out exhibit B for my case?

Other users now apparently rate other users for posting "utter crap", and even take the time to link to the posts in question. This is yet another reason why the thread should be locked.

Those really aren't "crap", that was the start of a forum game within a forum game. When I said crap posts, I meant along the lines of what Fluffy Rabbit posted. DBD 79 has actually posted useful things in there.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th May 2013 00:08
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Ah thank you! I'm glad to know I can do positive things every once in a while.

http://www.google.com/
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Indicium
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Posted: 26th May 2013 00:09
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I didn't mean to make you feel that way mate, you don't irritate me in the slightest and that wasn't supposed to come across as a personal attack - it's just something I'd observed. You're not the only one who does it, one person will start and then it spirals out of control to the point where it's not even worth checking the thread.


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 26th May 2013 00:10 Edited at: 26th May 2013 00:12
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@DBD 79:
Everyone is capable of greatness! /inspirational

@Indicium:

Ah, I see your point now, too, but DBD 79 definitely isn't the worst culprit. Indeed, things spiral out of control in there like a tornado, causing a rift between realities and shattering the very fabric of spacetime, leaving everything all jumbled in a mess of reversed physics and antimatter. Quite devastating, in some cases.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th May 2013 00:13 Edited at: 26th May 2013 00:28
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Quote: "I didn't mean to make you feel that way mate,"
Haha no hard feelings!

I just wasn't interpreting what you said as criticism/observation (both of which I do try to take constructively) at first.

I suppose I get the notion that I'm disliked/irritating here due to a very intense personal attack that was posted against me a long while back in a thread of mine similar to this.

And dammit, now I feel bad about making you feel guilty, Indicium!

Only God knows when I'll stop editing things into this post

http://www.google.com/
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mr Handy
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Posted: 26th May 2013 01:05
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Quote: "Only God knows when I'll stop editing things into this post"

Yep, Kezzla knows even this.

«Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful»
«If you contributed to the reason for locking, you may now find yourself on moderation, or in extreme cases in the grave»
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swissolo
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Posted: 26th May 2013 05:30
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TheComet has been a very active and helpful member of the community. Occasionally he throws a couple of weird posts into the mix, but I don't really understand what people seem to have against him. I generally feel the moderation on the forums is perfectly fine, but I fail to see why the tone of many of these posts marked TheComet as some sort of felon, at least how I interpreted it.

swis
Joined: Tue Dec 16th 2008
Interstellar
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KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Posted: 26th May 2013 05:53
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Quote: "TheComet has been a very active and helpful member of the community. Occasionally he throws a couple of weird posts into the mix, but I don't really understand what people seem to have against him"


Over the years he's acquired 4 bans and 6 slaps, along with numerous warnings. I know he's not all bad; but their is a cumulative response here, when he does do something that goes against the AUP. I hope he learns from this, and understands that frequenting these Forums is optional. What he views as "OK", does not make it so...no matter how he tries to justify it.

-Keith

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th May 2013 06:17
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You would agree that his most recent ban was pretty unjustified though, right?
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KeithC
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Posted: 26th May 2013 07:29
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It is not my job to second guess another Moderator's position or reasoning for an action they take. I do know that we are pretty open minded...case in point: this thread is still open.

-Keith

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th May 2013 07:36
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I see. Well, I'm simply curious what your opinion on the matter is, but that's ok.

Quote: "this thread is still open"
I think many of us here are very appreciative of that!
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Jeku
Moderator
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Posted: 26th May 2013 08:49
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Let's all be on our best behaviour

We haven't really had a "spring cleaning" yet and brought out the serious ban hammers. Let's keep it that way!


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th May 2013 09:06
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Just as a completely hypothetical and curious question, what would a person like myself, with my record and history here and such, have to do to get myself a permanent ban? Obviously I don't intend to know this in order to push the limit I guess you could say, but I'm trying to I guess probe the system and see, fully out of curiosity.

Another question, say some person is just one step away from a perma ban, behaves fine for say 5 years, and then takes that final step. Would the 'progressive' system ban them or would their time of good behavior help them out? I'm saying this a lot but I'm just curious.
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KeithC
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Posted: 26th May 2013 09:09
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There are numerous factors involved with a permanent ban from here. Not all moderations fit everyone. There is no true reset (at least as far as how I do things); but behavior is taken into account. Sometimes people just have a bad day.

-Keith

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th May 2013 09:18 Edited at: 26th May 2013 09:19
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I see.

And while we're at it, I was wondering if it wouldn't be too much effort for one of you to search up the reason I was banned. Before I was told that it was due to complaining about my slap, but that complaining ended 5 days before my ban was issued, and the mod who told me wasn't certain of the reason, so I'd just like to make sure that really is the reason. If the reason is long buried in the mod lounge, then I can live without knowing.
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Quik
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Posted: 26th May 2013 10:56 Edited at: 26th May 2013 10:57
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Quote: "You would agree that his most recent ban was pretty unjustified though, right?"



both yes and no tbh - I cant say that I think "posting unnecessary things in the posting competition" is against AUP - however, as the moderator said - it's gotta be quite shoey annoying to wake up to - and have to approve all those...



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th May 2013 14:28 Edited at: 26th May 2013 14:31
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I haven't seen the picture, and I've had arguments with The Comet, but if it's art with boobs I would allow it. Most of the 3D models on here are naked anyway. Naked 3D models have to be allowed on a game site, it would be silly to ban them. The site is about 30% art, and art has always accepted naked bodies.

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xplosys
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Posted: 26th May 2013 15:20
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Quote: "Naked 3D models have to be allowed on a game site, it would be silly to ban them. The site is about 30% art, and art has always accepted naked bodies."


This just happened to be the nearest post to quote, but it's representative of many that I've read in this thread so I'm using it. (not to single out the post or member)

This is the reason we have MOD's. Obviously MODs are human and moderation is subjective. While one opinion is that because we allow nude models we should also allow nude pictures or representations. Another opinion may be that because we allow nude pictures or representations, we should also allow videos. Of course, always keeping in mind that they are "art". Now that's my (another) opinion and there are many. I've seen public art that consisted of hand shaped dog crap on silk, made to resemble various religious symbols. To someone it was art, but I don't think it will be appearing at the Vatican any time soon.

I guess it's good that we can have these discussions. Sometimes it's good to air it out, but in the end the MODs are human and moderation will always be subjective. Still, I think it's better than some kind of automated control that only knows the letters of the AUP.
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Quik
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Posted: 26th May 2013 18:30
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aand you guys really see no reason between a NON DETAILED clay mold - and a girl, hinting at boob grabbing aswell..?

really no difference? at all? none? not even a bit?



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th May 2013 18:48
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Quote: "aand you guys really see no reason between a NON DETAILED clay mold - and a girl, hinting at boob grabbing aswell..?

really no difference? at all? none? not even a bit?"


What's the problem? You see more suggestive images in the ads on these forums. It's not like it's going to turn your children into sexual deviants.

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th May 2013 18:50 Edited at: 26th May 2013 18:52
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Quote: "aand you guys really see no reason between a NON DETAILED clay mold - and a girl, hinting at boob grabbing aswell..?

really no difference? at all? none? not even a bit?"


The 3D models don't have to be non detailed. Some games may require a detailed model. A zombie in a bath? It's nude art, it's games, and it's quite common.

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KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Posted: 26th May 2013 19:20
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Quote: "What's the problem? You see more suggestive images in the ads on these forums. It's not like it's going to turn your children into sexual deviants."


Much of the time, the ads you see are related to your own web searches and activity. Again, it doesn't matter what someone's personal take on it all is; what matters is that the AUP stands, and that this is a privately held company with rules. Abide by them, or leave. Very simple.

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th May 2013 19:37 Edited at: 26th May 2013 19:47
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Quote: "Again, it doesn't matter what someone's personal take on it all is; what matters is that the AUP stands, and that this is a privately held company with rules."


Surely the forums would be a much happier and more productive place if its members had a say in what is acceptable and what is not, behaviour-wise? (hypothetical of course, since I doubt such a change would happen)

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
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Quik
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Posted: 26th May 2013 19:49
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Benjamin: No, just no. Then we would be able to do anything that's not direct insults... I feel for this - a set of rules that's set from a "higher power" is MUCH better than a democracy rule set



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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KeithC
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Posted: 26th May 2013 20:04
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Quote: "Surely the forums would be a much happier and more productive place if its members had a say in what is acceptable and what is not, behaviour-wise? "

Incorrect. The place has been running fine with the rules in place. This is a private forum. Again, like/tolerate it or leave it. Your choice.

-Keith

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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th May 2013 20:43 Edited at: 26th May 2013 20:53
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Quote: "Incorrect."


I don't know why but this sounds a lot like a statement of fact rather than you simply stating your opinion.

We can't know for sure since we've never run the forums on a system of suggestions taken from members. I wouldn't personally run it exclusively on the advice of members, because pure democracy doesn't work and the forums would end up appealing to the lowest common denominator. What I'd do is take suggestions from members and have the people running the forums take these ideas on board and consider whether they are appropriate.

You're right that the forums run 'just fine', that's not really what I was arguing against; just that it might be an even better place with some collaboration with its members. After all, a community run how its leaders want it run without taking into account how its members would like it wouldn't necessarily be a very nice or productive place. If it were possible to improve this community it would benefit TGC directly, so I don't think they'd reject ideas for change simply based on "these are our forums, so deal with it or get lost".

It was just a passing thought; these forums are pretty much how they should be anyway.

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
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Quik
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Posted: 26th May 2013 20:48
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Somehow though, benjamin - I dont think it's up to the moderators to decide



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th May 2013 20:50
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Quote: "Somehow though, benjamin - I dont think it's up to the moderators to decide"


I know, it'd be up to the admin(s) I guess, or perhaps TGC themselves. It doesn't matter thought, it was just a hypothetical idea. As it is these forums run just fine, and I don't think a lot could be changed to make it better.

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
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Quik
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Posted: 26th May 2013 20:55
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It does run fine - and people are mostly just nit picking at stuff :/



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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swissolo
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Posted: 26th May 2013 22:19
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Quote: "Over the years he's acquired 4 bans and 6 slaps, along with numerous warnings. I know he's not all bad; but their is a cumulative response here, when he does do something that goes against the AUP. I hope he learns from this, and understands that frequenting these Forums is optional. What he views as "OK", does not make it so...no matter how he tries to justify it."

See that's perfectly reasonable, but it wasn't the type of reaction I saw in some of the others.

swis
Joined: Tue Dec 16th 2008
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Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 26th May 2013 23:35
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Quote: "It does run fine - and people are mostly just nit picking at stuff :/"


True, I suppose I am nitpicking about the Posting Competition.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 27th May 2013 00:06 Edited at: 27th May 2013 01:36
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Quote: "Surely the forums would be a much happier and more productive place if its members had a say in what is acceptable and what is not, behaviour-wise?"


Problem with democratic forums is that the kind of people who get to influence the rules may not be as reasonable as you, and may end up causing more problems than anything else. One group of dumb people try to implement a dumb rule and you have to use up your spare time to campaign against dumb rules, instead of enjoying your life, creating games and chatting about experiences.

I personally would not post a naked woman on any forum anywhere; no matter what the context or circumstance. But that doesn't mean that what TheComet did would bother me; it is just expected that the internet is filled with naked women, (and men); and these images crop up in the most unexpected places. I appreciate beauty and the odd joke, and I have annoying friends who email me nasty image jokes; but I just close the page, delete the email, move on.

The kind of images that most certainly bother me are sad people attacking or tormenting the helpless; I once did a search google search for 'shoe' images and was shown a man standing on top of a baby; that did upset me obviously, and was clearly a 'joke' in some sick persons mind.

Maybe the ban without warning was a little harsh against someone well known; I see that it was mentioned that it does not matter who you are; but it does. It affects the person and everyone who knows the person; and affects how people view the forum and the company. It gets people questioning the service, just like today, talking about negatives instead of positives; makes you think if you contribute 99% of the time, but act stupid in a few instances, there is no real worth in offering much if no respect or appreciation is offered in return.

I am a serious person, but I sometimes like to have a laugh; and I once made a joke about asking people to buy me a Micrsoft Kinect on a my own thread based on technical questions about the device, then got told by a moderator to 'go make a product and earn a living like the rest of us'; as a customer posting on the lounge forum I was not very pleased with that reaction to what was an obvious joke toward people who know me, but did not fuss about it because that reaction reveals the mentality the moderate is exercising, not TGC; and it is that kind of act-now-think-later behavior that may of contributed to this; who knows...

Moderates have lives to live as well, so his action did not make the moderators lives any easier; and he did not think about that, but we all make mistakes.

Your signature has been erased by a mod, please reduce it to no larger than 600 x 120.
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Quik
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Posted: 27th May 2013 00:16
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Quote: "I once did a search google search for 'shoe' images and was shown a man standing on top of a baby"


Yo man, making me feel reeeal bad here...

(that was a joke based on the fact that i use shoe as a exchange for curse words...)

Quote: "Maybe the ban without warning was a little harsh against someone well known;"


I'd say it'd be MORE harsh against someone less known - so to say. If you know the ropes, a ban aint that bad, if you dont, then a ban can be devestating, I would honestly like to see more communication against newer people, than to old goodies about this.

So to say..



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Chris Tate
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Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 27th May 2013 00:28
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Very true; and as your previously stated communication is important; and I it works the both ways, perhaps there should have been communication before the ban; instead of the other way round.

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Wolf
17
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Joined: 8th Nov 2007
Location: Luxemburg
Posted: 27th May 2013 15:16 Edited at: 28th May 2013 20:12
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Quote: "Most of the 3D models on here are naked anyway. Naked 3D models have to be allowed on a game site, it would be silly to ban them. The site is about 30% art, and art has always accepted naked bodies."


I censor mine, its quite simple and doesnt take much away from the model (naked winged demon lady):

PICTURE LINK CENSORED NUDITY

Quote: "Very true; and as your previously stated communication is important; and I it works the both ways, perhaps there should have been communication before the ban; instead of the other way round."


True! A simple mail would do it.



-Wolf

http://www.serygalacaffeine.com
Without struggle,no progress and no result.Every breaking of habit produces a change in the machine.
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Quik
16
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Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 27th May 2013 16:05
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Quote: "I censor mine, its quite simple and doesnt take much away from the model:"


and then you could - have a link to another site - provided you do use other sites, like deviantart and photobucket

and, if necessary, put it in




Whose eyes are those eyes?
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KeithC
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19
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 28th May 2013 19:19
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Linking of any kind to anything pornographic is not allowed either. Wolf's image is something that is considered fine, however; though a warning to what is being linked to (in his case) would be a good idea.

-Keith

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Quik
16
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Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 28th May 2013 19:39
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of course, pornographic is disallowed...
meh nevermind - Though, if to a Deviantart image - then a mature filter would be used - meaning if you signed up under age of 18 - you cant view it

so maybe that would be fine?


Either way, it was just a thought i had ~



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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