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Geek Culture / RIAA & Kazaa/Shareaza

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HowdyDewdy
20
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Joined: 6th Dec 2003
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:16
I used to use kazaa, then quit because it messed up our computer, and used shareaza. I stopped using shareaza recently, but after RIAA tarted lawsuits. I deleted the programs and music/files i downloaded....shouldnt this hide that i ever downloaded music. The only evidence i see if people do this is the ISP revealing it, and it seems theyre agaisnt the RIAA, as the appeals court ruling showed?

People Should Have To Take An I.Q. Test Before Breeding
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Location: At home
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:20 Edited at: 27th Dec 2003 00:21
Assuming your in the USA (anywhere else and the RIAA cant touch you) - and assuming they can get the info from your ISP, in order to get away with this 'crime', you will need to make sure that all the files have been securely deleted and not just deleted from the recycle bin : dont forget that data can be reconstructed from up to around 6/7 overwrites.


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HowdyDewdy
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:21
I deleted it by recycle bin. How do you reget them and "securley" delete them?
(yeah, im from the USA-now we have mad cow2)

People Should Have To Take An I.Q. Test Before Breeding
Ian T
22
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:21
Yes you should shred with at least five passess .

Btw, using Kazza is very foolish, but Kazza Lite is 100% safe.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

FOCAIDASD, geri.
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:25
Yes, Kazaa Lite is the prefered software, although that is rumoured to have spy software as well...

Quote: "How do you reget them and "securley" delete them?"

Take out your harddrive and smash it with a hammer...


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HowdyDewdy
20
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:27
Lol, but seriosuly.

Also....call tech support form microsoft, and do the reboot thing. Erases all files and returns it to what it was like when u bought it.
(still, how do you reget those files and securley delete them)

People Should Have To Take An I.Q. Test Before Breeding
Preston C
21
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Joined: 16th May 2003
Location: Penn State University Park
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:28
Quote: "Quote: "How do you reget them and "securley" delete them?"
Take out your harddrive and smash it with a hammer"


Take a magnet to it first, then smash it.

Cheers,
Preston


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
HowdyDewdy
20
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:32
why wont anybody say how to? Im guessing..there isnt a way?

People Should Have To Take An I.Q. Test Before Breeding
Preston C
21
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Location: Penn State University Park
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:33
No, there is, its just too complicated to explain properly without a bit of typing (and I'm sure we're all either too busy, too drunk, too sleep, or all of the above to reveal the secret).

Eitherway, I dont know it either

Cheers,
Preston


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
Ian T
22
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Location: Around
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:37
Get Spybot: Search and Destroy and use its Secure Shredder tool .

'although that is rumoured to have spy software as well...'

Unfounded ones; every piece of spyware killer software on the earth marks it as clean .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

FOCAIDASD, geri.
Ian T
22
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Location: Around
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:40
F__k Off Catch An Incurable Disease and Slowly Die. You need to get out more.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

FOCAIDASD, geri.
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Location: At home
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:42
Quote: "Unfounded ones; every piece of spyware killer software on the earth marks it as clean"

Good to hear...


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PiratSS
22
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:45 Edited at: 27th Dec 2003 00:47
Lol, this is becoming a flame war post... once again Mouse vs G3ri,

screw this, I won't stand up for u no more, you are the one who is starting this G3ri, and I thought u were... on the light side of the moon.

P.S: Incurable desiase is sickness which you can not get rid of.. like cancer

Dual AMD Athlon MP 2x1GHZ | IBM 15000Rpm SCSI 73.4 Gb X 2 | e-GeForce Ti4400 | Audigy 2 + 7.1 Surround sound | 17' Monitor | Ugly mouse
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Location: At home
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 00:49
Just ignore Geri...


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John H
Retired Moderator
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 01:08
Or delete his posts


Dont forget to Join the Forums!
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Location: At home
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 01:14
Oh yes, I'm getting quite good at that


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lagmaster
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 01:19
first of all if you use kazaa well you deserve to be caught

nuff said.

lagmasteruk - http://www.lagmaster.net is alive! http://www.dbforums.co.uk/ - another db forum!

Dark Snippet Pro V9 is out!!
the_winch
21
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 01:21
I don't see how they can get you for just downloading files, if they took you to court you could just go out and buy the cds with cash and say you where just downloading a bakup.

If you allowed others to download the files off your computer and they can prove it then you may well be in trouble.

I would guess most of the riaa stuff is scaremongering, getting people to think they are going to end up in court if they download music is proberly more effective and cheaper than actually taking people to court.

dbpro : p166mmx @ 233 : 256mb : sb 128pci : sis onboard
the_winch
21
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 01:24
baking up a cd (fair use) is legal in a lot of places.

dbpro : p166mmx @ 233 : 256mb : sb 128pci : sis onboard
AlecM
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Concord, MA
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 02:11
or you could just not keep your music in your shared folder. Really dont be so paranoid. By deleting your music you are doing exactly what they want. IF it really ever were to come to an audit you could just swap out your HD and install a fresh copy of windows and claim thats your HD. got nothing on you if you do that.

[P4 2.8C @ 3.03 with an 866mhz FSB:: MSI Neo-2LS running PAT:: 1gb Mushkin PC-3500 DDR High Perf level 2@ 2,2,2 :: ATI Radeon9800ProAIW :: 120Gb SeagateBarracuda 7,200RPM SATA HD :: Antec Plus1080AMG]
Megaton Cat
21
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Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 02:59
I agree with the coding area guy.
Take your hardrive out, strap explosives to it, and chuck it into that RIAA headquarters building.
...
or maybe ignore me and find out a proper way to delete it.


Arrow
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Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 05:02
Coping CDs, DVDs, or Software for you're own personal use is perfectly legal, passing them out to you friends is illegal. After all, you bought it, it's yours to do with what you want. They only time you breal the law is when you deny profet to the original artists, making back up copies does not do that. If it were, why woulds they have DVD abd CD burners or even zip disks or VCRs?


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
John H
Retired Moderator
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 05:04
TGC and I are the G3ri Busters!! w00t!!!


Dont forget to Join the Forums!
Ian T
22
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 06:24
'first of all if you use kazaa well you deserve to be caught'

You're making a lot of enemies there, including, if I remember correctly from their desktop shots, Rich, RobK, TCA, possibly IanM, and definatly me. Oh, and half the rest of the forum

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

FOCAIDASD, geri.
Arrow
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Location: United States
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 06:29
It all depends on what you download, myself for example, spent yesterday downloading commercails and movie trailors for my screensaver. I also use it to find E3 movies and AMVs, all perfectly legal.

In anycase, the RIAA is only sueing people who distribute large amounts of music, if you don't have any mp3s in your share folder or don't share at all, they won't get you.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
HZence
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 06:29
Quote: "Oh, and half the rest of the forum"


and by forum he means world.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Ian T
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 06:33
Yup. The wonderful multimedia industry goes after mp3 sharers when they could be nailing major warez groups. Morons.

By the way Arrow, you can watch just about all the movie previews there are on www.quicktime.com, streaming. In other words no wait time. It's a great site.

Oh and HZense is right, I meant world.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Megaton Cat
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 15:57
hehe
rpgamer seems to be enjoying himself

Mattman
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Location: East Lansing
Posted: 27th Dec 2003 18:50
Why not format your HD?

I am mischeivious
RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 19:08
That doesn't get rid of stuff.
Ian T
22
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 22:28
It's only a single pass, everything will be very recoverable.

Theoretically you could delete the file and keep downloading big game demos until your HDD was full, deleing them, and downloading them over again to wipe it over, but Spybot is only like a megabyte to download and does it so much faster

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 23:32
Which is what I said earlier...


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Dec 2003 23:35
But previous data can still be recovered.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 02:11
I used to use kazaa, then quit because it messed up our computer, and used shareaza. I stopped using shareaza recently, but after RIAA tarted lawsuits. I deleted the programs and music/files i downloaded....shouldnt this hide that i ever downloaded music. The only evidence i see if people do this is the ISP revealing it, and it seems theyre agaisnt the RIAA, as the appeals court ruling showed?

Ian T
22
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 02:17
There are still very obvious traces of those files on your hard drive. If the police were to come to your house and check your hard drive, it would be very easy for them to prove you had downloaded music and used both apps.

Really, people, using Kazza Lite and shred your traces, it's as simple as that

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Location: At home
Posted: 28th Dec 2003 02:18
Quote: "shouldnt this hide that i ever downloaded music."

As has been stated before : No it wont.

Quote: "The only evidence i see if people do this is the ISP revealing it, and it seems theyre agaisnt the RIAA, as the appeals court ruling showed?"

If your American, you've probably got a 30-50% chance of your ISP being subpoena'ed...


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Ian T
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 02:47
'If your American, you've probably got a 30-50% chance of your ISP being subpoena'ed...'

30-50% of all music sharers being subpoenad? No, not at all. Only a few hundred have been so far, out of tens of thousands of American file sharers. They're only hitting big time file sharers, ones with lots of mp3s up for grabs.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Arrow
21
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Location: United States
Posted: 28th Dec 2003 05:07
Quote: "Only a few hundred have been so far, out of tens of thousands of American file sharers"
Try 2.7 million, and that's just Kazaa alone


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
Ian T
22
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 05:13
And the Kazza network is actually going down... loads of people freaked by the RIAA. It'll pass, though. Microsoft's actually building file sharing technology into Longhorn-- not that I'd ever use it, that's sure to be a heavily monitored network, but that just goes to show how important the technology is. The Edonkey network is growing... god I hate that network...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Mentor
22
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Dec 2003 16:07 Edited at: 28th Dec 2003 16:21
download a zero fill utility
install onto bootable floppy and make sure it boots
format all drives
fdisk to one large drive
zero fill ten times
fdisk to working configuration
re-install system

or

delete all your apps and anything none windows apart from DB
write an app to write random files to the HD in DarkBasic over and over (placeing them in the root drive and any other drives you may have used), make sure they are all called ERASERxxx.eras since no other files on your system should be called that (check with find files first tho)
the system and DB will be installed and never move about on the hd after the first defrag, so anything under them will be either blank disk or very old data
DB will fill up the hd and windows will tell you you have run out of HD, call up the dos console (you might have to erase a few files first) and type ERASE ERASER*.eras, you may also need to switch to the other pations on you machine and do the same, just type the drive name followed by a colon eg D: swaps you to drive D:
this all takes time, do this ten times or so, the only parts of the HD that will not have been written to by now will be

the section of disk with DB on it and the program file you made
the section of disk that holds the swap file (but the swap file moves around a little and does it`s own version of overwriting the hd with "random" data)
the section of disk with the BAM and bootsector (files don`t write here..unless they are virrii)
the section of disk with the OS on it (has been there from the day the PC was "born" (more or less) and most likley overwrites blank sections of disk

the first option is the better one, but the second option willl trash residual data so thoroughly it would be realy hard to find anything solid, just the odd soundbite maybe, but they would take some finding.

just a thought, how do they find the files on the drive?, do they look for filenames? or sequences of mp3 data?, they would have to automaticaly search for those, so if the MP3 was compressed to say FM quality, then the search software couldn`t match the data with what it thought the song would look like, since the number sequences making up the audio would be different (you could also zip and encrypt your files maybe).

Mentor.

IMPORTANT NOTE: a zero fill utility writes 1`s and then 0`s to every sector of the hd that it is possible to get the heads too, they are intended to remove realy obstinate virri that can`t be killed any other way or cure serious drive faults, you must let the program finish before you try to use the HD again, otherwise you will find it unusable, also make sure you have the correct app for your drive, do not use a seagate app on a fujitsu drive unless you know it is safe to do so, some zero fill utilities make assumptions about the type of drive they are working with, and you will wind up with an expensive paperweight if you try to use them on the wrong type of drive

System spec : Pentium 3.0Ghz, 512MB DDR, 2x160Gb HD (using icewave hd coolers ), DVD RW/CD RW (all modes), multimedia front panel, 6 way surround sound, ATI radeon 9800Pro 128mb.
Surreal Studio IanG
21
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Location: Cyberspace...I think
Posted: 28th Dec 2003 16:18
If u want to get rid of files buy norton system works and use its wipe info program - it gets rid of your files, you could probaly download it from kazza, that would be funny.

Flick that switch...*BANG*...Not that one!
Mentor
22
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Dec 2003 17:02
system works just erases the binary data once or twice so that the normal drive heads can`t recover the data, the system the police would use involves taking the hd to bits and then using a special "probe" head that can measure how many times the drive has been overwritten, two things allow them to read the drive.

one...the drive will always slightly misaline the writes (a new write doesnt exactly cover the old one) so imagine a binary 1 is a sheet of paper laid on the surface of the disk, the next time it gets written you get the new "one" (the sheet of paper) at a slightly different position, by looking at the edges of the sheet they can tell how many writes happend and what order

two...the cincher, the "probe" head I mentioned can read back into the past of the drive, how the drive works is that the head has a write and an erase section on it, when you write new data to the drive the heads erase section clears the drive just before the write section gets there.
This allows the heads in the drive to overwrite the old data wich is still there even if you erased it (all file delete does is delete the pointer in the BAM to the sectors with the data on so it can be re-used), then the head just writes over the data, but the erase will never perfectly delete the old data, it has to pass over that spot and erase it ten times at least to make the data too weak for something like the probe head to be able to read it, but once is enough for normal operation of the drive.
so until that section of the drive has been overwritten ten times you can read the weaker and weaker signals that tell you that the drive had a 1 in this position ten writes ago, even if another 1 (or zero) had overwritten it (remember the bit about the edges overlapping?)
So those nice chappys in the blue uniforms can recover the data from ten writes ago just by looking at weaker and weaker signals from the past writes to the drive.
Remember just a simple file delete leaves the files on the HD, just the pointer is deleted, you can retrieve data easily enough from a delete like that as long as the system hasn`t used the space since then to store something new, you need a special setup to go back deeply into the drives history, having said that, you can download some tools that will enable you to go back a little way on your own, but to go back as far the police or whatever would do you need a clean room and some fancy equipment, and even then they can`t go back as far as the savvy user can overwrite (given time)

Mentor.

System spec : Pentium 3.0Ghz, 512MB DDR, 2x160Gb HD (using icewave hd coolers ), DVD RW/CD RW (all modes), multimedia front panel, 6 way surround sound, ATI radeon 9800Pro 128mb.
mm0zct
20
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Location: scotland-uk
Posted: 31st Dec 2003 00:50
wrap a few turns of the main electricity mains cable round the hdd and leave it there for a while with almost every electrical appliance in the house turned on, bingo, instant a.c. electromagnet and one seriosly wiped hdd. not much chance of recovering files from it then but you will need to reformat and reinstall everything, and thats if it still works.

http://www.larinar.tk
AMD athlon thoroughbred 2200, 512Mb ram, 40Gb HD, ati saphire radeon 9600 atlantis w/128mb ddr ram, good creative-labs soundcard, cd-rw + dvd drives.
Ian T
22
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Posted: 31st Dec 2003 00:57
Just buy a big horseshoe magnet, remove your HD, and leave the latter lying on the first overnight. That should wipe it .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Ian T
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Posted: 31st Dec 2003 01:34
Hey they're still usable after screwing them up with a magnet right

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
JoelJ
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Location: UTAH
Posted: 31st Dec 2003 01:51
hide mouse

...

why wont it work?!?!

you know, when i try some of these 'suggestions' and something goes wrong, i'll take you to court and send my men after you. and let me tell you, i have just totally ruind some guys life because he spamed me and my men are on there way to take over mexico....

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 31st Dec 2003 02:08
Quote: "you know, when i try some of these 'suggestions' and something goes wrong, i'll take you to court and send my men after you. and let me tell you, i have just totally ruind some guys life because he spamed me and my men are on there way to take over mexico...."

Funniest thing I've heard all day


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Arkheii
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Location: QC, Philippines
Posted: 31st Dec 2003 05:41
Why not just buy a new hdd and throw that one out the window? I've never seen anyone so concerned about something like that. So, the police are gonna arrest 90% of these Americans? Besides, how can they tell that a certain mp3 was downloaded from kazaa or is just a backup from CD? I know I backup all my CDs into mp3. Then again, I have no problems because my IP address constantly changes. The benefits of prepaid internet service...
Arkheii
21
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Location: QC, Philippines
Posted: 31st Dec 2003 15:59
Pffff, not like those people will travel halfway around the world looking for some high school kid who downloaded something through Kazaa. The law down here is a little loose anyway. Either way, I don't give a damn. None of my mates seem to give a damn either. What are they gonna do, deport me?

People? I hate people. People are stupid.
aprilfan
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Location: Hell
Posted: 1st Jan 2004 09:01
Step 1- Buy a new hardrive
Step 2- Buy a box o' Frosted Flakes
Step 3- Take out your current HD.(hard drive)
Step 4- Eat the Frosted Flakes
Step 5- Place your current HD in the Frosted Flakes Box
Step 6- Place the new HD in your computer.
Step 7- When and if the RIAA shows up, in response to any question
say "What computer?".

hopefully that helps you, it works for me, whether its the RIAA, ninja assassins, or the FBI, those seven steps work really well.

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