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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Raw-Textures? TIFF, PNG? From FPSC Classic OpenSource?

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Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
10
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Joined: 17th Apr 2007
Location: Berlin
Posted: 1st Nov 2016 13:38 Edited at: 1st Nov 2016 13:43
Hallo,

since the FPSC Creator and a lot of model packs are free for download, and also AGK2 can load *.X-Files, Animations and OBJ-Files, it is possible, to use the models in AGK2, there is a tiny "problem".
AGK2 does not support DXT-Textures.

I tried to convert them to PNG and JPEG, but since the DXT-textures are also compressed with artefacts (DXT is not lossless), I wanted to know, if there are also older texture packs with JPEG or PNG, without DXT compression.
And or Raw-Files, Photoshop or TIFF, without artefacts,

https://github.com/LeeBamberTGC/FPS-Creator-Classic

This would be great also for future projects where other texture-formats are used. Like ATSC
https://developer.nvidia.com/astc-texture-compression-for-game-assets

Thanks for ideas and help.
For info:
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bJ-D1xXEeg
bossisly
6
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th Aug 2010
Location:
Posted: 3rd Nov 2016 06:16
You will need to convert your JPEG textures to DDS (DirectDraw). Over the years, I have collected many free entities from FPS creator enthusiasts sites. And with the passage of time and numerous updates for FPS those entities began failing to work. Their original textures were not DDS formatted. The solution I came up with was to update the entities and textures using Entity Workshop. Entity Workshop will automatically convert your textures to the DDS format.

If you like making your own entities and are using Bender, Milkshape, or another 3-D modeling application Entity Workshop is the ideal application for scaling your 3-D models for FPS creator classic. I use Entity Workshop for the completion of many entities I have created.

If you do not have entity workshop it is still available for free. You can download it at http://games.alyssar.nl/entityworkshop/

I hope this information was useful for you.

My best regards to you and everyone.
Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Apr 2007
Location: Berlin
Posted: 3rd Nov 2016 09:03
@bossisly,

I wanted the other way arround. Not the DDS files with DXT-compression. In AGK2 I can load many of the FPSC *.X files, but textures in DDS (DXT) are not supported. I can use JPEG or PNG. BUT!!! The DDS-Files are lossy compressed. So if I compress them to JPEG they will only look worse.
So my question is, if they where at anytime before in the past in JPEG, TARGA; TIFF etc., BEFORE everybody comressed them to DXT lossy DDS this would be a great starting point for a new compression.

Photoshop or what ever

PSD (maybe layered) ==> JPEG (in most cases lossy) ==> DDS (with lossy DXT) ==> JPEG (more lost)

Original ==> FPSC 1 ==> FPSC Classic DDS ==> AGK2

If I could use the first created Texture from PSD or the JPEG this would be a much nicer texture quality. So my question is, if anybody could direct me to the source or has any idea, if the FPSC Classic OpenSource Project will also provide the NOT DXT compressed (DDS) textures.


Thanks a lot for the link.

Best regards
Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Apr 2007
Location: Berlin
bossisly
6
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th Aug 2010
Location:
Posted: 4th Nov 2016 03:50
I watched the YouTube video with the address you provided. I like the concept they have for image file compression. However, the technique they outline is incompatible with FPS creator classic. It would be nice if it were compatible. As I recall FPS creator classic uses the Dark Basic language whereas other game engines uses C+ or C++ language.

Granted there are some limitations with FPS creator classic. However, the benefits of FPS creator classic far outweigh the limitations. FPS creator classic is more than a game engine it is a creation wizard. All creation wizards have their own unique limitations. This is not a criticism. Creation wizards offer talented people with no or little programming knowledge the ability to create software. Programming wizards have been around since the early 1990s. I believe the first programming wizard was Computer Magic. It allowed people with absolutely no programming knowledge to create window applications for PCs.

It seems that you are striving for maximum quality while at the same time optimizing for the smallest file size possible. Through bitter experience I achieved one or the other but not both of them. For maximum quality, the texture map should be 1024 X 1024. You can reduce the file size of the texture map by reducing its size to 512 X 512 and still maintain respectable quality. Should you reduce the size of the texture map any further the texture quality will suffer greatly.

Many of the entities that came with my original copy of FPS creator the texture maps were formatted in TGA. After all the updates that were installed on my copy of FPS creator they are still working flawlessly. However, the entities that I got from FPS creator enthusiasts websites had DDS and TGA texture maps. Over the course of years with all the updates for FPS creator those entities with TGA texture maps began failing to work. Why the third party entities failed and the original entities that came with my copy of FPS creator with the same TGA format still worked is a mystery. I just attribute it to the nature of the proverbial beast. To ensure functionality of your entities it is best to use the DDS format for your texture maps.

For creating my texture maps for entities, I use GIMP and I use Art Weaver to create the thumbnails for the entities. I hope the information I have provided may have been of some use for you.

The YouTube video you shared I found to be educational, interesting and enjoyable to watch.

Your quest to think outside of the proverbial box for maximum quality while at the same time not to tax the game engine tells me you are just the sort of person who will be making awesome games. I wish you the best of success in your endeavors.
Xaby
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Apr 2007
Location: Berlin
Posted: 6th Nov 2016 20:12
My question is, where can I get the Targa files? I understand, that I only can use DDS with FPS C. But I want to use AGK2 for some other things like AI programming, Physics, Sounds, WebGL etc. To have more controll about what happend. I also want sequential loading. So that you can start your game after some seconds, only the first room is loaded, and while you are working around, the other rooms will be loaded in the background. Like Texture Streaming.

AKG2 only supports PNG and JPEG. So I can't use the DDS files directly. I convert them with XnConvert to PNG in the first step. But to fact that DDS is already lossy compressed this will result in bigger PNG filesize, because I will also store artefacts from the DDS. So my idea and hope is, that the Targa file will have smooth color transitions, less noise and would result in smaller and nicer looking PNGs while encoding them with XnConvert.

That my conversion path could be:

Targa (lossless) ==> PNG (lossless) ==> scanning for transparence, if no trancparence: ==> JPEG (lossy)

I also thinking of dimension reducing like you said, not smaller than 512 px by 512 px for most textures. Don't need 2048 x 2048 or larger for most of the objects. And some smaller objects will look fine and sharp with 256 x 256. I want do automate most of the process. But I have not the Targas (anymore). Or in other words, if I want to make it available for others, because it is some work, and maybe someone finds it neat, I could provide it, BUT, only if the textures are also FREE. Or I have to redraw most of the things.

The model packs from the free source only contain the DDS files. That is my "problem". I don't know, if I could improve the quality if I would using Targa Originals instead of DDS, but I want to try it. But there the FPSC Classic guys came in. I need some help, to get the Targa files. Or I will stuck with the Free provided DDS files.

Will the FPSC Classic comunity get something out of it? I don't realy know, but this project I had in mind could provide a set of good quality textures with a small amount of reqired disk space. For the FPSC Classic community I could convert the Targas also in FPSC Classic compatible better looking DXT compressed DDS files. With newer tools some quality could be improved.

Mostly this is for the idea, to convert FPSC Classic "games", levels to AGK2. I don't know, if anybody cares. But I wanted to try And I saw, that textures have most space for improvement. Also to improve loading times from levels. Because JPEG and or PNG decompression is very slow.

AGK2 I think will not have support for DXT DDS compression, because this is mostly not supported in OpenGL ES 2.1 So thats why I am trying to work around.

So maybe you know a source to get the Targas for the provided FPSC Classic models from the https://github.com/LeeBamberTGC/FPS-Creator-Classic
bossisly
6
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Joined: 30th Aug 2010
Location:
Posted: 7th Nov 2016 08:18
To get the textures you are looking for you can try to contact the game creators and explain to them what you are trying to accomplish and ask them if they would supply you with the legacy TGA textures you are looking fore. If they are reluctant, download a copy of the original free version of FPS creator. To get an original free version of FPS creator like the one I got years ago you will need to get it from a third party website. Once you have downloaded the original free version just extract the TGA texture maps from the texture bank.

To find a third-party website that offers the original free version of FPS creator type in the search field of your preferred search engine “FPS creator free download”. You will get several thousand results. You will undoubtedly have to go through several pages of results before you find a website that actually has the original free version of FPS creator. Many of the websites are so encumbered with advertising links making it extremely difficult to find the actual download link.

Your project is ambitious to make FPS creator classic more advanced. I hope you succeed.

I have an afterthought. You might try seeking help from those who are using Dark Basic. The reason I make this suggestion is because FPS creator was created with Dark Basic as well as the updates for FPS creator and many of the third-party tools for FPS creator were also created with Dark Basic. Keep in mind that many of the users of Dark Basic are unaware that FPS creator uses the Dark Basic programming language. When you post your request for help on their forum explained to them in great detail as what you are trying to accomplish. I am confident that the more experienced users of Dark Basic can be of help to you. It would not surprise me that some of them would find it to be an interesting challenge in aiding you with your project.

I wish you my best regards.

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