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AppGameKit Classic Chat / App Game Kit 108 Beta 17

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Clonkex
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 16:45 Edited at: 8th Aug 2013 16:48
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Quote: "I agree that TGC have probably done everything they can, but I can actually think of one bug that is a pretty big showstopper. Atleast for larger projects and was what made me go to T2. UDTs and arrays don't always work and on seemingly random ocations, they just break and return 0 when you try to pass them as parameters to functions. There are ways around it, and I know that Paul can't fix it with the help of lee. But it's still a fairly big issue IMO"


I suppose it would be very useful to pass entire arrays into functions, but I've always assumed it wouldn't work and have found other ways to achieve my ends.

EDIT: Oh you mean as in "thingyfunc(myarray[42].number)".


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baxslash
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 16:50
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I just went through all the defects in the list and this one isn't there. It has been said a number of times that if people don't report bugs to the official list it is likely they won't be fixed.

I would suggest that is the best place to start. I can only assume Paul forgot or assumed this was already added to the list. If you want this fixing I'd add it before Paul decides V1 is finished

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Mobiius
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 17:26
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Quote: "Not one I've ever encountered and I pass data into commands and functions that way a LOT."

Nor me. I've never experienced this issue either.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because combined it's over 600x120
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 17:52
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I thought Ancient lady discussed this issue whith digital awakening, their conversation involved bugs with passing UDT arrays to functions. If it's not on the list, I will add it in a few days. If im not misstaken I was using 1076.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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baxslash
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 17:56
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Passing a whole array in might be something else but passing a particular array element certainly doesn't cause any problems for me the way you were showing it.

There were some odd examples of passing arrays through functions that didn't look to me as if they even should work!

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 20:36
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Nobody answer me?
I'm the only one use AppGameKit for his job?

Are you all rich and AppGameKit and apps are an hobby?
Which customer has priority in this forum?? Who use it as hobby or who use it to work?

Long life to Steve!
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baxslash
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 20:42
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I wish I was rich. I'm actually much poorer than I've been for years...

For now it's just a hobby again.

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Markus
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 22:58
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@xGEKKOx
i had the luck,
i have a part time job (since last year)as developer
(before 40 hours/week) and ultimately now
i can write my apps/games in the rest of the week
but more as hobby. one agk board/game is on the waiting list,
i will release with 108.
in one other agk game i have problem with tilt sensor :-(
for the third agk game i have a lot of todos... and
now i working at my own sprite animation tool.
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 22:58
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First, thank you Paul for fixing the iOS edit box issue. I will test it when we get back from our holiday. We are currently in Alaska and won't get back for another ten days.

Next, WOW! This has been a busy thread.

I did start a thread before I left that did a recap of the status of bugs in the bug list (going back a year or so). I tested all the ones that I had the hardware for in the latest beta. I don't remember the specific issue numbers for the UDT ones. But passing a UDT, in its entirety, through two levels of function calls is still an issue. Passing elements do a UDT as calling parameters is not specifically mentioned in any of the google issues that I can think of.

There are actually more feature request, lately, than bug reports in the list.

I know that bugs get worked on without necessarily having the google issue updated. Typically, what I have seen is that, when a new beta is coming out, Paul goes through and updates a bunch of issues at once.

TGC has been very responsive to issues posted in threads, once there is enough information for them to work with.

As a volunteer Community Tester, I know that many reported 'bugs' have turned out to be coding or media or hardware issues that are totally outside the control of TGC.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 01:16
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I even remember the issue number, 449. Comment #6 have a good example. http://code.google.com/p/agk/issues/detail?id=449&start=100

I have run into this bug a few times while coding my new editor. I have to run the values through globals to make them work. It makes debugging take much longer than it should and the workarounds are not pretty.

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DVader
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 02:14
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This thread seems to have gone downhill somehow. AppGameKit has bugs, but nothing really that bad, from my experience. I'm sure any current issues will be fixed at some point. I think TGC just want to move onto version 2 and get going on it. If old bugs are fixed along the way I'm sure they will be fixed in version 1 also.

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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 10:43
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Quote: "I even remember the issue number, 449. Comment #6 have a good example. http://code.google.com/p/agk/issues/detail?id=449&start=100"

I don't tend to pass data that way, maybe just because it was never possible before but yes I can see why that could cause problems and it really should be fixed. I will try to push for this with Paul and Rick (away on holiday but who knows).

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Santman
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 11:09
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I think maybe a few people have overlooked a couple of key facts. The first is that a great many of us have now effectively pre purchased agk v2 - tgc are now essentially obligated to get stuck in to it. But there's also the fact that, amongst other things, an entirely new editor/compiler is in the list of stretch goals, so I would assume that anything wrong related to those would by default be fixed. There's also the fact that other languages have more people working on them, and they are advancing. If agk doesn't, it could quickly fall behind. They NEED to move on, and as has been said, software just gets updated. I have phtoshop, very out of date now, as I don't have £100 plus EVERY YEAR for new features. My office is also 2003 and guess what: excel still has bugs they fixed later but never did 2003 as it was a past project. Agk is the same, and I know not everyone will agree, but for the majority I'd like to see the focus just move to v2,which would benefit the majority of the users. It's a sad fact, but true.

Although here's a suggestion: I'm not in the league of baxslash, ancient lady, markus etc, but I'm not inept either. A great many others are skilled too, so if anyone is hitting something that they consider a "show stopper" bug start a thread using that heading - although the community can't fix an agk bug, there's a good chance it will come up with another way of doing what you want. I think you'll find they've mostly been doing this so ce I started with dbpro years ago, and I've never ever come across a task that only had one conceivable way of doing something (excluding hardware issues like tilt sensors). I've never seen such a helpful community.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 12:02
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Thanks Bax I haven't used this myself before. But opted to try this approach for my own GUI functions and for my new PC editor. You can write some very powerful functions this way.

I don't mind that Paul works on v2. Just that this needs to be fixed in v2 and maybe in a future 109. I'm a backer anyway so v1 is not so important to me.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 12:19
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I feel the same way, leaving V1 this way will be no issue for me personaly, I can go around the bugs that exist and it's perfectly possible to create a game with. I just tink that some people might get anoyed if v1 is "abandoned". Hopefully they will look past it and be able to work around the bugs aswell. Nothing can be bugfree afterall

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Santman
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 13:43 Edited at: 9th Aug 2013 13:44
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Some people will get annoyed regardless though: those who want Paul to focus on v1,or those who want a shift to v2. With only one person, where's the middle ground? Perhaps starting v2, but as v1 issues are addressed updating that too, as someone suggested, is an idea suitable for all (even though it would surely slow v2 development)?

Whichever way, I surely don't envy Paul. Lol
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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 13:44
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Well in the end it's up to TGC how they decide to leave V1, either way it's a massively useful version that has very few actual 'bugs'.

I look forward to seeing V2 evolve.

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 14:02
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The key point is - we need a release, not more betas.

No more "features" - a 108 release.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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Arbrakan
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 14:20
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Passing UDTs from one function to another is for me the most annoying bug. If TGC can leave AppGameKit v1 without this bug, it will be great.
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 16:01
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Quote: "I also used T1 BASIC, which is my favorite "

GREAT!
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 17:07
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Hmmmm, on 14 September i will decide if continue to use AGK.
I need the 108 with MemBlocks (without AdMob and Socials).

If it will be released i will continue to use AppGameKit and look for V2.
If not, i will switch to Apple Sprite Framework.
My opinion is simple.

Long life to Steve!
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eborr
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 18:52
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Having worked for almost 30 years in the it industry, on the serious rather than the gaming side, I find the naivity of some of the comments on this thread surprising-

Software has bugs, big companies have bugs in their software, small companies have bugs in their software.

This is not news. Generally the important bugs get fixed but less important ones don't.

If you invest in software from a small company you take some risks, but same if you take software from a large company. Having worked at the heart of the industry, I have loads of horror stories, but not wishing to be sued or shot I will refrain from sharing them with you.

If you think that buying modestly priced software is going to give you some kind of privelidged access to a developer team - think again. I view buying software from TGC as an exercise in trust - And thus far I have have no cause for complaint. I hope that AppGameKit will become a world beater and they will be able to make shedloads of money.
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Impetus73
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 20:26
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You will newer get rid of the bugs, you have to live with them, everything changes, and so new bugs comes into play, there is just too many places they can hide. I suggest that we start a pinned forum thread, with all the most annoying current bugs, and then people can post solutions to work around those bugs. The thread should be heavily moderated, to remove nonessential chatter.

Just because 10 people are stuck with a bug, does not mean there isn't one who happily found a way around it. They just did not know who to tell...

----------------
AGK programmer
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Aug 2013 22:08
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We don't moderate on topic discussion lightly, especially just because someone doesn't agree with us

This is a lively but I think healthy discussion. I hope everyone sees it that way.

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Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 00:17 Edited at: 12th Aug 2013 00:17
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Has anyone else had trouble with the GetRawMouseWheelDelta() command in Tier 2? I've tried the latest beta and it seems to be working in Tier 1 but not in Tier 2... If someone else could verify that it's not just me screwing up, I'll add it to the Google bugs board.

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JohnnyMeek
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 10:46
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I also recently converted a Tier 1 project to Tier 2 and had the same problem with GetRawMouseWheelDelta().
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 15:59
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For the mouse wheel the Core.cpp files will have changed so make sure those are updated in you project.

I'll have a look at the UDT bug but if it is so integral to the way the compiler works that changing it might introduce new bugs then it'll have to wait for version 2.
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JohnnyMeek
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 16:16
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This was from a brand new install, Beta 17 was the first instance of AppGameKit on the machine.
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 16:48
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I'm reading the Apple Sprite Kit example, i see it have also AI, particle emitter, etc....
Really big!!
XCode 5 will have a particle emitter editor lol :o

Wow a tile editor with tile engine ?!??!?!! :o

More i read and more i go crazy!!!!

TGC have you read this Apple documentation?
Wow!!!

Long life to Steve!
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SolusHunter
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 16:50 Edited at: 13th Aug 2013 11:35
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I have discovered that the OpenToRead/OpenToWrite commands do not seem to work on the latest 108 beta 17 when running on Android devices.

Works fine on Windows.

It might just be the OpenToWrite command that's not working as it never seems to write a file out.

EDIT: Turned out to be a dodgy AppGameKit install. A fresh install resolved the issue.

DarkBasic Pro 7.7 U77RC7 - AppGameKit 107
Windows 7 x64
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 17:20
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Thanks Paul

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 20:10
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Apple Sprite Kit is 2D only.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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unlikely
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 20:31 Edited at: 12th Aug 2013 20:33
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Quote: "Apple Sprite Kit is 2D only."

Not only that, but *new* Apple OS's (iOS, OS X Mav) only afaik... hard to get too excited about that.
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:25
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Also AppGameKit is 2D only (i use 1076 and 3D is not present, V2 will have 3D for production).

Maybe you don't have access to the developer board.
There is a big description of all features, and are amazing.
I'm wondering if TGC Team read it?!

Please don't flame for iOS or Android, i'm trying to let TGC Team understand they need to hurry up to complete the 108.

I read that 3D will be available very soon on iOS/MAC.

Don't know why Paul don't answer to me....
Maybe i'm alone and i don't understand it. I'm very sad of this.

Long life to Steve!
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Mobiius
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:49
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Quote: "Also AppGameKit is 2D only"

It currently does 3d too.


Now Visit My Website
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Lucas Tiridath
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 23:07
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Quote: "For the mouse wheel the Core.cpp files will have changed so make sure those are updated in you project."

I'm pretty sure I'm using the latest Core.cpp (I got it from my install of beta 10817). Is there a line of code you could give me to search for to make sure that I'm using the right version? For my own mouse wheel implementation that I've been using up to now for Windows, I've had to listen out for WM_MOUSEWHEEL events, but I've search for that in the latest Core.cpp and haven't been able to find it..

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 01:16
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AGK production release doesn't have 3D (1076).
AGK Beta have 3D (108 .17).

Who does it as hobby can use 108, who WORK like me, need the final release (production, know this word?)....

Ok better i don't write more here or i will get some other AppGameKit Android fan "kiddo" answers.
Sorry, if i'm rude, but call me when some of you start to earn with a 3D AppGameKit "completed" game.

Long life to Steve!
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 02:08
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Good news is that Lee has found the UDT bug in the compiler, I'll upload the fix as a new beta soon (hopefully this week).

Quote: "I'm pretty sure I'm using the latest Core.cpp (I got it from my install of beta 10817)"


You are correct, the tier 2 projects didn't have the latest file whilst the interpreter project does. I'll update it in the next beta.

Quote: "Don't know why Paul don't answer to me...."


We do a lite version of the iOS player that removes all the social functions, we will be leaving AdMob in as some users might want it for revenue generation. If you are dead set against having the AdMob lib in your project then I have a possible solution. You can remove the AdMob lib from your project and include the following lines in one of the Objective-C source files

This will give the AppGameKit library the classes it is looking for and as long as you don't call the AppGameKit advert commands it should work.
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apocolyp4
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 02:36
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xGEKKOx AppGameKit 108 is more than stable enough to release commercial software using it. Ive been doing so since February without any issues. This includes IOS, Android and Blackberry 10.
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swissolo
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 03:03
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Quote: "Good news is that Lee has found the UDT bug in the compiler, I'll upload the fix as a new beta soon (hopefully this week)."

which bug is this specifically? Sounds exciting!

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 03:08
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Thx Paul.

Long life to Steve!
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 03:10
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@apocolyp4 : Try to release something with 108, and wait the reviewer response

Long life to Steve!
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apocolyp4
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 03:31
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xGEKKOx I have released software using 108 on IOS, Android and Blackberry 10. I have had no issues in doing so.
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 05:00 Edited at: 13th Aug 2013 05:02
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Have you ever used Push Notification, Multiplayer by Game center, In App with subscriptions and other features that need to call the same included delegates that AppGameKit handle?
Those delegates go in conflict with the AppGameKit ones?
This is why i say they can't be included in the Light version.

Android and iOS are too different, and the rules to accept apps on iOS are more strict.
I had "Street Karate Fighter 2" rejected for 1 month bacause the 108 and Facebook SDK.
I losed much money in July, as the 35 days month for Apple...
I'm not really happy of this.

What i mean is, if you do business, you search for the best way to do it better.
AGK can be the best if TGC divide iOS from Android.
Android from October will go down on the market for a long time, and Windows 8 is too far away...

I only wanna continue to work with AppGameKit, but nobody except me have problem, and i don't know what to do. Maybe i do too complex apps, that use too many new features.

I just hired a new coder in our Team, as i can't update all my games by myself.
I wished to give this job to someone on this forum, but nobody use Obj C.

And we return to the start point, like in a circle.

Long life to Steve!
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 09:20
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Paul:
That is great news Give my thanks to Lee. Now I can implement that in my editor and remove my workarounds.

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RickV
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 10:48 Edited at: 13th Aug 2013 10:50
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Hi all,

First a big thanks to Lee for taking a look at the UDT issue. I spoke at length about this with him before he fixed it and he was worried it might have a knock on effect which might make V1.08 unstable. We were planning to fix it in a V1.09 update. Seems it was easier than expected.

It's our opinion that V1.08 is now very stable and it will make sense to crack on with the development of V2. We will consider bug fixes that make sense. Where issues will die away with the advent of V2 (eg Compiler issues) then we don't see much point investing precious time in these areas.

TGC is now highly focused on AppGameKit and FPS Creator Reloaded. These are the only two products we will be working on. We admit that we have created too many products and spread ourselves thin at times and we'll not be making that mistake again.

Game Engine development is a complex and time consuming business and we work hard to make the right choices and calls. If you can hang on in there then you'll see the fruits of our labor as we evolve both products.

With experienced "Kid like" attitudes we'll take your thoughts on board and enthusiastically work towards making the easiest game makers available.

xGEKKOx - I think you should email me about your needs more. We feel we have done a lot already to make this Lite version but still it's a big problem for you. But you seem to be the only one asking for this. Still, we want you using AppGameKit so let's know more about your stuggles.

Rick

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 11:16
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Thanks for the info Rick. That's the stuff we want to know Acknowledge that an issue exists, your plans for it and why. Makes us worry and speculate less.

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Arbrakan
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 13:26
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Great news for the UDT bug! Thanks TGC

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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 17:45 Edited at: 13th Aug 2013 17:48
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Thx for the answer Rick, but i prefer to write here, as respecting the other user they need to know why i'm insisting on my needle.
The problem is i need less, not more...

All i need is a 108 without :
- AdMob
- Facebook
- Push Notifications
- Game Center
- Twitter
- iAD
- All the things that are EXTRAS

To be more clear :
All i need is 1076 with the fixes of 108 and the MemBlocks.
I don't mind of 3D.

That's all.
I understand very well the work of the TGC team, i do this all days, all the time.
Here in Italy is holidays time, and i'm at home updating all my 52 apps since 1 of July.

Anyway, the version i'm requesting is the most important, and i think all the coders must use it, as the EXTRAS are too different from OS to OS.
If the team really wanna do a Light version, it must be as i suggested, and your V2 marketing will be also much important.

3D, Extras (optional) in V2 can be a success. But if you include 3D and Extras in the 108 or 109 and they are a pain for some coders, they will choose to download another engine.
AdMob is an Extra, as it doesn't exist on iOS.
Do Extra as Extra, don't include them in the LibAGK, do separated LIB with auto inclusion, as FacebookSDK done lately.

If i was TGC:
109 Light :
- 2D

109 Full :
- 2D
- Extra

2.0 :
- 2D
- 3D
- Extra (lib divided with auto inclusion)

That's what i suggest.

Long life to Steve!
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Santman
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Joined: 15th Sep 2011
Location: Inverness
Posted: 13th Aug 2013 19:27
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Xgekkox,

Not sure if it's your translation or not, but I really don't think a cut down version is at all what most people here want my friend. In fact, a great many people were both keen and excited for everything you want removed. Lol.
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