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AppGameKit Studio Chat / "AppGameKit Studio" - Some Questions

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janbo
11
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Location: Germany
Posted: 6th Mar 2019 19:36 Edited at: 6th Mar 2019 20:03
I think its very possible to create such graphics(500FPS) with AppGameKit and up to date render pipeline
And if it's not shipped with AGKS I'll do my best to make it real as soon as I see some sort of occlusion culling to make real use of highpoly models, with 5 to 7 large textures each, in your entire level, to justify the PBR overhead.
Well you could make really nice looking chess games
But it does look beautiful and it's easier to talk about than to create a complete Custom Programming Language, IDE and PBR Render system which does have this level of ease of use as we know it from TGC, so kudos to them and especially to Paul who is then let alone to support all this for years to come I guess.
You also need to note that with modern renderer there also not only comes a performance boost by better/deeper hardware support but also more kinds of techniques we could use(hopefully).
Cubemapping for example again (which is needed for IBL in PBR), wasn't a thing in AGKClassic but in Vulkan (if done right) we not only get cubemapping ofc. but also could utilize the geometry shader to render Cubemaps in one pass instead of 6 which again boosts your performance for this task.
Zigi
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Posted: 7th Mar 2019 18:26 Edited at: 7th Mar 2019 18:34
Quote: "I don't actually belive that's a realtime render:"

Maybe I missed something but why exactly we question the words of someone from the dev team?
The trailer show lot of details and I was also wondering if it is pre-rendered scene but told it is real time render so why is there a question mark?
It is totally possible to render a scene like that in real time and Lee did invest in to a decent config for developing, debugging GameGuru but I also not sure why do we question if TGC got the hardware to render a scene like that.

Quote: "Are those shaders going to be supplied with AGKS......cause if their not, that's dodgy advertising at best"

Unity and Unreal constantly advertising their engine with shaders and scenes, gameplay footage that is not available to everyone (for free).
There is nothing wrong with trying to showcase the capabilities of an engine in a trailer.
Santman
9
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Location: Inverness
Posted: 8th Mar 2019 10:06 Edited at: 8th Mar 2019 10:08
Zigi, possibly because it's too good for the fps, possibly because TGC haven't even gotten close to that with game guru, and possibly because I'm still tainted by the while driving theory test apps fiasco.

Either which way I really do hope I'm wrong......but intimately it won't matter. Even if those shaders come with it, I for one don't have the time, support or financial resources to make the kind of project that would benefit from them, but perhaps they are trying to expand their audience.

For me here the prize is a better development studio (realtime debugging is a dream), and hopefully a more modern engine.....cause let's be honest, no unreal built game looks anywhere near as good as their lovely tech demos do.

Oh, and if TGC advertise studio of being capable of that out the box, and it's not cause the shaders aren't there, that could be dodgy. Its all in the phrasing.
Polaraul
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Posted: 8th Mar 2019 13:26 Edited at: 8th Mar 2019 13:45
The PBR demo was what initially sparked my interest in AppGameKit Studio, however, as far as I can tell the source code to this is not included with AppGameKit Studio. This seems an oversight, as not only would users be able to judge the potential of AppGameKit Studio, but also be able to learn from the code for their own projects. Here is what GaborD (the author of the video I believe) said about this https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/223869#msg2640021
Santman
9
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Location: Inverness
Posted: 8th Mar 2019 15:06
Hmmmm.......a very subjective post, if e we there was one. Does seem to suggest it's not coming with studio though......

Rik himself pledged that they will showcase this later, so let's see.
GarBenjamin
AGK Developer
3
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Joined: 30th Nov 2016
Location: USA
Posted: 8th Mar 2019 16:56 Edited at: 8th Mar 2019 16:56
Based on GaborD's post it makes sense to me and I don't see anything wrong with the video etc. GaborD says they created that themselves using custom shaders and of course their technical know how. And in this way means this is possible technically for anyone to do. If I understood the post correctly.

Of course a person would need to put in the time to learn and increase their skills to be able to do the things GaborD mentioned such as shaders and the tool chain etc.

I do agree it would be cool though if the new AGKS had support for much of the tech stuff simply built-in as Unity and others do. But these things take time. So I don't think I would expect it in the June release unless Rick explicitly says it will contain easy full support for PBR.

Also I do agree this would be very smart for them to add because so many devs are attracted by these shiny things more than anything else. So simply having the support and seeing demos and games start coming out looking fancy and shiny would do more to bring in new devs than probably any other thing. Honestly I think many / more game devs are more interested in shiny graphics than gamers themselves are even. Lol
Zigi
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Posted: 9th Mar 2019 11:25 Edited at: 9th Mar 2019 11:45
Including the shaders could be useful only for certain projects and people who do know the shader code.
If anything what 'm really would like to see is a visual shader editor something similar to what Dark Shader was or what we had in FPSC X10 so we could tweak certain shaders with sliders.
Could have some generic type of shaders included like glass, metal, plastic, ice, disolve..etc and tweak their properties in a GUI like reflection, speed, size, refraction, textures..etc

I would not even mind if it would be a DLC for AGKS but would be nice to be something integrated that we can use with the asset manager. Select a shader from the asset manager, tweak it in the properties panel and see the result immediately in the preview then save it or "save as" a new shader.

Maybe TGC could implement something in the IDE to allow people to expose properties from the shader code to the IDE that we can tweak without touching the code.
So we could continue to buy shaders made by @janbo and others then tweak it in AGKS in case the propertis have been exposed for us.

Then we would definitely see more and more shiny games coming from AGKS developers that would indeed attract more eyes for sure.
Baldielocks
3
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Joined: 28th Mar 2017
Location: Grimsby, England
Posted: 11th Mar 2019 18:56
Hi guys this may sound a stupid question but I`ll ask anyway. Bought APK a year or so ago, played with it then parked it on the shelf time constraints. Got time now. can I still use the Tier1 language wtith studio or will there be a new / revised version ?
cheers.
Santman
9
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Location: Inverness
Posted: 11th Mar 2019 19:28
You can still use it fine, studio gives a new and bettwr ide, and later on will untroduce Vulkin support. Agk classic will still work, but will now inly be maintained as i understand it, no new featuures will be added.
lilpissywilly
AGK Developer
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Posted: 13th Mar 2019 18:44
I really hope a version of the Visual Editor ends up in AGKS. I might buy it anyway, but making editors for big game projects is such a bore
My hovercraft is full of eels
YarSnez
17
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Posted: 19th Mar 2019 15:17
I have to say I bought AppGameKit but have only tinkered with it. However, am impressed with what I have seen. One thing which is interesting to me is the ability to choose between Tier 1 and Tier 2, Tier 1 being the scripting language and Tier 2, C++. Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the performance of the scripting language. In fact, its probably fine for most things, and with the new Vulkan engine coming for AppGameKit Studio, it will have even better graphics performance. Also, I like the look of AppGameKit Studio and the benefits this all in one development environment can bring. However, I'm wondering if there is a plan to support C++ in AppGameKit Studio. Maybe there is not enough call for it, but there might be times when the performance from an optimising native compiler would be useful. Also, maybe some people would still like to use the much harder syntax of C++ in order to benefit from OO programming. I don't know, but I can understand sticking with the much easier scripting language!
I have very simple tastes, I am always satisfied with the very best.

Oscar Wilde.
Ortu
DBPro Master
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Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 19th Mar 2019 17:46
They have stated that they will continue to provide tier 2 c++ libraries for studio, the same as with classic
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
YarSnez
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Posted: 20th Mar 2019 17:18
@Ortu, thanks for the info. Very good to know.
I have very simple tastes, I am always satisfied with the very best.

Oscar Wilde.
Rick Nasher
3
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Joined: 25th Jul 2017
Location: Amsterdam
Posted: 23rd Mar 2019 16:03
GaborD is using his own shaders afaik in AGK2.
If AGKS(+Vulkan installed) is really much faster than we're going to see a whole new world. But not on my machine for doesn't support Vulkan.

Also I think would be fair if TGC actually would ship the final product *with* GaborD's code as an example for they used it to promote and show what can be done.
People will need to know how.
So include it and people who can run it will be stunned. People who can't like me, due to low syst specs won't, but that doesn't matter.
bjadams
AGK Backer
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Joined: 29th Mar 2008
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Posted: 28th Mar 2019 10:48
Does the new STUDIO still create temp files in USER dir on WINDOWS for virtual joystick images, default font etc....
This always annoyed me about AppGameKit as if I am not using virtual joystick or other things this becomes an overhead.
bjadams
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Posted: 28th Mar 2019 10:51
@YarSnez I'm in your same boat. Have used AppGameKit 1 and 2 classic only on a few occasions, but it's good to have in your arsenal. I am buying the Studio on the premise that they confirmed that it will come with C++ libs and project files for Visual Studio & Xcode & Android

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