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AppGameKit Chat / [STICKY] AgkSharp for Windows - General Questions And Feedback

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MadBit
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Posted: 19th May 2018 04:20 Edited at: 26th May 2018 23:02
I started this thread to answer general questions about "AgkSharp for Windows" and to get feedback.

Here is a small overview of what you can expect.

You can write applications and games in C# or Visual Basic.
You get 4 Visual Studio templates: 2 for C# and 2 for Visual Basic. Each for game development and a template with WinForms for application development.
Templates work with Visual Studio 2013, 2015 and 2017.
Tested on Windows 7 / 8.1 / 10.
4 examples. Converted 1 to 1 from the AGK-Tier1 example folder.
1 WinForms example. That is almost completely documented (It is a 2DParticleEditor). My first tutorial will be based on this example.

The downloads, a HowTo to install the templates and more information can be found on my project page.

AgkSharp for Windows - Project Page


I hope you have a lot of fun with "AgkSharp for Windows".

Share your knowledge. It\'s a way to achieve immortality. (Tenzin Gyatso)
baxslash
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Posted: 19th May 2018 08:55
This is great MadBit, I am particularly excited about having a Winforms example. Maybe I should get started on a new batch of tools!!
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Steve Ancell
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Posted: 19th May 2018 17:01 Edited at: 19th May 2018 17:01
[quote=] and a template with WinForms for application development

This is so gonna bang, can't wait to get my itchy paws on this.
MadBit
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Posted: 20th May 2018 05:59
Thak you for your words. I am looking forward to new and great projects.
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Carharttguy
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Posted: 20th May 2018 06:45


In all seriousness: How much do you think is 'a fair donation'? I have no idea how much work this was. I want to support the work and stimulate you to also wrap next versions.

Thanks!
BatVink
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Posted: 20th May 2018 08:08
This is fantastic, looking forward to playing with it.
It's good to see it is being endorsed/supported by TGC.

I have one question, I hope you can put my mind at rest. In the past there have been alternative flavours of DBPro and AppGameKit - PureBasic, Pascal etc. They have very quickly lagged behind the updates and eventually disappeared.
Is the intention for this to be "Tier 3" and therefore maintained alongside the other Tiers?
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TutCity is being rebuilt
Rick Nasher
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Posted: 20th May 2018 10:05
Question: will this allow compiling cross platform or Windows only?
Zigi
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Posted: 20th May 2018 10:59
Quote: "They have very quickly lagged behind the updates and eventually disappeared.
Is the intention for this to be "Tier 3" and therefore maintained alongside the other Tiers?"

I had the same concerns with the Python version.
In my opinion, TGC doesn't want anyone to move from Tier 1 or 2 to C# or Python or any other community maintained version. What they are more interested to see is that how many new users coming to AppGameKit from the C# and Python community as a direct result of this community maintained versions. In case there are many, TGC might consider make it officially supported to keep the new users around, I guess this is what this 1 year "trial" period is all about.

Personally, I would be interested to use C# or any other OOP language as a scripting language that we can use to export to any platform with a click of a button similar to Tier 1. In case I need to setup a development environment to target each platform similar to C++, I can't see the benefit and I'm not really interested. But even if someone take the time to explain the benefits of C# over C++, as long it is a limited "trial" I don't think I would spend any time with it.

So in my opinion, it should be advertised on C# game dev forums in the first place to be a success.
MadBit
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Posted: 20th May 2018 11:43 Edited at: 20th May 2018 11:44
BatVink wrote: "I have one question, I hope you can put my mind at rest. In the past there have been alternative flavours of DBPro and AppGameKit - PureBasic, Pascal etc. They have very quickly lagged behind the updates and eventually disappeared.
Is the intention for this to be "Tier 3" and therefore maintained alongside the other Tiers?"

For the first one I am bound to version 2017.12.12. So for one year there will be no functional update. Bugfixes will be available. But no new commands.

Zigi wrote: "In my opinion, TGC doesn't want anyone to move from Tier 1 or 2 to C# or Python or any other community maintained version. What they are more interested to see is that how many new users coming to AppGameKit from the C# and Python community as a direct result of this community maintained versions. In case there are many, TGC might consider make it officially supported to keep the new users around, I guess this is what this 1 year "trial" period is all about.
"

that's right. You have to understand that TGC is a company and needs on AppGameKit to sell. They also said that if this project (AgkSharp) is accepted by you, the community. Then they will consider continuing to support it. So create your projects and present them. Shows TGC that it makes sense to support AgkSharp. If it doesn't help - you can still use this library after 12 months. There are just no more updates and I probably have to take the download off my site.

Zigi wrote: "So in my opinion, it should be advertised on C# game dev forums in the first place to be a success."

In the current status of AGKSharp this would be a bad idea. Because in such a forum AgkSharp would have to compete with MonoGame. I have never used MonoGame but I think AgkSharp would be hopelessly inferior. In terms of the range of supported systems.

Rick Nasher wrote: "Question: will this allow compiling cross platform or Windows only?"

For now Windows only.
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Carharttguy
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Posted: 20th May 2018 12:11 Edited at: 20th May 2018 12:15
MadBit: What is the reason your are bound to version 2017.12.12?

And how is are these DLL's licensed? It seems everyone can download the templates and go on with it? How did it check that I bought AppGameKit via Steam?
MadBit
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Posted: 20th May 2018 15:20
I have made a written agreement with TGC that I may offer these DLLs for download. But only for 12 months and with version 2018.12.12.

It also does not check if you own AppGameKit.

Therefore the note on my website to buy AppGameKit if you like AgkSharp.
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gerdich
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Posted: 20th May 2018 17:22
The DLL is the most interesting part for me. Perhaps it can be accessed by Delphi.

One thing I don't like is the "AGK Core". I would like to give AppGameKit a handle on any windows graphic context. So I could integrate it in a program. I don't want AppGameKit to create the Graphical Context, but I would prefere to give AppGameKit a handle to a graphical context I already have created.
Carharttguy
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Posted: 20th May 2018 18:17
@gerdich:

Have you checked the Winforms template?
This is exactly what the Agk.InitGL() function does. Just pass the handle of a containercontrol like a panel, and the Agk context is completely rendered within that panel.
This is awesome, previously I did this by starting AppGameKit as a childprocess, and then hijacking the content with the SetParent method. But that's way hackier (and that's how Unity does it)

So in a sense, AppGameKit does it better than Unity to embed it into WinForms.

Only downside: I don't think this would work in GTK or in OSX. I'm not aware if the 'handle' system even exists there.

@MadBit: I tried MonoGame, and would choose AppGameKit every time. But MonoGame is indeed more cross platform.
MadBit
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Posted: 20th May 2018 18:38
Carharttguy's right. In the case of GTK and MacOS this is unfortunately different. AppGameKit is initialized via GLFW in this case and GLFW does not offer the possibility to pass a window handle. Here you can only try via SetParent.

Carharttguy wrote: "I tried MonoGame, and would choose AppGameKit every time. But MonoGame is indeed more cross platform."


I assume AppGameKit is easier to use and to understand.
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c0d3r9
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Posted: 20th May 2018 19:02
Great stuff madbit.
What are the future plans?
Provide every time the dll´s offers the dll´s with every app/game to all.
In the other way this could be a way to create bindings for other languages i.e. purebasic, glbasic and so on.
TGC should send every person wich buyed agk a key and into the dll this key could be checked.
So the dll can only used for coding with this key.Xors3d does it this way in past.
SetKey("aufhadjvbsfvbwvr")
or something.Otherwise the dll only runs with a time limit.
But thats only my two cents.
MadBit
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Posted: 21st May 2018 05:57
I try to bring AgkSharp closer to the community. And I will expand AgkSharp as I am allowed to do within the limits of the agreement I made with TGC.

Quote: "Provide every time the dll´s offers the dll´s with every app/game to all."

Yes, the DLLs are then part of the program. All standalone programs developed with this version of AgkSharp can be distributed at will. Whether free or for sale.

Btw, Interesting idea with the key.
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baxslash
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Posted: 21st May 2018 10:50
Hi MadBit,
I am not getting any input feedback from the pointer in the winforms template. If I add the following into the Sync method I get nothing at all when I move the mouse or click on the screen panel.

Any advice?
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MadBit
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Posted: 21st May 2018 11:15
I think you're using the WinForms template. There the inputs are not looped through to AGK. Because I assume that an application will work more with events.

You can use the AppGameKit window like a normal WinForms object. Or you can copy the code from the standard template into your application to loop through.

I think i make another template with WinForms and AppGameKit inputs.
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baxslash
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Posted: 21st May 2018 11:49
I am just looking at being able to select items from the AppGameKit screen. For Level editors etc. this is pretty critical.
If you are just using it as a display layer it's not a problem but if you want any kind of user interaction with the screen it is another matter.
I will take a look at the other template and see if I can make it work.
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gerdich
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Posted: 21st May 2018 12:40
@MadBit and @Carharttguy

I've just installed the WinformTemplate. It's exactly what I was searching for! Thank you!
Carharttguy
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Posted: 21st May 2018 13:53
Quote: "I am just looking at being able to select items from the AppGameKit screen. For Level editors etc. this is pretty critical.
If you are just using it as a display layer it's not a problem but if you want any kind of user interaction with the screen it is another matter.
I will take a look at the other template and see if I can make it work."


Well, this would be perfectly possible. You have the X & Y from the panel in WinForms, raycast with those X & Y, then do exactly the same as you would do in pure AGK: 'selecting your object'.
And instead of using AGK's mousestate, you can use the Panel_mousedown _mouseclick etc from C#

This way you can use AppGameKit as presentation, while doing all other code in C#.
I'm not there yet, but I intend to do it this way and it should work. Your code could also be faster, as you don't have to check for a mousestate every frame, events are just there when you need them.

Quote: "So the dll can only used for coding with this key.Xors3d does it this way in past.
SetKey("aufhadjvbsfvbwvr") "


@MadBit: I don't know anything about making wrappers, did you need the sourcecode of AppGameKit to do this? Or can you create wrappers for newer versions easily, but not distribute them?

This is indeed how most paid DLL's do it. I would pay extra for agkSharp alone.
baxslash
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Posted: 21st May 2018 15:09
I have something working fairly well now. It looks like a great start actually. I have started a minor project for testing but based on what I have so far it is looking very usable. I will probably keep tweaking to get it working how I like but this is pretty easy to get into.
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gerdich
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Posted: 21st May 2018 19:26
I've bought everything from GameGuru and everything from AppGameKit. They do a wonderful work.
fubarpk
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Posted: 21st May 2018 20:18
Which c# compiler would you recommend?
I only have an old version of Visual Studio from University days, which if you make the mistake of installing
the debugger, It catches all of windows exceptions before most programs get a chance to handle them.
Which is a pain when you have one machine for both development and games machine, on a low budget
so free or cheap is best
fubar
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Posted: 21st May 2018 20:24
Visual Studio 2017 Community Edition is awesome - got all the tools required - compilations are also included- it also features intelligent code corrections, so can correct any errors "on the go!!""



Happy Days!!!
BatVink
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Posted: 21st May 2018 20:35
Yes, Community Edition is commercial grade. The bits you don't get in Community, you don't need for coding with AGK.

I have Pro with Resharper which is fantastic for streamlining code, but again, overkill for AGK. Resharper essentially refactors your code to make it look like the way you should have coded it in the first place.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
puzzler2018
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Posted: 21st May 2018 20:38 Edited at: 21st May 2018 20:47
Yes Resharper has some very good tools - shall say no more lol,
fubarpk
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Posted: 21st May 2018 22:48
Thanks
Microsofts Download Link appears down at the moment so i will try again later
Quote: "@ Resharper"

Sounds like it would change my code so much it would be unrecogniseable to me after lol


Is there a good Set Up Tutoria that is valid for the 2017 Community edition someone can direct me too?.
I remember issues with the 2005 Community Edition with GDK in the past.
Thanks in advance

fubar
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Posted: 21st May 2018 22:55 Edited at: 21st May 2018 22:56
resharper is a self debugging tool of DLLs we create (not anyone elses) -its up to you how you use it.- disclaimers everywhere when download it- use it wisely x
fubarpk
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Posted: 21st May 2018 22:56
I remember many moons ago not saying how many lol
but there was programs around that would convert a working exe into compilable c code.

I remember trying to decipher what it did lol that was a nightmare. but the importance i learned from that
experiance was the value of naming variable a name that will be recogniseable later.

Im sure resharper is nothing like that as it sounds like it reorganises what you have already have, but wanted
to share my experience with code creators

fubar
puzzler2018
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Posted: 21st May 2018 22:58
it disassembles dll code back to written readable c family language

please use it wisely
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Posted: 21st May 2018 23:07
I am not responsible for its functionality lol - i prefer to forget i said anything lol
Ortu
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I'm guessing this is x86, any chance we can get an x64 version?
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 22nd May 2018 01:33
I still need to try this out. I've tried to download the file 3 times now on different nights and every time it gets about 95% says "download failed". With this in mind and the discussion above regarding TGC need to protect their own work I think it would make a lot more sense for TGC to just include this as a DLC that we can download the same way as the other things. This way ONLY owners of AppGameKit can even get it (a good thing IMO) and all of us owners can EASILY get it through the normal channels.
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)
c0d3r9
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Posted: 22nd May 2018 01:45
And if TGC integrate any kind of protection(i.e. key) it could be include to the normal offered package.(of course a few cents for madbit for every sale )
I take a look deeper inside the dll and it could be easy to use it with several languages but coding should only be possible for owner who paid for it.
MadBit
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Posted: 22nd May 2018 07:40
Carharttguy wrote: "I don't know anything about making wrappers, did you need the sourcecode of AppGameKit to do this? Or can you create wrappers for newer versions easily, but not distribute them?"

No, I don't need the original source code from TGC. I only use the AppGameKit C/C++ library that comes with the installation.
There is something in the license that you are not allowed to combine all functions into another library and pass on elsewhere. This is exactly what this DLL does.
fubarpk wrote: "Which c# compiler would you recommend?"


Ortu wrote: "I'm guessing this is x86, any chance we can get an x64 version?"

Yeah, there's a chance. I will compile AgkSharp with the 64 bit libraries when I have the opportunity.

GarBenjamin wrote: "I've tried to download the file 3 times now on different nights and every time it gets about 95% says "download failed". "

If you still have problems downloading AgkSharp, then send me a PM with your e-mail address. Then I can send AgkSharp to you directly.

To everyone else - thank you for your interest.
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Zigi
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Posted: 22nd May 2018 08:46
I have just realised with C# probably I could use this:
https://playerio.com/
I've been using the free plan with JavaScript some time ago and it was pretty simple to make online multiplayer without need to run my own server. I was missing the ability to use this with AppGameKit a lot.
I'm definitely going to check this out with AGKSharp when I have the time
It could make me consider to use AGKSharp in the future.
BatVink
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Posted: 22nd May 2018 09:20
To clarify, my mention of Resharper was in regard to better coding. It had not to do with decompiling.
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baxslash
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I am loving having C# for a fairly recent version of AppGameKit but this issue is still happening even in the C# version of AppGameKit which makes it totally unusable for me for creating Windows games or tools.
I am OUT of AppGameKit world again until this bug is fixed...
Not an issue with this wrapper.
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Carharttguy
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Posted: 22nd May 2018 16:01
I think I already know the answer is 'no'. But is there a way to get 2 AppGameKit instances in a WinForms app? (On 2 different forms, if that would matter)
I cannot seem to instantiate another Agk instance. Is there a way to make the Agk class not 'static', instantiatable, so I can instantiate more than one?

Thanks
MadBit
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Carharttguy wrote: "I think I already know the answer is 'no'. But is there a way to get 2 AppGameKit instances in a WinForms app? (On 2 different forms, if that would matter)
I cannot seem to instantiate another Agk instance. Is there a way to make the Agk class not 'static', instantiatable, so I can instantiate more than one?"

Your assumption is correct. Agk holds only one instance of a GL context. I'm not able to influence that either.
However, you could create a second one manually. But I don't think it'll help if you can't use the AppGameKit commands.

Zigi wrote: "I have just realised with C# probably I could use this:
https://playerio.com/
I've been using the free plan with JavaScript some time ago and it was pretty simple to make online multiplayer without need to run my own server. I was missing the ability to use this with AppGameKit a lot.
I'm definitely going to check this out with AGKSharp when I have the time
It could make me consider to use AGKSharp in the future."

One of the great strengths of C# is that there are many useful libraries available that you can use.

@baxslash
That's a pity. But I understand you.

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baxslash
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Quote: "@baxslash
That's a pity. But I understand you."

I have a workaround by changing the default graphics setting so I am back on using this again now! I had already come up with a temporary solution, I don't like giving up too easy!

I am enjoying using these templates, great work!
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Riusz
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Posted: 23rd May 2018 14:31
For your information : There is a http 404 error on the projet page today.
MadBit
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Posted: 23rd May 2018 15:24
Thank you. Bplaced had made a big update from her side. Since then my site can no longer be reached under.com but under.net.

I will correct the links immediately.
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MadBit
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I just realized that my site hasn't been migrated yet. I'll let you know when it works again.
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Rick Nasher
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Posted: 24th May 2018 22:07 Edited at: 24th May 2018 22:10
Guessing this means the photon multiplayer network engine could easily be adopted by AppGameKit users?
It's pretty popular among Unity(bweek) users I believe.
Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 25th May 2018 07:17 Edited at: 25th May 2018 07:19
@MadBit-looks good, I went to your website, using link but get "error 404"
Professional Programmer, languages: SAS, C++, SQL, PL-SQL, DBPro, Purebasic, JavaScript, others

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MadBit
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Posted: 25th May 2018 08:58 Edited at: 25th May 2018 08:59
Yeah, I'm sorry. The provider moves his server. The pages are still working somehow. You now only have '.net' at the end and no longer '.com'. I don't have access to my site yet to edit the links. So I give two direct links that should allow you to download the templates and examples.

AgkSharp - Info

Examples

Templates

I hope it works.

@Rick Nasher
If the Photon Network library has no dependencies to Unity or other unreachable libraries. Then it will work
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MadBit
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Posted: 26th May 2018 23:02
The project page is online again. And also available under old address.

Have fun with it and best regards.
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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 27th May 2018 06:40
Download worked. Template worked. Great stuff.
TI/994a (BASIC) -> C64 (BASIC/PASCAL/ASM/Others) -> Amiga (AMOS/BLITZ/ASM/C/Gamesmith) -> DOS (C/C++/Allegro) -> Windows (C++/C#/Monkey X/GL Basic/Unity/Others)

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