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Geek Culture / Who's switched to Win10?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 12:31
And did you like it? Due to complicated work-arounds I heard installing Win7 onto an nvme drive, I made the jump to Win10 for my new computer. So far there's been a learning curve, since they wanted to rearrange and rename everything. Aesthetically speaking, I don't like it. Window backgrounds bright white and everything flat just looks dumb and frankly it's harder on the eyes. I'll try not to turn this post into a venting rage.

So my PC decided to update itself last night. Not only do I not even know what was updated, because no longer does it provide a list of updates it just does it blindly, it rebooted my PC on my behalf. I woke up at 5:30 this morning to the beep the pc makes when it reboots. Why is automatically rebooting an absolutely horrible idea? For one, unsaved work. I had a text document I was using to write down notes as I backed up various network drives.

The other issue? Before I went to bed I started file transfer of somewhere around 150GB. I knew it'd take awhile so I did it before bed. Did it finish? I have no idea. Sure the folders it created are all there, but now I don't know if it actually finished or not. It could have corrupted my data for all I know. Verifying it all would take forever. I could redo the transfer and have it overwrite everything just to be safe, but again that takes hours. I have since disabled anything and everything to do with automatic updates. As well as disable numerous other popups and annoyances. (quick asking me to link my phone!) The vast number of options I've seen in settings still all point towards Win10 being designed for a tablet, not a desktop user.

Oh, and since this last update, only 1 out of 4 network devices show up. 3 of them I have the manually type it to access. And the one that actually does show up on its own, windows says it can't access it.


If I didn't have so many things relying on using windows, I probably would've switched to mac by now, assuming they haven't gotten worse too.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 16:13 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2018 16:14
I switched to W10 when it was offered to existing W7 users. I consider that to be one of the biggest mistakes of my life. The transition broke all sorts of things - and some apparently permanently. Unfortunately I missed my chance to roll back to W7 because there was a time limit on that And I didn't realize .

I thought W7 was probably the cleanest version of windows I've used with XP a close second.

You are not alone.

To be fair, my new desktop came with W10 pre-installed and I've had fewer problems with that.

One very annoying thing is that I can't get Windows Live Mail on either of my W10 machines and the new mail program refuses to connect to my usual mail server - and, to rub salt in the wound, the email provider's Online Help Chat staff told me that they weren't trained to give help on email problems!! I'm still (almost ) lost for words on that. I've used the same provider for about 25 years and they say their staff aren't trained in its use... All they came up with was to suggest I consult the vendor of the Mail program...
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 21:34
Don't know what all the fuss was about I switch over a year ago and not had any issues with only software. I clung onto XP back in the day but that was for good reason.
Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 22:01
Quote: "very annoying thing is that I can't get Windows Live Mail "

I use Thunderbird

I still can't access my NAS, I've tried every thing at this point. I think the headache to install 7 on my nvme would be less stress than dealing with this crap.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 23:16
Quote: "Don't know what all the fuss was about I switch over a year ago and not had any issues with only software."


You're lucky. Several older games which used to work on W7 no longer work on W10 (although some can be patched by hunting down a missing DLL etc.). I haven't been able to get Texture Maker to work consistently - and the Windows Essentials download doesn't seem to be available anymore. (I think that was what was needed for Windows Live Mail - all I have now is Windows Dead Mail ). All in all it is a pain - a far cry from the relatively painless transition to W7.
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 02:42 Edited at: 5th Mar 2018 02:43
There are some nice things about Win10, but unfortunately the terrible things outweigh them.

Win10 seems a lot more responsive in general. It boots really fast, programs launch faster, ending a task in task manager actually kills the program within 1-2 seconds. It also has better permission policies.

The flat UI looks bad and makes it hard to tell where the window borders are if you have multiple windows open.

It has multiple desktops, so welcome to 1995 I guess, but they implemented it in the worst, most unproductive way possible. There are no hotkeys to jump to specific desktops, you have to scroll through all of them. There are no hotkeys to move windows between desktops. Getting to the window you want is really time consuming.

They still managed to screw up alt+tab on multi-monitor setups. Win7 does this too. I'd really like to have a separate stack per monitor, otherwise alt-tab often just switches between the two active windows you have open on both monitors, which is completely useless.

Auto-focusing windows when you mouse over takes 1 second for the window to focus instead of instantaneously focusing it. Super annoying.

There are a few features that are impossible to stop, such as cortana. It still runs even if you disable it.

Being forced to reboot your computer to install updates is really bad.

I've also found that a lot of programs and games I use no longer work on win 10.
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BatVink
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 08:09
Ah, you've made the mistake of not upgrading to Win 10 Megaprise Ultra.
Anything less, and you have to babysit your PC whenever it is switched on, for fear it may do literally anything without your approval.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 08:37 Edited at: 5th Mar 2018 08:38
Even if it asks for your approval.

Cue Seppuku’s rant about the two creator updates. “Remind me tomorrow” means to remind me tomorrow not wait until I’ve nipped to the shop to start the update, which takes 3 or 4 hours. An update, which now provides me random crashes, which i’ve tried all troubleshooting for, there are a handful of people experiencing this. Sadly there is no pattern to them, making them harder to troubleshoot.

My recommendation might be to turn off the feature updates to stop things like the creator updates, they don’t include security updates or bug fixes, so it is safe to do so. Each time they release one they’ve not added anything useful to me and you can still do it manually if anything tickles your fancy and have the spare time to run it.


Aside from those niggles, I like it as an OS.
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 08:40
I switched to win 10 1-2 years ago.
Not really hard issues in this time.
And never make an upgrade from a previous version.Ever a clean install.My 2 cents.
Supertino
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 11:31
The only two issues with Win10 I've had was shadow-play not working until you download the Media pack but not really a windows 10 issue just a EU bureaucrats making M$ take it out for the UK\EU version cus' of 'reasons'. The other is scaling, using two 1440p screens older apps don't tend to support scaling so they look blurry (Steam client has no excuses but still has no support?!), but again not 100% M$ fault that one.
Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 13:43
Quote: "They still managed to screw up alt+tab on multi-monitor setups. Win7 does this too. I'd really like to have a separate stack per monitor, otherwise alt-tab often just switches between the two active windows you have open on both monitors, which is completely useless."

Not sure what you mean. I had dual monitors in Win7 and it was never an issue for me. Hold ALT when you tab to switch between other windows, not just the two recent.

Quote: "Cue Seppuku’s rant about the two creator updates. "

Yea I traced my network issue to the fall creator update. I uninstalled it but it didn't fix the problem, it had already reconfigured other settings. I had to re-enabled unsecure guest access to connect to my NAS.

I just like updates being installed without it telling me what the updates are. Heck, even googling the KB number returned almost nothing. But I have since then disabled updates. I've left the firewall and AV active, as it hasn't caused me any issues yet.

Quote: "And never make an upgrade from a previous version.Ever a clean install.My 2 cents."

Mine was a clean install.

I did have Win10 freeze on me once yesterday. I think I was trying to copy a file or something and it completely locked up, had to reboot. I don't think I've ever had Win7 completely freeze like that on me.
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Ortu
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 15:40
I've been using it since the free upgrades first went out a couple of years ago. Over all, I really like it and have had no significant issues... up until Creators Update. That thing is such a mess, it has consistently caused problems across numerous machines that I've had to work with.
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TheComet
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 15:40
Quote: "Not sure what you mean. I had dual monitors in Win7 and it was never an issue for me. Hold ALT when you tab to switch between other windows, not just the two recent."


That's the problem I'm trying to avoid. If I press alt+tab once, I expect to switch between the two most recent windows on that monitor, not switch between the window on my left screen and the window on my right screen. That's entirely pointless because if I have 2 monitors, then by definition, the two windows that are focused on those two monitors are "active", are they not?

On linux I'm using the awesome-wm window manager, and the way it works there is:
win+shift+q - switch to screen 1
win+shift+w - switch to screen 2
win+k - switch to next active window on that screen
win+j - switch to previous active window on that screen

Consider the following two examples: I have two screens 1 and 2. On screen 1 I have firefox, on screen 2 I have my IDE and behind that I have gimp.
1) Let's say I'm actively working on code in my IDE, but I want to get to gimp. On Windows, I'd alt+tab, then, depending on whether I used firefox last or not, I'd either focus firefox accidentally (which is on the other monitor), or by some miracle focus gimp. This right here is the problem. I don't mentally keep track of which window I used last (and I doubt you do either), so it's always a gamble which window gets focused. I also don't want to spend time figuring out which icon corresponds to which window while holding alt, but unfortunately, on Windows, I have to, and this process can take about 3 seconds. On linux, I'd just press ctrl+k and that's it. Firefox is on another screen so it gets ignored.
2) Let's say I decide to google something. On windows, I'd move my mouse over to screen 1, click to focus the window, ctrl+t to open a new tab, search for something. Then I'd move my mouse back to my IDE, click to regain focus of my IDE and continue. On linux, I'd press win+shift+q to focus firefox, ctrl+t to open a new tab, search, then win+shift+w to switch back to my IDE. Note that during this entire process I don't need to use the mouse (well, apart from maybe having to click links in the browser).

Now, I can hear some of you screaming at your monitors going "Comet, shut up! You are nitpicking! Those extra seconds don't matter"

To you I say: They absolutely matter. I encourage you to do a little experiment: Track how many times you switch windows over 1 day (be this alt+tab or just clicking on another window). With me it's in the range of 200-300 times per day. I feel like getting to the correct window on Windows takes roughly 1.75 seconds (best case is 0.5, worst case 3, assuming the average). That means I waste 5.8 minutes of my life switching between windows each day. In awesome-wm, it's at most 1 second, which means I save 60 hours per year if I use linux.

All I'm saying is: Windows could be made a lot more efficient. It's those tiny things that annoy me, and they add up.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 17:33
Quote: "That's entirely pointless because if I have 2 monitors, then by definition, the two windows that are focused on those two monitors are "active", are they not?"

Nope. Just because you can see both doesn't mean both have focus. Whichever one receives keyboard input is the one with focus, that's why it switches to the app on the other screen, it assumes you want it to have focus, not just simply be visible.
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BatVink
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 17:46
Quote: "Over all, I really like it and have had no significant issues... up until Creators Update. That thing is such a mess"


Yes, this has screwed up 2 of my machines.
VPNs, graphics drivers, most things I try to install.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 17:49
What is this creators update? Is that like the new name for a service pack or something?
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Ortu
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 20:04 Edited at: 5th Mar 2018 20:07
More or less I guess.

Certain updates like Anniversary, Creators, etc are actually considered "feature updates" or full on "upgrades" and will produce a windows.old

"Incompatible" software will often get disabled requiring a repair or reinstall (looking at you cisco) and a lot of Windows settings get set back to defaults.

Creators wiped out my start menu on one machine, on another, a user profile became completely unable to elevate permissions (run as administrator), always disables cisco vpn and now anything less than the current version of symantec and on all of them. on several, Client Access now has to be run as admin to launch, 1 had to reinstall Outlook and 1 had to be rejoined to the domain...
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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Mar 2018 22:03
That sounds like a big headache. Hopefully I don't run into any compatibility issues.
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Posted: 4th May 2018 19:25
When scheduled to run hourly, this batch file prevents automatic updates.
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Posted: 9th May 2018 07:37 Edited at: 9th May 2018 08:08
Quote: "When scheduled to run hourly, this batch file prevents automatic updates."
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Posted: 15th Jul 2018 22:55 Edited at: 15th Jul 2018 22:56
I got a free upgrade to Win10 in 2015 as my main machine was still running Win7. I recently reset the thing to factory defaults and never clicked that I would lose out on the free Win10 upgrade until it was too late. I had no major problems with the newer OS but I myself am very much in the "light-user" category when it comes to what I expect or need from a computer. I only bought MS Office for the first time the same year and that in itself was a revelation for me. At some point I went off on a tangent doing nothing but playing around with MS Access for the next few months creating super-simple password managers for my various user accounts and from that point decided my digital hobbit-hole was so neat and tidy that I may as well reset the whole caboodle. So yeh, no complaints from Billy Bob Simple Pants here but at no point did I stretch the OS much past "runs Office"...

Awesome points all round from me for giving Windows 7 users a free upgrade to 10 though. I liked that.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 04:12
I still dislike how it handles updates. I managed to disable the auto-update.... to an extent. The other day, I clicked to check for updates. Apparently, MS thinks "check for updates" also means install everything because once you do that, it's not like it was before. No longer do you get a list of available updates you can pick and choose from. It'll just start downloading and installing all of them, without your consent.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 21:59
Yeah my main gripe this time has been Microsoft's approach to updates, especially when they cripple you from doing work. Which actually happened at work, my work laptop was out for 2 hours, so I grabbed a training laptop, which took 40 minutes to update and lack the majority of the stuff I needed.

Innovation is about boosting productivity, not hindering it.

Beyond that and the known fault which gave me random crashes, I am warm to our new overlord. And the last major patch fixed the random crashes. They were incredibly frustrating, because there was no consistency to it where you could figure out what triggers it. I even reinstalled Windows and updated every single possible driver and firmware I could and it still made no improvements. It seemed to be tied into that specific update. But now it's in the past, but probably gave my hard drive a bit of wear and tear.
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Posted: 18th Jul 2018 10:04
Switched to Win10 two years ago.
Haven't had ANY issues at all since the beginning.
I'm an excessive player. No issues with any game so far. Most of them run even smoother...


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Posted: 18th Jul 2018 11:26
Quote: "I got a free upgrade to Win10 in 2015 as my main machine was still running Win7. I recently reset the thing to factory defaults and never clicked that I would lose out on the free Win10 upgrade until it was too late."

Once you have upgraded to Windows 10, you will have free upgrade on that machine for as long as you have it. Just download the Windows 10 media creation tool from the MS website. During the install it will ask you to log into your MS account which will then verify that you have previously installed Win10 on this machine and activate it. The link to the
TomToad
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Posted: 18th Jul 2018 11:33
As for my Win10 experiences, I have had minimal problems with it. First, I replaced the start menu with Start10 from StarDock software. Second, the creators update disabled my WiFi, but has since been fixed. Third, automatic updates at the most inconvenient times (the thing I hate the most). Other than that, I think Win10 is better than Win7. Much faster and smoother.

Other than Start10, you can also install Windows Blinds from the same company which will allow you to customize your windows giving a more Win7 feel. I had to uninstall it as it was incompatible with some of my older software.
Phaelax
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Posted: 18th Jul 2018 14:30
Last week, Win10 suddenly said my copy was not activated. It's been fine since last fall until now. Said it could not contact my domain provider or something, but I wasn't set up to login to a domain! When I rebooted it was then asking to repair windows and couldn't boot to the login screen. When the repair failed, I rebooted again logged in normally like nothing ever happened. I still had to fix the activation problem though and found a "tool" which did the job. I had to do this before with Win2k once. I had a legit install, official CD and everything, but still had to run a crack to make it work.
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Posted: 20th Jul 2018 22:27
Quote: "Once you have upgraded to Windows 10, you will have free upgrade on that machine for as long as you have it. Just download the Windows 10 media creation tool from the MS website. During the install it will ask you to log into your MS account which will then verify that you have previously installed Win10 on this machine and activate it."


Thank you for the tip. I'm limited to 40GB of data per month right now so I haven't tried this just yet, it's the wrong time of the month, but will definitely pencil it in as something to do when I do get the opportunity. Thanks again.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 20th Jul 2018 23:08
It still shocks me that major countries like yours still have data caps on internet.
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Posted: 21st Jul 2018 16:51
So far I'm not enjoying win10 in the slightest. It looks bad, compatibility is bad, and it seems slower than win7.
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1989
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2018 11:15 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2018 11:15
Quote: "It still shocks me that major countries like yours still have data caps on internet."


I'm tethering to various mobile devices to access the net at the moment. That means I miss out on some of the more popular time-sinks such as Netflix and HD Youtube. Even the majority of PS4 updates require some consideration before hitting the download button. Alas, it will not be forever but if a human will pay for an extra 1GB of bandwidth because they've hit their cap for that month then providers will no doubt happily take man's hard-earned coin from him and so the world rotates!
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2018 12:24
Quote: "It looks bad,"

I remember when Vista/Win7 first came out. People complained that MS were unnecessarily bloating Windows by creating fancy windows. Things like Aero were just using up resources that could be used elsewhere. Simple borders were better.
Quote: " compatibility is bad,"

There has always been compatibility problems with major version upgrades. When upgrading from 9x to XP, many of your devices would stop working. Older devices would have no chance for an update and were useless in XP. Upon its release, XP was hailed as one of the worse OSes ever created. Many independent shops around here refused to sell it. Now XP is considered by many to be Microsoft's best OS to date.
Quote: " and it seems slower than win7."

I haven't compared it to a Win7 install, but it is definitely faster that 8.1


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Posted: 22nd Jul 2018 12:43
Vista, definitely. My biggest issue with Vista was that it was bloated, when I did upgrade to 7, 7 was very good performance wise out of the box, because I remember Microsoft did things like public betas and did well to iron out bugs and performance issues on release, presumably because of complaints with Vista, but since then I’ve never had performance issues with Windows. I see why Windows 7 is the preferred OS for many people, because Microsoft got it right. Windows 8 muddied it because it tried to be a tablet/smartphone OS as well as a desktop one, but Windows 10 definitely improved upon that. In fact, the “tablet mode” feature is nice to have as it makes it much more convenient to mirror my desktop PC to my iPad.

But compatibility, yes, there’s always going to be that with major upgrades, but I guess that is one advantage to MS’s aim to keep to Windows 10 and build on that - I wonder if it’ll keep compatibility as it ages.

That said, there were things that I think offered some better compatabiity, when I did my first impressions I tried my old PC copy of Final Fantasy VIII to test an old game and it ran without glitches for me, which I haven’t had since running it on XP (I’ve often had to tweak or patch it). But for the most part there are fixes and workaround for old software or virtual machines when there isn’t (at work we have a Windows XP machine set up to Remote Desktop to). For games, it’s one reason I love GOG, they make the effort to ensure stuff is compatible, for example, the copy off Theme Hospital I got from them is configured with DOS Box to boot up without issues or tweaking.
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2018 19:24
Vista was a flop. Win8 headed in the same direction until 8.1 fix a lot of problems. Both I feel were stepping stones to 10, which actually is stable. I just hate having to google how to do simple things in windows because they changed the location or names of things. Only reason I made the jump to 10 was I didn't want to mess with drivers needed to install 7 on my nvme drive.

I'll eventually get over or get used to all the issues, like I have with every major upgrade. I just wish MS would do something about their update process. If I wanted things to update without knowing what it's really doing, I'd buy a mac.
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Posted: 26th Jul 2018 23:49
Still running 7 here! Windows 10 is definitely an improvement over 8/8.1, but I feel it still just doesn't compare to Windows 7. I used 10 for about 6 months, tried to get used to its random quirks, and ultimately went back to 7. Couldn't be happier!

I think 10 is truly ugly too. I'm just not a fan of the super flat interface and branding Microsoft has been going with lately. Windows Vista and 7. IMO, are really gorgeous operating systems.
Yes!
Jack
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Oct 2004
Location: [Germany]
Posted: 13th Aug 2018 10:08
At home I use Win7, at least until 2020.
At work we have some Win10 machines because of UEFI and stuff.
Lucky me I am not drunk right now, because I would drop some truth-bombs here and
loose my verbal correctness and probably get some notification from a mod, because I hate Windows 10.

OSX => Windows10 - and I also dislike OSX.

I take Windows 10 as a chance to migrate to Linux 'til 2020.
My Windows time Started '97 with win95 (or even earlier, if you count win 3.1 , msdos and qbasic)
I never tought that microsoft would force me to Linux as I was always lazy to learn Linux.

As soon as ReactOS is stable enough, it will replace my Windows VM:
https://www.reactos.org/

[/url]
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 13th Aug 2018 12:30
I think ReactOS has been in development for about 20 years, I did see it before and thought “ooh”, but I get the feeling it may take quite a while before we have a stable enough of a release to be a viable replacement for Windows.
Jack
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Oct 2004
Location: [Germany]
Posted: 13th Aug 2018 14:17
Right, but they got actually a good x32 and a little x64 support now
One time a year, I look at the new features and try to guess the roadmap. Got quite promising from 2016 and above.

[/url]
Phaelax
DBPro Master
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 13th Aug 2018 18:35
I remember checking out ReactOS like 15 years ago. I forgot all about it.
Tiled TMX Importer V.2
XML Parser V.2
Base64 Encoder/Decoder
Purple Token - Free online hi-score database
Legend of Zelda

"I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended." - Linus Torvalds

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