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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Ad Block Campaign to Spread the Word

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 01:16 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 01:16
Personally, I think it's a terrible idea. Whether you support ad blockers or not, it's pretty obvious this won't go over well...

Check it out
swissolo
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 01:42
Well that's quite ironic isn't it I've always been unsure about the benefits of ad blockers, but in my experience all malicious software sneaks in through ads (this assumes you aren't doing anything idiotic in other places) so I may need to turn to such a solution at some point

PixelF
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 01:47
Ad blocking is a big no no for me.

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easter bunny
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 02:28
I'm a big fan of using an ad blocker, I'm just not a fan of other people using them.
How else do I make cash?


The NEW, awesomest app on Google Play
Chris Tate
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 02:41 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 02:44
Oh brother... I always blame the big companies who torture you with stupid adverts; lose 99% fat in one day, earn $1000 in one hour, look what a 50 year old mum did to look like a 20 year old, and all of the nonsense. Not to mention my YouTube experience. Come to think of it, if they pull it off, I will blame YouTube 100%.

Not all adverts are bad; but in 10 years of using the internet, I've never spent a penny on anything via a banner or video advert. I always go looking for what I want when it is the appointed time to go looking for it.

TheComet
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 02:43
Quote: "Well that's quite ironic isn't it"


Advertising the adblocker

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 02:45 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 02:46
I'm not sure if any of you are predicting the same outcome as I am; it seems really likely the government will get involved and make ad blocking illegal due to an outcry from companies caused by this. Ultimately, I'd say there's a good chance the free Internet could be lost.
Chris Tate
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 02:51
I doubt it, they couldn't stop the distribution of hacked software and movies; they will not be able to stop the distribution of any OS compatible software, which includeds AdBlockers. Even if they could; even I could build my own web browser and stop the adverts myself, let alone the millions of hackers out there.

Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 02:51
Directly from that link:
$25,000
Start our anti-ads ad campaign


Hmmm..... I wonder if this is just a social experiment to trick people into seeing the value of ads?


What if real ads worked like internet ads? Traffic cams record how many cars pass your billboard by the highway and you get a penny for each one. Sounds ridiculous? Thought so!

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 07:53
I think some sort of legal intervention upon ad blocking is inevitable. Things like this seem like they'll speed it up...

I agree, real ads working like that would be ridiculous.

Perhaps if ad blockers did something along the lines of allowing ads to be played if the user desires, and users would be allowed to vote on ads. Ads voted as annoying would be blocked, and ads voted as entertaining would be shown.
Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 08:31
Quote: " ad blockers did something along the lines of allowing ads to be played if the user desires"


If they want to display the ads, disable their ad-blocker or don't install it at all.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 10:46 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 10:48
How are people supposed to monetize content without ads?
I don't really understand why people use it, surely its pure entitlement?

If you visit a website and consume their resources, then that website has a right to make some money back from your visit.
If you simply don't like being advertised to, then you don't visit that website. You aren't entitled to visit it without the adverts.

I agree that there are some security issues regarding some ads, but if you are visiting a website that has some really dodgy adverts, then you show the website owners that you don't approve by simply not visiting their site, otherwise they'll just categorize you as "another one of those users who just wants something for nothing".

Its just bad news imho.

TheComet
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 12:31
...and then you go to livestream to watch your favorite artist draw epic art, or watch Day[9] cast Funday Monday, and every 10 minutes a 30 second add interrupts you.

Libervurto
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 13:58 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 14:17
Quote: "If you visit a website and consume their resources, then that website has a right to make some money back from your visit.
If you simply don't like being advertised to, then you don't visit that website. You aren't entitled to visit it without the adverts."

I agree, but idealism doesn't solve the problem.

There need to be more options for supporting youtube and content creators. Many people have said they would much rather drop a few dollars here and there than watch adverts. Some youtubers post donation links, so their fans can support them without watching ads. I don't know why that type of thing hasn't been integrated into youtube; they are missing out on their cut for one thing.

How many people here have donated to Wikipedia? I haven't, and I feel pretty bad about that because I use it a lot (going to do that now actually).

There are two issues with optional-payment — and let's face it, almost everything digital is optional-payment, whether the creators wish it to be or not — one problem is that most things are compulsory-payment, so we naturally give those items precedence simply because they require payment, and that way we can have both. That's a bad habit that only developing a social conscious is going to solve.
The second issue is that people who release free software/sites rarely ask for money at all, and if they do their request is hidden away, and those who support free software/sites rarely advertise the fact they have contributed financially to those projects. There's still an unfortunate stigma attached to asking for money or telling people you've donated money, no matter what the context.

Another related factor is the "drop in the ocean" fallacy, if I can call it that, which is where you convince yourself that using ad-block is fine because you assume the majority of people don't use it, and you make up such a low percentage of the user-base that your lack of contribution has no effect.



Formerly OBese87.
mr Handy
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 14:18
Quote: "If you visit a website and consume their resources, then that website has a right to make some money back from your visit.
If you simply don't like being advertised to, then you don't visit that website. You aren't entitled to visit it without the adverts."


Oh my, I should immediately turn off the antivirus, I are not entitled to visit sites without the trojans!
Oh my, I should immediately turn off the anti-banner, I are not entitled to visit sites without the pr0n banners!
Quote: "if you are visiting a website that has some really dodgy adverts, then you show the website owners that you don't approve by simply not visiting their site"

Oh my, I don't approve google ads as posts in TGC threads, then... oh, come on!

TheComet
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 14:42 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 14:42
Handy makes a good point

Chris Tate
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 14:53 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 15:02
Quote: ""If you visit a website and consume their resources, then that website has a right to make some money back from your visit.
If you simply don't like being advertised to, then you don't visit that website. You aren't entitled to visit it without the advert"


I suppose we don't all use the internet frequently

mr Handy
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 15:22
By the way, some self-centered persons does not even want to think about those who have limited Internet traffic. And not even because of poverty, but for some good reasons: being in roaming, GSM/CDMA USB modem for laptop with limited traffic. That is pure money loss for end-user.

Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 16:50
Quote: "If you visit a website and consume their resources, then that website has a right to make some money back from your visit.
If you simply don't like being advertised to, then you don't visit that website. You aren't entitled to visit it without the adverts."

Of course they have the right to make money, doesn't mean ads are a good method. They can offer a product or service if they want money, doesn't mean we have to buy it.

And how can we avoid a website with ads? We'd have to visit it first to know if it had any to begin with. And I'm perfectly entitled to visit without the ads because it's my right to control what gets downloaded to my machine.

Are you telling me that you never skip commercials or flip to another channel while watching a show on tv? Those advertisers spend thousands to show you those ads, whereas on the internet, the person merely went to google and copied some code into their site for free.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 17:24 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 17:35
Quote: "Oh my, I should immediately turn off the antivirus, I are not entitled to visit sites without the trojans!
Oh my, I should immediately turn off the anti-banner, I are not entitled to visit sites without the pr0n banners!"


First of all, Grow up. If you want to have a sensible discussion stop acting like a child.
Secondly, as I said before, if you don't approve with the way a site deals with their monetization, it doesn't entitle you to view their content for free.

You see the same childish entitlement when it comes to arguments about piracy.
"I don't agree with the $60 price tag for this video game so I'll pirate it instead"

You can't justify it. No matter what argument you come up with you will always be saying: "I wan't to view this content for free because X".


Quote: "Are you telling me that you never skip commercials or flip to another channel while watching a show on tv? Those advertisers spend thousands to show you those ads, whereas on the internet, the person merely went to google and copied some code into their site for free."


I don't watch TV, because 1) There is never anything good on and 2) I don't really want to spend £150 a year on something I'll hardly ever use.
I don't then go and illegally plug my TV into the socket because I feel I'm entitled to watch TV without paying for the license. Instead I opt to not consume the content because I take issue with the license fee.

Quote: "And I'm perfectly entitled to visit without the ads because it's my right to control what gets downloaded to my machine."


You are correct, it is in your right to choose what content is delivered to your machine, that's why you opt not to visit websites that deliver the content you don't want. You however aren't entitled to view that website in the first place.

It isn't a basic human right to watch cats do silly things on YouTube, so if the owners of YouTube wish to pay the bills with a 30 second advert before the video, then I think they should be allowed to, and nothing you can say can justify taking the content for free.



EDIT:

I just want to put another note in here about different methods of monetization. I agree that it would be nice to have the option on some websites to subscribe to that service to bypass the adds.
I would happily do that on YouTube for instance for the channels I frequent.

However, isn't that just another one of those arguments you hear that is similar to other media piracy?

You often here people saying:
"Oh yeah I pirated this game because I can't afford it, but I'll buy it when it becomes cheaper"

I'd put good money on the fact that people who say things like that never buy it and I'd wager that if YouTube started offering subscriptions as an alternative to ads, the majority of people using AdBlock will just continue to use AdBlock.



Also another interesting point about piracy. Who has video game piracy punished in the long run? Has it been the development houses? The publishers? The people who pirate the software? Or has it in fact been the consumers that have been punished because of it? DRM anybody? Wasn't there a thread not long ago about about DRM for HTML5?

Interesting....

TheComet
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 17:38 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 17:39
Quote: "and nothing you can say can justify taking the content for free."


They provide it for free. There's just a lot of garbage in addition to it. As was stated before, nothing can justify anyone else to control what data is loaded on to your device, because it's your device.

The ads on some site require more data transfer than the actual content. If you're on a phone, or if you pay proportionally to the amount of data you transfer, you have every right to filter what you don't want.

Quote: ""I don't agree with the $60 price tag for this video game so I'll pirate it instead""


Blocking ads is not the same as pirating, I don't see how anyone can make that comparison.

Your argument is upside down, because again, the content you want to view is free already, all you're doing is denying specific content.

Besides, blocking ads is legal.

TheComet

BiggAdd
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 17:44
Quote: "Your argument is upside down, because again, the content you want to view is free already. Blocking ads cannot be compared to pirating."


Actually you'll find that your argument is upside down. I wasn't aware we live in a world where servers, bandwidth, human resources and electricity all cost nothing.

You'll find that YouTube isn't free, its only 'free' if you accept the cost of the adverts. Not viewing the adverts is truly accessing the content for free, however it is piracy.

Quote: "They provide it for free. There's just a lot of garbage in addition to it"


Just like supermarkets provide food for free, there is just a lot of garbage in the form of a price tag and security that has to be bypassed in order to get it out of the store.


Quote: "As was stated before, nothing can justify anyone else to control of what data is loaded on to your device, because it's your device."


This is the entitlement coming around again. You are perfectly within your right to control what content is downloaded to your device, but the owners of a website are perfectly within their right to upload whatever content they want to their site.

What you as a consumer have the right to do is to choose whether or not to visit that site.

Legally there isn't a law to prevent you from pirating the media from the webiste (yet), but morally its still incorrect.

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 18:26
Ads really aren't that bad, except for the ones that start playing loud audio when just after a page loading. Those ones are the only reason I have AdBlock installed.


But I do not support this venture AdBlock is attempting. You simply can't have all ads just disappear from the internet, a lot of people use them for income (I know a few bloggers who do).

I think I'll uninstall AdBlock to show I don't support it.

Libervurto
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 18:27
Quote: "Just like supermarkets provide food for free, there is just a lot of garbage in the form of a price tag and security that has to be bypassed in order to get it out of the store."

I think sneaking into a cinema through the side door would be a better analogy. But even that doesn't quite work because you don't pay to access a website. There isn't really an analogy that works.



Formerly OBese87.
PixelF
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 18:59
Quote: "Ads really aren't that bad, except for the ones that start playing loud audio when just after a page loading. Those ones are the only reason I have AdBlock installed.


But I do not support this venture AdBlock is attempting. You simply can't have all ads just disappear from the internet, a lot of people use them for income (I know a few bloggers who do).

I think I'll uninstall AdBlock to show I don't support it. "

I agree. I used to make a steady income with Adsense.... until my account was banned

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TheComet
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 19:03
I also have Adblock installed on my mum's computer so THIS doesn't happen.



mr Handy
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 19:14
@TheComet
According to wise old BiggAdd, this is illegal to deny installation of all those bars!

Also, I don't know why but my anti-troll script suddenly removed BiggAdd's posts. That's odd.

TheComet
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 19:50 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 19:51
Quote: "Also, I don't know why but my anti-troll script suddenly removed BiggAdd's posts. That's odd."


mrHandy! You're pirating! staahp

BiggAdd
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 20:36 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 20:37
Quote: "@TheComet
According to wise old BiggAdd, this is illegal to deny installation of all those bars!

Also, I don't know why but my anti-troll script suddenly removed BiggAdd's posts. That's odd."


Continue trying that tactic mr Handy and you'll find my anti-troll ban button will remove your posts pretty quickly too.

SpyDaniel
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 20:37
I use adblocker, why should I have to sit through 2-4 minute toe nail adverts?
mr Handy
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 22:09
Quote: "I use adblocker, why should I have to sit through 2-4 minute toe nail adverts?"

Because you aren't entitled to visit it without the adverts.

TheComet
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 23:02
Just going to throw it out there, ads fit into three categories for me:

*Wallpaper: Ads that simply do not register due to dullness/blatantly fake ads/irrelevant to my interests,

*CoD Player: As loud as the garden variety XBox Live 12 year old. Load a few tabs of a nice wiki for some casual reading into the backstory of something, then suddenly BOOM, an ad starts playing on one of the myriad tabs I open. I don't listen to it, don't consider the product, I find it and shut it down,

*Movie trailers: I can think of twice that this has actually given me something I care about. More often than not, pre-loader videos on streams chuck up some bull or other that simply gets in the way. No Lynx, I do not care about your Space Program promotion, and your deodorant is the very olfactory essence of teenage desperation. No Grown Ups 2, I don't want to watch a 2 minute collection of fart jokes advertising a 90 minute collection of fart jokes....etc...etc...

All of those are why I got rid of ads and installed AdBlock on my everything. Because I have never bought a product as a result of an internet ad, ever. I continue to buy games, go to the cinema, get toiletries, and I don't get my inspiration from YouTube or banners.

You know what would be cool though? An AI Assistant. A little program that you can grant access to say, your Facebook likes, and it pops up saying stuff like, "Hey, Pacific Rim 2 is coming out in a few months! You liked the first one, right?"

I'd be all, "Oh yeah, tonnes of fun even if it was just dumb fun. I'll see if I can get some friends to come see it."

Or a new Metro game. Or a deal at a local outlet of a restaurant chain. What we have in the internet is a unifying structure, yet ads are still fractures, filleted and scattered all over. They need to organise together, pool resources to create a system that gets their product to the relevant consumer. Something that would be mutually beneficial to supplier and demander.

In essence, where's this Semantic Web I was promised five years ago?
mr Handy
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 23:10 Edited at: 27th Aug 2013 23:22
@TheComet
I totally agree with the article, but the trojans... and nasty pop-ups... hmm... hmm... I think it will be absolutely fair if I will keep my AdBlock always on, but I will put all trusted sites on a whitelist. Like TGC. What do you say?

EDIT: just turned off my AdBlock for TGC... the result:



A video with loud sound. Nice.

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TheComet
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 23:36
Quote: "I totally agree with the article, but the trojans... and nasty pop-ups... hmm... hmm... I think it will be absolutely fair if I will keep my AdBlock always on, but I will put all trusted sites on a whitelist. Like TGC. What do you say?"


Sites I trust or support are whitelisted here too, yeah.

TheComet

The Zoq2
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Posted: 27th Aug 2013 23:57
Quote: "just turned off my AdBlock for TGC... the result:"


That is probably fake, I have never had anything like that happen with TGC and if it did happen, I think we would have heard of it sooner.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 00:10
Here's an idea. How about the designers of sites annoyed by Adblock, code their sites to replace video content with an image requesting a whitelist?

If they can tell that people have AdBlock on for the purposes of calculating revenue, then what's stopping them?
mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 00:23
Quote: "That is probably fake"

No, it is not. It was a random Google Ad post.

The Zoq2
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 00:36
Quote: "If they can tell that people have AdBlock on for the purposes of calculating revenue, then what's stopping them?"


A lot of sites have a message saying "you use adblock, please turn it off" so it is possible, if they want to they could probably block the whole page unless you turn off adblock.

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 00:41 Edited at: 28th Aug 2013 01:10
Some sites block their video streaming if AdBlock is on. It's super effective!

UPDATE: I have found that video ad link in cache, it is the google_TrueViewInStream_Overlay.

the_winch
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 00:50
Quote: "You'll find that YouTube isn't free, its only 'free' if you accept the cost of the adverts. Not viewing the adverts is truly accessing the content for free, however it is piracy."


Complete rubbish. There is nothing in the youtube TOS that requires you to view adverts.

Not surprising really when you think of how something like that could actually work. What are you going to do? make every user sign a contract before they can start viewing videos? That's going to be a popular site.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
Mobiius
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 01:02
Quote: "make every user sign a contract before they can start viewing videos?"

They already do. You have to agree to YouTube's EULA on registering.

TheComet
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 01:07
Quote: "They already do. You have to agree to YouTube's EULA on registering."


This is true.

https://developers.google.com/youtube/terms

II. Prohipitions point 7 states:
Quote: "Your API Client will not, and You will not encourage or create functionality for Your users or other third parties to:

7. modify, replace, interfere with or block advertisements placed by YouTube in the YouTube Data, YouTube audiovisual content, or the YouTube player;"


TheComet

mr Handy
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 01:16
At least this thread made me disable AdBlock for Youtube and TGC.

Jimpo
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 01:51
Quote: "They need to organise together, pool resources to create a system that gets their product to the relevant consumer. Something that would be mutually beneficial to supplier and demander."

This is how the system already works. Internet ads are controlled by a small number of ad exchanges that host a microsecond auction every time you visit a web page. In the instant before your page loads, the ad exchange says it has ad space on an indie game making page being viewed by a young adult male located in this city who has recently searched for pacific rim 2, and all the interested advertisers make a bid for how much they will pay to show you their ad. The whole thing is incredibly creepy if you ask me

Seditious
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 01:57
I have adblock disabled for select sites, for example sites that provide services but don't receive any revenue from products. TGC produce revenue from their products, so I don't see anything wrong with blocking their ads.
Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 05:29 Edited at: 28th Aug 2013 05:33
Quote: "You however aren't entitled to view that website in the first place."


But how do you know which sites contain ads until you've already viewed them? If it exists on the internet, and I have to do no special trickery to see the site other than clicking a link to open it, then I'm entitled to see whatever I want. They made the content publicly viewable, and that's on them. They want to make money for providing content, use a login system with a paid membership so only those who help their business can have the content.

I don't blame you for not watching tv, I don't either. I would enjoy watching Dexter, but even if I wanted to pay for 200 other channels I don't want just to get showtime, my cable provider dropped it anyway. I can't even get it if I wanted. I pay for netflix and that's it. I can live with that.

ionstream
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 07:09
I used to do without Adblock to support the various sites that I go on. The problem is that there is absolutely no vetting process for the kinds of ads that can get in their system. Malicious ads are the easiest way to get a Java or Flash exploit and get a virus on your computer. Some ads try to trick you into downloading spyware/viruses by looking like a big download button. Once users complain, they eventually suspend the offending ad, but only after the damage is done. This has happened to me at least twice now, and a few more attempts have been made as well. Now I whitelist some sites and destroy any Java web plugin as it attempts to get on my system.

TheComet
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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 11:41
Youtube doesn't have the right to deny you access to their website if you block their content, they only have the right to deny you certain services (like ban your account, or remove your videos).

TheComet

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Posted: 28th Aug 2013 12:15 Edited at: 28th Aug 2013 12:17
Quote: "I have adblock disabled for select sites, i.e. sites that provide services but don't receive any revenue from products. TGC produce revenue from their products, so I don't see anything wrong with blocking their ads. "

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I disable ad-block on here because I use this forum a lot and want to support its upkeep in some fashion. I haven't bought any TGC products for over eight years, so I haven't been supporting them in that way. I don't think the fact other people buy their products entitles me to use the forum for free, that's the same argument as the "drop in the ocean" fallacy I mentioned before. However, if you have recently purchased something from TGC then I think you are entitled to block the ads.

PS: Since I installed the DoNotTrackMe add-on for firefox, I don't get ads on here any more. I don't like the idea of google spying on me, but is that the only way of supporting ads? I have attached a screen capture of the DoNotTrackMe window, what do Google Adsense, Google Analytics and AddThis actually do?



Formerly OBese87.

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