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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Why I haven't purchased DBPro

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cyrano
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Posted: 7th Dec 2002 19:37
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Ok it's been said by others but the debgugger crashes my computer. I would love to have a working debugger, save me a lot of time and headache. But... I already own DB1 and don't see any reason to buy dbpro until the bugs are fixed.
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Mirthin
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Posted: 7th Dec 2002 20:54
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maybe it's your system. What's your spec?

Who wants cake? I've got a little slice of hell for everyone.
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Sentinel
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Posted: 7th Dec 2002 21:42
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I used to have problems quite a bit. Then I used Norton's SystemWorks and now I don't have any problems. It fixed my computer really nice. It's not always the program you're running that's causing problems.

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cyrano
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Posted: 7th Dec 2002 23:20
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I have the following:

ATHLON 1.3 gig
640 MB DRAM
64MB DDR GFORCE 2 TI

I have removed everything from my system tray and I'm not running any other programs. Everything else I works fine-including MS Visual C++, and all the other software I use.

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Necrym
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Posted: 8th Dec 2002 01:10
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Oh God! Another why i should i buy dbpro thread! Cant you people make up your own minds without making a statement.
Look its simple! DBP has a some bugs - yes! But so does every peice of development software ive ever used including the big name software products. Just buy the damn thing and learn it and all the bugs will iron themselves out if you report them in a responsible way to the creator.

Watch the bouncing cursor - now in 3d
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cyrano
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Posted: 8th Dec 2002 01:48
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Let's see.. I'm suppoesed to shell out another $70 to beta test DBpro, when I already have DB1 which is more stable. Sure, I would love the extra features, such as the debugger. But half the promised features don't work (for me at least), and the ones that do I can accomplish the same thing on DB1 with a little more code.

I'm not saying DBpro won't be a great product, but until they get the kinks worked out I'll save my hard earned cash thank you.

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Necrym
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Posted: 8th Dec 2002 05:53
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Fine then dont buy - who cares! Just dont make negative statemnts about a product until you at least own it. Half the features i want arnt available either but i know their coming and im experimenting with dbp in the meantime. If you want to wait till the final flawless version thats up to you but please dont make these useless forum threads they are a waste of space and in the end dont acheive anything. If you wish to air your greivance with a product then email DB im sure they want to try to make a great product and constructive viewpoints would be listened to.

Watch the bouncing cursor - now in 3d
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indi
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Posted: 8th Dec 2002 06:01
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the demo version might not be as upgraded in bug fixes as a later install from a full copy.

dont let us stop you from shooting yourself in the foot tho
with your assumptions on a demo as the final profuct.

why bother to tell us also in a condascending way.
Your opinion is biased and not scientifically based on clear assumptions.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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DMXtra
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Posted: 8th Dec 2002 12:32
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I have the full version of DBPro with patch 3.1
I have the following system....

Pentium 4 2 Ghz
512 Megs of DDR Ram
2 40 Gig hard drives
Sound Blaster Live Platinum
Geforce 3 with latest drivers 41.xx (As of Dec 8th, 2002)
Windows XP Professional (Fully updated with all patches current as of 12-08-2002)
Direct X 8.1

I have tried many different DBPro programs and I can't make the compiler crash at all. I have tried every option in the compiler and have had no problems at all.

So what is so different in what I am doing compared to what you are doing?

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
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cyrano
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Posted: 8th Dec 2002 16:42
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Necrym, are you some kind of self-appointed floor boss of this board? Do yourself a favor and stop telling people what they can post here.

My experience with DBpro demo has been anything but positive. Companies put out demos so that customers will want the full version. The demo is supposed to represent the product, if it doesn't then perhaps they need to release another demo that does.

Point is, why should someone trust the full version when the demo doesn't even work. For those not having problems, congratulations, wish I could say the same. However, I will keep posting my experiences, good or bad, and if anyone has a problem with that-tough.

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haggisman
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Posted: 8th Dec 2002 21:47
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But half the promised features don't work (for me at least), and the ones that do I can accomplish the same thing on DB1 with a little more code.

Please list all those commands that don't work, im sure you will be no-where near half, I don't what anybody says DB1 isn't that bad and is quite capable of reproducing some of the nice new DBpro feature but you would be kdding yourself if you could use them in a game.

Other than posting "The debugger doesn't work" you haven't posted anything useful. It works fine here, so why do you so quickly blame DBpro?

Specs:- 1GHZ athlon, Radeon8500, 192mb ram, winxp
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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Dec 2002 00:10
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cyrano, buy a new computer, until then, stop posting stupid threads about DBpro not working, ITS YOUR COMPUTER

xxxpetratxxx
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Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Dec 2002 00:30
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hmm, I have a feeling this might go flamebait

Whatever I did I didn't do it!
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DMXtra
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Posted: 9th Dec 2002 11:45
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I think it might be an Athlon bug in DBPro, because I am using a Pentium 4 and all the other folks that are having this issue of the compiler crashing all the time on them have an AMD Athlon.

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
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DMXtra
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Posted: 9th Dec 2002 11:48
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I will report this issue to lee and see what he can do about it.

Just so you know how to handle problems, you report them to lee@darkbasic.com so he can look into it.

I wish I was a moderator on this board. I would set up a bug forum and then delete all these posts and report the bugs to lee's email.

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
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Kale
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Posted: 9th Dec 2002 14:20
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i agree with cyrano the demo should correctly mirror the 'stability' of the most current retail version or else the DB team is shooting themselves in their collective feet.

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Ratty Rat
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Posted: 9th Dec 2002 14:28
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The debugger is far from the only reason to upgrade to DBPro, indeed I hardly use it, relying instead on my old favorite of writing out a debug file.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Dec 2002 22:33
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ive got ATHLON and i aint got no problems

xxxpetratxxx
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 10th Dec 2002 23:08
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cyrano: Please post your problems, make constructive criticism, you have the right to speak your mind, but PLEASE, we don't need posts saying "I'm not buying DBP because..." You wanna know something? I really don't care! If that's your attitude, I can't help you. Now if you come from another angle, list your problems, your specs and such right off the bat, without all the negative comments, I can help.
Necrym is exactly right, we don't need to waste space on this board with negative posts. Your feedback is appreciated, but keep it positive.

And before you ask, no, I am not a self appointed floor boss. I'm just trying to clean up these forums... it's called initiative, something many people sorely lack.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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heartbone
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Posted: 10th Dec 2002 23:34
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Athlon 1200 - No compiler crashes yet that couldn't be explained by my bad code.
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Wolfdog
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Posted: 11th Dec 2002 07:29
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I have an amd athlon xp 2800+ Ive had no compiler crashes either.

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MushroomHead
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Posted: 11th Dec 2002 11:47
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Eh? I have yet to come across bugs, the only one I came across was the incorrect scaling of 2d bitmaps but this was fixed ages ago. The language is pretty stable now and very usable, hopefully patch 4's new pipeline will remove the EXE's bloat size. FYI, my specs :-

AMD 1400 DDR
WinXP (+ SP1 + minor updates)
512 Megs of DDR Ram
40 Gig hard drives
Sound Blaster Live Player 5.1
Geforce 4 ti4400
Direct X 8.1

- Rav.
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Van B
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Posted: 11th Dec 2002 12:28
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I have an Athlon 1.1 - The debugger is not ideal on my machine, it reports a msgbox error every compile, but I blame my dodgy registry for that (keeps needing restored). A very useful file is the error report in the Temp dir in-beside DBPro, it tells you more about what went wrong than the messages (I even have a shortcut to it from my taskbar!). Does'nt like me calling non-esistant functions/arrays one bit though!.

I reckon all will be well if I format and reinstall, but I really can't be bothered, plus I'm managing as it is for the time being, probably wait until a couple more patches then reinstall everything.

At the end of the day, those who are giving it a chance will produce some really cool stuff with pro, those who prefer to complain will keep complaining and produce nothing. Few could argue that DBS have left us in the dark here, they're uploading patches all the time and are making a big deal of getting DBPro both faster and more stable. Is anyone here so important that they should'nt have to wait?


Van-B
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 11th Dec 2002 22:40
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Pro is for pros... not for everyone.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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Kale
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Posted: 13th Dec 2002 01:10
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i agree rapscaLLion! Pro should mean Pro!

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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indi
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Posted: 13th Dec 2002 04:55
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all good valid points.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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G Man X
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Posted: 13th Dec 2002 19:59
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Yup. I'm sitting here looking at a DLL error and No Go when I try to run the compiler. Am I kretching? Am I slagging the product or the authors? Nope. By the by I'll try a reinstall as suggested; I'll try the err msg against MSKB and reinstall DX8.1. I know just enough about Windows that I don't automatically point the finger in DB's direction. I could see from the demos in DB1 that it was quite capable of writing some very impressive stuff so I'll just keep on banging away until the problem is Fixed and then I'll have a little something to show y's all!

To sum it up:

Good The Boyz Have Done It Is!
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 14th Dec 2002 17:53
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Don't get mad but I semi agree with Cyrano. I said DON'T get mad! lol Firstly let me say I own DBPro and have Patch 3.1. I LOVE it find hardly any really annoying bugs (appart from the pipeline, which should be fixed soon) I would not even slightly consider going back to DB1 I adore Pro and have been telling every1 I meet who's got a PC to buy it!!!!

BUT - and this is a BIG but - I nearly didn't buy it. Why? Because I downloaded the demo, and it was completely unuasble. I have AMD800Mhz 512Mb 64MBGF2 WinXP. The compiler would crash when rendering even a primitive in certain sizes. Windows would crash if I changed resolution. Textures were ridiculously cropped and stretched. Midi files repeated from the wrong bars. BITMAP commands didn't work. Transparencies didn't work. X and 3ds files loaded incorrectly. NONE of my DB1 projects would open. The list probably goes on but at this point I gave up, uninstalled and sent a firm but fair email to DBTeam listing all the problems I had found, with screenshots and code snippets, stating that I would only buy a copy when it would work! - I never recieved a reply grrrr

It was only on a whim that I changed my mind and purchased Pro. I installed patch 3 and to my amazement it worked almost perfectly. I was well chuffed and still am. As I just said - its great!

The point is that most people considering buying a product will try the demo first to get a flavour of whether it is worth their hard earned cash. The DBPro demo stinks. DBTeam need to Patch it. Baaaad.

But to Cyrano I say - Buy it anyway! It does work, and it rocks!

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
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InSiDeR
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Posted: 16th Dec 2002 07:58
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Cyrano: If your not serious about games development then dont buy Pro, it wasnt made to be a weekend play thing, its a valid professional programming language. And if your not going to buy it then you obviously arent serious about games developemnt, THEREFORE, please dont annoy us with your pointless posts, which will only serve to decrease morale and incite more flame wars and doubt.

I never tried the demo, i never needed it, i pre-ordered my version of dbpro as with many others, you only have to see how DBv1 turned out to be assured how dbpro will. ITS THAT SIMPLE, anyone with half a brain could have figured that out.

AND another thing, for people who say that "oh it sux big time, i hate it" you saying you could do better?, look its quite simple, use what ever human initiative left in you and instead of whinning about how crap it is AND help fix it, you wont get half as much out of it if you dont

Rapscillion: nicely said mate

indi: dont let these forums go bust mate, keep it up

InSiDeR
Beta Test DBPlanet 2003 Now, Click Here
"...Yay i got one strap loose..."
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Benjamin
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Posted: 17th Dec 2002 01:26
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pro is not for pros!! its for delevoping professional looking games and apps

xxxpetratxxx
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Rob K
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Posted: 17th Dec 2002 17:07
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The trouble with DBS is that they are completely and utterly clueless about how to actually SELL their products. The demo seems to have quite a few problems that the real version does not.

This is strange because the engine is exactly the same, with just a few changes in the compiler as far as I know.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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InSiDeR
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Posted: 18th Dec 2002 19:39
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The trouble with DBS is that they are completely and utterly clueless about how to actually SELL their products


errr ooooooooo kkkkkkk
well they dont seem to be doign so bad now

DBDN for one is jsut another great way to as how they are hyping up DBPro

InSiDeR
Beta Test DBPlanet 2003 Now, Click Here
"...Yay i got one strap loose..."
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Rob K
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Posted: 18th Dec 2002 20:00
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*cough* Lousy demos *cough*

(Actually they are good for tech demos, but prospective buyers won't more. Blitz suffers from this as well, but to an even greater extent).

Still, lets change the topic (Play nice)

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Rob K
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Posted: 18th Dec 2002 20:01
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typo... that should be 'want'.

Why can't we edit posts in this forum! (cries)

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 18th Dec 2002 20:17
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Will change the subject after saying this: Great program, TERRIBLE demo, and no, they don't market it properly. Surely Fast-trak or whoever should be plowing money into this to light a fire up under its ass and show everyone how cool it is. Lots of ads in Games magazines, maybe TV coverage etc. If Joe public saw an advert, downloaded a DECENT WORKING demo with lots of impressive NOOB TUTORIALS, then he would realise how easy it is to get good results, and how proffessional results that you really work on can be, we could increase the user base 10 fold...

...but personally I prefer to remain one of an elite group, so people still think its clever when I show them a game I programmed I'm sure DBS would love the cash tho

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
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vivi
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Posted: 18th Dec 2002 23:06
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well all i can say is DARKBASIC PRO is proberly the greatest thing i have bought.......ever

[img]ss3.bmp[/img]
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Dec 2002 23:44
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oftenly crashes are caused by Operating Systems and incompatible drivers ... always make sure all of your drivers are fully upto date.

If the problem persists then email the DarkBasic Team with your system specs (incl. Drivers and OS Specs) as this will help them to figure out any incompatibilities that could possibly be caused by DarkBasic Professional itself

DarkBasic Standard, Enhanced or Professional, really non are going to perform outstanding without learning the language ... i mean there are some here you can perform just outstanding things programming wise, and its not just the language your learning but the underlining principals that govern all coding

Really if you don't purchase DarkBasic Pro then thats your choice, believe it or not DarkBasic Enhanced has got quite a lot of power behind it as well. Just not as powerful an engine.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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cyrano
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Posted: 19th Dec 2002 08:00
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I have decided to go ahead a buy DBpro. The demo has caused me some major troubles but from what I'm hearing about the full version it will hopefully work for me(besides the minor bugs).

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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Dec 2002 10:35
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Pro creations Pro things. Its for anyone :-P

xxxpetratxxx
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Rob K
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Posted: 19th Dec 2002 12:03
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I would just like to backup Raven's point about drivers. Particularly for NVidia card owners, you should always use the latest NVidia reference drivers.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 19th Dec 2002 12:28
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Indeed - and I always download them.

Anyway, the main problem I have DBPro is the lack of syntax checking and, to a somewhat greater extend, a lack of consistency - as pointed out the demo has problems which the the full program doesn't have (last time I looked the demo wasn't upgraded to patch 3.1; syntax hi-lighting doesn't work, to name a couple).

As for the lack of syntax checking, the following unfortunately compiles and runs :



I would like to see much better error reporting - this is needed for when more people start using multiple source files. I also hope more 3D formats will be support in this new patch.

I do like the plug-in SDK - I would like to see more structures/data exposed though...

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
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MrTAToad
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It should be noted that if anyone does try the my routine, it will almost crash your machine - so dont have anything important running.

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
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Rob K
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Posted: 19th Dec 2002 13:25
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Yes... that is pretty lame really.

What DB should do when it sees a FOR command is look for a rigid structure:

for variable = START to END step

so when it encounters FOR, a command class, it should error out.

@Lee Bamber

>> Please look at this!

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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MrTAToad
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yes - I have sent an e-mail about this awhile ago now. It does need to be fixed, because you can be running around for ages trying to find out why your program doesn't run - in my case I was trying to (and succeeding!) to create an integer variable called loop...

This whole area does need to be tightned considerably.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
Oh my, yes...
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 19th Dec 2002 15:08
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The driver thing is true. But still the Demo version I downloaded was awful, but once I bought and patched Pro, almost all problems were gone, without touching any drivers. Glad to hear Cyrano is gonna buy it, it should serve you well, now and especially in the near future

I agree with Raven. The Enhanced DB1 is still a damned powerful bit of kit. Had I not bought Pro I would still be using it, the enhancement pack blew me away at the time

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
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Rob K
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Posted: 19th Dec 2002 19:49
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"I agree with Raven. The Enhanced DB1 is still a damned powerful bit of kit. Had I not bought Pro I would still be using it, the enhancement pack blew me away at the time"

... and it made Blitz users pretty envious (Blitz didn't have DLL support in particular at the time). The only thing that annoys me is that they eventually got it for free - we had to pay for it (until I decided that was stupid and cracked the trial limit on the enhancements). I did buy DarkMATTER for the models in the end though.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Kangaroo2
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Yeah I didn't really want the models (lack of animations and variety), but wanted the enhancements - Never mind I bought it in a bargain pack anyways

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
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n3t3r453r
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Posted: 20th Dec 2002 14:25
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Kale >> rapscaLLIon >> That is my mind too!

I have demo cracked version of DBpro (only because the is no full Russian version yet - "coming soon" )

And such system:
P4 1.7 128 Rimm, geForce4 (MS-8886) 64Mb, WinXPpro

BUT THERE IS NO BUGS WITH DEBUGER!!! Though there are bugs with spraits and point object and gost object on and set object transparency and ...so on.
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