@Flashingblade
"Religion is based on FAITH not evidence."
Yes, exactly. If mouse would just admit his belief in a Creator was based on religon and not empirical evidence or rationality then this debate would be over. My contention is that, empirically and rationally, there is no way to conclude that evolution is false and Creationism is true.
If someone wants to believe these things becuase of their faith thats fine with me, just don't proclaim they are due to empirical evidence else I've got a bone to pick with you.
@Jeku
"I'm not religious, like I said waaaaaaay back, but I am a Christian."
o_O Okay.
"I've recapped all of your 7 pages of posts here, and don't get angry, but it seems like your job here is to find a flaw with just about every point we try to make."
No, my purpose was to argue evolution and creationism(the origin of the universe kind) kind of slipped in to the mix. When you argue with someone, you don't just ignore points whenever you feel like it. You address them. Or at least that is how I view debate. In my eyes, if you aren't addressing all of their points you are losing.
"Here's a question for YOU to be on the other side of the spectrum: What exactly do you believe?"
That the Big Bang is the beginning point of the Universe and that based on evidence and reason there is nothing else before it. Also, evolution is a reality.
"are you just playing devil's advocate or do you ponder what the meaning of life is?"
I'm not playing devil's advocate. That would suggest that I believe in Creationism but that I just get a kick out of arguing otherwise. I can assure I very much Do Not believe Creationism. As for pondering the meaning of life I came to the conclusion to that question along time ago. See below for details.
" What is your motivation for getting out of bed in the morning, if, when you die, you'll just be dust and that's it?"
I won't die for a long time. In the meantime, there are plenty of things to look forward to in life like say completing this compiler that I'm working on for BASIC4GL and starting my own on-line store.
I don't see how that lack of any Creator of the universe will make my life not worth living.
" Or do you believe in reincarnation? Probably not, because a higher being has to be in charge of that, huh?"
Reincarnation? No. No evidence. As for a higher power being in charge of that, not necessarily. Buddhists believe that reincarnation is simply a natural phenonmena and that there is no higher power(well certain sects do anyway. Others think otherwise) Oh wait. There I go again with that arguing thing.
" Or do you believe in some kind of interplanetary creator like an alien?"
I think you can guess the answer to that one.
" I'm grasping here, but what do you think your purpose in life is,"
And here is where the meaning of life bit comes in. The meaning of life is, or more specifically your life, is what you make it. There is no one ultimate goal that everyone must strive for. Meaning is a subjective thing. It can't be measured. It is not objective. Its really up to the person what their life will be like and I think that that is a beautiful thing.
"*other* than pretend that there're tremendous flaws in believing in a creator."
I don't pretend. I know.
"All this evolution-talk, could it not work side-by-side with creationism?"
Quote: "I don't know if that is addressed to me or not, but I've been using the word creationist to mean someone who doesn't believe in evolution and that the variation between the species was caused by God."
Your using the word Creationism differently then me. If you mean Creator-of-the-Universe Creationism then yes, several million Christians believe such a thing.
"(i.e. mouse or I post, then you try and rebute every last breath by going "sigh you just don't get it""
I don't say that mouse does.
Quote: "I've been correcting you for my last four posts and apparently still haven't gotten the point across."
Quote: "You still don't get it,"
Quote: "You're very confused... "
Quote: "Sigh. I'm afraid both you and the person who wrote that rather petty article really don't get it"
Quote: "Final proof you just don't get it."
Quote: "Neophte, gaaah, you still don't understand."
Quote: "Are you getting my point yet?"
Sound Familar? That's just in the last two pages.
"or "baseless evidence yadda yadda yadda"."
Baseless
claims.
"Let's see YOUR evidence for man's purpose. If there is no purpose for man, let's see YOUR evidence for where we came from, and why there are no examples (bones, fossils, whatever) of animals changing from one to another."
Purpose is a subjective thing and can't be "proven" in physical sense of the word. Purpose is "metaphysical". You can't have evidence for purpose because there is none. It doesn't reside in the physical world but rather the world of ideas. Its like trying to prove the color green is the best color. You can't.
I'd get into this more, but this post would just ramble on endlessly and there are other things I'd like to do.
As for the evidence, I've given it to you already. Over and Over and Over and Over. If you want it go back in my previous posts and look for it. Or better yet ask mouse. At least he bothers to read my links when I post them.
