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Geek Culture / Matrix Reloaded Scenes

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 15:57
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i got the dvd a few days back, and i swear i watched it til the plastic melted. liked it in the cinema, but without people talking and being all anoying all the way through it - finally got to appreciate it.

remember wondering what everyone was on about when it first came out about how it wasn't too good, but kinda went along with it cause i didn't really hear much of the dialog as at some parts it was really quiet, so you weren't sure what they were saying.

well anyways, in my eyes the films TOTALLY has the Matrix beat as it is one of the most superb sequals i've seen several thousand times hehee - especially considering i was able to amp it up and you don't realise how awesome the surround is without an 8.1 Cambridgeworks/Warfdale System hehee

well enough how how much i love the movie, my brother left this morning about 4hrs ago ... and i've just realised the lil bugger has taken my dvd (the matrix is missing as well as a few others :: shakes fist :

well anyways i have a lil project i want to create, and if anyone has reloaded could they take a few screenshots of sections of the film with the matrix in it's encoded form?

The Woman in the Resturant,
Seraph w/tea,
Neo at the start fading across,
Star with the Punch Clock,
And perhaps an animation of the Matrix Text Scrolling.

email them to my account raven@puffinteractive.com
if they could be 1280x1024 this would really help as i'm working at 8" x 12.5" 172dpi and so i won't have to convert majorly.

cheers


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 16:24
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I've recently brought The Matrix, which I need to see. Then I can see if everyone is correct and that it is better than the sequels...

I've never been able to take screenshots of DVD whilst playing - always come out black... Unfortunately I dont have the appropriate software to get try around it either...


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 18:34
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well in Reloaded they assume you've seen the first, and as such spend more of the movie digging the rabbit a very very deep hole in which if you don't understand your biblical refferences you'll just see it as a cool action movie.

^_^ the Wachoski Brothers definately love thier animé, cause the story line is deep as hell - provided your actually paying attention hehee
probably why almost everyone prefers the first, because it was a case of they wanted people to see it rather than bombard them with it being just action and a confusing plot.

So it was deliberatly made with an easier to follow plot ^_^
the undertones are still there if you want to see them though.

well anyways about taking the screenies, PowerDVD has a builtin screenshot taker ... and Media Player you need a screenshot program that can capture DirectX Layers. (HyperSnap Dx works well, so does ScreenCapture)


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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 19:30
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Most people couldn't follow 2 & 3 because of all the philosophy - I certainly liked that aspect of it. (especially The Architects long speech - although I did feel he contradicted himself).

I'll try PowerDVD - see what I get...


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 20:22
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I watch parts of The Matrix Reloaded nearly every day! Have you ever noticed how the music is synchronised to the fight scene, and the Menu is even synchronised to the music too!

Pincho.
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Damokles
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 22:49
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philosophy in these movies ? hmmm ... I suppose you never saw 2001 A Space Odyssey, eh ? That's a movie hard to understand.

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 22:58
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The movie 2001 might be hard to understand, but the book makes some sense.

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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 23:10 Edited at: 8th Dec 2003 23:12
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No, 2001 is not hard to understand - it is just boring... If you want something brain-taking, try watching The Prisoner...


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 23:25
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2001 wasn't to complex, and with 2010 it made even more sense. Although the ending was a bit freaky. (don't expect anything else from Cubrik though really, thats his talent lol)

Akira the only movie that still baffles the crap outta me, i even have the full 6 Volume Manga ... still don't have the foggiest about it really.

i mean i understand enough of it to really enjoy it, as it is about the child Akira. An abnormally telekenetic and telepathic individual, however he is haunted by the Hiroshima nuclear explosion.
Neo Tokiyo is born out of his imagination, Kaneda and Tetsuo both represent the two sides of him which fight over his powers which become increasingly out of control and fueled by the rejection he recieved around him.
Akira is the begining and the end of the universe in which was created, when he powers become too much the voices from the city cause him to go crazy and destroy himself.
It is only after he breaks that his two halves realise they're one of a whole and return.

There is one hell of alot more i still don't understand even after a decade of that film.


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Damokles
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 23:38
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Quote: "2001 wasn't to complex, and with 2010 it made even more sense. Although the ending was a bit freaky. (don't expect anything else from Cubrik though really, thats his talent lol)"

Well yes, but I believe it would have been better, that 2010 wouldn't exist ... it explains too much ... but that's only my opinion.

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
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Ian T
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 23:49
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I didn't agree with the philosophy in the last two movies (and the first, but it's a bit more subtle) and it dosen't intrest me. But whether it does or not does not change the fact that the script was absolutely horrendous.

And the plot was, even past the ridiculous strokes of luck and nonsensical fight scenes, about as solid as a tissue-- the 'it flows from the Source' crap dosen't explain anything at all past that the Bros didn't have any kind of a good plot to use.

Of course it did have some good acting, nice special effects and a couple pretty neat scenes. But that's about it IMO.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 00:07
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I couldn't see anything much wrong with the script - mind you, the philosophical parts did interest me.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 12:05
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lol ... :: wonders if anyone will make his screenies ::


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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 12:10
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Did you get my e-mails, then ?


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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 19:48 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 19:49
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Well, here's the plot holes that just jump to mind...

They are spoilers. Don't read if you haven't seen the movie.













Well that's all I can think of . There have been more mistake-filled movies, surely, but I can't think of any offhand with such a massive budget and such a thin plot.

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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 20:15
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Quote: "Both movies are full of guns that fire way more shots than their clips can hold without reloading."

And why not ? Its a computer generated world, and if you can fly in it, you can probably make sure you dont run out of ammo too often.

Quote: "Neo is caught between the machine world and the real world-- how? "

Quote: "'It flows from the source'; again, completely unexplained"

Not explained, no... But then, why should it be ?

Quote: "His connection with this Deus Ex Machina 'The Source' has somehow linked him into the Matrix when he's not even at broadcast depth? The train station may be a decent philisophical analogy, but it dosen't make a scrap of sense plot-wise."

It could be regarded as a halfway house between the machine and real world.

Quote: "The super-powerful machine city has antiquitated defense systems that can't even shoot inside... what? "

Well, it hasn't needed to upgrade them has it - no-one has been there before and survived.

Quote: "Furthermore, the ship just happens to crash at just the right place in this massive city"

No, I regard it as having crash landed in a very poor location - I suspect they had wanted somewhere else.

Quote: "This has been mentioned a lot other places because it's so ridiculous... Trinity gets SCEWERED by a number of metal beams in the stomach and chest. She would been dead or in a coma in seconds from blood loss and, well, her internal organs being ruptured, and her last moments would be spent screaming in pain. But no, she has time for this long, dramatic death scene..."

Maybe, maybe not.

Quote: "A metal machine passess through Neo. In the real world. In a spaceship. Just flies through the windshild and him. WTF?"

When does that happen ?


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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 20:17 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 20:18
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Seraph w/tea - is that when Neo et al are with the Melvichican (sp) ?
Star with the Punch Clock - ?


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 20:53
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It's a computer generated world, but it is supposed to be the Earth as we know it. So all logic should be realistic. Guns should fire the right number of rounds when used by the police, but can fire as many rounds as you like if you have the ability to use upgrades.

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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 21:04
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How would the machines know realism ?


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 23:19 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 23:19
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We are living the Matrix now according to the film so our realism would be the machines interpretation of realism.
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 23:32
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Therefore everything we think is real, isn't...


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 23:37
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Quote: "Most people couldn't follow 2 & 3 because of all the philosophy"


Your the second person I've heard say that. I for one understood the philosophy and still thought it was crap (only in comparison to the first movie). The reason I thought this was because in the first Matrix, the philosophy seems more meticulously placed, as though you have to be REALLY listening to catch it, and then when you do, you say - wow, I never thought of that before! I still catch things in the first Matrix that I never have before, but something about reloaded...the whole mood was totally different. I guess the reason was, it went from being like "wow, this could really happen some day" to the Wachowski's real-life Anime.

If you want me to explain further I will.

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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 23:41
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Well, there's no pleasing some people...


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 23:43 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 23:44
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Now I have to ask what you mean by that - no pleasing me? To tell the truth, I did not go along with what the crowd said, I determined my views on the second movie for myself and I stand by them. I've backed up my views with an apparent mood change from the first to second movie - what more do you want? Yes, the second was good, but no where near as good as the first because it was entirely different as far as I'm concerned.

No pleasing me? I'm pleased with the movie. However I'm more pleased with the first one.

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Chris K
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 23:47
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I don't think Matrix Reloaded was as bad as everyone said.

Everyone gave the original credit for the idea of machines taking over the world but no one gave the sequel credit for that. It's impossible to make a sequel particularly new.

I don't think it could've lived up the anyone's (ceratinly my) expectations.


...and like that; he's gone...
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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 23:49 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 23:50
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'And why not ? Its a computer generated world, and if you can fly in it, you can probably make sure you dont run out of ammo too often.'

This is also in the train station, with the train man. And he was following the laws of reality; if he wasn't then he would have fought something like an agent.

'It could be regarded as a halfway house between the machine and real world.'

Can you get 'half' on the internet without an ISP?

'Well, it hasn't needed to upgrade them has it - no-one has been there before and survived.'

Not really how machines would think IMO.

'When does that happen ?'

Flying through the sentinels, it's a quick, 1-second shot; you can see it clearly in the trailer.

I think my point is pretty clear-- if you don't mind the movie not making a scrap of sense, then I suppose it's fine, but IMO the philosophy could just as easily have been put onto the back of a fortune cookie, instead of stretched into 2 long movies that didn't even have a solid analogy to use.


'Everyone gave the original credit for the idea of machines taking over the world but no one gave the sequel credit for that. It's impossible to make a sequel particularly new.'

New? That idea isn't new! Ever read any Philip K. Dick? That's 50-60s stuff. And movies before it also used the idea. It's far from new!

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HZence
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 23:52 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 23:52
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Like the obvious Terminator lol

IMO although the idea isn't original, it's probably the best way anyone has ever described an AI takeover.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 00:24
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The Matrix is not pointing you in the direction of the machines taking over the world, it merely uses that as a need to explain THE MATRIX. The film as a whole is original. You don't need the machines as a storyline. You could replace the machines with Heaven as a storyline. The film concentrates mainly on life not being a reality, and it even has cheats, and backdoor programs running in it. The Terminator concentrated of the machines as its main story.

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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 00:28
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I don't think it was 'about' life being fake. I'm fairly certain it was either

A) Christian philosophy (there is very hard to deny evidence about this)

or

B) Just an action movie

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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 00:31 Edited at: 10th Dec 2003 00:34
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Quote: "Now I have to ask what you mean by that - no pleasing me?"

It means whatever you want it to mean.

Quote: "if he wasn't then he would have fought something like an agent."

Perhaps he didn't want to. 'Merv' already knew where Neo was, so he was probably under orders not to do too much...

Quote: "Not really how machines would think IMO"

There were quite a few sentinels there too.

Quote: "A) Christian philosophy (there is very hard to deny evidence about this)"

Especially at the end of the third film.

Quote: "B) Just an action movie"

And a damn fine one too...


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 00:32
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If you don't think it was about life being fake then you watched a different movie to me.
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 00:46
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The first was about 'What is life', the second being 'Is life pre-determined' and the third is about death.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 01:11
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yeah got the emails, i'd forgotten to setup my puffinte account again. keep doing that with each of the machines i use.

You all know who the characters are being based on in the Matrices right?
i mean once you figure that out, everything pretty much clicks into place ... if you need a clue on it though,

Morpheus is the Father, The Holy Spirit
Neo is the One, Jesus
Trinity is the legacy of Birth, Life, Death
The Source is the Tree of Life,
The Architect is God,
The Oracle is Gabriel (there is a story behind that, and Seraph is her Guardian of no one in particular "Seraph <> Seraphim")
Maciavelli is Lucifa, along with Horus & Torus his demon twins ^_^
The Keymaker is mearly a symbolic gesture.
And Smith is the opposing force of reality of Neo.

Neo is the personality which believes he can save the humans, Smith is the personality which is telling him there is no chance in hell.
One MUST destroy the other for him to wake up from this world he has created to finally free the humans.
6 Times now he has tried and failed, the number 6 is important because this also make him No. 7 ... and 7 within the Christian Faith is a very important number.

^_^ the rabbit hole goes one hell of alot deeper but that should be enough to get most of you thinking along the right path.


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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 01:23
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'Especially at the end of the third film.'

I found the marking in Morpheus' ship in the first film to be far more blatant than that. You can translate the third film many different ways, though it comes down to the same thing.

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HZence
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Quote: "It means whatever you want it to mean."


Okay, I'll take that as "I don't know why I said what I did."

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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 10:04 Edited at: 10th Dec 2003 10:09
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Quote: "Okay, I'll take that as "I don't know why I said what I did.""

Thats just as valid as anything else.

I wouldn't think Merv is the Devil - its more like Smith. Merv could be regarded as an evil spirit.


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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 17:14
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Isn't the devil a fallen angel (I think) in christian mythology? In that case, neither Smith nor Merv really fit; Merv was created a mercenary and Smith was made in the matrix. See, and if the matrix is hell, then the Architect, who created it, far better fits the role of devil than god ... my take? The Bros didn't put that much meaning behind it. But who knows.

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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 17:35 Edited at: 10th Dec 2003 17:40
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Quote: "Smith was made in the matrix"

By Neo - at least he was unplugged by Neo, and thus able to do what he wants, and thus fell from the system.

Quote: "and if the matrix is hell"

Which it isn't.

Quote: "then the Architect, who created it, far better fits the role of devil than god"

No, because the Architect made the Matrix and was a source of life.


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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 17:48
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Ah, so the matrix is 'life', then? Dosen't exactly work as an analogy-- you can be 'unplugged' whenever you accept the truth, instead of at death, and you're every bit as mortal in the 'real world' (IE heaven)-- but I suppose it makes sense.

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Essentially yes - although you could also state that until you are unplugged from the system (ie you release the world around you is computer-generated), you are dead...


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 19:00
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Smith and the Agents could be given the roles of angels, however the difference is that they're not all powerful like Maciavelli.

Agents do not directly talk to the Architect, nor were they created by him. The system created them itself to deal with the Human problem it saw.
This is why the Exile programs were hunted by them even though they were doing exactly as the Architect had planned.

The System "Life" works on it's own rules, for it's own goals.
The Architect "God" created it and specific programs in order to give humans the illusion of choice and hope so that they would want to live within both the Matrix world and the Real world.

the Matrix represents the world we're currently in, with little control from actual god.
the Real world represents the Celestial Plane... god is also unable to physically touch that realm as well. Effectively he is in a purgetory of heaven he can see everything that is happeneing, but cannot do a thing to alter anything.

Neo is effectively given the choice, to Die so that everyone may be reborn... or to forsake god so that everyone maybe free.
Maciavelli being the OLDEST program created to maintain order within the matrix, fell from the said graces for power. (sounds EXACTLY like what Lucifa is portrayed through the years, yet not within the bible itself)

It also plays into the hands that the world without god is just an illusion created by him to serve the purpose that life with him seems better.

^_^ so really in a way the "Real" world is hell. And people are volentarily going there to be out of the control of someone else.


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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 19:33
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I would think Smith is more powerful than Merv, as he has the ability to overwrite another agent/computer program, although what would happen if Smith and the Twins fought, is anyones guess.

Merv controls the train line and generally interferes 'behind the scenes', while Smith likes getting his hands dirty (figuratively speaking).


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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 19:36
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And people think Revolutions and Reloaded are one-dimensional films


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--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 20:03
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Mirrors are more fun than television. Well, that was fun, in a not-so-fun sort of way...
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HZence
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 20:21
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Quote: "christian mythology"



LOL, good one mouse.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 20:51
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yeah but consider this a moment... Merv is capable of rewriting the matrix as he sees fit.
Smith on the other hand is only capable of rewriting other programs and only because of something that Neo did to him by accident.

Technically Smith is more of a demonic posession in that sense, because he was suppose to have been deleted yet decided to posess more souls.

but still is a part of Neo, even since the first "The One" lol


Detonating a nuclear device within the city limits results in a $500 fine!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 21:09
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We dont actually see Merv re-write part of matrix. The cake, as he said himself was his own creation and thus an addition to it.

Dont forget that Smith was able to not only be in the matrix, the real world, but also in the corridors between the different sections of the matrix.


Mirrors are more fun than television. Well, that was fun, in a not-so-fun sort of way...
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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 21:27
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'LOL, good one mouse.'

Good one? I was just looking at it as I look at religion in general ...

'We dont actually see Merv re-write part of matrix.'

He's certainly got root access for Club Hel tho

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Dec 2003 21:40
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True...


Mirrors are more fun than television. Well, that was fun, in a not-so-fun sort of way...
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