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Geek Culture / Do we need a discrete sound cards?

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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 02:00
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Hello, forum fellows! Do we need a discrete sound cards? What PROs and CONs? If yes, what audio speakers do we need for a discrete sound card? Some people say that there is no sense to buy such card becasue integrated sound card do same sound. Honestly, I don't believe them, but dunno why.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 02:16
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Those people often run their sound through some cheap speaker system; so it doesn't matter what sound hardware they have, it all sounds the same.

If you buy a set of Bose headphones and a set of Sony headphones, it is only after listening to the Bose headsets that you realize the Sony ones are rubbish. I do not even like Beats Audio headphones. As for speakers, if you install £100 sound hardware and plugin some £40 set of Logitech speakers, you are not going to hear much of a difference.

Onboard sound-cards have improved dramatically, audio processors (yes there is are sound cards with processors on them) are much cheaper and smaller than they used to be and are found on some onboard solutions. These processors are mostly beneficial for DJs, music producers or pod casters; they record, run DSP effects and digitally equalize audio in realtime without chopping and skipping.

High signal to noise ratio is another thing, but the average gamer is not going to complain about noisy, fuzzy audio input; a professional game in a tournament would more likely want to hear what the other team members are talking about without fuzzy noisy feedback and echos in the microphone channel throughput.

In summary, you do not need a discrete sound card to enjoy a good video game or movie; but you will need one for creative means, live performances or professional activities.

There are some audiophiles out there who just want to hear everything; the low frequencies and the intricate details in the hi bands, the stuff you can't hear in common speakers via common sound cards.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 02:23
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And what about EAX support?

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 03:35 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 03:38
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My cheap onboard soundcard has EAX support. That was a big thing Creative brought out to bring DSP into the gaming world; not as popular as it used to be because of MP3 / OGG; sound files are so small now that reverb effects can be mixed and pre-processed artistically instead of unrealistically auto-processed in real time with EAX.

It is basically a sound reverberation library; you can implementing in DBPRO using the enhancements plugin, but the support for it needs to be self-managed; IE: I am not sure what happens when there is no support for it; maybe your game will crash? who knows...

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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 04:18
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Some games have different versions of EAX support, afair Heavy Metal Fakk 2 have some higher level EAX modes that I can't choose. But discrete sound card support them. Also I believe some games gain FPS due to hardware reverberation effects.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 05:00
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Integrated sound cards are much better than they used to be, and for most people will get the job done. But if you have a nice set of speakers (not cheap ones built into your monitor) then you might perhaps get better sound from a quality discrete card.

Bottom line is, average user it's not going to matter. But if you have higher quality equipment, keep all the components high quality otherwise it's pointless.

I have an audigy 2 zs platinum, but for some reason it's not being detected in my current computer. I just use built-in sound rather than fuss with it.

http://zimnox.com
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Van B
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 13:07
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It used to make a difference, but these days onboard sound is much better than it used to be.

Personally, I use USB headphones - with 3 computers in a row, having speakers on them is just a pain, so we use headsets these days - Neighbors probably think we're dead.

I am the one who knocks...
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DevilLiger
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 13:15 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 13:16
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I used to not care until one day started to because all my games didn't wasn't very fun for some reason. Plus other things like FL studio which played my midi keyboard very slow. I'm more of an audiophile I think. right now I'm running on a HT Omega Claro XT with some logitech headset and soon to have an Audio-Technica ATH-M50 because everytime I make some music on anything right now sounds different on every speaker and headset. So I'm hoping the new headset will help me a lot. whenever I played FPS games I can hear the shotguns very well and snipers have a great sound to them. It's just me but if you don't really care for things like that you're better off with what you already have.
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Van B
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 14:04
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Yeah, there are certainly options for audiophiles who are prepared to spend money. Like, if you spend >£100 on speakers or a headset, then paying an extra £30 and getting a dedicated sound card as well will make a big difference. I think the main thing is that onboard sound can be a bit distorted, interference, really the things that general users might not notice, but would sound like nails on a chalk board to an audiophile.

Also, never use the front USB or jacks for audio - use the ones at the back that are on the actual motherboard, less distortion etc that way as it doesn't have to go through cheap motherboard wires and things that can cause interference.

I am the one who knocks...
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Wolf
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 14:57 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 14:58
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You only need one if you have fitting audiogear (speakers/surround system/headphones) or if you do anything music related. If you operate a "normal" Stereo/2.1 Soundsystem you won't need or even notice it if you have a somewhat decent onboard chip.

It is important that you check (1) if the soundcard fits in your computer (I recently had one that was nearly as big as my graphics card) and (2) if there is decent driver support. I dont know why, but soundcards can be a pain in the backside to get them to run properly and a lot of manufacturers will either only release one or two hotfixes or drop support altogether once they pump out a newer model. Just take a look at some forum posts to see if people have issues with the thing.

I have an asus xonar D2 which refuses to run on my system so I'm on my onboard chip now too.

Quote: "And what about EAX support?"


Its often done artifically these days and I must admit that I only played 3 or so games with decent EAX support. The majority had either glitchy sound (very "fake" sound "enhancments", environment louder than voiceovers, echos where there shouldn't be any, clicking and the all time popular: missing sounds.) or suddenly stopped playing environment sounds and only kept the music running.
Its likely that its better now since I dont bother with EAX anymore...too much frustration in the past.



-Wolf

http://www.serygalacaffeine.com
"absurdity has become necessity"
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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 15:46 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 15:49
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Quote: ">£100 on speakers"

Prices are vary in different countries. What speakers model or brand minimum worth buying a discrete card?

Quote: "Its often done artifically these days and I must admit that I only played 3 or so games with decent EAX support. The majority had either glitchy sound (very "fake" sound "enhancments", environment louder than voiceovers, echos where there shouldn't be any, clicking and the all time popular: missing sounds.) or suddenly stopped playing environment sounds and only kept the music running."

I heard that good dicrete card has no problems with EAX, that problems are for onboard chips.

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Van B
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 16:47 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 16:50
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Well, £100 or $160 should get anyone a decent set of PC speakers, but like Creative Labs sorta standard, probably borderline whether or not getting a dedicated card would make a worthwhile difference.

If you spend more on a set of Bose (for example) speakers, or you connect to proper sound equipment, amplifier etc - then a dedicated card is a good investment. The best setup I had was some studio speakers and a basic hifi amp... PC audio equipment has a habit of cutting corners, or exaggerating power and quality just because it's for a PC. I guess it's a bit like car audio in that regard... like you'd go buy 120w RMS speakers for your car, 80w RMS speakers for your PC, and both would sound terrible compared to 30w RMS speakers on your hi-fi. For sound quality for example, I would rather have my little Bose in-ear phones than any PC speaker set... so much detail is lost on sub-par PC speakers. If your not spending £100/$160, then don't waste money on a dedicated card, it'd be a waste - a dedicated card should be there to make your expensive and proper audio equipment sound it's best... it's not for the £40 Creative 2.1 chocolate speaker sets. I'd say that if you only have £50/$75 to spend, get a USB headset if you can - speakers at that price range are invariably fricken horrible and won't benefit from dedicated hardware... no expensive audio equipment can make them sound like anything more than cheap speakers.

I am the one who knocks...
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Phaelax
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 17:08
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I think Bose are highly overrated. But I've also tried several "high-end" brands (for pc speakers) from the store and didn't like any one them. Like in the $200-300 range for pc speakers I expected higher quality than what I've found. Honestly, the best pc speakers I've had were a set of Boston Acoustics which you could only get with the purchase of a Gateway.

http://zimnox.com
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mr Handy
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 17:14 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 23:32
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I am planning to buy 2.1 speakers Edifier C2:

update: is it good? is it need discrete card?



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bitJericho
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 23:47 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 23:47
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i have panasonic sb-150a speakers. They are awesome!

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Wolf
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Posted: 24th Sep 2013 01:34 Edited at: 24th Sep 2013 01:34
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Quote: "I heard that good dicrete card has no problems with EAX, that problems are for onboard chips."


I only had these on when I was still running my sound card. 2 different soundcards on different systems. This is only my experience of course. I hope you have a better one if you chose to buy good audiogear.

As for that 2.1 soundsystem. Its okay but you dont need a soundcard for that if you have a decent chip



-Wolf

http://www.serygalacaffeine.com
"absurdity has become necessity"
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Phaelax
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Posted: 24th Sep 2013 02:12
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The other day I was just looking at these speakers I've been considering buying. They might look big, but they're smaller than the old 90s boombox I've been using for speakers.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?loudspeakers=swan-active-desktop-sound&p=swan-m200mkii-active-desktop-loudspeaker-system&cPath=21_24&products_id=184&

http://zimnox.com
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mr Handy
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Posted: 24th Sep 2013 02:27
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Quote: " if you have a decent chip"

what chip is decent?

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Wolf
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Posted: 24th Sep 2013 02:30
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Quote: "what chip is decent?
"


Its a broad generalisation, but: good board, good chip.
What motherboard do you have?



-Wolf

http://www.serygalacaffeine.com
"absurdity has become necessity"
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mr Handy
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Posted: 24th Sep 2013 13:09 Edited at: 24th Sep 2013 13:12
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Old Gigabyte for P4, codec is ALC883

Edit: of course this is outdated, I will buy a new on soon.

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Wolf
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Posted: 24th Sep 2013 19:11 Edited at: 24th Sep 2013 19:13
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If you stick with it, you will get better quality from a soundcard. Yes. (Here I assume by P4 you mean Pentium 4?)

If you buy a new one, you will likely not need a soundcard tough. I'd say its best if you try your new mainboards chip and if you are statisfied with the sound, stick with it.



-Wolf

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"absurdity has become necessity"
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