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AppGameKit Chat / Apple deprecates OpenGL in MacOS 10.14 to push their own Metal framework

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xCept
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Posted: 5th Jun 2018 04:19
This popped up in the Developer Notes today:

Quote: "Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

Apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will continue to run in macOS 10.14, but these legacy technologies are deprecated in macOS 10.14. Games and graphics-intensive apps that use OpenGL should now adopt Metal. Similarly, apps that use OpenCL for computational tasks should now adopt Metal and Metal Performance Shaders.

Metal is designed from the ground up to provide the best access to the modern GPUs on iOS, macOS, and tvOS devices. Metal avoids the overhead inherent in legacy technologies and exposes the latest graphics processing functionality. Unified support for graphics and compute in Metal lets your apps efficiently utilize the latest rendering techniques. For information about developing apps and games using Metal, see the developer documentation for Metal, Metal Performance Shaders, and MetalKit. For information about migrating OpenGL code to Metal, see Mixing Metal and OpenGL Rendering in a View."


I find this concerning given the near universal use of OpenGL-based frameworks to ease porting of apps across platforms (including AGK). Apple is compelling developers to instead migrate to their own closed system framework Metal that only runs on MacOS, iOS and tvOS. While some of the largest game development tools have began implementing experimental Metal support, many still depend on OpenGL.

Although they will still support OpenGL applications in 10.14, there is no telling when they may decide to disable it outright similar to Flash, Java and 32-bit builds.
Xaby
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Posted: 5th Jun 2018 07:28
@xCept,

My MacBook pro is not compatible with OSX 10.14, I guess, but it's fast enough for APK.

I see it in two ways

first: if Apple will shut down OpenGL in OSX 10.15, maybe in one year of now,

- it would be possible, that nobody cares, because 3D renders have implemented Metal than
- or Android and Windows are possible targets
- or also Android builds need to support OpenGL ES 3.x and or Vulkan and Windows apps need to support DX 11 or Vulkan.

If we are using APK, they have about a year time to implement it.

Or ... Apple doesn't shut up OpenGL in 10.15, because it's industry standard, the graphic cards will support it, but the Apple SDKs don't support it anymore. So older apps will work fine. Imagine, you bought an App from the iTunes Store for Mac OSX this year with OpenGL support and you want to download it next year on your new OS ...

But there is no update for the app. And it was maybe an App for about 100,- $ or so. I don't think, that Apple really can cut out OpenGL. I don't know, if you could upload new Apps to the store front. But building and running the Apps in APK should work like before.
Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Jun 2018 12:21
I think that's a horrible idea, clearly Apple hasn't looked at history. Proprietary graphics platforms often don't do well in the long run, remember Glide? DX only became such a standard because MS had so much money, but at one time it was considered a joke.

This, on top of other rumors I've heard about Apple dropping Intel in favor of their own CPU, sounds like Apple is really trying to close their system and do everything themselves. I guess good for them, but bad for everyone else. And what's bad for everyone else will eventually be bad for Apple.

If it were up to me, OGL would rule everything.
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janbo
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Posted: 5th Jun 2018 23:06 Edited at: 5th Jun 2018 23:06
Yeah, thats it, bad for others good for them, sadly they seem pretty determined about that metal thing, and also they can get away with overpriced phones, computer, Dev-accounts and pretty much everything they do.
People buy it and thats why developers target this system and probably swallow the pill and make apps that work with metal.
But deprecated doesn't mean that it wont work right ?... OpenGL ES 2.0 is also deprecated in a way, but works on pretty much every platform
Dybing
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Posted: 6th Jun 2018 00:10 Edited at: 6th Jun 2018 00:11
Got to realize, Apple isn't in the computer business, they're in the fashion accessory business.

Businesses with a bright future innovate, businesses that are destined for the scrapyard build monuments. Apple haven't done any innovating since the original iPhone, but they do have a fancy new HQ. Where programmers refused to work due to the open-plan office-space where it is impossible to concentrate.
Xaby
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Posted: 7th Jun 2018 10:41
Godot has nearly the same problem and the solution for them is:

a little bit funny and upset at the same time, I guess

https://godotengine.org/article/abandoning-gles3-vulkan-and-gles2
Godot wrote: "
MOLTENVK GOES OPEN SOURCE
However, today, in a completely unexpected turn of events, it seems Valve has found an arrangement with the developers of MoltenVK (the commercial and proprietary Vulkan over Metal wrapper), ported Dota 2 to it, and got it open sourced.

It seems to be a mostly complete Vulkan implementation that runs on macOS and iOS. This pretty much lifts the only barrier we had for moving Godot to it."


Apples forces all the time. Maybe they don't support it in there SDKs anymore, but can't imagine, that older OpenGL games don't work anymore. The next thing is, my MacBook Pro from 2012 is great, don't need a new one, but the new OSX is not supported. So the problem will not affect me.
I guess, it is a long run thing. We will see it in the next two to five years. And maybe Apple will combine Intel-CPU-Macs with ARM-iPads and iOS and OSX will be one thing some time.

But who cares? If a gamer wants to play games, he/she will have a gaming device. AppGameKit runs on a Raspberry Pi and on Android. So developers could develope and gamers could play. And e.g. the Raspberry Pi or the OUYA are cheap. And in the next two to five years the hardware will get even cheaper.

Does anybody creates games, which are only run on 1.600,- $ iPhone X3 or what? For most games an OUYA works or a PC like the ne Atari VCS for about 200,- to 300,- $ or on the XBox One S for less.

OUYA in the UK ~ 19.99 £
https://www.game.co.uk/en/ouya-console-215307

Atari VCS
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/atari-vcs-game-stream-connect-like-never-before-computers-pc#/

And when ARM processors are printed, they are cheap as some cents and so the hardware would be. Complete PC printed maybe for the price of a magazine or newspaper. So cardridge and PC are the same in the future.

Who cares about, if it runs on not open hardware anymore

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