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Geek Culture / I'm Lost

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Robert F
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 14:31
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So, I'm only 21 but I'm already completely lost in life I think. I hate working low class bottom of the barrel jobs, which is all I've done my entire life. From manufacturing, to retail, they all suck and take up all your time for the lowest wages that you can't even live on where I live. There's always the option of staying there for 50+ years and make a decent living, but I'm honestly I don't think I could ever accomplish that. I screwed up when I didn't go to college out of high school. Everybody pushed it on me and at the time and I thought it was really just the biggest money scam out there (I still do but I'll save that for another post).

I've always had dreams of running my own business, game designing, web designing, modeling, building, being an electrician or something like those. Just never imagined I'd be stuck in the low jobs forever. I know I'm only 21 and I have lots of time, but I also know that time flies, and before I know it, I'll be 30 or 40 in the same spot. Both my parents have worked in factories their entire lives and seem to like it I guess. They think making $50,000 a year is just great. Not me, I know there's way better options out there. My buddy is 23, just went to a truck driving school for literally one month and is making 50k right now in his first job. My parents have worked 20 years to achieve that! I don't want to be just the average citizen and average worker. I have dreams of making $70,000+ a year, not 15k or 20k which is where I am stuck at the moment.

Anyone have any suggestions to help me out?

~Fps Creator since 2008~
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Quik
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 15:54
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"It doesn't interest me what you do for a living. I want to know what you ache for - and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing. It doesn't interest me how old you are. I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool - for love - for your dreams - for the adventure of being alive."

My first question would be: Is there anything you really burn for? Is there anything you'd rather do, for a living than anything else?
Start there, then go to school - or learn that area of expertise yourself and work towards it.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 16:25 Edited at: 24th Feb 2015 16:39
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Quote: "Everybody pushed it on me and at the time and I thought it was really just the biggest money scam out there (I still do but I'll save that for another post)."


Just imagine being in this boat with 50k in student loans. You're damn smart passing up the college train.

That said, a trade school is *not* a waste of money. Taking trucking for $3k for a month would be an incredibly good investment. I know someone who took welding for $3k and is now qualified enough to take an entry level 20-30k welding job, but once you have a year or two of experience, then you can start asking for more money or go do your own thing. Everybody has to start at the bottom and work up though. Imagine going to a 2 year tech school for welding, you'd be in for like $20k!

If you're a programmer now's the time to sit down with a real (as in there are paying jobs) programming language like c# or java and learn it. Good luck.

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Robert F
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 16:57
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Quote: "My first question would be: Is there anything you really burn for? Is there anything you'd rather do, for a living than anything else?
Start there, then go to school - or learn that area of expertise yourself and work towards it."


There are lots of things that really interest me. The thing is most if not all of my interests take 8 year degrees...and I'm not willing to do that, or accumulate all that debt. I'm currently not the most educated person on earth, but I KNOW I can work hard. I know if someone gave me an opportunity I would succeed.

I'm not trying to be arrogant either. It's just that I know people that go to universities, and I know people who do make a good living...and honestly they're not all that bright nor do they work that hard. They're just big talkers for the most part.

Every job I've ever worked, I've always been told I'm an excellent worker, and that I'm smart and efficient. I know I can kill most jobs out there if I just had a chance at them.

Quote: "Just imagine being in this boat with 50k in student loans. You're damn smart passing up the college train.

That said, a trade school is *not* a waste of money. Taking trucking for $3k for a month would be an incredibly good investment. I know someone who took welding for $3k and is now qualified enough to take an entry level 20-30k welding job, but once you have a year or two of experience, then you can start asking for more money or go do your own thing. Everybody has to start at the bottom and work up though.

If you're a programmer now's the time to sit down with a real (as in there are paying jobs) programming language like c# or java and learn it. Good luck."


Yeah and you wouldn't believe how many people call me dumb for doing that! I really don't think I need college. I'm big on doing my own research on a lot of stuff. I'd say I'm a huge diy-er.

I definitely agree that learning a trade is a great thing though. Not only will it save you a ton of money, but you can still have a chance at the upper salaries if you put your mind to it. I also agree with the starting at the bottom part too, but my problem is that people pressure me to start at the very-very bottom. I try to explain to everybody that there are different types of bottoms. There is the McDonald's bottom, and using your example, the welding bottom. The pay is much different, as well as the opportunities to move up.

As for the programming part, I'm looking for a team of developers, because I really want to kick out some Android & iPhone games soon!

But I guess I'm going to look into going to a tech school, specifically for something to do with electronics, or even robots in general.

~Fps Creator since 2008~
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Indicium
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 17:47
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If you're wanting to get into the development side of things, maybe freelance work could be a good start? There's sites such as these which may be what you're looking for.

http://www.peopleperhour.com/
https://www.freelancer.co.uk/
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Van B
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 17:55
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Computing degrees are less and less useful - there is no longer that 'guarantee' that a degree will land you in a good job. For example I'm currently on a MS cert course with 3 people who have degrees and are currently working for minimum wage, installing PC's and first level support. I kinda feel lucky to be in the position I'm in after talking with those miserable sods.

Knowledge is not enough, to get anywhere in IT you have to have good interpersonal skills too, and a positive outlook, and not creep folk out with talk of Game of Thrones etc. Consider what is on your CV and what anyone looking at it is looking for - being an IT geek is a given, only list relevant or completely irrelevant activities on your CV - don't mention gaming at all, because there are too many assumptions derived from that. Try and give the impression that your a normal healthy active person who won't just sit on YouTube or games all day.

I would suggest looking for a startup company that needs an IT guy who will work for a 'not great' salary. Because at least then you can move up, you can justify yourself and often it just takes 1 good decision, or 1 time-saving change to promote the idea that you deserve better money. When you can get entangled in the IT infrastructure, then any small company will have a nightmare untangling you from it - become personally invested in the quality of the service you provide, and things should get better. Try to do everything at a minimal cost and be prepared to work crazy hours to proove your point, because job security in this field is about as rare as chicken teeth.

An actual career in IT is difficult to aquire, and a lot of people don't get that, a lot of people consider IT support to be a disposable commodity, and that's what you have to change. Be an integrated and beneficial asset to the company, not the guy who just fixes the puters and procrastinates.

I am the one who knocks...
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MrValentine
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 17:58 Edited at: 24th Feb 2015 18:11
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[EDIT]

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Robert F
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 18:12
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Quote: "If you're wanting to get into the development side of things, maybe freelance work could be a good start? There's sites such as these which may be what you're looking for.
"


I'll take a look at them thank you!

Quote: "Van B"


The problem is that every job I have ever seen with anything to do with IT requires a degree of four years or more. What am I supposed to do, lie on my resume? That's what I mean, I know if I could get a shot, I could get the job. The problem is my application just gets thrown right away because I don't have the "necessary" training. Even if I took the time to learn every single thing about the job and am the best candidate possible, they don't give a hoot because I don't have a degree. Why should I have to pay to get ahead in life, especially in the thousands of dollars range.

I live in a small town of 20,000 people, with hardly any jobs. The median salary for this town is 13,000. It feels like there is no way out. There are NO tech jobs here. There's no science being done here, no research, no improving the community, tbh I'd say almost half the citizens of this town are on welfare and food stamps and don't give a hoot about working. The only jobs are manufacturing and retail and that's literally it besides a doctor, firefighter, police etc.. I've always wanted to start my own business, but then I look at the town, and what money do they even have to buy into my business. If the average salary is 13,000 here, how are they going to buy anything!?

~Fps Creator since 2008~
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Indicium
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 18:22
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Quote: "Computing degrees are less and less useful - there is no longer that 'guarantee' that a degree will land you in a good job."


Really? Should I be regretting being half way through my CompSci degree around about now then?
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Van B
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 20:27
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Quote: "I'm currently on a MS cert course with 3 people who have degrees and are currently working for minimum wage, installing PC's and first level support"


Of course not - but you won't know until you try and get a good job... its purely geographical - I mean are you prepared to move for the right job, or prepared to commute everyday. I don't want to sound negative, but consider how many people out there with degree's are struggling to find decent work. With any luck things will be better in a couple of years by the time you've finished your degree. Anything you can do to get experience in dealing with people professionally will be useful - its what employers are looking for and it would raise your resume above the other applicants.

I am the one who knocks...
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Dar13
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Posted: 24th Feb 2015 21:24
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Quote: " Really? Should I be regretting being half way through my CompSci degree around about now then? "

Nah, CS degrees are on a different level than most IT degrees and certifications. You might have to move around to get jobs, but jobs exist for CS majors. I would definitely try to get internships while you're in school though.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 25th Feb 2015 22:42 Edited at: 25th Feb 2015 22:45
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Focus on doing what you enjoy in your spare time, If you do not do what you enjoy doing, then you will have a hard life. For most of us, what we enjoy will not pay the rent, hence it needs to be done in your spare time; putting work and education first.

Learning new skills and gaining experience at work/college as advised above will keep food on the table; preparing you for the rainy days.

Plan ahead to make the most of your spare time to prepare your business plans, develop games or what ever it is you enjoy; eventually your sideline will end up being your main job. It sounds simple yet many miss the point that a great deal of coorporations and franchises started from a hobby.

Doing your thing on a regular basis makes you more skilled and time effecient; what required 10 hours at one point in your life, ends up taking 1 hour when you get good; leaving you with more time to enjoy yourself.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 26th Feb 2015 11:21
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All I took from your post was the amount of money you'd be earning. I may have misinterpreted what you were trying to say, but it looked very money oriented. If money is your goal, you'll never be happy.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Feb 2015 13:27
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Quote: "If money is your goal, you'll never be happy. "


^ This = Truth

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Wolf
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Posted: 26th Feb 2015 13:37
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Depends on you Rob.
You're a young male in a civilised, free country...you are free to do anything you wish so do it.

Quote: "I'd say I'm a huge diy-er. "


Oh yeah? Than what exactly is your question?

Look, you have some soulsearching to do...find out what is your passion in live, what has always interested you, what career did you always want? Then you figure out how to achieve that and how profitable it is.

Quote: " game designing, web designing, modeling, building, being an electrician"


Hmm! Wide range of selection. You shouldn't aim for the prestige you get for running your own business or you'll never achieve it, you should aim for what the business you want to run does.

Think about these businesses that interest you. If you think game design is for you, you have to ask yourself if you really want to be working on a medium that is mostly perceived as "for teenagers" when you are in your late 30s. 40s...your 50s. I for one would not want to work in that industry at that age. That is my honest opinion. Can you find your own niche or keep up with the quality standarts?

Web design is a dead/alive market. Its dead for many freelancers as the market is swamepd with competition yet very alive if you can set yourself apart in both quality and speed aswell as customer orientation. This is a hard business to partake in and you must keep in mind that you will sit in front of a computer...a lot.

modeling what?

Building and being in an electrician requires a tremendous amount of seed capital and if you want to raise your own empire you are no longer working 8 hours a day but easily 12 at first.

You can do it buy you also have to pay the price.

Here is a website about that sort of thing. I personally don't like his style but it has a certain motivational effect on young men.



-Wolf

"If the mods didn’t see it, I didn’t do it!" - Rick Bamber
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 26th Feb 2015 15:25
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Quote: "If money is your goal, you'll never be happy."


That is my opinion aswell, I would much rather work with something I enjoy for a bit of money than something I hate for tons of money. But I can also see why you would go the other way and work hard with something you tolerate but that pays really well, and then enjoy life outside work. The best option is of course to find something that you enjoy AND that pays well

Say ONE stupid thing and it ends up as a forum signature forever. - Neuro Fuzzy
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Thraxas
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 09:17
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Quote: "work hard with something you tolerate but that pays really well, and then enjoy life outside work"


One of my friends with a very high paying job, doesn't have a life outside of work. That's why he gets the big money, because he's always having to work. He has a lot of nice things he never gets to enjoy, in a very big house he only sleeps in.
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 10:20
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Quote: "I've always had dreams of running my own business, game designing, web designing, modeling, building, being an electrician or something like those"


This is what you should focus on. Have you sent a portfolio to game companies? Have you thought about being an apprentice electrician?

As others have said, if your life goal is to make big money, then thats not going to make you happy.
What makes you happy is doing a job you enjoy, and often times you can find yourself making that money in the years to come.

If you are doing a job you enjoy you are going to spend time getting better at it and work hard, and thats what gets you noticed.


If you haven't got a portfolio of models you could send to companies, then you need to dedicate as much time as possible to building one up, which shouldn't be hard if you enjoy it!

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baxslash
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 10:27
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My Dad once told me to choose a job that is also your hobby and you'll always be happy (no matter how much you earn). I've done a lot of jobs I fancied as hobby's; Blacksmith, Games/Software Developer, Architectural Technician and yes even working in a bar (I only had one hobby back then). I've always enjoyed my work and have succeeded because I'm passionate about what I do. Might seem like I'm not sure what I want but I'm just following my heart.

I don't have any degrees (a couple of qualifications but not much) but I work hard and try to be professional.

If you love your job it shows and is appreciated, so look for a hobby that you can get paid for. That's all the advice I can give (and I'll tell my 3 boys the same thing).

Good luck!


Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Fuzz
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 10:56
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I know how you feel and I feel the same. I turn 21 in a few days and I'm currently out of work and finding it hard to find more. I've worked a few jobs since high school (Bakery, child carer, EB Games, Teacher's Assistant, Grounds Keeper) and I was working at my old primary school until the start of the year when teachers and employees were let go because of the government budget cuts.

I didn't really enjoy any of my jobs to much other than EB Games and I've never been fired, just worked a guaranteed time or quit. My passion is game development and writing and I really want to make a living doing both but I'm finding it really hard. I'm working on a game with a team at the moment which is going pretty well but the others in my team are a lot less focused than I am and writing a whole story takes a lot of time.

A lot of my friends and my younger brother are at university but I don't want that kind of debt and there's nothing where I live that I want to study. It's tough!

Good luck to you, though!

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Matty H
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 11:28
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Quote: "All I took from your post was the amount of money you'd be earning. I may have misinterpreted what you were trying to say, but it looked very money oriented. If money is your goal, you'll never be happy. "


I was going to post this but you did it already

That said, all of my friends talk about how much they earn, what they could be earning in a few years etc etc... I am definitely the odd one out since I do what I do because I love it, and I'm not really making much money, but things are improving slowly in that respect.

It's just a simple fact that for a lot of people the number comes first and it does not really matter what they are doing, they don't care. So we should not be too hard on Robert F for thinking in those terms, it's kind of built into the system

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Dark Java Dude 64
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The saying where I come from: Do something you love, and you won't work a day in your life. A happy poor person is happy, while a rich sad person is sad.

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Robert F
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 16:38
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I agree with most of what you guys are saying. I need to find a hobby I can make a profession out of.

Although I never have agreed about the money part. I love making money. It DOES make me happy. The feeling the hard work I put into whatever, paid off...ya can't beat it.

~Fps Creator since 2008~
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Wolf
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 16:47 Edited at: 27th Feb 2015 16:48
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I can't blame you! I'm not an entrepreneur money spirit myself but of course I enjoy a good paycheck. Our point is that you should not prostitute yourself for something that pays and suddenly realize that you have squandered your youth. My personal goal is to do something that helps the people around me and pays well which is why I chose psychology. Construction and electricians are a constructive field aswell that also pays.

Look, I'm in my mid 20s but many of the others that posted here are well around their 40s... they have a sense of what they talk about and its worthy advise in here...you like to work and earn so you only need the guts to go out and work and earn for yourself.



-Wolf

"If the mods didn’t see it, I didn’t do it!" - Rick Bamber
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Van B
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Reality check though guys... how many people actually get to enjoy their job by a quantifiable amount?

I prefer to see my job as the thing I do to be able to do the things that actually make me happy... like buy waffles and go overboard on Steam sales and have an awesome hardware setup. I like my job when I get to do the parts of my job that I enjoy, like project development - and really if you enjoy 20% of your work then you are doing great IMO because a task that you enjoy is worth so much more than one you don't. You might not know right away how much of a job you will enjoy, you might even have to fight for and justify the tasks you like doing.
Excel is a good example, because millions of people use a fraction of the features, and if you have good Excel skills then you can always help people, and its a great way to develop professional relationships and easily save people time and improving the quality of their work - it all helps with job security and advancement... get other people appreciating you and it can be a different world - that's really where any job satisfaction in IT is, people actually recognizing it as something more than a necessary evil, or a disposable commodity. The best possible position to be in is to have people fight for your time.

Even first level support people find parts of their job that they enjoy, I wouldn't necessarily opt for that myself, I'd always advise people to look for smaller companies that can appreciate good IT services and hopefully allow for some interesting projects. Really I'd say jump on any job that pays you enough to get by, your young, and having a job makes it far easier to find a job - My first job was packing root vegetables for about £3 per hour... nobody starts out in their ideal job, but you have to start somewhere.

Plus, you'll always find time to develop projects, you only really need 6 hours sleep at your age anyway

I am the one who knocks...
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Wolf
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 19:19
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Quote: "My first job was packing root vegetables for about £3 per hour"


Mine was logging ... I actually recommend it! Its sobering to do it for a year or so. Makes one complain less.

Quote: "Reality check though guys... how many people actually get to enjoy their job by a quantifiable amount?"


True! But he is young and eager and building your own business as an electrician or similar is a reasonable goal.



-Wolf

"If the mods didn’t see it, I didn’t do it!" - Rick Bamber
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MrValentine
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Posted: 27th Feb 2015 22:08
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Quote: "The feeling the hard work I put into whatever, paid off...ya can't beat it."


If what you mean there is, getting paid for hard work cannot be beaten, I can assure you I can think of a boat load of things that give a greater sensation than money ever can...

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Wolf
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 01:46
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Quote: "If what you mean there is, getting paid for hard work cannot be beaten, I can assure you I can think of a boat load of things that give a greater sensation than money ever can..."


I can think of 25 from the top of my head... heck! you could lobotomise me and I'd still come up with 8. However he is talking about his career choices and nothing else and earning seems to be his motivation to work and I think thats fairly normal.



-Wolf

"If the mods didn’t see it, I didn’t do it!" - Rick Bamber
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Robert F
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 06:44
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I just want to make enough money at the moment to live on, while I'm still enjoying my youth, that's all.

~Fps Creator since 2008~
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 28th Feb 2015 19:36 Edited at: 28th Feb 2015 19:37
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Quote: "Although I never have agreed about the money part. I love making money. It DOES make me happy. The feeling the hard work I put into whatever, paid off...ya can't beat it."
Sure, everyone loves making money. What is it you want to do with that money? If you really do get all of the money you want, it won't be long before you've had it all and done it all. If money and materialistic possessions are what you're after with money, what else will life have to offer you then?

I read an interesting statistic once, there is indeed a certain amount of money that leads to the most happiness. Here in the US, it's about 70 thousand a year for a regular family. Make any less, and money may be tight; make any more, and the work required to get said money may be too much.

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Robert F
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 01:54
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It's not the materialistic things I want. It's to be able to live comfortably without working, and that usually takes a lot of money.

~Fps Creator since 2008~
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2015 02:08 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2015 02:14
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Quote: "It's to be able to live comfortably without working, and that usually takes a lot of money."
Ahhhhhhh I understand now. "Without Working" so, do you wish to have a job that provides a comfortable living, but one that you enjoy, so it isn't really "work" per se? Or do you want to amass a large amount of money somehow, and just live off of that for a while? Both of those seem like neat goals, but the first one is more practical of course.

You mentioned that you want to have your own business, and it also looks like you don't wish to go to college. I am right with you on that one! Well take a look at Apple and Facebook -- they are both extreme examples, of course, but neither Mark Zuckerberg nor Steve Jobs had a college degree. Come up with a great and unique idea that involves what you love, and push it to form a new business. The new business will not do great at first, almost guaranteed, but relentlessly pursuing the growth of your business should give it a fair chance to do well. I know of many people who own their own businesses, and they all love them and make decent money. The key thing that sets those businesses apart is their pertinence to niche markets. So yeah, just come up with a niche idea and get into that if you can.

Heck, even TGC is a great example of small business that operates rather well within a niche market.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 7th Mar 2015 07:49
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Ah! Double posting because I have new information that may be helpful to OP.

I myself just got into stock trading; it's a fascinating deal! If you want to make money doing your own thing, investment trading is something you could look into. Now, it's not something you can realistically expect to make you a full living, especially if you don't have a decent capital fund, but it is something to do that's fun and can make a little bit of money. Of course, it's also something that can be terrifying and lose you a ton of money if you make some bad decisions.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 7th Mar 2015 15:40
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Playing the stock market is very much like taking all your money, stuffing it into a briefcase, and heading to Las Vegas.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 7th Mar 2015 20:04
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Quote: "Playing the stock market is very much like taking all your money, stuffing it into a briefcase, and heading to Las Vegas."
Indeed, that is what the statistics show! One survey reported that 8 out of 10 traders believe they can do better than average (which is a 1.8% return annually), and most do indeed lose money.

That's why I am using a simulator, not the real thing! Yesterday, my first day of trading with that simulator (Investopedia's market simulator), even though the markets dropped pretty heavily, I made an 87 dollar profit!! Not expecting to make that again, but it was a lot of fun.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 01:20
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Quote: "That's why I am using a simulator"


There's stock market simulators?? Now THAT'S something I haven't heard of before! It also sounds pretty cool. Maybe I'll look into it. I've always been interested in the stock market and it might be fun to have a go without the risk of accidentally tipping all your money into a loo and flushing it repeatedly until all the money is gone and then when you get lucky and some of the money floats back up you keep flushing until it's gone again.


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 9th Mar 2015 01:55
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Here ya go! http://www.investopedia.com/simulator/

I know it definitely works for the American stock market (NYSE and NASDAQ) but I have no idea about the Australian market. Investopedia has things to do with Forex (foreign exchange), but I am not sure if that extends to the simulator or not. I believe the simulator allows only for the US and Canadian stock exchanges.

You can join games on there, create your own, etc. The game I joined, the stock only 2015 game, gives you $250,000.00 USD to start off with, and also charged no commission fees for regular market price trades. The simulator is really cool, because it allows for short sales, as well as stop and limit orders.

Beyond the simulator, Investopedia is also an enormous source of great information all about stock trading and strategies and all the likes of that nature. Cool place! Be careful about some games you can join on there -- many have a 20 minute delay on the market data. The game I joined has only a minute delay. As for what the games are, it just ranks you among the others in the game based upon your earnings, that's all. It doesn't really feel like a game unless you want it to.

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Matty H
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Posted: 10th Mar 2015 00:00
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Quote: "Ah! Double posting because I have new information that may be helpful to OP."


Did you just give career advice based on playing a simulator?

I would advise the op to try asteroid mining, he will need his own ship and some of the equipment may be expensive but you can make a decent return. I have just started doing it on Elite Dangerous

Just kidding, no offense Java Dude, I am guessing those simulators are pretty accurate to what you would have made if you were doing it for real?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Mar 2015 00:06
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Quote: "Did you just give career advice based on playing a simulator?"
Well I did, if we're honest!

Quote: "Just kidding, no offense Java Dude"
Haha no offense taken.

Quote: "I am guessing those simulators are pretty accurate to what you would have made if you were doing it for real?"
They are! The one I am using (and I am sure plenty others too) uses real market prices, calculates your losses and profits from trading, calculates dividends into your portfolio, allows for short sales, allows for stop and limit orders, and simulates commission fees on trades. Today I profited 97 dollars; had all those trades been real and such, I would have an actual 97 dollars in my pocket.

There is something interesting, though. Many psychological studies show that individuals who do well in simulators, even very realistic simulators like the one I described, begin performing poorly once they switch to real life trading. When your actual hard earned money is in the game, as opposed to $250,000 imaginary dollars that were given to you for free when you opened your account, you make slightly different, often less ideal, decisions.

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The Zoq2
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Posted: 10th Mar 2015 00:16
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Yea, making a realistic stock simulator can't be to hard, unless it tries to take what you do into account. But I would assume all you really need to do is keep track of the value of the stocks and what stocks you have purchased.

The part about people doing worse when real money is on the line is interesting though

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bitJericho
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Posted: 10th Mar 2015 23:19
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Quote: "The part about people doing worse when real money is on the line is interesting though"


Unfortunately, you also can't be scammed by a simulator. You'll find once you're out in the real world HFTs and everything else takes over, and your 97 dollar profit turns into a gigantic loss because you're small fish in a pond full to the brim with piranhas.

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Wolf
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 01:06
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Quote: "Unfortunately, you also can't be scammed by a simulator."


Shouldn't a good simulator take that into account?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 01:11
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Quote: "Shouldn't a good simulator take that into account?"


What makes you think these simulators are made by honest people?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 01:40 Edited at: 11th Mar 2015 01:50
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Quote: "What makes you think these simulators are made by honest people?"
What makes you think they aren't? What motive would someone have to make a simulator like that? It's totally free to use. The simulator I am using is made by Investopedia, which appears to me to be a perfectly reputable site. Their articles are highly insightful and unbiased. They are professionally written. The site as a whole is a plethora of information. I really don't see why it would be made by dishonest people? Sure, some simulators seem to be a bit sketchy, but this one again seems quite professional. It allows you to long and short buy/sell, allows for stop and limit orders, pays dividends, charges commission fees, etc. The only unrealistic thing about the simulator is a 20 minute delay on the input data, which is taken care of by (an option provided) delaying market orders by 20 minutes as well. A free simulator that accurate is clearly not made with any sly motives.

I'd encourage you to check the simulator out for yourself.

Ah, looks like it won't let you see much without an account (which is free by the way). Still, the points remain.

Quote: "You'll find once you're out in the real world HFTs and everything else takes over, and your 97 dollar profit turns into a gigantic loss because you're small fish in a pond full to the brim with piranhas."
So, then, I need to get an HFT setup going.

You seem rather biased against the whole idea of stock trading, which is probably good. The statistics, and probably intelligence, say it is. I am not planning on attempting to make this a career for myself, or even do it at all. It's just a fun thing I came across. The realistic insight is just that, but it's not necessary here.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 02:14
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It's like this. Say a Las Vegas casino is releasing free tools to help you learn and maybe even "beat" the system, that's exactly what you're advertising here. Now I checked it out and it doesn't look like it is insidious or anything like that but I would be very careful playing the stock market expecting to make any return. The only way to win in the stock market for guys like you and me is to not even play the game. You lose at every stage.

1. Your stock broker takes a cut whether you win or lose.
2. You will always buy at a price higher than the big guys and sell at a price lower than the big guys.
3. You'll lose something like 25 percent of your profits to taxes
4. You'll be scammed at every turn by HFTs and from other practices *we don't even know about yet* and may not know about ever or any time soon.
5. Businesses lie about their numbers, practice insider trading whether you like it or not, and every single illegal and legal and shady practice perpetrated affects your bottom dollar.

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Seditious
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 02:20
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DON'T risk your money and future gambling with something like the stock market.
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Clonkex
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 03:19
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Quote: "DON'T risk your money and future gambling with something like the stock market."


Haha, I don't think any of us intend to. TGC is filled with smart people, remember? We're just having some fun imagining what it would be like it we could make a living through the stock market


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 03:35
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Quote: "The only way to win in the stock market for guys like you and me is to not even play the game. "
It's probably true! I should clarify something. A couple days ago, when I came in this thread and recommended stock trading, I hadn't yet researched and realized how risky stock trading actually is. Nonetheless, I still find it fun to trade in the simulator, where I can pretend what things would be like if only. Today, for the record, I lost about 240 dollars. That's even after one trade in particular made me 120 dollars.

Quote: "You lose at every stage. "
It's true, sadly!

My dad is an extremely intelligent individual, and I can say that he is a very successful person financially. He was telling me a story just now; he once set aside five thousand dollars just to play with stocks a bit. Within a matter of months, that was down to only two thousand dollars, so he gave up and used the rest for a vacation.

"Sorry, you can redo your sig...Stupid Mod pressed the wrong button." Clonkex ~~ May his legacy live on!!
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Clonkex
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 04:00
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Quote: ""Sorry, you can redo your sig...Stupid Mod pressed the wrong button." Clonkex ~~ May his legacy live on!!"


I didn't do that lol I'm not that silly


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 11th Mar 2015 04:18
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Shucks! I thought it was you. Who did it, then?

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