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AppGameKit/AppGameKit Studio Showcase / AGK Scene Builder [AGK V2 Tier 1]

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baxslash
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Posted: 24th Apr 2015 18:06 Edited at: 1st May 2015 11:45
ALPHA 0.0.3 DOWNLOAD - Last updated 1st May 2015

This is the main project I started the Pax Particle Editor for. The full toolkit that will eventually include Pax and some other tools I have in mind. So far the Scene Builder is pretty basic but I'm working heavily on getting the UI to work really nicely and I'm very happy with the results so far.


Planned features (if I can find the time):
Built in particle system
Built in lighting system
Built in character creation using Spine characters / animated spritesheets
Built in character controller system. Test while you build levels!
Built in AI
Built in UI designer
Full physics support including complex shape definition
Quick and easy project creation using a full project export ready to compile

I intend to share a highly usable version of this including particles, lighting, character controller and physics support at least. I don't want to say for sure that the full version will be free if I ever finish it but we'll see if I get that far how generous I'm feeling...

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SpecTre
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Posted: 24th Apr 2015 18:31
@baxslash

very exciting times and I can genuinely say I am looking forward to seeing this progress.

If you decide to do a Pro version or something at the end you have my support, I will definitely buy!


Good luck with this and make sure you keep posting bits on here so it doesn't fall down the posts on the forum as this is one of the most interesting projects I have seen on here.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
baxslash
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Posted: 27th Apr 2015 19:08 Edited at: 1st May 2015 11:45
Update!
Added:
-Layer tree
-Sprite settings panel (linked to currently selected sprite)
-Move / Scale / Rotate sprites

Next:
-Physics settings panel

EDIT: Added Download - 1st May 2015

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SpecTre
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Posted: 27th Apr 2015 23:30
Keep it up baxslash, great features going in

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
baxslash
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Posted: 27th Apr 2015 23:38 Edited at: 27th Apr 2015 23:39
Here's a quick screenshot of the current status. I'm just using the images from Overlap for testing and they won't be included in any releases of the software:


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Scotty1973
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 00:45
Wow this is looking really great!!

Fantastic work Baxslash!

Next time your through Burton I'll have to get you a

Scotty
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 10:26 Edited at: 28th Apr 2015 11:08
This looks great.

Do you plan to have a feature like Unity's prefabs or UE4's blueprints. On a basic level it's just grouping together sprites/text/particles etc so they can be cloned. The cool thing is you can go back and change the prefab and then all instances will also change, but they can also override their inherited properties. That actually sounds quite complex now I say it out loud

Edit: If someone wrote the agk code for a prefab system would you consider adding it to the editor?

baxslash
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 11:23 Edited at: 28th Apr 2015 12:52
Quote: "Do you plan to have a feature like Unity's prefabs or UE4's blueprints. On a basic level it's just grouping together sprites/text/particles etc so they can be cloned. The cool thing is you can go back and change the prefab and then all instances will also change, but they can also override their inherited properties. That actually sounds quite complex now I say it out loud

Edit: If someone wrote the agk code for a prefab system would you consider adding it to the editor? "

That's a great idea, prefabs would be very useful! Consider it added to the list.

To be honest I'd be happier adding the code myself so I know how it works, plus it might not fit in with the rest of the code easily... it should be pretty simple to add anyway now that I think about it.

Once I have particles and lights working I'll look at getting an alpha version out before adding anything new like this in but it's a high priority addition in my opinion! Adding Particles at the moment

EDIT: Here are particles. I can insert but not select, move or edit them yet:


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CJB
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 13:03
Looking good baxslash,

I'd also happily pay a modest fee for the complete version! Can't wait to see what the exported project code looks like

Where do you find the time to do great stuff like this!? I might be heading up your way tomorrow (going to Leek) - I'll wave as I go passed!

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baxslash
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 13:08
Quote: "I'd also happily pay a modest fee for the complete version! Can't wait to see what the exported project code looks like"

We'll see. I'm not sure how far I'll get with this yet but if you want a preview of some of the code take a look at the Pax Editor I've done for the particle system.

Quote: "Where do you find the time to do great stuff like this!?"

I get a lot of time in the evening at the moment and lunchtimes of course!

Quote: "I might be heading up your way tomorrow (going to Leek) - I'll wave as I go passed!"

If you go on the A6 through Duffield you'll go right past my house I'll be in Cheshire though...

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Rickynzx
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 13:31
Great work. This looks amazing cant wait to give it a try.

SpecTre
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 15:32
Editor with the particle system is starting to look good, I like the rain effect from the cloud

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
janbo
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 16:19 Edited at: 28th Apr 2015 16:21
Verry nice baxslash,

It is for positioning sprites and particles, right!?

But it would be nice to give the layers and sprites some user defined attributes.
I think of trigger and events.

Might get huge.


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baxslash
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 16:56 Edited at: 28th Apr 2015 16:57
Quote: "But it would be nice to give the layers and sprites some user defined attributes.
I think of trigger and events."

I'll be expanding this from a simple level editor into a full blown AppGameKit project maker if I ever get that far (that's the dream anyway)... drag-drop games with scripting in AppGameKit Basic for extra power

Each object will have an "Update" script that can be added to in the editor so for moving platforms you'd add something like:

Parameters declared in the script would become visible in the settings panel and games could be compiled and run for testing, much like Unity.

Of course I'm a long way off that goal!

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baxslash
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 00:57
Last night I added Particle Settings including layer setting and wrote some new shaders for basic lighting. Also I added the start of the lighting system, which is heavily based on my existing systems. Once I have the basic system working I will start on Save / Load / Export. Once that's working I have everything I need for an alpha build!

Then I really need some testers... who is up for a little testing of this? As many of you as possible would be good!!! I really want to get this thing good and stable before moving on to sprite physics and physics based shadows etc.

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SpecTre
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 02:52
Tester at the ready here

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
Scraggle
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 09:59
I will be happy to try to break it for you

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baxslash
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 10:52
Quote: "Tester at the ready here"

Thanks!

Quote: "I will be happy to try to break it for you"

You sound like a professional tester

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BatVink
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 11:29
As the proud discoverer of the only 2 bugs in EzRotate, I offer my services. (I was actually a professional application annihilator in a previous job)

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baxslash
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 13:18
Ok, not calling you then...

Seriously though thanks guys. Lighting is working by the way, I just need to tie up the controls at lunchtime and I'll be able to start testing a little myself.

Would you guys be ok testing the editor before save/load/export is implemented? You could still test creating levels with sprites, particle systems and lighting which is quite a bit to get started with believe me! If so I could get a shared folder onto dropbox with a test version of the editor by tonight maybe.

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Scraggle
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 13:25
That's fine by me.
I have a boring weekend planned where I just intend to sit in Costa and try to finish CryptoGlyphs. I will need a break from coding now and then, so I will find all the bugs for you. ALL of them Mwuhaha!

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janbo
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 14:14
Count me to the Testers, if you want, i'm curious.


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Rickynzx
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 14:33
Count me in as well. Ill help testing.

SpecTre
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 16:24
Quote: "Would you guys be ok testing the editor before save/load/export is implemented? You could still test creating levels with sprites, particle systems and lighting which is quite a bit to get started with believe me! If so I could get a shared folder onto dropbox with a test version of the editor by tonight maybe."


Yep, no worries, just throw whatever you want testing at us

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
baxslash
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 17:20 Edited at: 30th Apr 2015 17:30
Here's a quick screenshot of lighting in action:


Lighting will be layered too by the way so that lights can be placed behind scene objects. If an object is in front of a light it is not affected by it (currently up to 10 lights on screen at once).

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Scotty1973
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 19:35
I'd be happy to test too! Been following this for a while, and wow it's looking great!

Scotty
baxslash
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 20:06
Thanks!

Ambient light can be set by colour and level. Currently I have 2 light types and they can be inserted and moved, now I just have to hook it into the UI for range, colour, level (depth) and name. I think it's about time I made it possible to pan the scene with the mouse too as up until now it's a static view offset.

I have some great ideas for this now... can't wait to see what you guys make of using it as it feels great to me so far!

I just need to really hammer the kinks out of this once lights are fully connected to the UI, then I'll release an alpha version. It's really satisfying to see the lighting and particle systems working as I'd imagined!

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SpecTre
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 23:23
Quote: "It's really satisfying to see the lighting and particle systems working as I'd imagined!"


Looks great from the still above. Looking forward to trying it.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
baxslash
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Posted: 1st May 2015 00:13 Edited at: 1st May 2015 00:14
Lights are fully working now. Sprites, Particle emitters and Lights can all be inserted, edited and deleted really easily. I just knocked this up then deleted it all as a test:


I'll just add panning so users can move around their scene then I think I'll build a version for all you eager testers to play with!

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baxslash
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Posted: 1st May 2015 00:28 Edited at: 1st May 2015 00:31
First Alpha download added to the top post!

Let me know how you get on with it. It should be fairly obvious how to use other than middle mouse to pan around, I hope!

I've also included some media for testing purposes in a folder called "testbed"

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BatVink
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Posted: 1st May 2015 01:01
Looking very good. Some observations:

1. Should you be able to resize the window by dragging the edges/corners? I can drag a few pixels then it stops. Maybe it is because you are resizing the AppGameKit window on the Resize() event, rather than the ResizeEnd() event?

2. I got an unhandled exception by:
a. Creating a layer
b. moving sprite to the bottom left
c. stretching using the top left handle

I kept doing this accidentally, when I was stretching sprites for a large backdrop. I think the sprites always went offscreen when the error occurred.



3. I deleted the background by accident, by clicking on the bin in the bottom right. I though it it would delete the currently selected item, but because the background sprite was under the bin, it deleted that instead.
Eventually I realised I have to drag things to the bin, but it is one to be aware of.

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Scotty1973
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Posted: 1st May 2015 01:24
Looking really good so far. Did get same error as BatVink when I resized a sprite for a backdrop.

It would be good if you could load in a number of sprites in one go instead of one at a time.

I agree with BatVink a window resize would be useful.

When you try to scale in the Emitter by clicking on the up or down buttons it is slow to respond, though just entering a number works fine!


Lighting and particles look fantastic!

This is my early thoughts will still have a little test with it.

Scotty
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Posted: 1st May 2015 02:54 Edited at: 1st May 2015 02:55
I get this error after I create a Particle effect



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baxslash
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Posted: 1st May 2015 11:29 Edited at: 1st May 2015 11:46
Wow, that's a lot more than I expected people to have time for last night!

Quote: "1. Should you be able to resize the window by dragging the edges/corners? I can drag a few pixels then it stops. Maybe it is because you are resizing the AppGameKit window on the Resize() event, rather than the ResizeEnd() event?"

I've changed this to 2 separate events, one on ResizeEnd for the main form and one for SplitterMoved so this shouldn't be a problem again. I guess my machine is too fast for me to see this bug...

Quote: "2. I got an unhandled exception by:
a. Creating a layer
b. moving sprite to the bottom left
c. stretching using the top left handle

I kept doing this accidentally, when I was stretching sprites for a large backdrop. I think the sprites always went offscreen when the error occurred."

This appears to be a simple bug in the numericUpDowns where I haven't allowed for large enough values. Fixed!

Quote: "3. I deleted the background by accident, by clicking on the bin in the bottom right. I though it it would delete the currently selected item, but because the background sprite was under the bin, it deleted that instead.
Eventually I realised I have to drag things to the bin, but it is one to be aware of."

Maybe I will get rid of the bin and just use the Delete key? Makes more sense anyway. Yes, tried this and it's much neater.

Quote: "It would be good if you could load in a number of sprites in one go instead of one at a time."

Multiselect is now enabled for Sprites and Particles!

Quote: "I agree with BatVink a window resize would be useful."

It works fine here but the changes I've made should get it working properly for the rest of you now too.

Quote: "When you try to scale in the Emitter by clicking on the up or down buttons it is slow to respond, though just entering a number works fine!"

This was a little more tricky to 'fix'. What I have now is a delay before it sends the new size to AppGameKit so it only updates AppGameKit every 500ms. This stops the numericUpDown from scrolling really slowly but means Agk is only updated sporadically while scrolling through values. I think it's about the best I can do while keeping this kind of control (which I think works well).

Quote: "I get this error after I create a Particle effect"

I can't seem to reproduce this error. How did you enter the value, by clicking the buttons or by typing the value? What value did you enter?

This issue is different to the previous error as scaling can only be done within the numericUpDown control for emitters.

Download updated!

EDIT: I just noticed that I'm not killing the Agk app when the form closes. Not a major issue as the app closes existing instances of the Agk app so there will never be more than one running but it will keep running "scenebuilder.exe" after the app is closed. I'm going to upload a quick update though to get rid of this issue.

EDIT 2: V0.0.3 Uploaded!

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BatVink
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Posted: 1st May 2015 13:31
Quote: "What I have now is a delay before it sends the new size to AppGameKit so it only updates AppGameKit every 500ms. This stops the numericUpDown from scrolling really slowly but means Agk is only updated sporadically while scrolling through values"


My network-based winForms wrapper is almost complete. It exchanges messages at close to the speed of light (disclaimer: maybe a little bit slower). I know you have a stable system now, but I'll send you the details anyway should you want it in the future.

Quote: "EDIT: I just noticed that I'm not killing the Agk app when the form closes. "


In my formClosing() event, I send one final "END" message to allow AppGameKit to close itself. Then it can tidy up any resources etc. Seems to work well, and I don't notice the disconnect visually.

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baxslash
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Posted: 1st May 2015 14:19
Quote: "My network-based winForms wrapper is almost complete. It exchanges messages at close to the speed of light (disclaimer: maybe a little bit slower). I know you have a stable system now, but I'll send you the details anyway should you want it in the future."

That would be very useful thanks! I may well swap over to your method. Mine runs really well here but I guess it is a 3K machine... I'd be really keen to see how you're doing it before I get too far down the road but I am set up fairly modular in the code so it shouldn't be too hard to swap communication methods.

Quote: "In my formClosing() event, I send one final "END" message to allow AppGameKit to close itself. Then it can tidy up any resources etc. Seems to work well, and I don't notice the disconnect visually."

That's a much more sensible method. I'll do that.

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Posted: 1st May 2015 17:57 Edited at: 1st May 2015 17:59
I've just found a few minutes to look at the sprites system, I haven't had chance to check out the particles or light yet, I'll do that later.

I realise this is very early days so most of this is more than likely already on your to do list but for what it's worth, here are some observations:

The layer system confused me initially. I couldn't figure out how to change a sprite to be on another layer. It made sense once I worked it out but I tried drag/dropping a sprite onto a layer name but then the sprite was lost behind the panel and I couldn't get to it.
There needs to be positional information for the sprites. That would have been helpful to recover the lost sprite in the above scenario.
I'm not a fan of how you are scaling the sprites. The way it behaves now is how I would expect it to behave if I held the ALT key whilst scaling. Dragging a top handle should just scale from the top and leave the bottom of the sprite where it is.
Flip sprite Yes/No should really be two checkboxes to flip horiz or vert.

Other than the lost sprite behind the panel, nothing broke in my initial test (damn it!).

Have you used Spriter? I like the way they handle media and maybe it's something you could consider here? On starting a new project you select the project folder and any media in the folder is automatically included. It also keeps the files in subfolders within the project.

I will try to break the particles and lights later tonight

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SpecTre
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Posted: 1st May 2015 20:01 Edited at: 1st May 2015 20:02
First impressions are extremely good, I have only had a chance to have a short play with this so far but I am impressed.

Only a couple of things I could think of for now

1 - Press escape key to deselect an object/sprite incase you change your mind on which sprite selected. This will save having to place the object and delete it.

2 - CTRL + Z for undo would be good.

3 - Sprite scaling would be better not from centre if possible eg as Scraggle mentions and also the flip.



Is there a way to highlight what is on each layer, eg if you press background layer all the background objects highlight so you know what is on each layer?

How can you move sprites forward and backward so they can be behind an object if you place it after something. Eg, put a car on the screen then a tree but want the tree to be behind the car?
Not sure how layers work though.

Nothing has broken yet though!!

Screen shot here as the menus are slightly not shown like the particle system program before. Again I am using windows 8.

Great work baxslash!!!



The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/

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Scraggle
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Posted: 1st May 2015 21:44 Edited at: 1st May 2015 21:45
The lighting system doesn't seem right.
I've created two layers and placed the light on the back layer but it still affects the front layer. Not as much though. It's almost as if the umbra goes to the back layer but the penumbra stays in the front - very odd.

Here you can see the top image has no lights.
The second image has the light on the front layer
and the bottom image has the light on the back layer but it is still lighting the front but not as much as the middle image when the light was at the front.



Also, what's the difference between the point light and the area light? They seem to behave in exactly the same way.

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd May 2015 09:46
Quote: "The layer system confused me initially. I couldn't figure out how to change a sprite to be on another layer. It made sense once I worked it out but I tried drag/dropping a sprite onto a layer name but then the sprite was lost behind the panel and I couldn't get to it. "

Did you try middle mouse to pan the scene across? You should be able to move the scene by holding down the middle mouse button. Any suggestions on improving the layer system?

Quote: "There needs to be positional information for the sprites. That would have been helpful to recover the lost sprite in the above scenario."

I might add this later. I didn't want to overcomplicate the ui. I was considering using arrow keys to move sprites one pixel at a time.

Quote: "I'm not a fan of how you are scaling the sprites. The way it behaves now is how I would expect it to behave if I held the ALT key whilst scaling. Dragging a top handle should just scale from the top and leave the bottom of the sprite where it is."

I know, I took the system out because it wasn't working correctly but it'll be working right in the next version.

Quote: "Flip sprite Yes/No should really be two checkboxes to flip horiz or vert."

Yeah I'll add this in.

Quote: "Have you used Spriter? I like the way they handle media and maybe it's something you could consider here? On starting a new project you select the project folder and any media in the folder is automatically included. It also keeps the files in subfolders within the project."

Yes, I have Spriter and I know what you mean. I'll add it to the wish list as it would be handy.

Quote: "Press escape key to deselect an object/sprite incase you change your mind on which sprite selected. This will save having to place the object and delete it."

Ok, no problem.

Quote: "CTRL + Z for undo would be good."

Agreed but it's a major addition. I've done undo systems before and it'll take quite a while.

Quote: "Is there a way to highlight what is on each layer, eg if you press background layer all the background objects highlight so you know what is on each layer?"

I'll try to add something along these lines.

Quote: "How can you move sprites forward and backward so they can be behind an object if you place it after something. Eg, put a car on the screen then a tree but want the tree to be behind the car?
Not sure how layers work though."

You have to create layers yes and the order the layers are in is the order the sprites are drawn. You can change a sprite's layer in the Sprite Settings tab. I'm beginning to wonder if we don't need an additional depth sorting method anyway though.

Quote: "The lighting system doesn't seem right."

No, I couldn't get the shader to work as I'd wanted. I might have to remove layers from lights...

Quote: "Also, what's the difference between the point light and the area light? They seem to behave in exactly the same way."

The only difference is that the 'area' light uses a flatter image. I still want to create a separate shader for that light for the next version that behaves more like you might expect. I'm not finished playing with the shaders or lights in general yet.

Thanks for the testing guys I really appreciate the input!

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Scraggle
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Posted: 2nd May 2015 10:20 Edited at: 2nd May 2015 10:55
Quote: "Did you try middle mouse to pan the scene across?"

Nope, I didn't know that was a feature but that would have done it.

Quote: "Any suggestions on improving the layer system?"

Yes
The terminology is going to get confusing here but I'll do my best to explain what I mean.
I'm going to compare you layer system to Photoshop so there's SBlayers and PSlayers.
An SBlayer should work like a group within Photoshops layer panel. Each group can contain multiple layers (sprites) and each of those can can have a different depth or z order.
So, Photoshop groups can be moved around in the PSlayer panel and every PSlayer in the group changes z order accordingly but additionally each PSlayer in the group can have it's z order changed relative to all other PSlayers in the group.

So, how I see that working in Scene Builder is: Each SBlayer can contain multiple sprites but each sprite can have its depth (z order) changed within that layer (maybe CTRL[ and CTRL] to match Photoshop?). That means any sprite can be moved in front or behind any other within it's own SBlayer. But because SBlayers are essentially just groups of sprites then each SBlayer could be moved/hidden/have its z order changed en-masse. Although you can change the depth of each sprite within a SBlayer, all sprites in the back SBlayer will be behind all sprites in the front SBlayer regardless of how you order them within the SBlayer.

So in summary: A Photoshop layer is the equivalent of a Scene Builder sprite and a Scene Builder layer is the equivalent of a Photoshop layer group.

Does that make sense?

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SpecTre
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Posted: 2nd May 2015 14:44
Photoshop style layers makes total sense and would work very well in the scene builder if this could be implemented some way.

Also I was thinking about the undo command and really it is not a massive issue because it is so simple to delete an item anyway.

I might also be missing something but when you create a new scene should you enter the dimensions of the scene?
I am not sure how the scene would be implemented on a game for example to then scroll say a platformer?
Eg screen size 1024 x 768 and scene size 4096 x 768 so when in a game it is 4 screen sizes wide to scroll.

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Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
BatVink
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Posted: 2nd May 2015 14:50
Quote: "Quote: "CTRL + Z for undo would be good."
Agreed but it's a major addition. I've done undo systems before and it'll take quite a while."


Because you are passing messages back and forth between .NET and AppGameKit, an undo system becomes really simple. You can keep a list of the messages as you send/receive them, and this becomes the data feed for your undo system.

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baxslash
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Posted: 2nd May 2015 18:27
Scraggle, that makes total sense and is more or less what i had in mind anyway.

Regarding resolution i have a few ideas about that i will share later when on a pc.

Undo may be relatively simple but i will add it later.

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Scotty1973
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Posted: 3rd May 2015 02:08
Found when I put some sprites and a couple of lights with the fire particle when I click on the light it shows the settings for the emitter and when I try to change this it throws up an error.
See the following screen shots


Scotty

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baxslash
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Posted: 3rd May 2015 10:41
Cheers scotty!

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SpecTre
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Posted: 13th May 2015 20:59
How you getting on with this baxslash, you still working on it?
Still can't stop messing with the particle editor, it's fascinating just creating new effects.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
baxslash
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Posted: 13th May 2015 22:28
I've been busy with my new job but I'm also working on moving over to Batvink's network commands to improve performance... I'll be updating this soon, when I get some time!

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lmr2013
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Posted: 14th May 2015 00:04
woooah ... nice work!

i would defo invest if you get to complete this.
baxslash
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Posted: 21st May 2015 15:26 Edited at: 21st May 2015 17:22
Well it's taken a while for me to get back to this but I've implemented Batvinks networking commands as a dll and have communication working nicely both ways again now. Text files are gone so this should be much faster!

I intend to get on with some basic export options so this can actually be used for basic scenes in Agk with sprites, lighting and particles. I can then create the basic importer. Then I can really start having some fun!!!

Can't wait to start adding physics properties to sprites, shape definition, physics based shadows, parallax... phew!!

EDIT: Fixed scaling using the handles so it now works as you would expect!

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