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AppGameKit Studio Chat / AGKS Still slower than AGK Classic?

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DavidAGK
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 12:21
Mentioned this on my game thread but feel it should be here... I've tried AppGameKit Studio for the first time in a while to run my platform game. AGK2 runs it at about 620Fps on average (bounces around) and AppGameKit Studio runs at about 500Fps on average. That's a massive slow-down in AppGameKit Studio! Any clues?

Using latest version of both.
PSY
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 12:28 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 12:28
Hey David,

1. Select Build / FPS Run
2. Insert
at the beginning of your code

#2 should get you a huge performance boost


PSY


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DavidAGK
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 16:27
Cool, OK, I'll try that. Quick question though.... this forces it to not use the latest Vulkan engine doesn't it? Theoretically isn't Vulkan supposed to be faster than OpenGL?
c0d3r9
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 16:41 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 16:42
Yes it forces to use opengl renderer.
And indeed i think vulkan should be faster.
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PSY
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 17:11 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 17:53
I tested this several times.
Using a speed test code, I have 2000 sprites move randomly from the bottom to the top of the screen.

I get ~64 fps using Studio with Vulkan and BUILD / Run
I get between 40 fps and 63 fps using Studio with Vulkan and BUILD / FPS Run, lagging terribly
I get ~173 fps using Studio with OpenGL and BUILD / FPS Run
I get ~150 fps using Studio with OpenGL and BUILD / Run
I get ~350 fps using Classic

At some point, Studio was fixed to run equally fast compared to Classic
There was a bug -->
Quote: "The Studio OpenGL renderer has a bug that causes sprite rendering to be much slower than AGK2 when using Render() or Sync() (fixed in the next version of Studio)"

SEE THIS THREAD https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/225098
There is also a speed test included I made at that point in time.


UPDATE:
The more different sprites you use, the slower is Studio ( OpenGL ) compared to Classic
The test I linked is almost identically fast, as it's using only one sprite.
The test in this post features 15 different sprites, and Classic beats the hell out of Studio



I'm using 64bit on both versions when compiling.
The Studio OpenGL renderer is probably still buggy...

PSY


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SFSW
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 17:16 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 17:18
Another item to check is the compiler bit selection (Edit > Preferences > Build/Build Options > Windows 64-bit checkbox). Studio may set to 64-bit while V2 may be set to 32-bit. The margin of performance difference sounds pretty close to how 64-bit would perform (slower) compared to 32-bit. So it might be the renderer on your system configuration and/or the bit format.
PSY
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 17:48 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 17:53
Quote: "Another item to check is the compiler bit selection (Edit > Preferences > Build/Build Options > Windows 64-bit checkbox). Studio may set to 64-bit while V2 may be set to 32-bit. The margin of performance difference sounds pretty close to how 64-bit would perform (slower) compared to 32-bit. So it might be the renderer on your system configuration and/or the bit format."


64 bit on both Classic and Studio

It seems the more different sprites you use, the slower is Studio ( OpenGL ) compared to Classic ( see my post above yours, I edited it ).
The Studio OpenGL renderer is probably still buggy!


PSY


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PSY
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 19:55 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2020 19:59
So...to recap....

I'm using a total of 10000 moving sprites. There are 15 different sprite GFX used, and randomly assigned to the sprites
Classic gets about 65 fps
Studio with OpenGL gets about 33 fps
Studio with Vulkan gets about 1-3 fps ^^

Same setup with 2000 sprites:
Classic gets about 342 fps
Studio with OpenGL gets about 172 fps
Studio with Vulkan gets about 65 fps


Summary:
When using many different sprites, Classic beats the hell out of Studio OpenGL, and Studio OpenGL is still way faster than Studio Vulkan.
A frame difference that huge would suggest both Studio OpenGL and Vulkan render engines ( or rather, the code that is responsible for sprite rendering ) are still buggy, or am I mistaken?
If so, enlighten me please.

(edit) Using a 970 GTX + I7 2600k, if that helps to narrow down a possible bug.
(edit2) If I use only 1 sprite GFX, Studio performance increases


PSY


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Bengismo
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 20:17
I got very similar results, which is why im still using classic. I also tested various 3d renderings too and the same goes for that, classic is faster on 4 machines I tried.

Studios vulcan renderer is a step backwards as far as i'm concerned. So is the Studio IDE for that matter but thats another issue.
Qube_
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 23:17
I brought up this issue a year ago : https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/224808

Whilst there have been some improvements in Studio I still use AppGameKit Classic 2018-07-12 as that is the fastest version for Windows and Mac ( for me anyway ). Every version after that resulted in a huge frame drop with VSync turned off.

I've also tried Vulkan on Windows, MacOS and iOS but for me it's nowhere near the raw OpenGL speed of AppGameKit Classic 2018-07-12. Big shame really and I'd love for all these legacy issues to be sorted out before any new frilly features are added but on the flip side I do understand that TGC need to make money through the latter.
MadBit
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2020 05:14
What I would be interested in is whether it affects the performance when Studio is not open in the background.
It's just a guess, but I assume that the studio environment is rendered in an OpenGL or Vulcan window.
This could also affect other running programs.

Like I said, it's just a guess.
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PSY
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2020 13:56
Quote: "What I would be interested in is whether it affects the performance when Studio is not open in the background."


Nope, already tested that


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c0d3r9
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 10:10
I thought that this problem was solved in one of the last versions. Or am I wrong?
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PSY
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 13:45
I thought it was solved, because of this thread https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/225098

The speed test I posted then was equally fast on both Studio and Classic after that update I was talking about.

However, I guess I forgot to test it with different sprite GFX back then. The test only used 1 sprite GFX ( the AppGameKit logo ).

The more different sprite GFX you use ( like 15 space ships I'm using now ), the slower is Studio OpenGL compared to Classic. About twice as slow.

And Vulkan is even ( way ) slower...


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DavidAGK
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 15:29
To me, and I'm sure others, this is super critical! No point in developing other areas until this is fixed in Studio. Performance is key! Regression in this area, especially when Vulkan is supposedly faster than OpenGL is a bit of a shocker!

I'm hoping that Studio will gain media encryption at some stage (before I get to that stage in my game dev) but it becomes a mute point if I can't migrate to Studio because of poor performance. Please TGC, get this popped to the top of your list!!
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 15:59 Edited at: 4th Jul 2020 16:01
Yes, it does need to be fixed - I totally agree.

But...That said, you can just use AppGameKit classic if your after the faster rendering speed (No point in even using vulcan if its slower - its not like there are any other benefits currently). This isn't really 'super critical' since there is a 2 second solution if people want that speed by using the older version (assuming they have classic). I'm sure TGC will get round to looking at this issue eventually, but at the moment I think they are spending all the time on GameGuru Max rather than doing much on AppGameKit studio. The last newsletter (out this week) just mentioned fixing a few bugs in studio - no details.


Regarding media encryption:
I can post up my solution to this which is fairly new but works well. Its very easy to implement. Everything is fully encrypted and can be loaded directly from a single or multiple encrypted data files with no special code needed- it can be password protected or not . (only exception is music playing (OGG/MP3) which I havent got round to coding in yet). Also Wadpacker does a pretty good job if not quite perfect.
Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 16:29
@bengismo, please do post your encryption solution. preferably in its own thread so that it can be found via search.
c0d3r9
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 19:28
Is there an open bug entry on guthub for this issue?
I´m not familar in deep with github...is there a search option inside?

Maybe anybody should post a bug report.
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PSY
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 20:09 Edited at: 4th Jul 2020 20:10
Just did a quick search, couldn't find the bug on GitHub https://github.com/TheGameCreators/AGK-Studio/issues

I searched for fast, slow and sprite


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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 22:26
Hi bengismo.
Would LOVE to see your protection solution i bet i can even increase its security.

Please post it if you dont mind.
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 22:50 Edited at: 4th Jul 2020 22:53
i don't have studio and i'm not familiar with a "FPS Run" option but does THIS help? (ack, i just saw Psy's post above)

also, is THIS a hopeful?

*both found searching "frame rate"
PSY
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 23:20 Edited at: 4th Jul 2020 23:21
Hey Virtual Nomad,

I found the indexing thread, too

Might be related to the issue. Maybe the indexing was implemented in Classic, but has not been implemented in Studio yet?

I also wrote a quick test code which does similar tests in 3D ( just coloured cubes ), where Studio OpenGL is faster than Classic.

So, it seems to be a 2D ( sprite ) problem only.


Considering the fps loss, I think this is a very serious bug.
Could anybody open a bug report on GitHub?
I'm not (yet) that familiar with GitHub, and I don't want to mess it up


PSY


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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 23:35 Edited at: 4th Jul 2020 23:36
Quote: "Could anybody open a bug report on GitHub?"

i could enter it but how should it be titled/worded, exactly? i'll link this thread into the report, as well. any other current, related threads that should be included?
PSY
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Posted: 4th Jul 2020 23:58 Edited at: 5th Jul 2020 00:03
Maybe
Studio OpenGL much slower than Classic when rendering many sprites with different images
?

I don't think any threads other than this need to be included.

Here's an FPS overview ( mentioned in the thread, but maybe it should be noted in the bug report, too ):
I'm using a total of 10000 moving sprites. There are 15 different sprite GFX used, and randomly assigned to the sprites.
Classic gets about 65 fps
Studio with OpenGL gets about 33 fps
Studio with Vulkan gets about 1-3 fps ^^

Same setup with 2000 sprites:
Classic gets about 342 fps
Studio with OpenGL gets about 172 fps
Studio with Vulkan gets about 65 fps


PSY


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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 5th Jul 2020 00:02 Edited at: 5th Jul 2020 00:06
ADDed.

meanwhile, assuming you have a GitHub account, selecting Issues on a given repo, you'll find the New Issue button near the top right of the page. it's that easy.

*and, we should search before posting a new issue to avoid duplicates/slowing down the process.
PSY
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Posted: 5th Jul 2020 00:06 Edited at: 5th Jul 2020 00:06
Damn, edited my post while you added

I think I reported an issue on GitHub once. It's just been a long time, and I don't know if anything has changed since then.
I just didn't want to mess it up I'll get familiar with it next week...

Thanks alot for adding it, Virtual Nomad


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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 5th Jul 2020 00:12 Edited at: 5th Jul 2020 00:20
Quote: "edited my post while you added "

the title looks the same?

meanwhile, there has been life on the git where some bugs are showing recently fixed, others recently confirmed, etc.

@ c0d3r9, the search field is just right of the filters pull-down: https://github.com/TheGameCreators/AGK-Studio/issues
PSY
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Posted: 5th Jul 2020 00:23
Everything's fine, I put some additional info in a comment



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xcode77
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Posted: 6th Jul 2020 13:05
Vulcan is about 60 fps slower on my machine compared to using OpenGL in 3D (360 vs 420fps).
Im hoping this gets improved over the next few months.
One thing I haven't heard people say though (which is just as important to me), Studio's new 3D renderer is better quality than the #basic renderer / AGK2 renderer
PSY
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Posted: 6th Jul 2020 20:16
Quote: "One thing I haven't heard people say though (which is just as important to me), Studio's new 3D renderer is better quality than the #basic renderer / AGK2 renderer"


That's right, Studio OpenGL 3D rendering is faster than Classic 3D.
I think that's a very good thing!


PSY


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Zuchini
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Posted: 11th Jul 2020 14:13

AGK2 --> 1070 FPS
AGK-Studio both the same with Vulkan and OGL --> 980 FPS

I compiled them on both systems and started from Exe

starting from the "Run Icon" inside the IDE, the AGK2 is 20 FPS slower than starting from IDE in Studio.
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DavidAGK
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2020 08:13
It's a shame to take a step backwards!!!
BITBITBIT
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 04:28 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 04:33
I completely understand that TheGameCreator needs to add new features to attract new subscriptions, but I wonder how did they decide which features people want the best?

If it's just based on the recent questionnaire/survey, I don't remember seeing any request for graphical/tiles/3D editor being requested on the forum much. People just ticked on that option just because it was there.
Even if there are sporadic requests, the necessity to have a 'stable' product far outweight the new features.

To be honest, I personally will repeat-buy AppGameKit yearly if it means the current AppGameKit Classic is being improved and stabilized bit by bit, and new features are only added if it doesn't compromise stability.
But as of now, Studio seems to hinder the stability progress. There are still alot of bugs brought over from Classic that is still no fixed. Logically, there's no sense in buying a new product if the new is worse than the last.

What I'm trying to say is, if stability fixes and basic feature is being slowed down/put on the backseat to make way for non-vital new features, it will not be good for AGK/TheGameCreator in long term. New user will be appalled by the new bugs, and the old users will move on due to being frustrated. I sure hope AppGameKit will not end up in the same debacle as GameGuru.
GarBenjamin
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2020 05:47 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2020 05:50
BITBITBIT

That's not a bad idea about yearly payments. I got a subscription to Construct 3 a year or two ago. It actually uses an annual subscription.
I honestly, don't see how any business could run selling something like AGK/AGKS for a one time low price and then update the product for years and years for no additional charge. Yes, Unity and others do it but even they added optional pricing for Personal Edition, etc. And, they also have people buying the Pro version which is very expensive. Thousands of dollars per year the last I knew and all of those paid sales carry the free users. No business can stay in business just giving and giving and giving. Need to pay people!

Anyway, I'd happily pay $50 per year for AGK. Maybe they could make it optional just set up a way for the people willing to pay it.
Definitely, focus on stability and optimizing speed as much as possible. If everything is super stable and running as fast as possible we can do whatever we need ourselves.
Way I see it anyway. Of course, always nice if they do add some extra things now and then but stability and raw speed first is my hope.

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