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AppGameKit Studio Chat / [LOCKED] The future of AGk - views and opinions

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Aidan
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Posted: 20th Oct 2023 16:00 Edited at: 20th Oct 2023 16:39
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Hello all,

There has been a thread open that digressed slowly but surely of having thoughts, views and opinions on future of AppGameKit instead of the topic intended.

Here is a thread to express our thoughts, views, opinions on what it could mean to us (AGk developers) nstead of bombarding or going off topic of other threads

Keeping things relevant to the topic as many would not go into the threads if doesn't mean anything to them

Anything is possible with the current command set

Take a look at many developments or WIPs or going to production so it at the moment is fully developed tool to create decent apps

The only thing for me is menblock speeds

Hope that makes sense

Aidan
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 20th Oct 2023 17:11
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Quote: "The future of AGk - views and opinions "

The future is imagination, the past is memories, both thought processes. My only reality is a perpetual state of now.

For now, I am using AGK. I remember using AppGameKit in the past, and I imagine I'll be using it in the future. So, yeah. I'm a user.

As for the development of AppGameKit, only TGC knows. That's not for me to say.

I'll only comment about my personal experience and use of AppGameKit, and my current plans for its future use. I can confidently say that AppGameKit now has enough commands and now supports enough devices that I can continue to develop my apps for years to come. There is no guarantee that I'll be here tomorrow, but if I am, I'll be using AppGameKit, just like today, and yesterday.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Zappo
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Posted: 20th Oct 2023 23:59
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I hope to keep using AppGameKit Studio in the future. I love how easy it is to produce great mobile apps, quickly. It's the best development tool I have used to test and complete my app ideas.

That being said, there are problems that need to be fixed. I am not talking about new features or commands. I don't need anything "new", but I do need some of the existing things fixed that are on GitHub before I can release a game I have worked on for about a year. Sadly it doesn't look like those fixes are going to come so in the back of my mind I have been contemplating remaking the game using something else. That is NOT something I want to do because it works great in AppGameKit, but I might not have an option. If I move away from AppGameKit for this app then I might as well make future apps in something else too, which is a shame. I remain in hope.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 21st Oct 2023 06:03 Edited at: 21st Oct 2023 06:08
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If it work for you and get you where you want to arrive, by all means use it.
That said,i dont believe is good practice to ignore a product and its community even if yOu are working on another one. if future is messure in Users then i believe those practices will badly hurt the community.

What i am going to repeat is: Use it as it is without thinking on the future.
I myself am interested in 3D and sadly AppGameKit dosnt have the tools for a lonewolf to be productive.

But one thing i am sure: As soon as GGMax stop making money,wich surely already isnt high, TGC will come back to AppGameKit then back and forth,so has it always been. So am mot afraid of its future but i also dont think it will ever offer what am looking for thus everyone decide by himself.
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Lance
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Posted: 21st Oct 2023 19:19 Edited at: 21st Oct 2023 19:20
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I prefer AppGameKit over Studio . I bought Studio to help out TGC , but don't use it ..

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Arch-Ok
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2023 00:15
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@Lance same here and I've never used any of them for a month now.
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Motiejus
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2023 21:55
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I love AppGameKit, it is a pure joy to use.
I've done a few games in Unity, but never really liked Unity.
Due to the recent Unity drama I switched to AppGameKit for my next game.
What a delight AppGameKit is.
Since I'm a total noob to AppGameKit, I had no idea that it had been sidelined by TGC and it's future is in doubt.
I wish I had known that before spending money on it and investing a month of my time on it.
(and now it's on sale on Steam, D'oh!)
There's a few bugs that might never be fixed, and each of those bugs are showstoppers for my project.
So now I've started over in Godot and have made decent progress with it.

Bottom line for me:
AGK is way more fun to use than Unity or Godot.
If a new version of AppGameKit came out with some bug fixes and/or improvements and/or new features then I'd 100% buy the new version and switch back to it.
But for now the existing bugs rule it out for me.
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2023 22:07 Edited at: 24th Oct 2023 00:34
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Quote: "now it's on sale on Steam"

didn't know and that's a pretty healthy sale (75% off).

meanwhile, and this isn't the thread for it, so post a new thread re: said "show stoppers" and we'll see if there might be relatively painless workarounds, @Motiejus?

as far as i know, (most of) these might be considered such while the rest, "not so much".
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Zappo
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2023 23:55 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2023 23:58
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@Virtual Nomad: I know you wanted these in a new thread but I just wanted to point out that some of the "show stoppers" aren't always flagged as high priority. This one I posted over a year ago has prevented me publishing a game. If I can't have touch screen buttons at the top or bottom of the screen detected immediately then this particular game won't work. I even dug into the problem and posted a possible fix for it.

EDIT: Forgot link https://github.com/TheGameCreators/AGK-Studio/issues/1024
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 00:27 Edited at: 24th Oct 2023 00:35
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Quote: "but"

...

meanwhile, re-reading the issue and apparently there is no work-around? i expect i skimmed the issue, saw the words "possible solution" and tagged it accordingly. re-tagged per the criteria here.

actually, it doesn't cause crash so back to medium and struck the reference above...
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 11:44 Edited at: 24th Oct 2023 17:20
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Apparently there is going to be an announcement about AppGameKit this week. Let s hope it's good news.

https://github.com/TheGameCreators/AGK-Studio/issues/1114#issuecomment-1776857550
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James H
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 16:18
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@Zaxxan Well now I want to get excited, except for the chance of bad news! How is it you know this? You are magic right? Thats it isn't it, you sir are a secret wizard!

As always I hope the for the best outcome, in the past that was pinned on DBP, now it's AGKS.

For the here and now I am not moving away from AGKS. Hopefully I am not far from a first release of my basic 3D terrain/object placement editor...don't expect too much of it though!

With the whole Unity debacle and the exodus(probably too strong a word to use), maybe, just maybe, we are about to get good news.
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 17:20 Edited at: 24th Oct 2023 17:21
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@James H - see HERE and the follow-up from mike.

this should keep some going for awhile.
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Aidan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 18:38
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There are all some powerful feedback here, thanks everyone so far

Just remember to keep to the topic and create new threads for your own requirements

Keep them all coming in by all means.

Any feedbacks will be useful I'm sure


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Zaxxan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 18:54
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Hopefully if TGC make the announcement this week we can all then stop speculating what the future of AppGameKit is.
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Aidan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 19:26 Edited at: 24th Oct 2023 19:45
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@virtual nomad - thanks for that, sounds promising.

Remember we have a lost developer Paul who knew AGk code from back of his hand cause it's Paul's code and inspiration years and years ago.

Just remember, new staff coming in deciphering code can be quite challenging and time consuming.

I forsee no problems, just takes time for any developer learning old programmers ways and habits.

Hopefully you will be with me with this

I can see a future cause no news is always good news, they haven't taken off market so thats promising to start with.

Companies reduce prices because of lack of updates - it just shows they are still listening. Just takes time.

But by all means stay positive and keep feedback coming

Note: do we remember how "no man sky" game started and how they finished? Just a thought.
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James H
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 20:44
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@Virtual Nomad Thanks

Quote: "should "


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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 21:57 Edited at: 24th Oct 2023 22:13
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welcome news and it sounds good to me.

and, yes, i've let them know that it should have been posted here (?) but, hey... just happy to hear more than crickets
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 22:05 Edited at: 24th Oct 2023 22:25
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That's interesting news indeed!

Is this the news that Dave(TGC) referred to or is there more news to come this week?
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Aidan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 22:51
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There we go.

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James H
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Posted: 24th Oct 2023 23:36
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Quote: "Is this the news that Dave(TGC) referred to or is there more news to come this week?"


+1 it does look as though wires might have been crossed with the where and when

Next question from me is a bunch of them lol

How many and who will be taking up the mantle(well okay that is rhetorical at this point), I was not around for the GGC switch to community based model, not exactly sure what it entails, only ever needed Github to read the bugs/issues. Does this mean that there will be no formal announcement of interested parties via say a MOD for example organizing things - they will either use Github or they won't so we just sit here and hope and pray like with DBP? I can only hope they have some sort of license that means you can't have your own private version - has to be for public release, is this even a possibility? I only knew of 3 attempts at DBP(well 3 I can recall), for one you had to be invited to the ODB discord, I am on that discord and its rare to see activity at all and when there is its usually about other programs. Not even sure how I got the invite, I just recall getting there and thinking, err these folks think I know c++ sshhhh be quiet, they won't notice and I can keep abreast of progress! One of the other attempts was by boredoftherings, who only gave it out to those that posted or sent a message - and that was years after the last update by TGC was released - when there was like 10 of us left lol. That was for 64 bit compatibility only, folks had said it was not true 64bit. The user however not long after making the offer to those that sent a message, then went on a post rampage across the forum and got banned. So out of the 3 I know of, one was released that none of us where even aware was in the pipeline until release day - a long time after the last TGC release, you could only use a few plugins with it though. Would it also mean we would have to compile ourselves - this I often see elsewhere on Git when searching for older programs using search engine links, only think I have ever seen DBP with a compiled version. Now i only bring that nonsense up because I would like to be optimistic but also have to be a realist at the same time and learn as soon as possible the MOST likely outcome of exactly how this would play out for us the end user who won't be able to contribute due to ability(there should be a fair few given the target of BASIC is those with no previous programming knowledge).

So thoughts? (preferably the positives and realistic ones only lol)

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Zaxxan
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Posted: 25th Oct 2023 00:33 Edited at: 25th Oct 2023 00:36
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I think the way that the Gameguru classic GitHub works is that users make submissions and if TGC like them they make them part of the main fork. This way the community help to develop it but overall control is kept by TGC. Users can have their own private versions but they cannot be released publicly. I think that is how it works but I'm happy to be corrected! I also don't use GitHub much so not sure if I have used the correct terminology.
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James H
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Posted: 25th Oct 2023 01:45
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That sounds promising if it is the case. The reason I would rather not let the whole private use thing happen obviously isn't because I am evil, but because of concern of loss of input to the community. The specific concern being that nobody picks up and progresses the community version or the folks with more ability end up being the ones not contributing to said version. Time will tell I guess.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 25th Oct 2023 08:42
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I hope he is talking AGKS and Not AGKC, for AGKC the only Future i see is EOL, it is extremely nice from TGC to keep it alive though.
Is somewhat confusing when they talk about AppGameKit without specifiying wich version but i guess is meant as a whole.

Eagerly waiting to know what are the future plans amd mostly if new tools will be added to further Aid the user.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 25th Oct 2023 09:51 Edited at: 25th Oct 2023 09:51
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Classic will be supported by occasional updates which I assume will be for Google and iOS compliance. Studio will move to GitHub and will be improved with community input.
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 25th Oct 2023 13:10 Edited at: 25th Oct 2023 13:29
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an api33 version of Classic for WIN is available at steam and TGC.
unsure what the "october backup" version that you'll see is (can always revert to 2023.01.26) but i'm sure there are no other updates so only grab the api33 version if that's what you've been waiting for.
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Sph!nx
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Posted: 25th Oct 2023 15:23
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This thread makes me happy! Thanks for all the info guys!
Regards Sph!nx
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 25th Oct 2023 17:54
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I'm having issues exporting AAB files with the latest update. I get an error 'failed to read manifest file'. The January update works ok. Anyone else seeing this issue? This effects the TGC and Steam versions.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 26th Oct 2023 06:44
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A programing language that is not updated is not a good thing.

And being left in the dark is also not a good thing.

Making others like me think about moving on to something else that is a regular thing like c or c++ .

they have been around for years and still get updates and all the other language's there are.

I also understand that App Game Kit is written with C++ and compiled on another enterpeture so this could be updated a lot more.

I guess I will have to stay around awhile to see what happens.

Till then gentleman, we will see.
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Aidan
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Posted: 26th Oct 2023 18:05
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Thank you everyone, there must be lots more of you.

Please share your thoughts, good or bad.

Companies thrive on positives including negatives

Like I said before look at how "no man's sky" started and finished

Keep them coming
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James H
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Posted: 26th Oct 2023 21:08
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For anyone not aware we did get some decent news recently, it is quite positive

https://www.thegamecreators.com/post/appgamekit-an-update

https://youtu.be/Ykn5kwaWSh4?t=1709

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Zaxxan
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Posted: 26th Oct 2023 22:06 Edited at: 26th Oct 2023 22:08
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@jamesh, thanks for the link to the YouTube video. I fell asleep watching that broadcast and missed the bit about AppGameKit. It does appear to be good news considering whats happened over the last few weeks.
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GemGames
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I'm excited at the prospect of continued support from TGC for AppGameKit! I intend to continue to use both AppGameKit Classic and AppGameKit Studio, especially for creating HTML5 games.

I am happy to see that TGC has made an announcement that, if I understood it correctly, means that TGC intends to continue support for AppGameKit well into the future. That is great news!

I feel that AppGameKit is a wonderful platform to develop on, whether tier 1 (BASIC language) or tier 2 (C/C++ language). If TGC continues to support AppGameKit as a product, then that is even better. But even if TGC decided to no longer support AppGameKit as a product, I feel it would still be a great tool for a relatively static target platform like HTML5, which should remain backward compatible for a long time.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 27th Oct 2023 04:43
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I also find it VERY generous from TGC to support it.
Am sure they are aware that if sales were low its going to be even lower after this news and to commit to support it atleast for some years is a VERY brave move and a sign that they care for the community.

So no negative comment from me this time.

Thanks TGC and my wallet will be ready if a new toy comes with a level editor,shadergraph and tier 1 programming
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XanthorXIII
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Posted: 28th Oct 2023 18:29
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I would ask TGC to continue supporting App Game Kit as there is currently nothing on the market that allows us to develop games and test to multiple devices at the click of a button. I don't know why Lee thinks there's no room for a practical game development tool that is for programming, If they need to develop a new version maybe start moving away from Basic and towards a Javscript based version to keep up with the times so to speak.
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Yeshu777
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Personally,

I'd really like support for Raspberry Pi 4 ( or the newly released Pi 5 )

I'd be happy to collaborate with TGC to acheive this.

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Aidan
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Posted: 28th Oct 2023 18:56 Edited at: 28th Oct 2023 18:57
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Just remember they haven't taken AGk off the market so that's good sign. Just "freezed" updates.

If there is anything wrong with the current command set, please then go through the correct route and add to their GitHub issues.

I need to now start looking at getting a laptop so I can start using it again in the new year.

All good for what I'm hearing
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qweQua
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Posted: 30th Oct 2023 06:34 Edited at: 30th Oct 2023 06:34
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[quote="Javscript based version"]
Maybe LUA would be a better fit with lua's simple agk-like syntax and javascript's dependance on being wrapped in a web browser.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 30th Oct 2023 17:34 Edited at: 30th Oct 2023 17:39
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Quote: "Maybe LUA would be a better fit"


Some people have mentioned the same.
I really dont think that by changing the lenguage Sales will go up and let me add,why would somebody change?

I had hopes of AppGameKit or DBPro becomming something like Godot,even if a very Basic one,providing tools for the user to quickly reach the goals,like Level Editor,shadergraph etc and instead of rewritting the lenguage and making a new product,just concentrate in a Rapid Development game engine.
I often look at GGMax Showcase on discord and what people are generating there is amazing and do attract my and surely others attention,even if not playable!

This i believe would have helped AppGameKit further,also yearly Paid updates to keep money flowing.
Once users are able to quickly make something beautiful,even if just static,Interest would have grown and so generating new users.

Again,i really dont believe changing lenguage or supporting some extra device would generate sales and it seems TGC also dont.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 30th Oct 2023 17:50
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Let me Add just one thing : It is very good for TGC to Freeze AGKS, till they really come up with a masterplan or Drop it alltogether.
The current situation was neither good for TGC or its community so i applaud TGC for taking a stand and letting us all know.

I just hope they look at other engines and realize why they suceeded, like game maker studio,one just have to look at their feature trailer and one would realize it very quickly.

Btw, more tools dosnt mean AGKS would cease to be a programming lenguage.
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Aidan
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Posted: 30th Oct 2023 18:14 Edited at: 30th Oct 2023 18:29
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That's a really good feedback - please be weary of your double consecutive entries.

But good all the same
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 31st Oct 2023 19:32 Edited at: 31st Oct 2023 19:59
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I really think AppGameKit S is one of the best languages out there and I don't see it disappearing any time soon. Nothing wrong with the language either.
If I wanted to use GODOT I would but I don't like it and I think AppGameKit S is better. When I started using AppGameKit classic I knew but a fraction of what I know now
and have learnt a great deal.
All this is because of AppGameKit and without it I would not have got this far. If I had to maybe I could find something else but I doubt I would enjoy it as much as this.
I have tried other languages in the last few years and AppGameKit beats them hands down. Nothing wrong with BASIC and there's c# and c++ and python varieties of AppGameKit .
Personally I like basic not because it is easy but it's what I grew up with and am familiar with although I am no expert by a long way but I seem to get the job done.
I intend to be using AppGameKit or maybe a new AppGameKit for a long time and I think it's really good and we do not need another language for the sake of it and what we have now
is excellent .
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Zappo
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The problem I see is that if AppGameKit Studio isn't updated at least once every sixth months or so, it will no longer be able to build apps to publish on Google Play or the App Store. That is why I use it and I suspect many others too. Without that ability I fear the userbase will drop dramatically.
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 1st Nov 2023 08:32
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It would be terrible if the AppGameKit S updates stopped when they have a very good product when some other languages are rubbish and you don't find whats wrong with them
until you are months into a project. AppGameKit S is not like that and has been tested from start to finish. Yeah the occasional bug but on the whole very good.
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agkcoder
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Posted: 1st Nov 2023 10:24 Edited at: 1st Nov 2023 10:26
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If you watch "GameGuru Live Broadcast - Loot Drops" go to 28:28 and listen what Lee's answer is to the question. He clearly states that the plan is to release bugfix/maintenance updates 4 times a year, and handling the AppGameKit community based development similarly to how they do it with GameGuru Classic. Also in the news section they state that more detailed info will come this year about AppGameKit Studio's future here on forum. Until then maintenance updates will continue.

GameGuru Live Broadcast - Loot Drops
[video=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykn5kwaWSh4]
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 1st Nov 2023 18:20 Edited at: 1st Nov 2023 18:44
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He said as long as is viable.
AGKS is a good product and it shouldnt become GODOT, my point was that if,like godot, would have those additional tools to quickly make something nice then maybe it would have a better chance.

The problem is AGKS isnt making money,i think that is by now clear to everybody,so maybe by adding more tools while staying focused on the programming side,could be a step in the right direction and give TGC room for Paid updates, as any advancement to a level editor,shadergraph and agkd itself would be worth a yearly paid update.
Looking at unity, GGMax should have been an addon to AGKS, FPS creator,just like in unity one have templates to create even without code.
Thats the road i find is the best one IMHO

But thats just wishful thinking from me,but worth voicing it out.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2023 08:06 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2023 08:09
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I know that Lee said in the video that they are planning 4 updates a year but this has been the case for quite a while now. The reality is in the last 10 months we have had one update for Studio to address the API 33 issue and one update for Classic which is completely broken and will not be fixed for quite sometime. The update from TGC about the future of AppGameKit was welcome and I hope things improve soon. Making the source code available on GitHub would definitely be a good start as there are some really smart people in the community who may be able to fix the outstanding bugs and add new features and bring some life back into AGK. The only major development for me in the last 12 months has been the addition of the VSCode extension and I hope TGC continue to improve this or at least make the extension source available to the community.
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Raven
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2023 16:50
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From what I can tell they're simply officially acknowledging that AppGameKit is now in maintainable mode... which most of us have suspected for a while.

The announcement of "Community Updates" via the source on GitHub is identical to DBP and Game Guru Classic... which neither have particularly approachable source code bases.
For DBP to address even basic modernisation requires a near complete rewrite of the Compiler and Engine.
A recent (ish) update graciously done by the OG dev has made Synergy ( the community developed IDE that TGC adopted near EoL for DBP) means we have a completely usable IDE again in modern Windows... BUT that doesn't stop the fact that DBP need serious reengineering for modernisation that would take ALOT of time and effort that most of us who have the skills to do so, simply can't commit to without funding of some description to work full-time on such an endeavour.

AGK is likely to be the same... Where the time investment from those who /could/ is simply too high to really contribute and IF we're talking about things still having to go through TGC instead of an open branching license agreement (like GPL-3) ... well we'd be investing our time to fix/improve someone else's product who'll continue to make money from said labour while we would be doing it prorata.

I dunno, while I do appreciate open sourcing and think ALL product should eventually do it. How this appears to be handled seems a bit cheeky relying on the communities efforts and good will.

Like I dont want to sound like /that/ guy but it's how it comes across to me... When Thier financial situation would likely be resolved the same way other languages approach it.
That is working on a Tick-Tock release pattern.

AGK v1 end of support
AGK v2 long term support ( ie just compatibility fixes )
AGK v3 maintenance support ( ie supporting current API updates )
AGK v4 development ( ie next intended release )

If each stage was on a yearly basis... It'd mean a 36month required "new" version to support the latest / current hardware. And thus a regular income as active Devs need to buy the next release to maintain support even though fundamentally these would remain code compatible.

It that or a monthly/yearly sub, which is now the industry standard.

Supporting AppGameKit essentially got 12 years without any real need to purchase a newer version means that you will ALWAYS hit a limit on potential customers without constantly marketing and pushing for a bigger market... Even then you'll still hit a peak and the money will stop.

Doing this would maintain the core userbase, lead to potential expansion and overall growth allowing the team to expand and then comfortably work on multiple products at once.

But that's just my thoughts
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Aidan
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2023 17:24 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2023 19:59
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Thank you all and fully respect your vast imput here.

And I feel that's how it should be , on a subscription model, how would one survive for a life long purchase for a couple of pounds and with the steam discounts. I personally feel that it be a right step in the right direction.

Then they will have support financially to indeed work more on it.

I don't feel it's financially stable, that's why they left it be for a while to go onto other projects that does make them money.

Makes sense to me

I'm happy to pay a yearly sub as long as it's not too expensive and as long as they keep us going on AGK. I hate to see things dwindle into the midst due to lack of support. It be very upsetting knowing that it's been on the scene ever since I can remember

I think we should also remember,

how does AppGameKit work for you?
Done anything good with it?
Are you happy with it?
Does it do what you need it to do?
Have any of you had any success with your apps?
Even if that's just pittence or hundreds of downloads
Are you proud of your acheivements made with it?
Etc



Ok it's not made for massive world games for example. It will never be like unreal engine or perhaps unity..but does it do just the job for what you need AGk for?..

This will make us then decide whether it be a great investment investing in TGC to have continued support or new features.

Have to start thinking "in their shoes", would we do the same if we was a company trying to survive in the world?

Thanks everyone for your feedbacks so far

Edit


We've had a few users sending us questions about AppGameKit so thought it's time for an update on where it's at!

Right now, AppGameKit Classic and AppGameKit Studio are at a 'feature freeze' stage. Occasional updates will be released for AppGameKit Classic moving forward and AppGameKit Studio will soon be moving to a community-based development model, similarly to the way we moved GameGuru Classic to a community-based development model hosted on GitHub.

We are currently working on a new update for AppGameKit Classic to resolve the Android platform compatibility issue for Windows users and, following that, we will release more information about our plans for AppGameKit Studio.

Thank you for your patience and we will release more news on the AppGameKit forum before the end of the year.

_------------
Looking at their newsletter it looks like they have AI in the front of their minds for studio too

Please check your emails for newsletter updates

Take care all of you, catch up soon
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xCept
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Posted: 7th Nov 2023 20:31 Edited at: 7th Nov 2023 20:35
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AGK has felt like it has been at feature freeze for a very long time now, so it's at least nice to see confirmation of that.

The main concern most would have is how long it will sustain the various platforms, which as we've seen has fallen off many times with iOS and Android. Lee appears to confirm in his remarks that continued support for every platform is outside the scope of their planned quarterly maintenance fixes.

Quote: "We'll be looking to make sure that it's stable for as long as it's viable to do that. Because for all the time that we have these products, they sit on top of a platform. And that platform has a tendency to change over time... and Apple is rather aggressive in discontinuing older operating systems. So there will come a point in which that product is lost to those platforms because the development requirement to effectively rewrite large chunks of your underlying technology is beyond the scope of what we call a feature freeze."


With that, it becomes the responsibility of unknown community members and whatever arrangement of open sourcing AppGameKit may become to keep things current. And with the diminished userbase there is less incentive for the community to be too proactive at implementing changes on Github.

I was a day one AppGameKit user and watched all of its evolutions. Including the abrupt detour to the monthly subscription-based Freedom Engine that went nowhere (despite what must had been a tremendous amount of development time invested into making the web/cloud side of AGK). Years ago AppGameKit was already "community-sourced" to Github, but in a very limited and imposing way where only the Tier 2 side of things were accessible for development. This made it tedious to implement any changes with intent of using them for Tier 1, since that would fall on Paul or other TGC staff to actually implement. All of these years later and other than TGC's Preben and Paul there were only ever five external users who committed even 1 change. That entire Tier 2 repo kind of fell off too, with users questioning its status even 2 years ago and not getting a response but clearly it wasn't being actively synced with AppGameKit releases.

The pivot to AGK:Studio also felt like a lot of unnecessary development effort to create the new IDE from scratch and all that went along with it. I still prefer AGK2 Classic because it uses the easily customizable and open source Geany IDE. I created a really nice full-UI dark theme for it that still isn't as replicable in the Studio IDE (which also suffers from blurry text or other issues that just make it feel incomplete compared to the tried and trusted editors). I also didn't like the mandatory Steam integration with Studio, which makes it less controllable for installing, updating and portability. The other heavily promoted features exclusive to Studio including the various editor-like components just never seemed polished enough for extensive real world use, and some were hidden enough that even to an experienced user it was not clear where or how to access them or their purpose.

In the end I feel TGC jumped too quickly from iteration-to-iteration of AppGameKit and it really took a backseat when Lee shifted focus purely toward FPSC:R and Game Guru for the past decade. There were windows of opportunity where AppGameKit could've still shined as a viable development platform for those comfortable with coding but without needing to know any of the intricacies of C/C#, OOP etc. But there just were not enough staff resources on hand to keep it competitive and promoted enough to gain a wide audience. And yet other one-man game engines have come along and excelled, including Richard Davey's Phaser product that has continued receiving massive updates for 10 years now. That one is open sourced but Richard is still the main force behind the features.

To me AppGameKit is still the most enjoyable coding experience for rapidly creating both prototypes and finished apps. I love to use it even to draft up concepts to then port to other platforms, and for general desktop development and experiments. I'll keep an eye on it and hope it gets a second breath from going the community route, hopefully to a fuller extent than the first Tier-2 community effort did.
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