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FPSC Classic Work In Progress / [LOCKED] Lyonian Warfare is cancelled

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Lyonia Games
6
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Feb 2012
Location: Mostar,Bosnia and Herzegowina
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 00:29
Dear users


After many considerations,I have decided to cancel Lyonian Warfare.There are a few reasons why I have decided to do this and in the following I will explain my decision.

I have to thank every single one of you who have in any way helped push this project,You have given me hope that I can do something extraordinary.

Reason I will quit this project is the limited nature of FPSC which was criticized by every non-fpsc user (publisher,critic,users9.They especially hated the Ai who seemed like it had issues with their mental development (quoting)

I will remain on the forums and support other users in making games in FPSC,but probably won't ever use FPSC

Good luck to you all and once again thanks to all.

CEO & co-founder of Lyonia Games

Miran Kohnić

Lyonia 4 Life
KeithC
Senior Moderator
12
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 18:39
You should hold on, and check out Reloaded for your needs. Beta isn't too far off now, I believe.

-Keith

Lyonia Games
6
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Joined: 8th Feb 2012
Location: Mostar,Bosnia and Herzegowina
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 20:21
I'm currently low on cash because my college is so expensive (even though I work),but will look forward to reloaded

Lyonia 4 Life
uman
13
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 20:31 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2013 20:36
Clearly FPSC Character AI was/is not the best but better than other engines in its class which are well largely none existent out of the box.

Mentally retarded AI- not going into why as that another whole subject. In fact there are some decent scripts that can be used or adapted for reasonable basic fighting scenarios but limited in many other scenarios. Whatever can't blame you there as no matter what you do you wont make classic AI behaviours top of the range granted - more suitable for the position of the engine in the market which is why you have had problems no doubt.

Sorry to see it did not work for you. You are not alone.

A lot hangs on Reloaded for changing things here for users, some of those no doubt in your position.

Reloaded AI well we don't know how different that will eventually be in real game making and publishing scenarios. You may well not get full feedback on that in Alpha, Beta releases - who knows.

Clearly Shooter = AI the bottom line so a lot hangs on that.

I would hope that Reloaded AI will actually function in game better that classic Characters AI but I am not sure and have some doubt it will be as good as expected by some or of a highly commercial level of quality.

Don't give up you will have plenty of time to make a better game in future when things get better for you and the experience you had with FPSC will serve you well.



There are those that said this day would never come. What have they to say now?
Lyonia Games
6
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Joined: 8th Feb 2012
Location: Mostar,Bosnia and Herzegowina
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 20:41
I agree!Saying such things is idiotic.How can an Ai be mentally retarded,it's AI for God sakes.

And of course the AI was the biggest issue ever.Maps were decent,but AI was kind of ruining my whole work and sinking it deep.

I truly hope that Reloaded will be better,much better.

Lyonia 4 Life
Wolf
10
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Joined: 8th Nov 2007
Location: Luxemburg
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 22:49 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2013 22:49
Honestly, you didnt even touch FPSC's limitations in your project so I dont see how that stopped you from continuing?

But well! Its your decision

Also: This is a lyonia:



How can it have warfare?



-Wolf

http://www.serygalacaffeine.com
"absurdity has become necessity"
uman
13
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 23:29
With FPSC you do have to be selective in your AI script use in relation to the scenario and it helps if you build your levels accordingly to help the AI look good. Also helps of you can script a and maybe update the stock AI scripts a little.

There are a lot of things that can affect AI behaviours too which as said is too much to go into here. Experience of what does affect AI behaviours badly will help.

FPSC AI is basic and not super thinking intelligent behaviour so you must help the AI to appear to better than it is. Not easy I accept.

I am no expert but always found the most difficult issues to be performance and stability of engine, physics and collision and bad scripts to have more influence of on AI behaviour than a scripts AI itself. The former things often having a big effect resulting in bad or erratic AI behaviours.

I always only used a relatively few scripts for attacking enemies myself which I found to be quite good whereas many others not so.

Obviously FPSC AI is not designed to be of human intelligence level so on close examination it wont look too good. Thats why you have to design to accommodate that.

Its actually easier to make best of it in outdoor levels rather than in close proximity for presumably obvious reasons.

If you don't design levels to make best use of it then the player could clearly kill every enemy he encounters without ever taking a hit at all unless an enemy fire rate prevents the player from even getting much of a shot in which is possible.

A balance of all things is needed. You just cant build a game and its levels just as you wish and expect AI to utilise that space as a human can. They cant outwit you so you have to help them look good.

At the end of the day FPSC AI is limited and you have to accept that.

There are those that said this day would never come. What have they to say now?
Ertlov
11
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Joined: 18th Jan 2007
Location: Austria
Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 00:51
If you make a proper level layout, decent waypoint paths, if you get your hands dirty by scripting your own DarkAI and if you limit the active AIs to 2-3 at a time, you can get better results than Metro 2033.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.indiedb.com/games/into-the-dark
Lyonia Games
6
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Joined: 8th Feb 2012
Location: Mostar,Bosnia and Herzegowina
Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 19:09
@Wolf

You haven't seen the new levels I made recently and BTW Lyonia was also a closed political group formed in Lyon,France during the 90's and had a goal to create a socialist system in an utopical country.You see the reason why it failed to live.

@Ertlov

I was thinking about that,but figured out that ''the public'' is too much into mainstream gaming rather than indieso everything I would do would still be bad to them

@uman

Thank you for your support!

Lyonia 4 Life
Lyonia Games
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Location: Mostar,Bosnia and Herzegowina
Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 20:19
BIG UPDATE

Found an awesome AI enemy script.Hope there is still hope for us

Lyonia 4 Life
uman
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 23:20 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 23:34
Here's one example of decent AI and using only stock scripts.

If you look at the scenario this is the enemy - the player is located somewhere on the opposite side of the level on top of a roof of another building or elsewhere anywhere the enemy can see the player - does not matter where - anywhere in a level the player can be seen and and at any distance from the enemy shown - full 40 tile world distance apart if you like. The enemy will even shoot the player if the player is at street level if the enemy has a line of sight and can see the player.

Due to the combination of scripts, weapons and settings in the enemy properties. The enemy will shoot the player immediately on sight at any range. No waiting, no standing doing nothing he's just a killing machine. With a high fire rate the enemy will destroy the players health at an enormous rate. You need turn it down a bit

If you notice the roof top duct near the enemy. He will use this and his AI apparently to his advantage. He has no path but because he has the cautious script in the combination, simply moves behind or around the duct from side to side you as the player moves position so you never know where he will pop out. If he loses sight of the player he will move to the other side of the duct and so on it goes.

Notice the other settings like the enemy speed = 200. Increase the enemy cone angle much higher if you want him to see the player at greater angles.

A difficult enemy to kill unless you use cover to advantage and so on.

I use similar combinations some using edited stock scripts and others to advantage where enemies will always attack aggressively on player sight at any range across the whole world distance one end of a level to another. If they can see you they will shoot you or if the scripts dictate will move closer before attack or follow the player anywhere they are able to move to and attack.

This with nothing more that default stock AI.

Not the best AI in the world but set up right you wont have a chance to actually see much of whats going on unless you have enough health to allow you to stop and watch. Out in the open you will die.

If you want enemies to shoot you from great distance then you must give them the correct scripts and weapons with gun ranges great enough for them to do so. Give them a Tavor if you don't know what else to them to use. Not sure if gunspecs weapon ranges have changed so they may need checking



There are those that said this day would never come. What have they to say now?

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Lyonia Games
6
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Joined: 8th Feb 2012
Location: Mostar,Bosnia and Herzegowina
Posted: 24th Sep 2013 22:31
And what about indoor levels,any tips there?

Lyonia 4 Life
Wolf
10
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Joined: 8th Nov 2007
Location: Luxemburg
Posted: 24th Sep 2013 23:37
Good spawn points and AI adapted to the situation. Never have enemies just stand around in a map, you always have to make some scene once the player activates a triggerzone. Call of duty is not much different, by the way.

http://www.serygalacaffeine.com
"absurdity has become necessity"
Lyonia Games
6
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Joined: 8th Feb 2012
Location: Mostar,Bosnia and Herzegowina
Posted: 3rd Nov 2013 18:49
Mod,please delete the thread!

Lyonia 4 Life
KeithC
Senior Moderator
12
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 4th Nov 2013 02:24
We don't delete threads that may have valuable info in them; so here's a lock instead.

-Keith

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