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Geek Culture / anyone good with electrical wiring?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 27th Oct 2017 22:53
I'm rewiring my bathroom because it's a mess. I've drawn up a diagram of how I think it should be wired, but I'm no electrician. I've run a few things myself without problem, but I've never had to branch off to this many things before. Since the bathroom wall with the wiring is shared with the kitchen on the other side, I have one outlet over the counter in the kitchen which will be on this same circuit along with 1 outlet in the bathroom and 2 switches to control 2 different lights (exhaust fan and vanity lights). Halfway through, I stopped drawing the ground wires because it was just taking up space in the drawing and it's pretty self-explanatory how those work.

I've looked at many diagrams online and as far as I can tell, this is how it's done.

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds

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revenant chaos
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Posted: 28th Oct 2017 02:52 Edited at: 28th Oct 2017 03:02
Hi Phaelax, The picture looks good to me:
Everything is wired in parallel (not counting switches), Hot [black] wire being switched, maximum of 3 wires per nut (use a pigtail if you need more than 3 wires per nut).
Just be sure to only make connections within junction/gang boxes, and connect black-to-gold and white-to-silver when making connections to receptacles/fixtures.
It is also a good idea to install GFCI receptacles around sinks/water if they aren't already of that type. Best of luck man.


[Edit] Glad i looked again, those switches shouldnt be connected to neutral [white] in any way. The extra connection (usually green) is for ground.
Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Oct 2017 04:29
The bathroom and kitchen is all gfci, I installed two new ones in the kitchen for the fridge and oven. (gas oven, power is only for display and igniter)

I think you're right about the neutral wires now that I think about it. Wouldn't serve any purpose really.

The old junction box in the wall had no cover. They simply puttied mud over the box opening. House was built in '41. Crawling around the attic after I ripped out that box and old wire, turns out I just killed power to half my house. I had one wire being branched off so many times; my bathroom, two bedrooms, kitchen light, and hallway light were all on the same circuit. I see it branch off one last time in the basement, but haven't figured out where it goes yet. Appears to possibly run outside. I have my work cut out for me tomorrow.

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
BatVink
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Posted: 28th Oct 2017 08:45
We UK dwellers have an immediate problem with your diagram...we don't put electrical sockets in bathrooms! The only exception is a shaver socket, which has additional protective features.

"My wife told me to get her some bath products for her birthday. I got her a toaster. She didn't appreciate it one bit."
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Posted: 29th Oct 2017 13:27
Quote: "...we don't put electrical sockets in bathrooms! "


EU regulations allow regular sockets in bathrooms as long as they are at least 66cm away from the edge of the bath/shower or something like that. Pretty bonkers if you ask me.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 30th Oct 2017 20:33
I used gfci outlets, which regulations require in the bathroom and kitchen here.

I got everything wired up now, except for the exhaust fan. The wires are in place I just haven't put the new one in yet, the old one is still connected.

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
Phaelax
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Posted: 9th Nov 2017 15:36
Found my outlets like this in the bedrooms. Anyone know if you're allowed to ground it that way?

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 9th Nov 2017 16:34
Are you trying to run a wire from the hot (black) to ground? If so, DO NOT DO THAT!
What exactly are you trying to do? Are you replacing the receptacle?
a.k.a WOLF!
revenant chaos
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Posted: 9th Nov 2017 16:54 Edited at: 9th Nov 2017 17:08
No, that is potentially unsafe. When you plugin in a grounded appliance, the appliance's casing is directly attached to the ground wire. This is to prevent users from being shocked in the event that the device fails in a manner which causes the casing to become live (hot wire is touching the casing from the inside, filled with water, etc..). The ground wire provides a return path for the energy, and should trip the breaker due to the casing's low resistance.

The way it is installed in the picture would mean appliance casings are attached to the neutral. In most cases that would work as intended, but still don't do it! If the neutral wire were to ever become broken/disconnected, energy would be allowed to flow: from the hot, through the circuit, out to the receptacle's neutral, then back in through the appliance's ground. At this point, touching the appliance casing would mean completing the circuit with your body (casing->you->earth).
Seditious
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Posted: 9th Nov 2017 18:59
Earth should never be connected to neither line nor neutral (the latter can cause the GFCI/RCD to trip in some cases).
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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Nov 2017 13:39
Just to clarify, the ground is being connected to the neutral. I thought about it for a minute and it kind of makes sense. If trying to install grounded outlets in an old house where wiring did not include a ground, this would be one way to do it. Since your neutral and ground wires connect to the same bar in the breaker box anyway, aren't they ultimately connected regardless?

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds
revenant chaos
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Posted: 10th Nov 2017 18:54 Edited at: 10th Nov 2017 19:17
The connection between neutral and ground within the breaker box is to ensure neutral is pulled down to the same potential as ground (0v) at that particular point in the circuit. It is important to note that potential is not a constant value/state of a conductor, it refers to a measurement between two different points along a conductor. The point where neutral connects to the appliance is live (when powered on), but because neutral is pulled down to ground within the breaker it creates a difference of potential across the neutral and allows energy to flow. If neutral and ground are tied together within the receptacle, your appliances are grounded to a point along neutral which has a potential higher than ground, and can lead to being shocked. Under normal operating conditions there should never be a difference of potential across the ground wire, and therefore no risk of being shocked when touching it. The connection between neutral and ground within the breaker also helps to counter act currents which may be induced within neutral by current flowing through hot. Without a proper connection to ground, the potential between hot and neutral at the receptacle may be influenced by those induced currents and cause electronics to misbehave.
Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Nov 2017 12:18
So basically, it may not have a consistent behavior and may or may not cause problems. At least that's how I understood what you just said. I'm running new wire anyway, it's just a pain trying to remove the old conduit from inside the walls. So far, the bedrooms are the only rooms I haven't removed any drywall.

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds

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