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AppGameKit Classic Chat / What new commands do you *need*

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RickV
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 13:47
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Hi,

I want to better understand our communities needs in these specific areas;

* Improved file and folder commands
* Drawing commands
* Particle commands
* Sounds

What exact commands would you like to see us add to these areas?

Rick

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Van B
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 14:09
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File commands:

* Byte support, for reading and writing files. Currently we have to use an integer, so our files end up bloated.

Drawing Commands:

* Paste image onto image
* In fact, there's a great DBPro plugin called ImageKit - that has lots of useful commands, stuff that could allow for some cool effects in AGK... like pasting image channels, blurring, fast dot etc etc.

Sounds:

Whatever you can add!
* Pitch adjustments
* Effects, like echo and reverb

Ideally we would make our own sound system, with fake 3D positioning, maybe even gluing a sound onto an object. So I think we'd be happy just to see some more control.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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Markus
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 14:11 Edited at: 13th Jun 2013 14:13
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the most commands i needed are born by the task i
want do.
my impression is that some agk concepts are not for daily use or unhandy. Don't get me wrong.

at file i missing only a save/load for a user defined type memory block.

drawing are all to complicated for painting a image on the fly,
blitzbasic/blitzmax is my inspiring example.

particle system is easy to write self, i used my own system
because i can't do what i want, an inspiring example is gamemaker studio.

at sound i missing only a volume change for a playing sample.

at all unimportant for me.
(i like to see more in the 3d part.)


@Van B
there is a ReadByte/WriteByte command
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JohnnyMeek
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 14:15
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GetFacebookUsrPicture

Thanks.
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Hodgey
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 14:16
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Quote: "* Byte support, for reading and writing files. Currently we have to use an integer, so our files end up bloated."

Don't the latest betas support this? I can see ReadByte and WriteByte commands or are they still in a work in progress? I've been out of touch with the betas for a while.

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basjak
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 15:13
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I need:

1- improved files/folder support for windows and random access files.
2- improved files/folder support for windows and random access files.
3- improved files/folder support for windows and random access files.
.
.
.
100- improved files/folder support for windows and random access files.



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RickV
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 15:13
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@ basjak - so what would these commands look like to you?

Rick

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 17:29
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-> Drawing commands and sound commands.


Long life to Steve!
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Naphier
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 17:34
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Sounds
Music OGG support on all platforms (if it is supported then the documentation simply needs updating).
Altering volume of individual sounds without interrupting playback.
Random access to play time intervals of music and sound files.

Particle commands
Commands to control the angle of images on particles.
SetParticleImageAngle(ID , angle00 , angle01) where angle00 to angle01 is a range that particle images will be randomly rotated to.
Keyframes for this and size would be great too. Also issue 450 would be nice.

All of these are very light *needs* and I can survive without them.
I do, however, have stronger needs which are listed in the issues forum (issues 369,463,468,471,495,501,505,507,569,570,573-575,576).

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=PRoF=
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 18:57
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Files/Folders:
I'd really like a fileToMemblock command or something similar so I can hash check files like I could in DBP.

Drawing:
Image Kit was one of my DBP essential plugins and to see it's functionality reproduced in AppGameKit would be great and amazingly useful

Particles:
I have no suggestions, I've only ever used particles for a simple explosion for a game over scene. They were straight forward enough to use.

Sounds:
I'd quite like the ability to start a sample from a specified position, and maybe to be able to adjust the speed or add echo etc.

And from the days of the Amiga, I'd quite like a command to allow the easy creation of VU bars, or tie in animations to music.


Bitmap Font Creator Alpha Out Now!
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Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 19:20
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Quote: "Don't the latest betas support this? I can see ReadByte and WriteByte commands or are they still in a work in progress? I've been out of touch with the betas for a while."


They showed up in beta 11 I think. I'm using the commands fine.

Quote: "* Paste image onto image
* In fact, there's a great DBPro plugin called ImageKit - that has lots of useful commands, stuff that could allow for some cool effects in AGK... like pasting image channels, blurring, fast dot etc etc."

+1

And maybe SetSpriteShader() ????

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MikeMax
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 20:08
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File commands Needs:

- CopyFile (from read dir to write dir ... Due to android APK slow file reads)

Sounds :

- Pitch adjustments
- Changing sound playback volume while playing it

3D :

- Post-processed Shaders (and mobile optimisations for pre-proc and post-proc ...)
- Based-bones mesh animations (FBX ? X ? AppGameKit format ?)
- Vertices and faces Creation/Update/moves/delete/etc.. at runtime
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Marl
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 20:19
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All of the things posted before would be good, and I would like to see them, but I wouldn't say I need them.

Top of my list has to be Sound!

Most other things can be coded around, but sound is very limited.


As an aside, I feel the younger generation can be a bit quick with the "need" word, "I need a new phone", "I need a bigger TV", "I need an ice-cream", I need, I need...

Really, Need them? I think not
</older person whinge>
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basjak
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 21:00
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@rick:

although AppGameKit is for multiplatform but we're still writing it from windows platform. so we need to create utilities for our apps.

until now am creating utilities from DBpro but there are some features in AppGameKit which I can't use in DBpro such as camera, QR code, ...

so, I need this flexibility WIth AppGameKit to create utilities which is a base for bigger programs.

I usually don't make games but I made very big software for clients. and I have some projects are on halt because I am unable to use a flexible I/O commands on AGK.

so I need good file commands same as what Exist in DBpro as well as good file string commands same what exists in STYX library.

cheers

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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 21:15
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basjak, have you tried writing your utilities in Tier 2? That gives you access to tons of good stuff.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Zwarteziel
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 21:56 Edited at: 13th Jun 2013 22:04
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Hi Rick,

I'd like to see a counterpart for the SetVirtualResolution-command: something that would allow me to set an actual resolution, either full-screen or windowed, without the need for the setup.agc-file. Something like:

SetRealResolution( iWidth, iHeight, iDepth, mode )

that could be used like this:
SetRealResolution( 1980, 1050, 32, 1 )

I believe this functionality score quite high in the recent survey. (But I'll need to check. Maybe it's wishful thinking from my part)
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wargasmic
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Posted: 13th Jun 2013 22:15 Edited at: 13th Jun 2013 22:17
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* Drawing commands

Blend modes for 3D objects, sprites and particles (Additive, subtractive etc) I think this is really important for all modern games. Especially for things like cheap glow, light effects and particles
Set draw depth of objects(not sure if this is actually possible atm)
Ability to draw the framebuffer directly(?) to an object or surface without creating an image from it first? Or render to target.
Multiple drawing targets.
Set text to an object or add z axis to text objects.
Triangle lists, triangle strips, line lists, point lists and ability to construct a model from the data.
Take multiple objects and convert them to a single object.
Draw object as wireframe.

* Particle commands

Blend modes as stated above
Add z axis
More settings

* Sounds

Play from x time.
Loop to x time.
Get time.
Multiple tracks playing at once.
Change volume of tracks while they are playing.
Pitch, reverb, positional sound and any other sound manipulation commands (or intergrate FMod)
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fog
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 00:00
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* Improved file and folder commands
Copy File
Move File (which could also be used to rename a file)

* Drawing commands
Set Sprite Blend Mode
Draw Image To Image
Draw Memblock To Image (the ability to draw to part of an image from a memblock rather than creating a whole new one)

* Sounds
Set Sound Speed / Frequency
Set Sound Pan
And as it's a wish list, access to FFT data would be fantastic

Thanks.

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basjak
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 01:13
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@ancient lady:

you're absolutely right. but until now I haven't implemented AppGameKit to work with C++. hopefully this will be the next step. but until now I don't have much time to see how to get them to work together.

let's hope soon.

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JimHawkins
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@fog - Why not move to T2 C++ or Pascal? Several of those things become utterly simple.

Sound is a big issue for cross-platform reasons. Android and iOS really allow only one streaming audio file at a time because they don't have the mix-down facilities that Windows has. OpenAL is cross-platform, and we have seen promises to use this. OAL will do the sound stuff, but I can see a lot of potential problems in the Basic interpreter as far as timing goes.

I think (probably wrongly) that FFT etc will be way beyond the T1 target audience, and so complex to do well that many will give up. My view is "keep it simple" and "Keep it efficient in what it does."

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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xCept
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 03:22
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Sprite blend modes and fullscreen shaders are a must and would provide many more opportunities currently only possible with other engines.
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MikeMax
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 07:29 Edited at: 14th Jun 2013 07:33
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My first 3D need : Manage multiple materials/textures for OBJ Files (MTL File). For 3D it's just essential when we want to make good-looking models (and they rarely have only one texture).

I have created a function to parse MTL and Obj files but it increases loading times a lot (the first time) on android .. especially when OBJ are big in the APK (it becomes long for OBJ files >75-100KB) due to APK uncompression for each ReadLine command :p).

On Windows/Mac it's OK with my parsing function.. for iOS i no longer have an iphone or ipad to test it actually. (but maybe IPA files doesn't work the same way as APK android files .. i hope ! )
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fog
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 09:51
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Quote: "@fog - Why not move to T2 C++ or Pascal? Several of those things become utterly simple."

Hi Jim. I am using T2, although this is the first time I've ever used it and I would never claim to be a good coder

Yes, those file commands for example are simple in C++, but if we don't even have basic functionality guaranteed to work on every platform then we are kind of defeating the point of AGK. Plus T1 doesn't have that option.

Quote: "I think (probably wrongly) that FFT etc will be way beyond the T1 target audience, and so complex to do well that many will give up. My view is "keep it simple" and "Keep it efficient in what it does.""

I've used FFT via FMOD in DBPro and got some great results relatively simply. If I can do it then I bet others will be able to do some really cool things with it.

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Markus
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 10:07
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my wish SetVirtualResolution x,y,orientation
because i saw that the screen not rotate because is was 100x100
and the other screen commands end up with try and see what happens.
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RickV
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 11:41
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Hi everyone,

Thanks for your continued feedback. I'm learning a lot about your needs (well wants). The more we understand, the better the result.


@ Naphier - OGG is not supported on all platforms, I'll ask Paul to update the help files to make this very clear. The same issue applies to video files.
I also ran through those stronger needs you have with Paul, a few were actually fixed in V1.08 and we're looking at some of the compiler issues.

@=PRoF= - File to memblock is on our shopping list! We'll look at image kit and see what we can emulate from that. Sound seeking seems a very popular request. If we can get the VU bar info then we'll add it.

@Phaelax - Yes we'll be adding shader support for sprites.

@MikeMax - OK so copying and moving files is what people want, gotcha. Pitch & Volume is on our list. Those 3D enhancements are also on our list.

@Marl - Sounds will be the first thing we look into!

@basjak - from what I understand, people want copy and move file commands. Are there any others you need? Please be SPECIFIC!

@Zerotown - I will discuss this with Paul. Could you explain why you need this over what we already offer?

@wargasmic - thanks for your detailed list. I will discuss these with Paul.

@fog - thanks for your clear list.

@MikeMax - as the developer doing the most with 3D you're the expert! This seems like a must have, we'll add it to the 3D work list.

@Markus - I'll talk to Paul about this.

Rick

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Grook
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 11:48
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Pitch control for sounds is a definite must.

I would love to see support for vector graphics too.

"Happiness is contrary to the human condition" --White (to Black)
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Markus
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 12:04
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@RickV
thanks,
about sound, if we get 3d in future, 3d sound is a good feature.
if the sound engine can do this we need a new command for the listener position. (and the wave files should be mono)
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Zwarteziel
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 13:03
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Quote: "@Zerotown - I will discuss this with Paul. Could you explain why you need this over what we already offer?
"


Hi Rick,

fist, thanks for listening and replying to the forum-members: it is much appreciated! Regarding your question, please allow me to explain: AppGameKit allows us to code applications for a multitude of platforms, both mobile and 'immobile'. A large share of the latter are made up of desktop computers running Windows. Now as you know, desktops use a very variable range of monitors and resolutions. I can set one specific resolution for Windows-based computers by modifying the setup.agc-file and determine whether my app should run in a window or full-screen. Ideally however, I would like to give myself and an end-user more control.

So, say I've made a game that - by default - runs in a windowed resolution of 1280x1024. When someone plays my game on a monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1080 pixels, he or she might want to adjust the size of the window upwards (or switch to a fullscreen mode), to cover more space of the monitor. AppGameKit currently doesn't allow this: setting a resolution in the setup.agc-feels a bit rigid in this respect. Also, it is my understanding that AppGameKit currently uses the monitor's native resolution to display fullscreen graphics, regardless of the width- and height variables I've entered before. So: even though I've set a game to run in a 1280x1024 resolution, it will actually run in 1920x1080 if that's my monitor's native resolution and I've set fullscreen=1 in setup.agc. Ideally, i'd like it to switch to an actual fullscreen-resolution of 1280x1024.

Please let me know if my post is obscure or incomprehensible. English is not my first language, so it may be that my explanation isn't clear enough.
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Markus
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 13:40 Edited at: 14th Jun 2013 13:46
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@Zerotown,Rick
maybe beginning with CreateVirtualResolution(nativewidth,nativeheight,virtwidth,virtheight,orientation,fullscreen,...) ,if this
command it not used the setup.agc will be used.
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RickV
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 15:05
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OK, I get it! I think we have already planned for this.

Rick

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Impetus73
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I want 2D sprite animation commands, abit like AMAL in AMOS for the Amiga.

Example command:

setspriteanimatemovement(sID,startX,startY,stopX,stopY,Xstep,Ystep,flag,pause)

"Xstep"/"Ystep" tells how many pixel/units to move each sync()

"flag" tells if it's one time, loop, toggle back/forth

"pause" tells the animation to pause a specified time/steps before doing the "flag" action

others:

setspriteanimaterotate(....)
setspriteanimatesize(....)
setspriteanimatecolor(....)
setspriteanimatemovementpattern(...) circle, sinus and so on...

This would help allot with game loop simplification

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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Zwarteziel
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 15:53
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Quote: "OK, I get it! I think we have already planned for this."


Great news! Many thanks!
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Ched80
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I agree with fog's sounds commands. SetSoundPan is what I need as a minimum, high level and low level filters, echo and reverb would also be welcomed. The latter can be done as part of the development, but it rapidly increases the file size of the game.

Couldn't see any mention of 2D sharers, are these parked for now?

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 16:54
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Quote: "I agree with fog's sounds commands."


This is all possible with OpenAL.

Be aware that FMOD is very expensive apart from free apps.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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jlahtinen
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 18:18
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Array sorting perhaps.
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wargasmic
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 19:49
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*shaders
Ability to pass arrays to the shader
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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Jun 2013 21:39
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Quote: "Array sorting perhaps."

That you can easily write yourself.

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easter bunny
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A feature that I really need is arrays in UDTs, I know this isn't in the areas listed up the top, but it's pretty much essential for me.



Dodge those Balls, awesomest app on the Play Store
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The Zoq2
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Arrays in UDTs would be a very usefull feature..
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Ranietz
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Sound commands:
I want to be able to seamlessly loop a music file. That's not possible with mp3 files on Windows right now and AppGameKit on Windows (at least on my PC) wont play ogg files. One possible solution could be to be able to set start/end loop points.
Something like: PlayMusic(id,startPoint,endPoint,loopFlag)

Drawing commands:
I can do most of the things I need with the DrawLine command but I still miss a simple circle and dot command.
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JimHawkins
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Have you tried installing the Ogg Vorbis DirectShow filters on Windows?

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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BraindeaD
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Posted: 15th Jun 2013 10:42 Edited at: 15th Jun 2013 10:44
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Hi all,
here is my command wishes:

-Not related with Rick's first post, but: Dynamic lists, for example, to store enemies Ids/structs where you can add or remove any item, and make a foreach loop to read all of them. If you add an item to the list o remove one of it, the list automatically redim itself.
-2D blend modes... at least additive and subtractive blend... with this blend modes you can do some good 2d effects (torches, shadows, etc).
-Ability to change between full screen/window (in Win and Mac) from AppGameKit code instead setup file.
-Ah! and, please, a 3D fog command!!!

Best regards
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jlahtinen
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Posted: 15th Jun 2013 14:53
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Quote: "That you can easily write yourself."


Ofcourse. You could do many things yourself, but with AppGameKit many are looking for sort of easiness.
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Mobiius
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Arrays in types please.

This is my current project, check it out! [href]forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=204576&b=8[/href]
This is my website, check it out! [href]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/href]
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TDavid
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Posted: 15th Jun 2013 16:48
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Sound manipulation functions would be great. I'd like to be able to change the volume of a sound which is currently playing.

SetSoundVolume(iD, iV)

Even though it is urgent, I feel the need to say that the playsprite function is to simple to be of any use at the moment. Even a beginner like me had to write his own function to manage sprite playing. More specifically, the thing I wished for at some point was a -1 step for the loop parameter, in order to have an animation loop backwards. An alternated loop parameter, with which the animation would go from frame 1 to x and then from x to 1 repeatedly was something I wanted too. With those two parameters I could use it to render background animations and other simple stuff.

Anyway, sound manipulation functions and 3D functions have a higher priority.
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Ranietz
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Posted: 15th Jun 2013 21:45 Edited at: 15th Jun 2013 21:46
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Quote: "Have you tried installing the Ogg Vorbis DirectShow filters on Windows?"


I thought they were installed since WinAmp played ogg files just fine but it turns out they were not installed. After I installed the codec I took a wav file that loops seamlessly and converted it to a mp3 file and an ogg file.

In WinAmp all 3 formats (wav, mp3 and ogg)loops seamlessly.
In Windows Mediaplayer none of the formats loops seamlessly.
In AppGameKit on Windows neither the mp3 file or the ogg file loops seamlessly but the wav file does when played as a sound.

That's not good enough for me since wav files are much bigger than mp3 and ogg.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 16th Jun 2013 00:18
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Quote: "In AppGameKit on Windows neither the mp3 file or the ogg file loops seamlessly but the wav file does when played as a sound."


DB was the same way with looping music, there would be a slight pause at the end but not when looping sound.

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JimHawkins
14
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Joined: 26th Jul 2009
Location: Hull - UK
Posted: 16th Jun 2013 01:07
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Winamp is a dedicated music player. AppGameKit isn't. I can see why millisecond precise looping is an issue for music files. I posted a demonstration a long time ago of using wav sections if you want seamless looping using the sound command set.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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haliop
User Banned
Posted: 16th Jun 2013 10:28
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Hi rick ,
i would like GetImage to work faster
like if its already on screen... how come it takes too much time to save it as an Image ? it dosent make sense to me since its already there... its not like im creating a new image.. just saving what i see into memory with ID so i can manipulate it or whatever..

that would help me and i guess alot of others alot.

about sound..
i would like every filter, equlaizer, anything that could help the music and sound in game sound better..
also i would like well ive already found a way to build it myself
but i would like a Music Array inside AppGameKit what does that mean..


Music: the current commands are
Play , Stop, Resume ,Pause
which are great
but in order to play a few songs i would need to load them all before starting to play them
now that may take some time and unnessecry memory usage..
what i would like is a queue list for music
so all i have to do is :
1. Load the first music file
2. add another music file or files into queue list
3. play them all

when the first loaded music file is finished playing
the second will exctract itself from the queue list load it and delete the first from memory and so on

so actually in memory there will be only one music file at any time
and the app will loop itself , load play delete, load play delete etc..
i think we all would benefit from such a queue list and this can by applied for other stuff aswell.

thank you.



http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=198467&b=22
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 16th Jun 2013 19:13
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If there was a real possibility of arrays in UDTs, I would definitely list that as my most wanted addition.

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