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AppGameKit Classic Chat / My command / feature wishlist

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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 01:36 Edited at: 31st Mar 2017 02:31
BorderlessMode (on/off) // when activated , ignores any window and uses the full screen for any graphic / text

CreateWindow (#ID, Offset x, Offsety, Size_x, Size_y, #Properties) // creates additional window(s) with given properties

* GetPixelColor (x,y) : Get PixelColorImage (x,y) : GetPixelColorSprite (x,y) : // Returning the Color inclusive Alpha, relative to Window / Image / Sprite coordinates

More polygons for sprites, more drawing commands ( fill, ... / drawing to window(coordinates) )

Possibilty to remove the AppGameKit - Frame from HTML Exports & to set the window icon - While it can be done with HTML editing and third party tools, i don't like to idea of hacking my "own" program - it should be a standard feature.

Smaller Executables


to be extended


* commands / features marked with a * are possible to code, but a simplified command / feature is still appreciated - (yayaya, "write your own function toolbox !" - i hear you saying)


With the future possibilty of creating dlls , this post might be outdated, except the parts that can't be coded.
blink0k
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 03:02
SetWindowSize() has a third parameter that when set to 1 will make the window full screen without borders

I think you could get those Pixel values using memblocks
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 03:36
I thought it would be funny if one could use the whole screen for graphics, even if the window was small - like objects suddenly come out of the window and sit down on the taskbar or something -
but thanks for pointing out the fullscreen feature, i wasn't aware of that.

Guess I have to check out the Memblocks commands - haven't dvelved into them yet

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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 03:49
Thanks for the input, seems to be doable with CreateMemblockFromImage ()
Carharttguy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 08:50
Hi

Some reflections on your wish list:

BorderlessMode (on/off) // when activated , ignores any window and uses the full screen for any graphic / text
The use case for this is very small. It could be possible the day that DLL functions can be called.

CreateWindow (#ID, Offset x, Offsety, Size_x, Size_y, #Properties) // creates additional window(s) with given properties
With a different game loop? And add an extra parameter to nearly all functions named "WindowID"?
Or the same game loop, as a mirror?
It would be way cleaner to just make another game, and give us Shell access (on Desktop) so we can call and start a new program.

* GetPixelColor (x,y) : Get PixelColorImage (x,y) : GetPixelColorSprite (x,y) : // Returning the Color inclusive Alpha, relative to Window / Image / Sprite coordinates

Could be useful for some people. Altough, the code to accomplish this is very easy and more something for a community function list or something like that.

Possibilty to remove the AppGameKit - Frame from HTML Exports & to set the window icon

This could be handy, but you cannot do good for everyone on this one. Remove AppGameKit frame, so only a white page with in the upperleft a canvas? Or have the option to get it centered? And the option to choose a back color? Or a background image? Or place the canvas where you want using x & y? And have the option to stretch the canvas to cover the whole webpage? And have the ability to change the title of the page?

The posibilities are endless, and AppGameKit would be more of an HTML generator. I have nothing against HTML generators, but there are plenty of them and it's way beyond the scope of AGK.

This is just my opinion, feel free to discuss!
Mobiius
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 08:59
Quote: "Possibilty to remove the AppGameKit - Frame from HTML Exports"

You already can, it's a plain HTML file so you can edit how you see fit. It's not TGCs responsibility to customise the HTML5 webpage for everyones uses. You can do it yourself, as I have here.
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 09:20 Edited at: 28th Mar 2017 09:21
For me it's simply about expanding ideas for AGK. Of course - ANY command itself is small and only interesting for a small number of people - but cummulated they make a great toolkit.

It's not about responsibility - i think it is in TGC's interest to provide a toolbox as good as possible - i am not CLAIMING that i have the right to have the features included - it's simply about expanding with features that many would like.

I don't want anybody to customize my HTML page - i just want features to customize it myself as easy as possible - that's what a game engine is about right ? making things as easy as possible
Carharttguy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 09:33
Don't get my wrong Increase, my post wasn't negative or something. Sorry if you feel attacked by it.

For me it's simply about expanding ideas for AGK. Of course - ANY command itself is small and only interesting for a small number of people - but cummulated they make a great toolkit.

That's true, and expanding ideas is always good. But in my opinion it's better to invest time in commands/functions that can't be coded by yourself or the community.

E.g.: Access to bluetooth.
I won't never use it, lot's of people would never use this, but it's a core mechanic that opens so many doors to create new things.

Another example: UDP
I might be use it, lot's of people won't. But having access to this technology opens the door for fast paced online games that are now impossible with AGK.

I think it would be best to just be able to distribute AppGameKit Tier 1 code in a 'compiled' format and have some kind of repository where everybody could upload there function or collection of functions. You need GetPixel()? Download it in the repository. Need a json encoder, get it in the repository. Need bluetooth, get it.. Oh wait, it's impossible to code that in AGK. So that's where the focus of Paul should be.

Just my 2 cents.
Mobiius
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 09:38
Quote: " that's what a game engine is about right ? "

AGK ISN'T a game engine. It's a programming language.
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 09:58
That's true, and expanding ideas is always good. But in my opinion it's better to invest time in commands/functions that can't be coded by yourself or the community.

I agree, core commands should have priority to 'so so' expansions. I'd love to see network/multiplayer improvements. Still,huge collections, even of these "small" commands, can in cummulation decrease the codelength by a mile, when they suddly come in handy here and there.

I think it would be best to just be able to distribute AppGameKit Tier 1 code in a 'compiled' format and have some kind of repository where everybody could upload there function or collection of functions.

I agree; it would be great if there was something like an inbuilt library - where created functions or code could be called as a standard Tier 1 command and also be shared in a compact format.

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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 10:04
AGK ISN'T a game engine. It's a programming language.

You are a bit nitpicky, right ?

A progamming language designed to create games & software easier - call it programming language, call it game engine - for me it makes no difference.

BASIC poshed up with great functionality and usabilty.
Scraggle
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 10:18
Quote: "You are a bit nitpicky, right ?"

No he isn't!
Quote: "call it programming language, call it game engine - for me it makes no difference."

Yes it does!

AGK is a programming language. If you want to use a game engine then download one of the many engines that are available. AppGameKit isn't one of them.
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 10:23
So u think AppGameKit should be removed from SLANT as No.1 of "What are the best 2D game engines?"
Carharttguy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 10:32
Hmh, not sure on this one.
I think it's open for debate.

AGK Tier 1 is indeed a programming language, or is it a game framework for the Basic language?
And what's the difference between a framework and an engine?

AGK Tier 2 is def not a programming language. It's a game library.

So Unreal Engine is no game engine? Unreal Engine is just a C++ developed core with UnrealScript. So Unreal is a programming language.

Engine, framework, library, all used exchangeable.

IMO, AppGameKit is comparable to Unreal Engine. Yes it's a language, but it's a language mostly made to develop games. Making it an engine (the core) for games. Making it a game engine.

But, as said before, it's open for debate. Just like the comparison of programming vs scripting. Tomayto, tomahto.
Mobiius
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 10:41 Edited at: 28th Mar 2017 10:43
Quote: "So Unreal Engine is no game engine? Unreal Engine is just a C++ developed core with UnrealScript. So Unreal is a programming language."

Unreal is a game engine.
Unreal will allow you to create a full game without ever CODING anything, it has built in level editor/networking/physics etc. (Note, scripting is not coding!)
UnrealScript is an interpreted scripting language. (Only runs in the Unreal ENGINE)

AGK Tier 1 is a programming language
AGK REQUIRES you to write code, it makes networking/physics simpler, but you still need to implement every subsystem yourself.

AGK Tier 2 is a game library. Requires you to code your game, but provides a middle ground between language and engine.
C++ is a programming language. (Compiles to a native executable file.

That's the difference between an engine and a language. (And a library)

Engine/Library/Language absolutely cannot be used interchangeably. They are completely different kinds of development entirely...
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Carharttguy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 10:59
I will apply the things you say to AGK

Quote: "C++ is a programming language. (Compiles to a native executable file.) "

AGK player is written in C++
Quote: "UnrealScript is an interpreted scripting language. (Only runs in the Unreal ENGINE)"

AGK Basic is an interpreted scripting language. It only runs in the AppGameKit player.
Quote: "
Unreal will allow you to create a full game without ever CODING anything, it has built in level editor/networking/physics etc. (Note, scripting is not coding!)
AGK REQUIRES you to write code, it makes networking/physics simpler, but you still need to implement every subsystem yourself.
That's the difference between an engine and a language. (And a library)"


It's impossible to create an Unreal game without coding. You will always have to apply game logic, being it either by typing code or use some visual programming language.
Or is a visual programming language not a programming language?

Or are only tools that provide a way to create games without actually typing code engines?

With this logic, following list of game engines define themselves completely wrong. (And Wikipedia is wrong on a lot of "game engines"):

-Unity
-CryEngine (They even have there name wrong. Silly people over there.)
-jMonkey
-Panda3D
-Godot Engine
-Hero Engine
-Source Engine
-Torque3D
-...

And many, many others.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying it's not as black and white as stated. It's open for interpretation.
For everything you say I could prob find something to refute it and vica versa.

Engine, Framework, Library, Tool, Creator, ...
BatVink
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 11:30
Quote: "It would be way cleaner to just make another game, and give us Shell access (on Desktop) so we can call and start a new program."


This is already possible
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
Mobiius
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 11:46
Quote: "AGK Basic is an interpreted scripting language. It only runs in the AppGameKit player."

Then AppGameKit is a scripting language, still not a game engine.]
Quote: "It's impossible to create an Unreal game without coding. "

No it isn't, as you script it.
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Markus
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Posted: 28th Mar 2017 12:09 Edited at: 28th Mar 2017 12:17
Quote: "GetPixelColor (x,y) "

its more access to the graphics buffer which act different on android os versions.
i wish agk have it own graphics memory.
because agk using a virtual resolution GetImage need a from to coordinate with float values to read something from backbuffer.

Quote: "CreateWindow "

the freedom with CreateWindow i am mission too but it have a conflict with code once and smart phones.

Quote: "AGK ISN'T a game engine. It's a programming language."

programming language with focus at inde game development & multiplatforms as possible.
i would say a "engine" is a toolbox where everything you need for create a game is ready to use.
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blink0k
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 00:21
To elaborate on Mr Vink's post you can run another .exe using this command Run App()
You will need to write/read parameters to a file in order pass parameters between the two programs because you cannot read the command line in Tier 1
tmu
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 15:22
Ah terminological and/or programming language (flame) wars. How I miss the them.. (NOT)

I would like to have a map style data structure. Or is it already somehow available but I just haven't figured it out?

Also, I would like to have some means to structure the code a bit more. I haven't managed to figure out how to do sub-folders in the code-tree. And having hundreds or more of globals gets a bit difficult so to say. Any hints appreciated of course..
Markus
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Posted: 29th Mar 2017 15:41
@tmu
Quote: "map style data structure"

u can use an more dimensional array with your own user defined type?
this?
foldstart
foldstart
foldend
foldend

globals you should also put into a type, so you can define them once and can access it better via dot.
type TGlo
a
b
c
endtype
global g as TGlo
if g.a then


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tmu
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Posted: 30th Mar 2017 12:37 Edited at: 30th Mar 2017 12:37
@markus

Thanks for the suggestions. Using custom types to scope global variables sounds like a potentially very useful idea.

I do not quite understand your example of multidimensional arrays in types for maps? Do you have some example?
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Posted: 30th Mar 2017 21:58
Possibilty to remove the AppGameKit - Frame from HTML Exports & to set the window icon

This could be handy, but you cannot do good for everyone on this one. Remove AppGameKit frame, so only a white page with in the upperleft a canvas? Or have the option to get it centered? And the option to choose a back color? Or a background image? Or place the canvas where you want using x & y? And have the option to stretch the canvas to cover the whole webpage? And have the ability to change the title of the page?

These are good suggestions, IMO , not only for HTML5 , but for all platforms - and maybe a lot of this commands could be cross platform compatible.

The posibilities are endless, and AppGameKit would be more of an HTML generator. I have nothing against HTML generators, but there are plenty of them and it's way beyond the scope of AGK.

I disagree in this point, i think including some html5 feature would require a rather small time investment compared to other improvement sections - and since i assume AppGameKit won't close the doors anytime soon, why not make a little sidestep to HTML5 - however, when it comes to priority, there might be things
that are more important. My suggestion wasn't directed so much to HTML5, rather than having the ability to remove any branding / AppGameKit adverts from "own" creations.

But now, with *.dll(s) announced, AppGameKit Studio and much more - a lot of this post might be outdated soon (or already is).



damothegreat
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Posted: 30th Mar 2017 22:08
I love seeing all these requests for new things.

But in a TGC point of view, I would expect all these things time and money to tweak AppGameKit with new things.

The AppGameKit costed £79 when I got it, but the amont of feature requests by now, they should up the price to be competitive to Unity. at least £200

How much was AMOS back in the day.... more than £150

We ask too many things for TGC for the £80 mark.

TGC are developing a game development system for us, when we create and deploy - we sell - we make money - TGC doesn't make anything from those sells

So may suggestion to Rick / TGC is up the price of this
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Posted: 30th Mar 2017 23:31 Edited at: 30th Mar 2017 23:38
@damothegreat

But in a TGC point of view, I would expect all these things time and money to tweak AppGameKit with new things.

This is true & I already address it in the post "My AppGameKit Visions" .
To sum it up, I would much rather pay a few quid here and there for an update or expansion, if that would make for a faster development - but this is of course very dependent of one's personal preference, and i guess some would totally disagree.


The AppGameKit costed £79 when I got it, but the amont of feature requests by now, they should up the price to be competitive to Unity.

For my personal preference, AppGameKit is already now not only competitive to UNITY, but flatout better.

The reason for this is that when a projects get bigger and game logic heavier, all the advantages from a graphical editor turn into disadvantages
and suddenly the codework - which at first seemed a lot of work to do - speeds up : it's clearer , a lot of functions are already generated and
a lightweight engine with scripts is more solid and error/breakdown resitant than a graphical filled environment.

Now one could argue, that (e.g.) Unity (this goes for a lot of engines)
has also a scripting language - but there comes another point : Give anybody the syntax of any language & list of all commands & describe
their usage correctly --- and anybody can program in any language.

And there's actually the catch : a LOT of engines (especially free ones) are not well documented.

How can i know whether I call a Network Connection by "CallNetwork" , "NetCon" , "SetupNet" , "@netgo" or "HeyVickyVicky!()" -
I CAN'T if it's not documented - and it has nothing to do with coding skills - because it would just be about guessing what the language creator might have had in mind,
when i don't have a well explained syntax and commandset.

So u have u ask - and you really don't want to have to ask a lot - because it takes time, because it's annoying - because u will have to do it probably a thousand times
if there is no good documentation.

While there is - in my opinion - still room for improvement in the AppGameKit documentation (a few things missing) , i think the framework is pointing exactly in the right direction.
Most commands/syntaxes are explained lightweight (important, so one doesn't get messed up in a flood of unnecessary text), but still correct and understandable.

A GUI has it benefits in terms of speed, if it's for design or a simple game logic - so i appreciate AppGameKit Studio - I also like to work with Construct 2, because it's simply very fast
for projects on the easier side - but if u don't have the possibilty of complete source / script code access and/or no good documentation - u probably don't want your project to become
too big.

Another big advantage of AppGameKit is that it is rather independent - you aren't forced to sign up to any third party services if u want to deploy.



TGC are developing a game development system for us, when we create and deploy - we sell - we make money - TGC doesn't make anything from those sells

While this is true, creating a game which produces a reasonable amount of money is nowadays no walk in the park either, because by the same logic that there are so powerful game engines out there - there is a flood of so-so games for a very small price and often for free.

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