Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Holding off on buying DB Pro

Author
Message
Battlemagi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Sep 2002
Location:
Posted: 20th Sep 2002 01:41
Well I was really looking forward to this software, but after reading numerous reports of problems, I am going to hold off for 3-6 months until I see several patches come out, and people start hailing it as a great language.

/sigh

I had high hopes too
Battlemagi
Kale
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 20th Sep 2002 03:26
I think DBPro will be a great language, but you are right, after a few patches. The projects i want to code at the minute are out of the question in DBPro purely because many commands simply do not work, and i mean many!!! Its such a shame, im very dissapointed with DBPro at the minute but when it all finally does work it should be awesome.

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
----------------------------------------------------------------
AMD XP2100+, Geforce4Ti 4400, 512Mb DDR, Abit KX7.
las6
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 20th Sep 2002 09:40
well, you can wait few months till you buy it... Or you can buy it now and wait the few months while getting to used it.
I mean, if you are sure you will have the money then... it's you business... But if I would be you, I would buy it now so I wouldn't have to worry about it later.

Specs :: [1333Mhz : 256DDR : Geforce 2 Mx 64MB]
Tapewormz
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Sep 2002
Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 22nd Sep 2002 03:11
Heck, if I took that approach to buying an OS for my PC, I'd have held off on Windows 98 for 4 years.

Rodro
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Sep 2002
Location:
Posted: 22nd Sep 2002 04:28
Buy it now. There's a lot to learn. When "everything" gets fixed you'll be ready to rock & roll and not left behind.

Hey!! You talking to me?
Battlemagi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Sep 2002
Location:
Posted: 15th Oct 2002 19:54
I hear you, but after reading over 250 posts since the release of DB Pro, I am seeing nothing but additional heartache and problems with people. I am still holding off until I see these issues get fixed. Come on, you all are BETA TESTERS who are paying for doing DB's QA dirty work. Unless things change quickly, and I see a lot of fixes, I'm simply going to move to www.blitzbasic.com.

Battlemagi

Viktor
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Oct 2002
Location: Austria
Posted: 15th Oct 2002 23:30
@Battlemagi:
:lol: Check http://www.blitzbasic.com before you post such a tip. It looks like this product isn´t anymore. And believe me, also with this bugs, DBPro will be still much better than BB 3D will ever be. DBP grows much faster too. This language is very easy, and comparable to my favourite: Sinclair Basic.

Hotshot
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 02:59
[QUOTE]
@Battlemagi:
:lol: Check http://www.blitzbasic.com before you post such a tip. It looks like this product isn´t anymore. And believe me, also with this bugs, DBPro will be still much better than BB 3D will ever be. DBP grows much faster too. This language is very easy, and comparable to my favourite: Sinclair Basic.
[/QUOTE]

Look mate....What point of compare between those two? I do think it is pointless cos what I do know is that DBPro was be Rushing to bring relase sooner instead of taking time, where they could iron all the bugs out, bring out on this December and then u would see DBPRO USER Grow Faster than ever before...but No cos it was same last time where they all have bloody Bugs which stop me buying DBPRO! There must lots of peope who own Darkbasic and blitzbasic who are holding off on DBPRO....if arent for bloody Bugs then DBPRO could have be MASSIVE HIT! No wonder why Blitz people are laughing cos they taking time and making BlitzMAX trying to be perfect which is coming out next Year. The expection is very high for BlitzMAX. I dont want to cause flame here but I got my points as I have darkbasic and Blitzbasic. I'm already Holding off on DBPRO and Blitz3D cos I not impressed! So there u go!

Hotshot
------------------
I'm deaf and I'm from ENGLAND. My english is not bad, so please give me a break !

rapscaLLion
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 03:51
First off, people are hailing it as a great language.
Second, all you read about is bugs and heartache. Of course! People don't post things like "DB pro is so great, I accomplished this today" half as much as they post problems. These forums are used most by people who are having problems with DB/P etc.
Third: we all had great hopes. The excuse is that it was "a rushed release." DBS always has excuses, but it looks like they are trying to fix the problem.

Fourth: (I know I'm being harsh, forgive me)
I don't care. You are just wasting space in the forums, I couldn't care less what you think of DB, if all you are going to do is threaten to leave for BB3D.

Anyway, that's my two cents. (In Canadian Dollars)

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Get the DB Weekly Newsletter at www.dbwn.cjb.net
rapscaLLion
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 03:52
ah, I see that the topic has been designated as a "flaimbait".. how true.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Get the DB Weekly Newsletter at www.dbwn.cjb.net
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 08:58
????

BlitzBasic3D does still exist and has been heavily developed over the last few months (in fact the previously IDE based compiler has not been entirely shifted into a commandline program like DBP's)

what is a signature?
joshualimm
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: WA, Australia
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 12:58
B3D is fast. At times, it is even faster than DB and DBP(based on two computers). The exe filesize is especially small, and can even be compressed down to some 400kbs.

But it lacks commands. That means, if you want feature that is simply a one-line command in Db or DBP, you might have to write many, many lines of codes in B3D. But flexibility wise, b3D beats even DBP.

So it's your choice. Both has its cons and pros. But simplicity wise, DB is definitely much easier than B3D.

My 3 cents

Game resurrected Imagination and Creativity.
MiRRoRMaN
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 14:44
Blitz couldn't hold a candle back in the Amiga days to AMOS, and nowadays it can't hold a candle up to DarkBasic.

Blitz is highly overrated. IMHO so NOFI here.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.
Martyn Pittuck
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 14:50
Blitz is good but lacks in commands and useable featurs

For example: It has BSP functionality, but becasue of copyright laws and stuff users cannot make games in Blitz using BSP without asking for premission and paying for licencing. So pretty much useless to the ammeture games creator.

Blitz also lacks in support for the newbi. You cannot ask questions on the official forums without first buying the product.

In my view DBS have learned from the Blitz misstakes and made a better product with DBPro, which is just what they did to make Blitz 3D better than DBV1 in the first place.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Dante Labon
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 15:07
I think DBP works great. I have yet to hit a true "bug", but if i did, I'd just find a way around it. I'm also glad it was released when it was... mass exposure is the best way to bug hunt and fix them. I've been programming with DB since the start, and legit bug reports are how things get fixed, belive me guys, they will fix the bugs.
You're other options are C++... It'll only take 1 person 5 years to code a game...Or try DirectX, but good luck with the headeaches....Visual Basic is good if you want to make a simple Windows application, but NOT for a game....and Blitz is obsolete and not as easy to code. Keep up the fantastic work Lee, Rich and the rest of the team.

My thr...fou...
Let's make it an even nickel

Marvey
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 15:17
rggg again blitz in db forums when this gone stop ??
blitzers if blitz need more members i belive yes! try publicitie it in other area! maybe www.blitzaredeadandneedusers.com ??? rggg
DbPro Rulez!

MiRRoRMaN
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 15:41
Amen to that Marvey.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.
Shadow Robert
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 16:01
how the hell did this get [Flamebate] in red on it?
sorry if this has nothing to do with the actual topic, as i've seen DBpro and Blitz in the same topic and really... more sensible just to steer WELL clear!

Holy jumping mother of god NOOOO!!!...
joshualimm
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: WA, Australia
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 16:12
Blitz issues will not burst into flamewars if everyone do not over-react. DB and DBP are top-notch programs, but so is B3D.

ok, done saying that. As for buying DBP, it all ends up with what you need. If you need a simple yet powerful language, then DBP. But for flexibility and stability, B3D still beats DBP, this I dare say. Even DBP's long-promised speed boost wasn't quite as I expected,tbh. But then, as I said, each has their pros and cons. It's about what you need, and what you prefer:

load object "model.3ds",1

or

mymodel = loadobject("model.3ds")

peace.

Game resurrected Imagination and Creativity.
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 16:35
"how the hell did this get [Flamebate] in red on it?"

I marked this thread as flamebait because, essentially, that is what it has degenerated into and it's a warning for people who might not have read it yet. Typically I'd remove the thread but the points here (although age-old) are valid and no-one is getting offensive yet. When that happens "Mr. Deletey" comes out to play

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Martyn Pittuck
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 17:06
Hehe, Mr Deletey will stike soon....

Or so the force tells me.

Blitz is another language, who cares?
Do VB programmers flame C++ programmers, yes. Ok wrong example.

But we are all looking for the best/cheapest games creation tool. DB does it for us, Blitz does it for them.

Big Fat Period

Well this may/may not have been a cleaver idea...

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Ratty Rat
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Sep 2002
Location:
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 21:34
So let Battlemagi not buy it, in 3 months we`ll all be DBPro supercoders rolling out superb games, and he`ll be stuck trying to catch up.

Erm... having said that I have just spotted another bug, roll on release 2!
Kale
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 23:37
and he`ll be stuck trying to catch up...[i]

'cause of the bugs, im stuck now! [i]project on hold


What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AMD XP2100+, Geforce4Ti 4400, 512Mb DDR, Abit KX7, WinXP Pro
rapscaLLion
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 17th Oct 2002 01:39
...
I have nothing more too say
...
So I'm not saying anything
...

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Get the DB Weekly Newsletter at www.dbwn.cjb.net
JoJo
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location:
Posted: 17th Oct 2002 09:18
Were in the world do you guys get off saying Blitz is obsolete. Blitz is doing just fine and doing very well.

DMXtra
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 17th Oct 2002 13:40
I have used both DBPro and Blitz 3D. I bought Blitz 3D from the first day it was available online and installed all the patches. I am also a beta tester on DBDN. Here is what I think (No flames please)...

Blitz 3D is great if you want to make games that have an old fashioned (ie. Glide like games for your voodoo card)
look. Its not really a 21st century language with all the latest technology that you paid $2000 dollars for with a new computer. However, they still can be fun.

Blitz 3D is also not as flexible in a lot of ways than DBPro. With DBPro, you can actually use DLL's (Blitz 3D DLL support is lacking bigtime and not really usable for the most part). You can also add to the language using user-defined plugins with DBPRO that you can't do with Blitz 3D.

My biggest reason for switching to DBPro from Blitz was that the support wasn't that great. They just now got the compiler seperated from the editor (shouldn't they have learned from DB Classic????). This is over a year since its been out and even classic DB which was written in 1999 had this feature later on.... Blitz 3D could have been something huge, but not much has been done with it and the author is creating Maplet which is a Map editor and wasting his time on that instead of adding real features that are needed.

Anyway, I could go on for a long time about this, but I don't want to start trouble.

DBPro is very exciting, there are a lot of cool things coming up. GUY is working on some projects which I don't think I can mention, but these are really going to be helpfull with DBPro (new features for the IDE and new tools that will be pretty cool and expand the abilities of DBPro.)

Lee is working on getting a patch loaded with all kinds of bug fixes. Its not going to fix every bug that is out there, but its the biggest bug fix to date and should fix almost all if not all of the problems people are having.

Mike has a new 3D core for DBPro that is going to make things easier to debug, more flexible for coding stuff like animating boned meshes in realtime, and much faster. In fact he is optimising code that I tried that went from 20 frames per second all the way to 220 frames per second. He isnt done either, he has a lot more to go.

Remember, DBPro was not optimised at all when it first came out and its only now that its getting some optimization.

Blitz 3D has been out for over a year, Blitz 2D for two years. Give DBPro six months to a year and you will see some amazing stuff. Heck, just give it until Christmas and you will see some amazing stuff.

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
Jonny_S
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 17th Oct 2002 15:39
nah im gettin it for x-mas DBPRO RULES

RED DEVIL PRODUCTIONS
mimesis
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Norway
Posted: 17th Oct 2002 16:02
I totally agree with Battlemagi.
Hold on on buying dbpro, its totally useless right now.
I'm furius to say the least, dbpro is a total ripoff!!!
It should be illegal to realese such buggy software like DBS have done. Probably dbpro will continue to be as buggy as db1.x was. Many of the db1.x commands were never fixed, even years after release. example: limb angle x()
We should defenitely consider to return the software to dbs and claim our money back, at least so does a lawyer friend of mine advice me to do. I'll bet they would listen then.
What about the upcoming patch2 then? Just wait and see, it will be the usual minor bug fixes, that aint helping us that much. What about mdl loading with animation ??? or bsp collision hit(). There is no mentioning about that in patch2 listing. Sorry dbs I've lost my patience and thrust.
MrTAToad
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 17th Oct 2002 16:52
I'm going to see what P#2 fixes before doing anything - I'm hoping it will fix more than that described elsewhere.

I, personally, would like to see ALL software made in/for this country to go through a vetting procedure (testing each and every program for a period of, say 3 months). This would be in addition to any software testing by the creaters of the program.
Successfully complete the 3 month test and the product gets a qualtity sticker of some sort. Fail and the software will have to be re-submitted or you can sell it without the sticker - the customer would then have a choice: either buy the software knowing its bugged or ignore it.

Yes, I really am THAT good...
haggisman
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 17th Oct 2002 19:05
Bassi, thats terrible to hear, I didn't realize Dbpro could make you loose your thrust, maybe you should consider viagraBASIC instead. It seems a lot of people are blaming DBS, when the people themselves did not TRY the software first before buying. I accepted any consequenses that may occur due to pre-ordering to get DBpro as soon as possible, If you can't handle problems you should have waited for a demo or other people's opinions. GET OVER IT.

Specs:- 1GHZ athlon, Radeon8500, 192mb ram
Martyn Pittuck
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 18th Oct 2002 11:55
Updates?

Computer Mag Reviews?

Published Games?

hehe

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Dynamo
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 18th Oct 2002 16:29
lol @ haggis


A cloud! I found out he's a cloud!
MiRRoRMaN
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 18th Oct 2002 19:45
Blitz isnt going no where. It's about as "easy" as simply using assembler.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.
haggisman
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 18th Oct 2002 22:37
mirrorman i hope you are being sarcastic, i don't remember blitz3d being anywhere near as easy as assembler, in fact writing computer punchcards manually is probably easier

Specs:- 1GHZ athlon, Radeon8500, 192mb ram
Mirthin
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Oct 2002
Location: Land of the Rising Haggis
Posted: 18th Oct 2002 23:01
I'm getting DBPro for christmas too. Sorry, but I'm an impoverished student and need money for my next cpu, which will be a middle-of-the-road model at a very affordable price. That's what you get when you don't buy in the UK. I haven't even glanced at blitz 'cause I don't care. I'm just glad I'm in a welcoming community of the best affordable programming language out there!
indi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 19th Oct 2002 12:04
I reckon regardless of any bugs, the longer u hold off the longer it will take to get to grips with the language.

If u cant identify bugs and dont like finding them and reporting them then dont.


It will take longer for those of us who are trying to find them, which in turn helps you, not that ppl who whinge also would post a big thankyou, its just not the norm.

The basic language isnt a hard language to identify problems now is it.


Complaining and trying to subvert sales due to a misguided opinion is hardly a healthy approach.

Problems exist when u dont deal with them straight away and let them fester until u are so far off center nothing makes sense.

I have 5000 lines in DBP and sure I cant code some things yet due to bugs but thats not stopping me.

Im sorry but the motive here is negative and not helpfull to the problems at hand to make this a better product.

What ever will u do when your game comes along and u cant find a bug in your own source?. Blame DB, Blame your tools? or actually do something about it.?

The mind boggles how some of you think.

http://www.lunarpixel.com/ is my new site
Myth
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 19th Oct 2002 12:26
I really don't think people that are complaining are trying to subvert sales. People have expectations about that things that they purchase, and if they are disappointed and express their thoughts here, it allows others who may have the same expectations something to consider before making a purchase.

It also lets that developers know that some users are not happy with the state of the product in it's current form. When my DBN membership ran out, DBP was still in beta, but I do recall that the developers stated that there would be thorough documentation released. That was may expectation.

I posted here in another thread that I felt that the documentation was not sufficient, even on the poor side. My purpose for posting was not to insult the developers, but make a point that this is an issue that needs to be dealt with.

Mirthin
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Oct 2002
Location: Land of the Rising Haggis
Posted: 19th Oct 2002 16:39
It all boils down to...

You can get it now and use it for what it's worth, and wait for the FREE patches.

Or you can leave it to get better and you'll be left out.

I don't see how this could cause a problem for anyone.
Milamber
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 19th Oct 2002 17:05
Complaining once is one thing. Turning every thread into a flamewar when patch 2 is less than a week away (I've heard) is something else. Get a grip and get some patience.

System Specs: AMD Athlon 1700+ XP, GA-7VRX motherboard, 128MB DDR RAM, GeForce2 MX400 64MB VRAM
MiRRoRMaN
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 20th Oct 2002 00:56
haggisman lol yeah I am being sarcastic. I tried Blitz on the Amiga once and hated it ever since. I was a big Amos fan so needless to say I love DarkBasic too.

I still need to learn a lot of DarkBasic but any idiot can see it's quite easy to learn once you get the hang of it. It makes coding fun, like its supposed to be.

Blitz makes coding hell. (unless your an alien.) Oh well, some people seem to like it so no offence to them. They did make Amiga worms in Blitz so nuff respect non the less.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.
ironhoof
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Sep 2002
Location:
Posted: 20th Oct 2002 04:21
Shoot, I bought DB pro I tried to compile several programs i made in DB on it and got errors with the goto labels "I fixed that by removing the colons" but then it started giving me errors with DO and LOOP and WHILE and WEND then it wont paste sprites... So i havnt touched DB pro since, not even since the first patch Im not dissapointed cause it will be fixed.. but as of now its extremely unpleasn't...
I like to work with the 2d stuff, and all the 2d stuff is highly buggy just yet, like if you paste your first sprite AND IT dose manage to paste it Scales it down anyway! even if you set the graphic resolutions for both inside the IDE nad in the program it still dose that. if you try to scale it up before it pastes.. the first paste will still be shrunken.

-----\
There was a man on the stairs that wasn't there.
He wasn't there agian today I think he's from the CIA.
PiratSS
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 20th Oct 2002 05:23
I don't want to get DBPro yet, I will wait till like v1.8 or something. I got the demo, I think there is just too many bugs

*Dual AMD Athlon 5200Mz *4,000 Mb Ram *240Gb 7200 Rpm (Dual 120+120) *ATI Radeon 9700 Pro *20' Flat Panel Monitor *Water Koolance Price: 500$Usa
Andy Igoe
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 20th Oct 2002 13:19
Oh god the unoficial BB team are here again trying to unermine the language.

Go play with your blitz, blitz the whole of london for all I care - just do it on your own forum.

Pneumatic of Xev@EQ
System Specs: 2Ghz; 512mb; 80gb; Tnt2; 17"/15" Dual Head; Video I/O; 2xPAL Video & 14" 25Hz Monitor
BotPC: 800Mhz; 512mb; 4gb; GeForce2; 17"
BlackHawk
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2002
Location:
Posted: 21st Oct 2002 02:28
Joe, how'd you get here? LOL

Anyway, Blitz is doing great. I should know; I have it. But I am also thinking of getting DBPro - if it's any good. And so far the downloads page on this site just shows the original demos. I'm hungry for some new material!!

Does anyone have any games and stuff that they have released in DBPro? I know this is probably too early to be asking such a question, but let's face it: The demos provided hardly push my system. With Blitz3D, I get ~30 FPS with 100,000 polys on screen at once. How would DBPro fare in comparison?

BlackHawk
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2002
Location:
Posted: 21st Oct 2002 02:30
Whoopsie. Ignore that please. I thought that there was only one page to this thread. Wrong. Damn. (I'm referring back to the end of the first page, if any of you actually care.)

DMXtra
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 21st Oct 2002 04:39
My recommendation is to buy DBPro. Here is why I think you should....

This is a bug fix patch that should fix about 90 percent of the problems. Maybe even 95 percent. Also as you see at the bottom that they are re-writing the DBPro code for 3D so that every mesh or file will be converted into the DBO file format internally. This is the way to go.


Patch 2
=======

GENERAL
-------
* Uninstall readme note added to START MENU shortcuts listing
* INC and DEC now work no matter what type of incremental value is given
* MEMBLOCK FLOAT now returns a correct float value
* INDIRECT(*) ASSIGNMENTS no longer cast in either direction to avoid confusion
* Fixed several bugs causing incorrect window handling between project settings and regular commands
* Patch1 caused certain array handling commands did not work such as ARRAY INSERT AT TOP. Now fixed.
* SET DISPLAY MODE can now use any size, and the engine will clip the size for ninstandard sizes
* Debugger can now handle variable string contents greater than 32 characters (ie Text Showcase)
* If file exist command was not given a valid string it would crash now fixed
* NOT replaced with uniary boolean and new bitwise symbol '..' added for NOT masking
* An expression in side a bracket set, in which is a string containing an open bracket no longer errors
* SET MUSIC VOLUME fixed for all types of music and better 0-100 scaling
* Fixed exception handling for XOBJECT using "/EHa" mode in release build
* SELECT command can now handle strings as comparison values
* #CONSTANTs no longer retain an effect when inside a comment
* The POINT command now returns a true 32bit value that does not include any Alpha component
* Comparisons using non Integer DWORD elements now compile correctly
* Trying to make a mesh from a memblock with old memblock data or corrupt data will gracefully fail
* Local Arrays now allocate correctly
* Functions can now return values even when passed back using an array element
* Functions can now accept a string as an input parameter, and recreate the instance to as not to mess the original
* A reverse FOR NEXT loop now counts through the correct values backwards
* Arrays can now accept a dynamic variable value during real-time creation
* When printing decimal values to the screen the exponent is no longer displayed
* When using arrays and typed arrays as input params the compiler crashes, now fixed
* Sometimes the LINE command would pick up the last used texture causing strange colors, now fixed
* Added proper support for DOUBLE FLOAT and DOUBLE INTEGER comparison maths
* DOUBLE FLOATS can now be displayed with as many digits as the value contains
* Parser no longer accepts numerics as LValue elements during an assignment
* Fixed a bug which stopped the music from looping when a hard goto loop and sync are used without a control loop
* Fixed a bug whereby DATA statement did not increment the internal line count causing errors to be reported incorrectly
* String arrays declared without a $ symbol now compiles and runs correctly
* FTP now allows soft failures of commands once again for failure to connect errors, etc
* Using an initial negative symbol before a variable causes it to reverse its sign
* Precedence of * and / reversed for correct mathematics
* Spaces now allowed inside brackets of a complex variable such as array or type

BASIC3D
-------
* Mipmap Generation Flag of SET TEXTURE MODE is now used for specifying mipmap filter mode
* POINT OBJECT now works again exactly the same as DBV1 for backward compatability
* Fixed the process of converting strip vertex data to regular triangle meshes, sphere convert bug
* Fixed a bug which continued to render pixels that where transparent, causing Z problems
* Fixed the way PLAY and LOOP OBJECT interact to work like DBV1 methods
* Fixed bug where an object load of an unknown extension will not result in a crash
* Fog mode in objects was set to false by default, now true to fall in with DBV1 compatability
* FREE FLIGHT ROTATION commands took radian values, now fixed to use degrees like DBV1
* MOVE OBJECT Commands now work properly for both rotation and free flight angles
* LOAD MESH now reports correctly if the load failed
* Very small meshes (<32 verts) when creating objects would cause internal corruption and crashing
* 3DS Models now load even if they are relatively specified by filename
* LIMB POSITION for limb zero now reports a true value even when glued to another object
* LOCKED OBJECTS now only render to the first camera (zero), and are ignored by all extra cameras
* Added better polygon collision detection to very small objects Vs very large objects
* GLUE OBJECT TO LIMB sometimes would validate a limb from the wrong object, now correct
* Fixed memory leaks in Basic3D and Image DLLs causing some exit crashes


MATRIX
------
* PREPARE MATRIX TEXTURE now handles texture alignment correctly
* Matrix no longer defaults to a ghosted state
* GHOST MATRIX commands now work correctly and addition mode parameter added for backwards compatibility
* SET MATRIX command now works in the same manner as SET OBJECT property states
* Removed a 0.03 error correction to texture tile crops to further increase accuracy of large matrix texture plates

SPRITES
-------
* Added missing SPRITE VISIBLE() command to Sprite Commands
* Fixed bug which failed to report true Sprite Angle value
* SET SPRITE PRIORITY now works properly, though slower than the optimised version that did not work
* GET EXIST, MIRROR and FLIP now report zero and one instead of an insanely high value

COLLISION
---------
* AUTOMATIC CAMERA COLLISION no longer sticks on some shapes
* Both AUTOMATIC COLLISION Commands now obeys the response mode of one for backtracking
* Fixed a bug where the box collision would not take the scale of the object into account
* OBJECT COLLISION CENTER XYZ now report a true collision center even for offcenter meshes
* OBJECT COLLISION with two specified objects now returns a one, not the secondary parameter
* Object Collision System for spheres now takes offcenter mesh objects into consideration
* Object collision that reports against any hit now returns the second object collided with, rather than one
* Adjusted polygon collision to take true account of the objects scales

CAMERA
------
* Added default green colour backdrop to non zero cameras to help rendering detection and use
* Fixed SET CAMERA TO OBJECT ORIENTATION so it works with all types of object rotation
* Added Runtime error to TEXTURE BACKDROP an SCROLL BACKDROP indicating obsolete status

TEXT
----
* Fixed bug where non zero background colours during a text paste would not update the foreground colour
* Fixed VAL to allow float values to be returned (ie val("123.45"))
* Fixed STR$() so it can return integer values greater than 5 digits without showing the exponent data

BSP
---
* Cleared notfound_texture_table in Q3 loader to fix origin of exception handler bug
* For level that use nonstandard texture sizes, the loader now adjusts to fill texture plates
* Fixed problem with BSP renderer not restoring render states for some levels
* Fixed response modes for CustomBSP levels
* Added PROCESS BSP COLLISION command
* CustomBSP level loading can now handle relative path filenames for texture location
* Added SET BSP COLLISION HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT command to provide head-adjustment for camera view
* Fixed ability in CustomBSP for geometry to respond to dynamic lighting effects
* a BSP rendered to a reflective object will now cull correctly showing a true reflection

IMAGE
-----
* Fixed a bug which caused the GET IMAGE to fail sometimes if a nonstandard texture size is used
* Fixed problem causing images taken using GET IMAGE would report an incorrect size
* GET IMAGE is no longer restricted to the size of the default screen
* Fixed resource bug that caused any images after a SET WINDOW ON command to crash on exit

MIGRATION NOTES NOT COVERED BY CURRENT FIXES
--------------------------------------------
* 3DS Handling is not as good as X Handling. Use the DBCONV.EXE converter available from us.
* All 3D MODELS not loading are to be handled through a new system we are working on
* All TERRAIN and BSP problems will be solved by the aforementioned new system
* Images in memblocks are now stored based on the display device used. If you are using a 32bit display then an image loaded or grabbed into the application which is then converted to a memblock will be stored so one pixel uses 32bits(4 bytes) of memory.
* Make sure that only the PK3 files required for the game are located in the project folder as the LOAD BSP command attempts to scan all PK3 files found in its vicinity, sometimes resulting in a media overload.
* When using GET IMAGE and LOAD IMAGE, DBPro now uses an entire texture surface for each image and may stretch the data
to make images naturally usable for textures. To avoid this stretch process to gain a DBV1 style pixel accuracy use an additional one as a parameter for each of these commands
* Be aware some of the flags in SET OBJECT and SET MATRIX have been adjusted to make more sense to a first time user
* In order to improve performance of tight loops, sync safety measures have been removed from GOTO. A tight GOTO loop with no sync will no longer respond to keyboard input and allow screen refresh unless specifically instructed
* XOR bitwise operator is now acheived using "~~", see Principalsperators for more information

LIMITATIONS OF USE
------------------
* You cannot pass User Defined Types in or out of functions
* The CLONE OBJECT will only close the mesh data of the object for mass construction of identical objects, and will not copy the settings, animation and frame hierarchy of the object
* FADE OBJECT uses the diffuse property of an object, thus COLOR OBJECT will overwrite the effect and vice versa

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
Battlemagi
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Sep 2002
Location:
Posted: 3rd Dec 2002 23:35
"So let Battlemagi not buy it, in 3 months we`ll all be DBPro supercoders rolling out superb games, and he`ll be stuck trying to catch up."

Thanks for all the flames on blitz guys. I have no idea how you all ran with this in that direction, but so be it. My orginal points are still valid. DBPro was released buggy as hell, and you all got to play beta testers and QA for it. Seems your happy with that, so more power to you. I am an original DB user and still play around with it.

However, I now use the http://www.lithtech.com engine with C++ and it blows away all of the crap BSP hacks going on here. So don't say I'll be "trying to catch up".

DBPro with patch 3.1 now warrents a second look, and I may now purchase it. When it first came out it wouldnt even run on my XP system. So don't flame me, I have valid points I presented. And also, don't flame BlitzBasic, as it's also a fine language. I truly hope DBPro continues to evolve and become a solid language. But, chill out with the flames guys, we're all developers here trying to make cool games and learn to code, right?

peace,
=Battlemagi

Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Dec 2002 00:38
Nobody ever said that Blitz3D was obsolete, I just have faith that one day DBP will actually be as good as or better than B3D. Oh and that reminds me... [Slaps Mike for that arrogant comment about B3D users "crawling back to DBP"]

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Dec 2002 00:41
"Mike has a new 3D core for DBPro that is going to make things easier to debug, more flexible for coding stuff like animating boned meshes in realtime, and much faster. In fact he is optimising code that I tried that went from 20 frames per second all the way to 220 frames per second. He isnt done either, he has a lot more to go."

Hang on... I take that last post back if this is the case. Can any other DBDN members verify this???

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
heartbone
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 4th Dec 2002 01:53
I would like to download a finished Blits program to see results from this product. I've seen polished programs written in DB like Atom Smasher available on major sites like Rocket Download. Does anyone know of any decent finished Blits Basic program?

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-05-17 06:33:43
Your offset time is: 2025-05-17 06:33:43