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AppGameKit Studio Chat / Should I upgrade to studio

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Pfaber1
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Location: England
Posted: 22nd Mar 2021 14:37
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Hi I have been using AGK2 for a few years and am thinking of upgrading to Studio. I've noticed a problem with the fps in the trial edition . It starts off ok but then dips down to 50 fps which is slower than AGK2 running exactly the same project. What do you think upgrade or not? Thanks for reading.
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2021 14:45
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What do you want to do in Studio that you can't do in AGK2 unless you want to use the scene editor/have Vulkan support? I wouldn't go on too much by a demo.
I personally prefer AGK2, but that's just me.
Professional Programmer, languages: SAS, C++, SQL, PL-SQL, DBPro, Purebasic, JavaScript, others
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2021 15:22
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I really wanted it for the vulkan support although in the trial it was a bit choppy compared to using it in renderer basic mode. Might just be the trial though.
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SFSW
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2021 21:02
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It could also be the system you are testing on. If you are using a laptop with split display devices (an integrated plus a dedicated GPU), many mobile configurations don't yet pick up Vulkan very well and need to be manually enabled in order to best utilize that API. Otherwise, you'll be comparing an integrated display device trying to manage Vulkan and comparing it to a dedicated GPU running OpenGL. And the OpenGL on a dedicated GPU will do much better. So if Vulkan is running significantly worse/choppy compared to the 'basic' render mode, that is something to check.

To enable a mobile GPU for Vulkan on Windows 10:

- Type in 'graphics settings' in search, open the app by the same name.
- Make sure 'Desktop App' is selected in the drop down menu, then click on 'Browse'.
- Find the player in the folder for the project you are testing and select it.
- Then in Options for the app/program, select the 'High Performance' checkbox, then save.

From then on, you'll be utilizing any dedicated GPU for the app/program. If you're not running such a system, then this won't apply. But most of the time when I've heard of a similar issue like you reported, it has to do with the system's lack of detecting Vulkan to enable a dedicated GPU.
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n00bstar
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2021 22:30
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Short answer: No.

Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
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timd35b
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 00:16
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I like studio, as I can use the scene manager to place objects and then code around that. I would say that it boils down to personal preference. As far as performance, I have never had a noticeable diff between AppGameKit and AGKS.
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Loktofeit
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 00:19 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2021 00:23
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The only actual benefit I have heard of with AppGameKit Studio is the debugger. Outside of that, AppGameKit 2 seems far superior in both features and customization.

On the Steam forums, someone had said "Most of them still using AppGameKit "Classic" . And i can't understand why!"

Here was my answer:

Quote: "
I have both. I use AppGameKit Classic (AGK2).

- The AGK2 Geany IDE is more configurable/customizable.
- Search/Replace are full-featured panels, not tiny boxes with teeny one-letter buttons
- AGK2 Replace feature has "Session" and "Open Documents" options, AGKS does not
- The symbols/functions/variable lists are more visible and useful
- AGKS doesn't acknowledge the splash and setup files that AppGameKit can use
- AGK2 has asterisk and color change on tabs of files that were changed but not saved. Yes, those are now a dot in the first column in AGKS, which is an odd way of doing things.
- AGKS arbitrarily alphabetizes project files in the tab. There is no logical reason to do so.
- The AGKS Help feature doesn't have Help for any of the core commands.
- AGK2 help pages have more info/examples than AGKS in-editor help pages
- Basic functions missing from the menu. Save All is only available as a toolbar icon
- AGKS lacks industry-standard Alt-key and arrow controls for Menu navigation
- AGK2 has a color picker
- The comment/uncomment in AGKS context menu is kind of useless because it uses some bizarre "//~" comment system. If you did not adopt their arbitrary system, 'uncomment code' no longer works. So far I have found no way to change their "//~" nonsense.
- AGKS' selling point is Vulkan. AGK2 and OpenGL on AGKS are faster. (source: https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/226536 )

AGK kicks ass.
AGK2 is great.

AGKS is... not kicking any ass and not great."


tl;dr - What n00bstar said.
LynxJSA's web games/quizzes - LynxJSA's Android apps
AGK Resource Directory
"Stick to a single main loop (DO...LOOP) and loop through it every frame.
Do everything inside functions.
Use finite state machines to control your game.
Use lots and lots of source files.
Use virtual resolution instead of the default percentage system." - Digital Awakening
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 02:25
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Really bro? Are you asking if its worth to spend 38 euros ok agks? Would it hurt you that much?... I bought at a diacount on steam and i have just open it like 2 times cause am not a programme nor interested to be one.still,38 euros or so i paid surely dont hurt. Try and if not what the hell,its cents at a discount.
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 03:26 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2021 03:26
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pfaber1,

i know there are issues with the demo but, given the sales regularly offered, the refund policy, and the fact that you've been interested for a year and 1/2, i see no reason for you not to take the plunge
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Vectrex71CH
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 04:29
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I personally love Studio more than AGK2 . AKG2 has an old GUI that looks like from the 90s. Studio is fresh and clean. Has Vulkan support and a integrated Scene Editor. Thanks to the standard dark themed GUI you can focus better on what's matter. The Media Library is great and useful. I also love the functionality to just drag and drop Code from the internal Help into the editor and it's fully compatible with AGK2. Why ride a dead horse (AGK2) when you can have a new, fresh product. But this are only my 2 cents !

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Loktofeit
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 08:53 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2021 08:54
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Vectrex71CH wrote: "Why ride a dead horse (AGK2) when you can have a new, fresh product."


This isn't the first time you've referred to AGK2 in that manner.
Did you read something about ending support for AGK2?
Where is it you are getting that from?
LynxJSA's web games/quizzes - LynxJSA's Android apps
AGK Resource Directory
"Stick to a single main loop (DO...LOOP) and loop through it every frame.
Do everything inside functions.
Use finite state machines to control your game.
Use lots and lots of source files.
Use virtual resolution instead of the default percentage system." - Digital Awakening
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DannyD
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 09:18
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Sorry to disappoint you alll.... But since I have AGKS I hardly touch AGK2>>

The only time lately I use agk2, is when I think it might be a bug in AGKS, I will load the code in AGK2 to test.

My 2 cents..

Interesting world.... Some like BMW, Some Mercedes and other VW or not one of these hahahaha
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Loktofeit
AGK Developer
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 12:35
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DannyD wrote: "But since I have AGKS I hardly touch AGK2>>"


The main features people seem to prefer are the Vulcan support, the debugger, and the scene editor.
What are some of the other aspects of AppGameKit Studio that you find preferable to AGK2?




LynxJSA's web games/quizzes - LynxJSA's Android apps
AGK Resource Directory
"Stick to a single main loop (DO...LOOP) and loop through it every frame.
Do everything inside functions.
Use finite state machines to control your game.
Use lots and lots of source files.
Use virtual resolution instead of the default percentage system." - Digital Awakening
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n00bstar
20
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Joined: 9th Feb 2004
Location: Montreal, Canada.
Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 20:48
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The debugger is alright. The live editing of variables can be useful to some people. Vulkan support is, for me at least, meaningless. OGL is more widely supported and has fewer problems overall. The scene editor is complete trash and should never be used. The IDE is a big MEH and has nothing on Geany. Too many quality of life features missing. I do like the offline help though, that's a big plus over Classic that just sends you to the webpage. The only reason I stuck with Studio for a while is because of the color scheme. I found files here on the forum to make Geany all dark-themed and I've since switched back to Classic.

I do get better framerate in Studio in some instances, but not that often. Anyways, I got both so I can always export from Studio if I need that tiny boost.

I don't think Studio is a finished product. It feels incomplete and I don't see TGC bringing it up to snuff any time this century.
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jd_zoo
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Joined: 12th May 2018
Location: Nova Scotia
Posted: 23rd Mar 2021 23:15
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I used AGK2 for a year before Studio was released, but prefer a dark theme and after switching to Studio I can't look back other than to test in AGK2 on rare occasion. For me the reasons are the functional and attractive IDE, I currently have a mammoth 45K lines going in Studio and shudder at thinking about getting around this in AGK2. I don't use the scene editor other than the initial laying out of graphics to get coordinates (if I don't have a layout going in Photoshop) then delete them anyway. My 3D levels are all created in Blender so I haven't joined group of voices saying Studio is missing a 3d scene editor. Vulkan can be disabled with a single line of code at start of program and no other changes required.

But everyone's workflow is different so listening to me or anyone else's on choice between software that does same thing by the same developer is a waste of time. Fun to read the debates, but still a waste. It is all personal preference. I disagree with quite a few replies to this thread, I feel Studio is a fully fleshed out product with lots of room to grow.

The AGK2 visual editor addon is the only piece of software I purchased from TGC that never seemed to be finished.



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DannyD
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 03:36
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@LoktoFeit

There can much feature be added to AGKS but I jsut like it over AGK

Quote: "What are some of the other aspects of AppGameKit Studio that you find preferable to AGK2?"


* Vulkan... No use to me at all.
* Like the quick "help" available
* Drag & drop of media
* Use MEdia from "other" fodler and copy to current project
* Dark theme I like.. instead of the Classic White- Feels to old school
* I know people complain about the Scene Editor, But it saves me hours of screen design...
* Quickly get sprite position, resizing

Cherio
D
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 05:42
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Hmm well I've decided I'm going to purchase studio when it is next on sale . Thanks for all the replies and your help.
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Zaxxan
AGK Developer
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Posted: 24th Mar 2021 17:09
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I purchased Studio but I don't like it as much as Cassic for most of the reasons already mentioned on here. I don't regret buying it though as every sale helps the developers.
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 1st Apr 2021 09:12
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Well I bought it and love it. Purchased from steam. I really like the IDE good for my eyes. A good upgrade without having to learn a new language. Excellent . £31.59 doesn't get much better than that. Finished off a program I've been putting together last night with it and all went well. Have a nice day.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2021 17:11
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I’m glad you like it. The choice between the 2 versions is down to personal preference i think. I'm just pleased that we have 2 versions to choose from!
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 5th Apr 2021 13:56 Edited at: 5th Apr 2021 14:19
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Just did a little experiment in moving a cube across the screen and in Basic renderer it was clocking up about 250 fps and in Prefer Best about 500 which is what I set the FPS to so would go higher . Gonna be selecting prefer best on my games . That is quite a performance boost. I did a similar test with the trial version of studio when I had it and got similar results .
The way I see it is if this works this way in all situations it's the equivalent of doubling the speed of my computer . If I'm wrong about this please tell me why. So far I really like Studio and am very pleased to be using it . Have an awesome day.
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 5th Apr 2021 14:40
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Vulkan was my main reason for wanting to upgrade as nearly all my stuff is 3D and I have a compatible computer . The scene editor is of no use to me .
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Kevin Cross
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Posted: 17th Apr 2021 11:32
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Personally I would prefer to go back to AppGameKit Classic. I only moved to Studio because AppGameKit Classic stopped working on my Mac, and there was no solution to the problem. I can't remember the exact problem now but I think it was missing files. Not project files. Files that AppGameKit Classic needed. No amount of reinstalling worked. It was around that point that I installed Parallels and Windows where it worked, but it still needed Studio on the Mac to export to iOS. In the end it was just more convenient to switch to Studio permanently.

Based on what I've seen mentioned from TGC, Classic won't get the same attention and updates as Studio anymore, so you probably will have to upgrade eventually.

Studio isn't that bad, but I don't use any feature in it apart from the code editor window, the two play buttons (play on computer, and stream to device), as well as File > Export. I don't use scene editor, and I've yet looked at or even really needed the debugging/variable watching options you can do with it. I'm stuck with old habits of printing to the screen variables and their values I want to see.
OryUI - A WIP AGK2 UI Framework
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 18th Apr 2021 16:36
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I've been working on a new game the past few days and decided I needed clumps of grass all over the place . I used the cloneobject command and this worked fine and made 9000 clones which were positioned all about my terrain . I then thought this is overkill and am now using 4000 clones which was very good and went with it . I then tried to run it in AppGameKit Classic and it would not run saying error out of GPU memory. Thoughts anybody? And I initially used 9000 clones in Studio and worked fine with that amount . In Studio it works with "Prefer Best" and "Basic" .
So the differences are not just in the way the IDE works or Vulkan but other stuff too. Just thought I would share my findings .
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Loktofeit
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Posted: 18th Apr 2021 23:41
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"Thoughts anybody?"

In most cases, if you have more than 1,000 of anything, and it isn't data entries or tris, then you're doing it wrong.

LynxJSA's web games/quizzes - LynxJSA's Android apps
AGK Resource Directory
"Stick to a single main loop (DO...LOOP) and loop through it every frame.
Do everything inside functions.
Use finite state machines to control your game.
Use lots and lots of source files.
Use virtual resolution instead of the default percentage system." - Digital Awakening
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 19th Apr 2021 16:34 Edited at: 19th Apr 2021 17:15
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Yes I appreciate what you're saying but it does work and only 30 to 40 are visible at any time .
What we're talking about here is 4000 clumps of grass for my terrain. And they are all clones . Anyway studio can handle it ok and classic not as well . These are my findings.
what I am doing is populating my terrain with grass ( 4 thousand pieces of ) am I wrong in doing this or is their a better way like maybe drawing them as I go along . Please let me know.

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TamBam
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Posted: 19th Apr 2021 19:16
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yes you go with studio its my opinion because its help you to save time . but as according FPS what I doing -> I coding all in studio and the final compile and creating apk from Classic . I hope its help and solve the problems .
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